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Rand Paul, Libertarian Extremist
National Review ^ | Andrew C. McCarthy

Posted on 12/03/2011 8:51:43 AM PST by ventanax5

The Tea Party’s limited-government, constitutional heart is in the right place. But it needs much better guidance about how the Constitution works in wartime.

The defense-authorization bill currently under congressional consideration contains some unremarkable, largely redundant provisions about the treatment of enemy combatants. Naturally, the now-familiar alliance of leftists and libertarian extremists — self-proclaimed “constitutionalists” all — attacked with their signature “sky is falling” equanimity. On Wednesday, my column addressed some of the more hysterical arguments posited by Fox News analyst Andrew Napolitano. The real action, however, was taking place on the Senate floor, where Tea Party favorite Rand Paul (R., Ky.) squared off against John McCain (R., Ariz.), leader of the Republican party’s transnational-progressive wing. Sen. McCain, along with another tranzy, Sen. Carl Levin (D., Mich.), sponsored the detention provisions — which are thus collectively known as the McCain-Levin amendment.

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: adamkokesh; libertarian; liebertarians; marklevin; military; nationalreview; nr; nro; paul; randpaul; teaparty
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1 posted on 12/03/2011 8:51:46 AM PST by ventanax5
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To: ventanax5

Andrew C. McCarthy, RINO pillow-biter from NRinO doesn’t like Rand Paul. Well, color me surprised.


2 posted on 12/03/2011 8:53:57 AM PST by perfect_rovian_storm (Perry's idea of border control: Use both hands to welcome the illegals right in.)
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To: ventanax5

Rand Paul Quote: The Democrats want to cut nothing. The Republicans want to cut next to nothing. Neither party understands the magnitude of the debt problem.

Sounds pretty extreme to me.


3 posted on 12/03/2011 8:56:55 AM PST by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: perfect_rovian_storm

sorry Andy— don’t namecall and label extremist people with
questions about the 5th Amendment to the Constitution.

Sure, you are an “expert” and we should all rely on you....

Sorry I don’t trust you Andy.

I don’t trust the feds to determine
who is an enemy combatant.

Korematsu v. US anyone???

Japanese-American citizens were interned by executive order.

Same diff.


4 posted on 12/03/2011 8:58:41 AM PST by preamble
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To: ventanax5

“Tea Party favorite Rand Paul (R., Ky.) squared off against John McCain (R., Ariz.), leader of the Republican party’s transnational-progressive wing.”

That alone makes Rand Paul sound pretty good. What’s happened to NR? It’s like it’s been taken over by Rockefeller Republicans.


5 posted on 12/03/2011 9:01:28 AM PST by ReformationFan
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To: ventanax5

“The quest to quell Islamists by democratic processes has only empowered them. It has done nothing to enhance our security against terrorism. It has wasted hundreds of billions of dollars during a time of economic strife. It has actually provoked our enemies, whose ideology — which partisans such as McCain urge us to ignore — calls for waging violent jihad against Western forces that try to implant Western principles in Islamic lands. It has enabled rabidly anti-American Islamists throughout the Middle East to market themselves as “moderate political parties” and bask in the legitimacy the “international community” confers on electoral success — no matter how fraudulently achieved. It has cheapened true Western democracy by accommodating it to authoritarian sharia.

Worst of all, the Islamic-democracy project has sapped the political will of the American people to take actions that are actually necessary to our defense.”

What a bunch of BS. al Qaeda is nearing collapse after just 10 years of American attacks. Even Pakistan is feeling the heat. The Islamists may be gaining ground as Arab nations feel the pressure to democratize, but isn’t that the what the liberals wanted? Isn’t that precisely the “nonviolent” segment of Islam that the liberals are so fond of? It has nothing to do with the war against violent Islam. And as far as the last point is concerned, I would say that it’s less the war that has sapped our will than it is the constant whining by the liberal establishment about the war. They need to be reminded that 911 would never have happened if they had done their job in the first place.


