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Newt: The Civil Warrior
American Thinker ^ | 12/3/2011 | Rosslyn Smith

Posted on 12/03/2011 10:22:20 AM PST by TBBT

Over the last couple of days, several well-regarded Republican pundits have taken it upon themselves to educate Republican primary voters about the many shortcomings of Newt Gingrich. As I read them, I was reminded of Abraham Lincoln's reaction to the series of military and political experts who warned him that Ulysses S. Grant was an overly ambitious, incompetent drunk. When these experts demanded Grant's removal after the then-unprecedented casualties at Battle of Shiloh in April 1862, Lincoln acknowledge Grant's shortcomings but responded, "I can't spare this man; he fights." Many of Grant's critics were enamored of George B. McClellan, a parade ground general who consistently overstated the strength of his Confederate opposition and who had long fancied himself the presidential frontrunner for 1864. The bottom line was that while McClellan considered himself the next Napoleon, it was apparent to Lincoln that it was Grant who actually had the rare 2 o'clock in the morning courage Napoleon himself so highly valued. In 1863, during Grant's siege of Vicksburg and amid his own growing unhappiness with the series of generals rotated through the leadership of the Army of the Potomac following McClellan's dismissal, Lincoln's reply to the incessant complaints of Grant's critics was even more pointed.

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: churchill; grant; lincoln; newt
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Grant.
1 posted on 12/03/2011 10:22:26 AM PST by TBBT
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To: TBBT

Over the last two years, I’ve had my fill of candidates being compared to other people. I wish folks would just give it a rest. Good grief!

A person rises and falls on their own merits, their own deeds or misdeeds.

While Newt probably isn’t being compared directly here, the comparison is nauseating.


2 posted on 12/03/2011 10:27:44 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Romney, Newt, any chance whatsoever you might sometime pander to U.S. Citizens vs the illegals?)
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To: DoughtyOne

Agreed.


3 posted on 12/03/2011 10:29:20 AM PST by cripplecreek (Stand with courage or shut up and do as you're told.)
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To: TBBT

So Newt is the new Grant? Seriously?

He will throw conservatives under the bus at the first opportunity that suits him. That said, so will Romney. At this point we will end up with one of them.


4 posted on 12/03/2011 10:30:24 AM PST by Soothesayer9
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To: TBBT
As with Lincoln's dismissal of the critics' scorn over Grant's purported taste for whiskey, Newt's supporters are already aware of his overweening ego, his willingness to offer sound bites off the top of his head, and his tendency to embrace ideas for the sheer novelty factor rather than soundness.

Newt also knows how to 'get the job done' when necessary...that's good. Would love to see him debate Obama and his teleprompter... That said, he needs to beef up on his conservatism - maybe chat with Palin...

5 posted on 12/03/2011 10:31:52 AM PST by GOPJ (Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, Than a fatted calf with hatred - Proverbs 15)
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To: Soothesayer9

Just a loose analogy...

Don’t blow a gasket....


6 posted on 12/03/2011 10:31:59 AM PST by TBBT
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To: DoughtyOne

Amnesty
Global warning
Individual mandate in obamacare
“Radical rightwing social engineering”, “era of reagan is over”
Fairness doctrine
Gun grabbing bills

Otherwise conservative /s


7 posted on 12/03/2011 10:32:13 AM PST by heiss (heartless and inhumane)
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To: TBBT

Newt: The Liberal Cause Sympathizer.


8 posted on 12/03/2011 10:33:16 AM PST by CSI007
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To: DoughtyOne
While Newt probably isn’t being compared directly here, the comparison is nauseating.

You miss the point - it's about following conventional "wisdom" and listening to naysayers just because they can cite some negatives. It blinds one to the positives. Newtt isn't my first choice, but it gets old hearing all the "uber-informed" reacting to every bit of drivel that comes down the pike.

9 posted on 12/03/2011 10:37:12 AM PST by trebb ("If a man will not work, he should not eat" From 2 Thes 3)
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To: TBBT
George B. McClellan, a parade ground general

I love that phrasing.

10 posted on 12/03/2011 10:37:37 AM PST by tbpiper
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To: Soothesayer9

He could certainly stand to read Washington’s Rules of Civility.


11 posted on 12/03/2011 10:39:37 AM PST by cripplecreek (Stand with courage or shut up and do as you're told.)
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To: TBBT
…Pegs the old BS meter hard right. Since the newt, in his own ego laden words, claims he is a transformational individual and has no equals. I think several dictators have claimed the same thing.
12 posted on 12/03/2011 10:40:04 AM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Newt, Willard, Perry and his fellow supporters)
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To: DoughtyOne

If anyone should be compared to Grant it should be Cain. Cain is a consistent winner in everything he did. Even Grant couldn’t say that. The only thing Newt “Lets make a deal.” Gingrich is 100% competent at is feathering his own nest.


