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The founder of wikipedia criticized the Hugo Chavez article for its lack of criticism
December 2, 2011 | me

Posted on 12/02/2011 3:04:05 PM PST by grundle

Jimbo Wales (the founder of wikipedia) criticized the Hugo Chavez article for not including criticism of Chavez's food policies. Some of the things that Jimbo criticized the article for including are the very same sources that I had added in the past, which the Chavez supporters then deleted.

My original account was Grundle2600. I was banned by User Rd232. He was one of the Chavez supporters who kept deleting that information.

Jimbo doesn't seem to know that this info has been repeatedly added and then deleted from the article.

The person who banned me from wikipedia was Rd232, one of the Chavez supporters who had kept deleting that information.

And now the very founder of wikipedia is upset that that information is not there!

Here's what Jimbo said about the Hugo Chavez article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez#Chavez_and_food

I am not going to have time to contribute substantially to this article, but I wanted to be clear about why I have said (up above) that this article is very very bad and a huge disappointment.

Let's just take one aspect of the world as it related to Chavez: food. Food for the Venezuelan people.

Reading the article, we see food mentioned exactly and only 4 times:

"Costing $113,000,000, Plan Bolívar 2000 involved 70,000 army officers going out into the streets of Venezuela where they would repair roads and hospitals, offer free medical care and vaccinations, and sell food at cheap prices." " The new constitution included increased protections for indigenous peoples and women, and established the rights of the public to education, housing, healthcare and food." "In 2010, Chávez supported the construction of 184 communes, housing thousands of families, with $23 million in government funding. The communes produce some of their own food, and are able to make decisions by popular assembly of what to do with government funds." In the section on human rights: "In the 1999 Venezuelan constitution, 116 of 300 articles were concerned with human rights; these included increased protections for indigenous peoples and women, and established the rights of the public to education, housing, healthcare, and food."

So everything we learn about Chavez and food from Wikipedia sounds positive and helpful to the poor. Twice we mention that the constitution gives rights to food. Once we hear that he had the military out selling food at cheap prices, wow, talk about swords into ploughshares! And we hear about his funding for communes that produce some of their own food.

What do we not hear?

Venezuelan shoppers face food shortages, BBC, January 10, 2006 "But nearly five years after the measures were implemented nationwide, farmers and agriculture experts say, Venezuela is not only far from self-sufficient in food, but also more dependent than ever on foreign countries. " Washington Post "Under state ownership, though, production has suffered. From 1999 to 2008, per capita, sugar cane was off by 8%, fruit declined by 25%, and beef production dropped by 38%, according to Carlos Machado, an expert in agriculture at the Institute of Higher Administrative Studies, a business school in Caracas. "The cooperatives have failed and our cattle ranching has been decimated," Machado says." A Food Fight for Hugo Chavez From 4 days ago: "“There’s still going to be speculation and shortages, and who will suffer the most? He who has the least..." Bloomberg News

The facts of reality are being systematically obscured here. A reader of this article would naturally be impressed with how Chavez appears to have been achieving a certain kind of socialist dream. That it is in fact, as evidence plainly in reliable sources, not quite so rosy, is something that we have kept carefully hidden.

This is just one issue, food, which I picked more or less randomly. The article is a disaster.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 17:44, 30 November 2011 (UTC)


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: chavez; foodpolicies; hugochavez; jimbowales; venezuela; wikipedia

1 posted on 12/02/2011 3:04:11 PM PST by grundle
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To: grundle

Jimmy Wales is being treated to the leftist Wiki bias we’ve all complained about for years.


2 posted on 12/02/2011 3:12:14 PM PST by MeganC (No way in Hell am I voting for Mitt Romney. Not now, not ever. Deal with it.)
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To: grundle
Oops! I had meant to say, "Jimbo criticized the article for not including."
3 posted on 12/02/2011 3:14:16 PM PST by grundle
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To: grundle

Well isn’t that sweet. He says the article is a disaster but he doesn’t have time to fix it. So it just stays a disaster?

Liberals. If they could think, they’d be conservatives.

[Or did he propose a secret fix not mentioned in the quoted section? If not, my comment stands. Why point out a problem, and then offer no plan for fixing it?]


4 posted on 12/02/2011 3:17:18 PM PST by Fantasywriter
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To: Fantasywriter

I hit the Wikipedia site often for leads and they are soliciting funds...............any intelligent opinions.


5 posted on 12/02/2011 3:26:15 PM PST by BilLies (ABCBSNBCNN, NYTimes, WaPOSt , etc., hates your Traditional American guts!)
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To: BilLies

Not one-hundred percent sure I understand your point. Could you kindly elaborate? Thanks.


6 posted on 12/02/2011 3:28:35 PM PST by Fantasywriter
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To: Fantasywriter

He offered suggestions. I’m glad he did what he did.


7 posted on 12/02/2011 3:29:32 PM PST by grundle
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To: grundle

Thanks for the info. I wonder what the revised article will look like? I hope the guy’s head explodes, who got you banned.


8 posted on 12/02/2011 3:34:33 PM PST by Fantasywriter
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To: grundle
He should have records of the edit history of the entry.

He should start by publishing that, and linking to it from Wikipedia entry on socialists, so people can see for themselves what they're about.

9 posted on 12/02/2011 3:35:01 PM PST by tacticalogic
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks grundle. JWTF did Jimbo think would happen? Wikipedia’s in a fundraiser right now, btw. I don’t see it here, but noticed it at work when I was looking up something really important.