6 posted on 12/03/2011 9:01:37 AM PST by Brilliant
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To: ventanax5

I love the drive by comments from folks who clearly have not read the article yet. I find it very unusual to disagree with Rand Paul - but McCarthy clearly deconstructs Paul’s arguments and those of Napolitano.

So if you have the courage to put preconcieved notions of NRO and so on aside, this is a well thought out argument. To admit it is not to never support Rand Paul - simply to understand that not everyone who quotes parcels of the constitution is doing so in proper context - and that
libertarianism cannot work in this world unless every government is libertarian. Think about it!


7 posted on 12/03/2011 9:02:18 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Moderator of Florida Tea Party Convention Presidential Debate)
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To: ventanax5

Everyone should read Sen. Rand Paul’s budget at:
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=41227

Is he an extremist? Maybe - I don’t want to see the National Park Service sold off, for example, but is he directionally correct? You betcha. Agencies have grown like weeds, losing sight of their original purpose and becoming ends unto themselves. I am more Libertarian than Republican these days, simply because the government has become so large, over-reaching, and intrusive that restoring personal liberty has become Job #1 in my view.


8 posted on 12/03/2011 9:02:37 AM PST by bigbob
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To: ventanax5

NRO.....When did they go liberal? I was never a huge reader but I was aware of them and that they were on “our side.”


9 posted on 12/03/2011 9:03:05 AM PST by Grunthor (Pro-illegal alien "conservatives" piss me off.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

I don’t have to read the article.

The title is “Rand Paul, libertarian extremist.”

And in the first paragraph quoted he tars all Tea Party people with
—we don’t understand the Constitution applied in war time.

By his title, (NRO or Andy’s choice) Andy has lost the debate with me.

Why name call your opponent? Extremist??
I don’t think Rand Paul and Andy McCarthy
disagree on every issue. If that’s how you treat your friends in an argument
why don’t we treat Obama twice as badly?

Korematsu v US (1944).

Enough said.


10 posted on 12/03/2011 9:06:51 AM PST by preamble
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To: ReformationFan
It’s like it’s been taken over by Rockefeller Republicans.

Was there ever a time when National Review wasn't run by Rockefeller "establishment" Republicans? My mother-in-law gave me a year's subscription to NR about 5-6 years ago. By about the 4th issue it got to the point where I realized there was so much establishment drivel in it that it wasn't even readable. I cancelled the subscription shortly thereafter.

11 posted on 12/03/2011 9:08:26 AM PST by Thermalseeker (Wanna keep livin' with your momma? Vote for Obama. Tired of the pain? Vote CAIN!)
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To: Brilliant
'“The quest to quell Islamists by democratic processes has only empowered them."

I would say the author is "right on" here and sounding quite a bit like Ron Paul. Maybe you missed the Arab Spring? Google it and then reassess what the author is saying.

12 posted on 12/03/2011 9:09:12 AM PST by jpsb
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To: perfect_rovian_storm

They want to be able to do anything they want in a time of war. Rand is right. Follow the constitution. If we trust those in Washington after seeing how they mismanage our fiscal health then we are more the fools for it. This country has operated through the challenges of multiple wars without resorting to the blanket legislation our demonstratively incompetent leaders want now. FDR managed to put a sizable population of Asian Americans in internment camps without any evidence of malfeasance. The last thing we can say from history is that this kind of thing will not be abused. Everyone wants to stop terrorists and our enemies but the stupidity and the outrageous spending on stupid approaches isn’t catching terrorists its harassing passengers at airplane terminals especially the elderly and little kids.

The world isn’t going to end without these frameworks which allow the govt to be even less competent and not have to answer for it. Excuse me but I don’t trust them and they have given us all good reason not to.


13 posted on 12/03/2011 9:09:35 AM PST by Maelstorm (Better to keep your enemy in your sights than in your camp expecting him to guard your back.)
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To: ReformationFan
What’s happened to NR? It’s like it’s been taken over by Rockefeller Republicans.