13 posted on 12/03/2011 10:44:10 AM PST by meatloaf (I've had it with recycling politicians in any way shape or form. Toss 'em out!)
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To: heiss

Looks like you’ve done what I should have. Good work. Over time I have watched Newt screw up more times than I can count. Each time I thought to myself, as a Constitutional scholar the guy comes off great. In the real world he comes off looking like a squirrel.

Too bad, but it’s true...


14 posted on 12/03/2011 10:49:39 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Romney, Newt, any chance whatsoever you might sometime pander to U.S. Citizens vs the illegals?)
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To: TBBT

Like Churchill “Newt is a fighter of rare courage, and they value his consistent focus on American exceptionalism ...”

Newt even looks like Churchill. Both were historians and scholars. Both effective communicators and debaters in parliament/congress as for the general public. The bombastic Churchill, for a long time written off, was the perfect leader for his time, just as Newt may be ideal for ours.

Newt is like Grant only in that critics were proven wrong about making him general. He was a great general despite short comings. But, Grant is considered to have been a poor President. Let’s hope the analogy between Newt and Grant doesn’t go too far.


15 posted on 12/03/2011 10:57:27 AM PST by garjog
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To: Soothesayer9
So Newt is the new Grant? Seriously?

Maybe she's trying to tell us that Newt drinks.

Reagan had a way of making people feel that he was on our side and we were on his side.

Sorry, Newtonians, but Newt has a way of alienating people, of making us feel that his fight isn't quite our fight and our fight isn't his.

16 posted on 12/03/2011 10:57:46 AM PST by x
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To: trebb
Trebb, I didn't miss the point, but that's okay.

What are folks supposed to do, when a guy like Newt sticks his head up the Whack a Mole device, and starts delivering excellent message?

Yes Newt, we all know that you're a Constitutional scholar. We know that you can debate. We just wonder why all that doesn't translate to you coming down on the right side of issues, over and over and over again.

Then someone laments the fact that a lot of folks know Newt for what he is, and they pull Grant out of the history books to rehab Newt.

It's disrespectful of Grant to use his memory in this manner, and it's preposterous to infer that Newt will turn out to be a figure like Grant. No, he won't.

Newt has proven over and over again what he will be. He will be Newt, a guy whose head is not glued on squarely. He screws up over and over again.

While he does understand the Constitution in retrospect, he has no clue how to incorporate those tenets into his every day life. Retrospect fine..., day to day horrible.

17 posted on 12/03/2011 10:58:15 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Romney, Newt, any chance whatsoever you might sometime pander to U.S. Citizens vs the illegals?)
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To: TBBT
As I read them, I was reminded of Abraham Lincoln's reaction to the series of military and political experts ...

Careful, mention of Lincoln may call forth the undead zombie John Wilkes Booth brigade ...

It's only a matter of time ...

18 posted on 12/03/2011 11:01:05 AM PST by x
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To: meatloaf

I appreciate the mention, and don’t disagree on point, but after watching another candidate compared to a list of people as long as my arm this last year, I can’t sign on to these endless comparisons even for my own guy.

Cain is a good man. You and I both know, we don’t have to compare him to others. The other candidates should be compared to him, and if that causes folks to see the value in him that I do, they will support him.

Hope you understand.


19 posted on 12/03/2011 11:01:58 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Romney, Newt, any chance whatsoever you might sometime pander to U.S. Citizens vs the illegals?)
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To: CSI007; All
Neut is an internationalist, /One World Government supporter. It is his vision for America.

God help America in this time of distress and deception and delusion, in Jesus name, amen.

20 posted on 12/03/2011 11:03:27 AM PST by geologist (The only answer to the troubles of this life is Jesus. A decision we all must make.)
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To: DoughtyOne
Over the last two years, I’ve had my fill of candidates being compared to other people. I wish folks would just give it a rest. Good grief! A person rises and falls on their own merits, their own deeds or misdeeds.

If we don't know/remember history, we have to constantly reinvent to wheel. Then we never get up to speed...

21 posted on 12/03/2011 11:04:51 AM PST by maine-iac7 (A prudent man foreseeth the evil,... but the simple pass on, and are punished. Prov 23:3 KJV)
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To: TBBT

I’d love to have General Grant back in charge.

