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Eight Reasons Public School Teachers Are NOT Underpaid
Real Clear Markets ^ | 12/07/2011 | Andrew Biggs

Posted on 12/07/2011 7:00:50 AM PST by SeekAndFind

It's one thing to claim that nameless, faceless government bureaucrats are overpaid. It's quite another to argue, as Jason Richwine of the Heritage Foundation and I recently have, that public school teachers are overpaid by more than 50 percent. This is real money, costing state and local governments over $100 billion annually. Our study generated significant, sometimes hysterical, pushback. But our conclusions still stand, and deliver important lessons regarding education financing and reform.

The claim that teachers are underpaid rests on a single isolated fact: that on average, public school teachers receive salaries about 19 percent less than private sector workers with bachelor's or master's degrees. But it's really not that simple. Here are eight reasons why.

1. All bachelor's degrees aren't the same. No one's surprised when a physics or finance major earns more than the person who studied medieval poetry, even if both graduate from the same college. Likewise, Education is widely held to be a less rigorous course of study, attracting below-average students but awarding the highest average GPAs of any college major. Easy grading both discourages hard work and makes it tough for schools to separate the good prospective teachers from the not-so-good ones. Prospective teachers enter college with SAT scores around the 40th percentile - meaning that about 60 percent of test-takers received higher scores - so it shouldn't be surprising if teachers' salaries after graduation salaries are around the 40th percentile as well.

2. That master's degree may not be worth much either. Many teachers have master's degrees but, as the Center for Educator Compensation Reform summarized the research, "The preponderance of evidence suggests that teachers who have completed graduate degrees are not significantly more effective at increasing student learning than those with no more than a bachelor's degree."

(Excerpt) Read more at realclearmarkets.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: biggovernment; homeschooling; indoctrinators; pay; publicschool; publicschools; teachers; thinktankparasite; unions
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1 posted on 12/07/2011 7:00:56 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

This is such a huge story and needs to be shouted from the mountain tops. Thanks for posting.

There is simply no industry in our nation that has so obviously failed and yet remains so incredibly sacred in the minds of so many.


2 posted on 12/07/2011 7:05:14 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Moderator of Florida Tea Party Convention Presidential Debate)
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To: SeekAndFind

8 months work,no weekends, uncountable number of holidays and tenure...overpaid for sure!


3 posted on 12/07/2011 7:06:44 AM PST by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: Don Corleone
It also varies greatly by area. Our school district (SW Pennsylvania) has about 300 qualified applicants for every vacancy. The Carolinas and Georgia have less than three.

Average salary in our district is about $58K per year. For the Carolinas and Georgia it is about in the mid 30's.

Pennsylvania colleges and universities graduate (surprise!) about a 30% surplus of newly minted education majors. Many of them end up working in (double surprise!) the Carolinas, Georgia, Virginia and West Virginia.

Our local district hires some of these U-Turners-- they've gone south and obtained some actual experience, so they tend to stand out amoung the 300 or so qualified applicants for every vacancy.

4 posted on 12/07/2011 7:17:51 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Don Corleone

you can see what your local teachers get paid as it is public record and trust me I looked up many of them around here and they get paid damn well.

50 grand is the average for them down here and that is good money down here and especially as they are only working so long in a year etc


5 posted on 12/07/2011 7:18:31 AM PST by manc (Marriage is between one man and one woman.Trolls get a life, I HATE OUR BIAS LIBERAL MEDIA.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Personally, I find the administrations at schools to be a bigger obstacle than the teachers. The district I live in has 5 elementary schools, two middle schools and one high school. I don't know what the total enrollment is, but it services and area of around 35,000 people.

The superintendent gets paid a couple hundred thousand a year to basically run the district into the ground. Their idea for improving schools is to have a full time curriculum staff that is constantly changing the coursework. Every time you turn around they are replacing core academics with more multi-cultural, self esteem based "learning."