It has always been that way. You are just now noticing it.

BTW: When I decided to not renew my subscription, they hounded me and threatened me in an attempt to make me re-up.

Seriously threatened me with going to a collection agency, even though I merely wanted to not renew.

I don't trust them at all.

14 posted on 12/03/2011 9:10:54 AM PST by Designer (Nit-pickin' and chagrinin')
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To: C. Edmund Wright

I have read the article (tried to do it by speed reading for once because it is so long) and I agree with you.


15 posted on 12/03/2011 9:12:16 AM PST by Stepan12
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To: ReformationFan

If you haven’t noticed there is an effort to return to the GOP status quo. They see the power within their grasp and are salivating to use/abuse it. The Democrat party is beyond redemption but the GOP establishment hasn’t been taken to the woodshed enough yet to get it through their thick skulls that we want constitutional governance and what the out of control spending to STOP.


16 posted on 12/03/2011 9:12:37 AM PST by Maelstorm (Better to keep your enemy in your sights than in your camp expecting him to guard your back.)
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To: Designer

Rand Paul is awesome. Best donation I ever made to a candidate.

He has all his fathers’ principles, but is better able to communicate them.


17 posted on 12/03/2011 9:13:14 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: preamble

The subtitle of article on NRO is :

McCain-Levin is constitutional, Mr. Paul

That’s exactly my point.
In Korematsu v. US (1944), executive order interning Japanese-American citizens born here WAS DECLARED CONSTITUTIONAL BY THE SUPREME COURT.

STILL ON THE BOOKS AS IT WERE


18 posted on 12/03/2011 9:13:19 AM PST by preamble
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To: C. Edmund Wright

So you are OK with the American military detaining and imprisoning US citizens indefinitely without due process? Wow.


19 posted on 12/03/2011 9:13:49 AM PST by jpsb
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To: jpsb

And in the USA at that!


20 posted on 12/03/2011 9:14:45 AM PST by jpsb
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To: Grunthor
"NRO.....When did they go liberal?"

They are neocons, like Weekly Standard. So they can sometimes sound like conservatives, and can deceive some people, but at their core, they are liberals.

Big government, foreign intervention, bi-partisan, more taxes, fiat money, world government, formerly democrat, neocons.

21 posted on 12/03/2011 9:18:14 AM PST by Designer (Nit-pickin' and chagrinin')
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To: jpsb

The police state freepers scare the living piss out of me no different than the DU obamabots.


22 posted on 12/03/2011 9:18:43 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: perfect_rovian_storm

We need more like Rand Paul and fewer like John McCain.


23 posted on 12/03/2011 9:20:25 AM PST by Jukeman
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To: GlockThe Vote

If you want to deal with Islamic terrorists waste and I mean really waste there home land like we did in WW2. Completely break their will to fight. This nation building, winning hearts and minds is a COMPLETE FAILURE.


24 posted on 12/03/2011 9:22:09 AM PST by jpsb
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To: ReformationFan

NR has been taken over by country club republicans. Dropped my NR subscription about six years ago.


25 posted on 12/03/2011 9:22:41 AM PST by Jukeman
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To: Designer
"Big government, foreign intervention, bi-partisan, more taxes, fiat money, world government, formerly democrat, neocons."

Perfect description, bravo.

26 posted on 12/03/2011 9:27:10 AM PST by jpsb
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To: ventanax5

“Republican party’s transnational-progressive wing.”

The fact that any such “transnational-progressive wing” is Visible enough for this guy to Name it, refutes the majority of his argument against Rand Paul right off the top.

When our side ignores the Constitution, in Any way shape or form, they just make it that much Easier for the Other side to advance Their Agenda without criticism.

I don’t care How well thought out his article is.

We can’t expect Lawful conduct from the other side if we Won’t play by the rules ourselves.