Regardless of his faults, he knew his enemy, and “he fights”.


22 posted on 12/03/2011 11:08:07 AM PST by bigbob
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To: GOPJ
- maybe chat with Palin...

I suspicion he will be tapping into her expertise - maybe Energy SEc? "Drill Here, Drill Now": & "Drill, Baby, Drill."

And he has mentioned Col West for VP - (and Col. West is receptive) can't get much more conservative than that.

That's my dream ticket - there' wouldn't be many demRats left, by election day, to vote. Their heads will have long ago exploded.


23 posted on 12/03/2011 11:20:13 AM PST by maine-iac7 (A prudent man foreseeth the evil,... but the simple pass on, and are punished. Prov 23:3 KJV)
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To: Soothesayer9
He will throw conservatives under the bus at the first opportunity that suits him. That said, so will Romney. At this point we will end up with one of them.

So if you've grasped that reality - isn't it time to get on board and start pulling the wagon from the right end?

"He has the right to criticize, who has the heart to help" Lincoln

24 posted on 12/03/2011 11:24:19 AM PST by maine-iac7 (A prudent man foreseeth the evil,... but the simple pass on, and are punished. Prov 23:3 KJV)
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To: maine-iac7

In this day and age, the remember or repeat admonition is a solid one. I agree with it.

When it comes to people whose actions we can easily document, we can’t just ignore what they have done, when they want to be given more authority.

Newt has shot himself in the foot too many times. Remembering the lessons of Grant don’t erase that. That’s all I’m saying.

If Newt were to become president and sign on to the global warming nonsense, wouldn’t it be bad? That’s one example.

I wish it weren’t so, but Newt’s actions are not nearly as sound as his debating points.


25 posted on 12/03/2011 11:24:33 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Romney, Newt, any chance whatsoever you might sometime pander to U.S. Citizens vs the illegals?)
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To: cripplecreek; All
He could certainly stand to read Washington’s Rules of Civility.

That's rich, considering he's been the only civil one on the campaign trail.

I have a suggestion. Might you consider either posting valid criticisms, rather than just shoot randomly, or wake up and smell reality.

Barring something unforeseen, we will get either mittens or Newt.

Pick your man and spend your powder supporting him and put your bile in a basket.

We've got some serious enemies to fight.

26 posted on 12/03/2011 11:33:49 AM PST by maine-iac7 (A prudent man foreseeth the evil,... but the simple pass on, and are punished. Prov 23:3 KJV)
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To: meatloaf
If anyone should be compared to Grant it should be Cain

But Cain isn't running.

Time to wake up and smell reality.

27 posted on 12/03/2011 11:36:27 AM PST by maine-iac7 (A prudent man foreseeth the evil,... but the simple pass on, and are punished. Prov 23:3 KJV)
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To: DoughtyOne
Cain is a good man. You and I both know, we don’t have to compare him to others. The other candidates should be compared to him, and if that causes folks to see the value in him that I do, they will support him.

But CAin isn't running.

Not keeping very good track of 'your guy."

28 posted on 12/03/2011 11:41:39 AM PST by maine-iac7 (A prudent man foreseeth the evil,... but the simple pass on, and are punished. Prov 23:3 KJV)
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To: Soothesayer9

It will probably be Newt, much better than Romney IMHO though ANY Republican is better than Barry.


29 posted on 12/03/2011 11:43:51 AM PST by Mike Darancette (Either Obama can beat any GOP candidate or no GOP candidate.)
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To: maine-iac7

Aren’t we discussing comments made when he was?


30 posted on 12/03/2011 11:47:29 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Romney, Newt, any chance whatsoever you might sometime pander to U.S. Citizens vs the illegals?)
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To: geologist; All

<you say: “Neut is an internationalist, /One World Government supporter. It is his vision for America.”

Misinformed information or deliberate? (BTW, are you deliberately misspelling his name in a (failed) attempted to be funny?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVD_R2WQOVw

Name me ONE other candidate that even KNOWS what Agenda 21 is, let alone has a plan to protect us from it.

Oh, and remember, Newt also didn’t go to Harvard or Yale or other Ivy Lagues and major in One World Gov’t: 101


31 posted on 12/03/2011 11:47:29 AM PST by maine-iac7 (A prudent man foreseeth the evil,... but the simple pass on, and are punished. Prov 23:3 KJV)
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To: Soothesayer9

Grant was a reported Drunk! Great General though!