10 posted on 12/02/2011 3:46:06 PM PST by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: grundle

How is it that one of the contributors had the power to zot you? That seems odd.

I actually am impressed that the founder decided to intervene.

It also is interesting how Wiki is supposed to be the pipple’s encyclopedia but it’s obviously really a dictatorship, with Jimbo presumably getting the last word if he so chooses. A nice example of “democratic centralism”.


11 posted on 12/02/2011 3:54:13 PM PST by Yardstick
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To: BilLies
...............any intelligent opinions.

I use the site a lot, too. But I wouldn't give them a cent until they can figure out how to reconcile the user-contribution model with politically-biased editors.

12 posted on 12/02/2011 3:55:52 PM PST by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: grundle

User Rd232 must be Sean Penn.


13 posted on 12/02/2011 4:14:24 PM PST by DFG (Proud Barbarian)
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To: grundle

bump


14 posted on 12/02/2011 4:17:58 PM PST by Tribune7 (Perry or Santorum (rickrolling))
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To: BilLies

They get an ear full from me every so often, but until they change their model away from hating conservative opinions, they will never see a cent from me.


15 posted on 12/02/2011 4:19:21 PM PST by LowOiL ("Abomination" sure sounds like "ObamaNation" to me.)
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To: grundle; All

Just for your info Rd232 is not me!


16 posted on 12/02/2011 4:19:36 PM PST by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: Fantasywriter

When I have a question of who, what, when I look up the question on Wikipedia for general background and also check the “discussion” page. They give me a quick explanation and some references.
If that is sufficient for the “facts” I need, I move on. Using Wikipedia for analysis is like using the NY Times data base of Time Magazine databases.

It is very complicated to describe because a lot of judgement is involved. I tried other online data bases but they are not as helpful for lining up raw data. Of course the Wikipedia write-ups are then compared to other individual sites. Hope this helps. I have began a file of examples of what I consider bias in the articles, particularly where the discussion page gives the comments short shift.


17 posted on 12/02/2011 4:58:27 PM PST by BilLies (ABCBSNBCNN, NYTimes, WaPOSt , etc., hates your Traditional American guts!)
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To: BilLies

Thanks for that explanation. I avoid wikipedia like the plague for anything political or liberal vs conservative. I use it for neutral things, though. It can be helpful if, as you said, ones judgement is involved.


18 posted on 12/02/2011 5:19:18 PM PST by Fantasywriter
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To: SunkenCiv

I think the fundraising thing only shows up if you have Javascript turned on.


19 posted on 12/02/2011 6:08:12 PM PST by grundle
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To: Yardstick
Some of the editors have administrative power, and the guy who banned me was one of them.

I doubt that Jimbo knew about my situation when he made his comments. I think he just read the article and noticed the absence of criticism.

20 posted on 12/02/2011 6:09:51 PM PST by grundle
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To: Red_Devil 232
Ha!

That is quite an interesting coincidence.

21 posted on 12/02/2011 6:11:14 PM PST by grundle
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To: grundle

Thank you for clarifying your experience with an essay on Wiki. Too bad. Wiki has wonderful potential and an amazing code. But everyone knows that it cannot be trusted.


22 posted on 12/02/2011 6:29:49 PM PST by Falconspeed ("Keep your fears to yourself, but share your courage with others." Robert Louis Stevenson (1850-94))
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To: grundle

Are we sure this isn’t an internet hoax? It’s not like there aren’t tons of liberal Wikipedia articles and few if any conservative ones.


23 posted on 12/02/2011 6:46:58 PM PST by scrabblehack
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To: BfloGuy

I was trying to figure that out too.

They are a Soros infested organization.


24 posted on 12/02/2011 10:00:59 PM PST by dervish (female candidates: the last frontier)
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To: grundle
Jimbo Wales (the founder of wikipedia) just reinserted my info back into the article!!!

This is what he added:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez&action=historysubmit&diff=464215115&oldid=464071566

Since 2003, Chavez has been setting strict price controls on food, and these price controls have been causing shortages and hoarding.[260] In January 2008, Chavez ordered the military to seize 750 tons of food that sellers were illegally trying to smuggle across the border to sell for higher prices than what was legal in Venezuela.[261] In February 2009, Chavez ordered the military to temporarily seize control of all the rice processing plants in the country and force them to produce at full capacity, which he claimed they had been avoiding in response to the price caps.[262] In May 2010, Chavez ordered the military to seize 120 tons of food from Empresas Polar.[263] In March 2009, Chavez set minimum production quotas for 12 basic foods that were subject to price controls, including white rice, cooking oil, coffee, sugar, powdered milk, cheese, and tomato sauce. Business leaders and food producers claimed that the government was forcing them to produce this food at a loss.[264] Chávez has nationalized many large farms. Chávez said of the farmland, "The land is not private. It is the property of the state." Some of the farmland that had been productive while under private ownership is now idle under government ownership, and some of the farm equipment sits gathering dust. As a result, food production has fallen substantially. One farmer, referring to the government officials overseeing the land redistribution, stated, "These people know nothing about agriculture."[265] Chávez has seized many supermarkets from their owners. Under government ownership, the shelves in these supermarkets are often empty.[266] In 2010, after the government nationalized the port at Puerto Cabello, more than 120,000 tons of food sat rotting at the port.[267] In May 2010, after price controls caused shortages of beef, at least 40 butchers were arrested, and some of them were held at a military base and later strip searched by police.[268]

25 posted on 12/05/2011 10:47:30 AM PST by grundle
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