27 posted on 12/03/2011 9:28:06 AM PST by To-Whose-Benefit? (It is Error alone which needs the support of Government. The Truth can stand by itself.)
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To: jpsb
“The quest to quell Islamists by democratic processes has only empowered them."

Right on?

How very short-sighted of you...:)

Sometimes it's better to let the back-seat driver DRIVE...what is their excuse then?

It's about excuses, and being genuinely righteous in kicking their asses when attacked...currently we have neither argument, imho.
28 posted on 12/03/2011 9:28:27 AM PST by Khepri (Neocons must die. Long live the Republic!)
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To: Designer

Rand Paul’s speech on the floor of the Senate was epic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anjVgWNzQnk

Ron and Rand Paul need to be listened to. you police state freepers need to look in the damn mirror and ask why you want to give obama this power.


29 posted on 12/03/2011 9:28:35 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: Designer

Same thing happened to me.


30 posted on 12/03/2011 9:28:47 AM PST by Jukeman
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To: GlockThe Vote
The police state freepers scare the living piss out of me no different than the DU obamabots.

Me too. How ironic that people who support imprisoning American citizens indefinitely and without due process (blatantly violating the 5th, 6th, and 14th amendments) are members of a web community called "Free Republic".

31 posted on 12/03/2011 9:31:23 AM PST by EricT. (Is a country that would re-elect Baroke Hussein Owebama really worth saving?)
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To: To-Whose-Benefit?

As time goes on - seeing what I do - the more and more I am driven to the Ron/Rand Paul way of thinking.


32 posted on 12/03/2011 9:32:52 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: GlockThe Vote
I agree. Rand Paul is one Tea Party candidate that has not disappointed, unlike many others. For example, Renee Ellmers (NC-2) campaigned as a Tea Party conservative but immediately became a rubber stamp for Boehner, Cantor and McCarthy.
33 posted on 12/03/2011 9:33:49 AM PST by bwc2221
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To: EricT.

They are disgusting. Those people are fascists and liars.


34 posted on 12/03/2011 9:37:05 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: ventanax5

THe things that are tucked into the new defence bill should have many people upset.Did you know that if you have more than 7 days worth of food in your home you can now be deemed a terrorists?Just think of all of us canners who can now be arrested on a whim because we now can be defined as terrorists.I am very upset about this.


35 posted on 12/03/2011 9:37:20 AM PST by chris_bdba
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To: bwc2221

Watch this speech by Rand on the Senate Floor. Epic and Timeless

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anjVgWNzQnk


36 posted on 12/03/2011 9:38:53 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: EricT.

I found it unbelievable when Freepers supported the Patriot Act, so I am not at all surprised that locking up Americans indefinitely without due process simply because some Administration in D.C. calls them terrorists is OK with a lot of folks here. Were not leading Rats calling Tea Party members terrorists just a few short months ago? So I guess it’s OK to start locking up the leaders of the Tea Party huh?


37 posted on 12/03/2011 9:39:00 AM PST by jpsb
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To: C. Edmund Wright

There are still a couple of conservatives at NRO including Andrew McCarthy.

Comments here sound like the left wing approach making blanket statements without even reading the article.

I find people on both the right and left cheering for their candidate like a sports team, They cannot see their bias.


38 posted on 12/03/2011 9:39:45 AM PST by ventanax5
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To: ventanax5
But it needs much better guidance about how the Constitution works in wartime.

There's been a declaration of war?

Lemme guess, the never-ending commie-inspired "war on terror"? That is a not a war as war was meant by the Founders. They violate the spirit of the law.

I came back to FR to see if there was one story about the REPUBLICANS TRAITOROUS ACT supporting NDAA....nope. Why am I not surprised.

we've all been ropa-doped by Neo-cons...Phyllis Shlafly was right in trying to blow the whistle on these traitors all those years ago...(for background see Communist Goals 1963)
39 posted on 12/03/2011 9:40:52 AM PST by Khepri (Neocons must die. Long live the Republic!)
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To: chris_bdba
".Did you know that if you have more than 7 days worth of food in your home you can now be deemed a terrorists?"