32 posted on 12/03/2011 11:52:47 AM PST by tallyhoe
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To: DoughtyOne; All

You say: “If Newt were to become president and sign on to the global warming nonsense, wouldn’t it be bad?”

What is bad - and sad - to me, is people who rely almost wholly on media misinformation and denRat talking points for their information. You might - ? - enjoy this and then tell us how he’s going to sign on to GW?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7VUg7nG3lw&feature=related

“Newt Rips Gore’s ‘Facts’ To Pieces “

Note that this testimony was in 2009


33 posted on 12/03/2011 11:54:19 AM PST by maine-iac7 (A prudent man foreseeth the evil,... but the simple pass on, and are punished. Prov 23:3 KJV)
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To: TBBT

Boring angry badger.


34 posted on 12/03/2011 11:55:26 AM PST by Lady on the Lake
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To: TBBT

Now that Herman Cain has gone the way of Sarah Palin, I am left with Gingrich(untrustworthy a**hole), Perry(makes Bush sound like Clinton), Santorum(Eddie Haskell), and Bachmann(lying nutso)

Someone give me someone to VOTE FOR!


35 posted on 12/03/2011 11:56:31 AM PST by Grunthor (Pro-illegal alien "conservatives" piss me off.)
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To: CSI007

Newt will give me at least most of what I want.

A conservative congress will ensure that is all he can give me.


36 posted on 12/03/2011 11:57:44 AM PST by VanDeKoik (1 million in stimulus dollars paid for this tagline!)
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To: DoughtyOne

You said it, D1!


37 posted on 12/03/2011 12:00:37 PM PST by La Enchiladita (Newt says amnesty isn't amnesty.)
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To: maine-iac7
accidental misspelling. Newt says what sounds good ... he does. But when it comes to voting he often votes otherwise/ the opposite of his rhetoric.

Too bad he is a socialist. He is very smart and a good speaker... all meant to disguise what he believes is good for Newt. He really is a narcissist.

38 posted on 12/03/2011 12:00:37 PM PST by geologist (The only answer to the troubles of this life is Jesus. A decision we all must make.)
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To: Grunthor

Vote for Obama. Or you could stop listening to the MSM and GOP establishment.


39 posted on 12/03/2011 12:01:37 PM PST by Peter from Rutland
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To: maine-iac7

Yes, and then he turns right around and participates in that global warming nonsense with Nancy Pelosi.

Which Newt are you supporting? Doesn’t matter, because the other Newt comes with the package.

Are you in favor of amnesty? Are you in favor of Newt saying he agrees with parts of Obamacare?

No thanks.


40 posted on 12/03/2011 12:02:29 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Romney, Newt, any chance whatsoever you might sometime pander to U.S. Citizens vs the illegals?)
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To: cripplecreek

Thanks. I appreciate it.


41 posted on 12/03/2011 12:04:19 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Romney, Newt, any chance whatsoever you might sometime pander to U.S. Citizens vs the illegals?)
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To: Soothesayer9

Here’s the catch. Romney can throw the conservatives under the bus because they haven’t supported him at all during the primary—and everyone knows it. So when he’s President he can run left and say everyone knew I was really a lefty.

Newt on the other hand will have to deal with the backlash of losing his soft support from conservatives. Right now Newt is the safer bet.

The one thing Romney has over Newt though is that he’s actually ran something before. Newt did a good job recapturing the Congress for REPUBLICANS (not necessarily conservatives though).

Too bad Bachman didn’t live up to her potential. But who knows things may swing back around to her if she can speak in motivational sense and not get sucked into the press tricks. That’s the one reason I like Newt he appears to now be able to talk over the press and get his point across without getting stuck in their games.


42 posted on 12/03/2011 12:05:51 PM PST by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: GOPJ
Would love to see him debate Obama and his teleprompter...

Oh yah, some debate. Newt will end up agreeing with Bambi on nearly everything; he quivers in the presence of mighty liberals.