I find that very hard to believe, got a link? thanks

40 posted on 12/03/2011 9:41:36 AM PST by jpsb
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To: jpsb

Those Freepers are not for freedom at all. They buy into the lies and propaganda of the govt like lemmings.


41 posted on 12/03/2011 9:41:45 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: Thermalseeker

I think in the beginning(1955) it wasn’t. There wouldn’t have been a need for it with Republican Henry Luce in charge of such major publications Time, Life, Fortune and Sports Illustrated.


42 posted on 12/03/2011 9:44:01 AM PST by ReformationFan
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To: ventanax5

Tell me what you disagree with Rand Paul on in this clip?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anjVgWNzQnk&feature=relmfu


43 posted on 12/03/2011 9:46:08 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: chris_bdba

you must favor Al Quada and blame america for 911 to not want the the govt to have this new power.

SARC!


44 posted on 12/03/2011 9:47:07 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: ventanax5
The article did have a few gems for those who had the patience to read it.

Nails McCain's ideology: "John McCain (R., Ariz.), leader of the Republican party’s transnational-progressive wing"

I'm going to quit calling him a RINO, now. "Trannyprogs" is a better name for him and the rest of the Wilsonian Dem faction of the party.

I found myself nodding in agreement here:

"The quest to quell Islamists by democratic processes has only empowered them. It has done nothing to enhance our security against terrorism. It has wasted hundreds of billions of dollars during a time of economic strife. It has actually provoked our enemies, whose ideology — which partisans such as McCain urge us to ignore — calls for waging violent jihad against Western forces that try to implant Western principles in Islamic lands.

It has enabled rabidly anti-American Islamists throughout the Middle East to market themselves as “moderate political parties” and bask in the legitimacy the “international community” confers on electoral success — no matter how fraudulently achieved. It has cheapened true Western democracy by accommodating it to authoritarian sharia."


He makes an excellent point, here. The rest of the world does not fall under the jurisdiction of the US Constitution. It is utter utopian folly, and flies directly in the face of the the actual concepts in the Constitution itself, to attempt to make it otherwise. "The United States Constitution is a compact between the American people and the government they created. It endows Americans with protections against U.S.-government overreach. It does not extend to the rest of the world.

There are, howver, problems with McCain-Levin. While the Constitution DOES NOT AND SHOULD NOT apply to anyone not a citizen of the United States, the Constitutional protections of US citizens whould be inviolate, even in time of war.
45 posted on 12/03/2011 9:48:24 AM PST by CowboyJay (Generic Republican - 2012. He's the only 'electable' candidate.)
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To: GlockThe Vote
It was mostly the bushbots, for the life of me I can not understand why any conservative or even conservative leaning person would support Bush 2. Bush 2 legacy is Obama and the (attempted) destruction of the Republic.

Even today look at the GOP candidates, only marginally better then Obama only Ron Paul or maybe Cain (big maybe there) offers any kind of real change in policy. All of the others are just more of the same. But go on to a Mitt or Newt or Perry thread is try to explain that, lol, fire and brimstone will ran down upon you.

46 posted on 12/03/2011 9:49:52 AM PST by jpsb
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To: jpsb

My ideal ticket is Paul / Bachmann


47 posted on 12/03/2011 9:51:52 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: GlockThe Vote

I want Sarah/West but Paul/whoever is acceptable.


48 posted on 12/03/2011 9:53:50 AM PST by jpsb
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The idea that American citizens captured in the USA could be held by the military and or for the military to operate withing our borders is Un American period.

OTOH i have no problem with foreign nationals being seized inside the US and being sent to GITMO and held indefinitely without a trial.


49 posted on 12/03/2011 9:56:33 AM PST by Leto
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To: jpsb

Paul/Bachmann are the only two I trust running for office.

The others are sleazebags. Santorum too. He pimped Santorum and is a complete NeoCon himself


50 posted on 12/03/2011 9:59:52 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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