43 posted on 12/03/2011 12:11:35 PM PST by La Enchiladita (Newt says amnesty isn't amnesty.)
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To: TBBT

The folks at Club for Growth have white papers on all the GOP candidates summarizing their public records and does a pretty objective job. Looking at Newt’s I really was struck by how conservative Newt’s actual voting record was (which of course was mischaracterized by Jennifer Rubin, who I think must have been offered a post in a Romney administration. How else do you explain her going full spittle in support of Romney and anti-Newt?)., with most of the worrisome aspects of his record coming from speeches AFTER he left public office. This is pretty much the exact opposite of Romney, who has a very questionable record from his limited time in elected office, with most of his conservatism coming from campaign speeches. Anyway, let’s look at Newt’s actual record:

Voted YES on the Reagan tax cut of 1981
Voted YES on the Reagan tax reform bill of 1986
Voted NO on the George H.W. Bush “Read My Lips” tax hike in 1990.
Voted NO on the Clinton tax hike in 1993.
Voted YES on the capital gains tax cut in 1997.
Voted NO on the Chrysler bailout in 1979
Voted YES on the Gramm-Rudman balanced budget bill in 1985
Voted YES on a balanced budget amendment (as part of the “Contract for America” effort that he led) in 1995
Led the effort and voted YES to cut $16.4 billion from the budget in 1995.
Voted YES on welfare reform in 1996

I also decided to look myself at how much federal spending increased while Gingrich was Speaker of the House (1995-1999). By my calculations, Federal spending rose an average of 3.1% a year while he was speaker. When you compare it to the Presidential terms from Reagan on, this is the lowest rate of spending growth over the last 30 years. Under Reagan, spending grew an average of 7.6% a year. Under George H.W. Bush, 6.7%. Under Clinton, 3.3% (it would have been much more if he got his single payor health care plan through, also he was restrained by Newt later). Under W., it as 6.6% and under Obama, a whopping 8.6% a year. Also, under Newt, Federal spending as a % of GDP fell from 21% to 18.5%, a whopping decline in 4 short years.

Is his record perfect? Nope. Not even close. But the point is that on the big issues, he voted Conservative and helped champion balanced budgets and tax reform. Focusing on that actual voting record really makes me more comfortable with him. Especially when his main opponent is someone whose main accomplishment is a massive government healthcare program.


FReeper familyop posted this...
“Gingrich is a politician, and he’s been running for office for a long time. He’s been trying to appeal to as many voters as possible—even muddleheaded TV watchers. A politician’s voting record is the only way to see the truth about him.”

I will vote for Newt if he is the nominee!


44 posted on 12/03/2011 12:12:33 PM PST by Bobalu (even Jesus knew the poor would always be with us)
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To: maine-iac7

You’re right. The reality is that Obozo’s chances of a second term just went up.


45 posted on 12/03/2011 12:14:55 PM PST by meatloaf (I've had it with recycling politicians in any way shape or form. Toss 'em out!)
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To: for-q-clinton

You just gave me the best reason I have seen for voting for Gingrich.


46 posted on 12/03/2011 12:32:11 PM PST by Grunthor (Pro-illegal alien "conservatives" piss me off.)
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To: Mike Darancette

I think Newt will lose by about 1% greater margin than Romney will lose by.


47 posted on 12/03/2011 12:40:52 PM PST by cripplecreek (Stand with courage or shut up and do as you're told.)
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To: Peter from Rutland

Vote for Obama. Or you could stop listening to the MSM and GOP establishment.


I don’t understand your post. I would never vote for Obama and my opinions of the candidates that I mentioned are my own, not of the msm or the gop establishment.


48 posted on 12/03/2011 1:10:44 PM PST by Grunthor (Pro-illegal alien "conservatives" piss me off.)
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To: TBBT; Soothesayer9

[Don’t blow a gasket....]

Something tells me he will anyway.......


49 posted on 12/03/2011 1:14:36 PM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (If you come to a fork in the road, take it........)
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To: heiss

We had a strong conservative promising a strong conservative agenda and delivering. The conservative Gingrich Republican Revolution of the 1990s was a continuance of the conservative Reagan Revolution started in the 1980s. Newt was an integral part of the first and the author of the second. I would challenge the Newt-haters who insist that Gingrich is some sort of liberal to name the 3rd most important conservative political figure in modern American politics. You can’t. It’s because Reagan is #1, Gingrich is #2, and everyone else is so far back everyone else is essentially tied for last.

Has Newt Gingrich said and done some less-than-conservative things, both privately and publicly? Absolutely. So did Ronald Reagan, by which we all measure a politician’s conservatism. Reagan brought us Sandra Day O’Connor, amnesty, and some other mis-steps, but the good things that he has done so far outweigh his mistakes that we revere him today. Do you Newt-haters also hate Reagan? If not, why not? Because of Reagan’s overall record? The one that Newt helped make possible? How is Newt’s overall record any less conservative than Reagan’s? It’s not. Again, the 90’s Republican Revolution was getting the 80’s Reagan Revolution back on track after having been derailed by Bush I and Clinton.


50 posted on 12/03/2011 1:16:55 PM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (If you come to a fork in the road, take it........)
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