Until we get these districts to get back to the basics they will continue to fail their students. How does it help a kid's self esteem when he can't make change at McDonald's without having the register tell him what to do?

There is a reason they call them elementary schools.

6 posted on 12/07/2011 7:24:43 AM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: SeekAndFind
All bachelor's degrees aren't the same. No one's surprised when a physics or finance major earns more than the person who studied medieval poetry, even if both graduate from the same college

When I was in school I had a buddy who was not cutting it and he was told by his academic advisor that he had two choices. Flunk out and go home or switch majors and get and Education degree. The school of education was chock full of the academic rejects from the rest of the university.

7 posted on 12/07/2011 7:27:02 AM PST by pgkdan ("Make what Americans buy, Buy what Americans make, and sell it to the world" Perry 2012)
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To: pgkdan
get and Education degree

and should be an

8 posted on 12/07/2011 7:27:50 AM PST by pgkdan ("Make what Americans buy, Buy what Americans make, and sell it to the world" Perry 2012)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

This is a huge subject, impossible to cover in one post, but I would be more than happy to pay the good teachers twice what they’re making.

Teachers are soooo constrained by cultural marxist bean-counter BUREAUCRATS and administrators, it’s a wonder they maintain their sanity.

I get it, I really do about “the industry”...

I’m suggesting conservatives should focus on the ADMINISTRATORS AND FACELESS BUREAUCRATS.

NOT teachers.

It’s a win win.
- PR value: conservatives avoid the “mean-spirited” meme.

- it strikes against the REAL PROBLEM...those who have used the industry to set themselves up for comfort. They don’t actually do anything, except enforce their stupid “directives” etc. FIRE THE LOT OF THEM!


9 posted on 12/07/2011 7:34:18 AM PST by spankalib (The Marx-in-the-Parks crowd is a basement skunkworks operation of the AFL-CIO)
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To: pgkdan

Teachers do so well “teaching”. I was Christmas shopping yesterday and my bill came to $56 and some change. I gave the young girl $60 and the change and she got so confused she couldn’t figure out what to do. She picked up a bunch of fives from the cash drawer and started counting out the cash to give to me. I stopped her and told her what my change should be even though it was on the register—she was so flustered I felt sorry for her. Yeah teachers do a wonderful job—at sex ed.

Unless she gets her act together JCPenny’s will lose a lot of money this Christmas season in the junior dept-the crooks will be swarming like sharks.


10 posted on 12/07/2011 7:35:43 AM PST by notaliberal
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To: pgkdan

RE: Flunk out and go home or switch majors and get and Education degree.

Just curious, what did your buddy do?


11 posted on 12/07/2011 7:35:52 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: Don Corleone

Teachers sign a contract every year for X amount of dollars. They can take that amount over 12 months thereby getting paid when school is closed during the summer, or, they can take it over the 10 months that school is in session having a higher monthly pay but they do not get any money during the summer when school is closed. They do not get paid a years salary for just 8 or 10 months work.


12 posted on 12/07/2011 7:36:35 AM PST by SkyDancer ("If You Want To Learn To Love Better, You Should Start With A Friend Who You Hate")
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To: spankalib

It is a huge subject, but by free market reality principles, teachers are over paid for one simple reason: there are a lot of folks who can do it and a lot who are willing to do it for far less. You could staff a huge percentage of the work force with business people and other professionals who would love to teach part time probably gratus. I know I would and the kids would learn more about business in one lecture of mine than they do now K-12.

And I know plenty of other professionals as well who would.

The problem is we have invented a “profession” where one was not needed.
Teaching is really imparting life experiences, and the adults in our society with the least “real life” experiences are our “teaching professionals.”

We home school our kids. We have made a ton of mistakes and we do it in a couple hours a day, and all our kids are minimum three years ahead of grade level and usually much more.

It ain’t that hard, but we’ve made it hard.


13 posted on 12/07/2011 7:41:53 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Moderator of Florida Tea Party Convention Presidential Debate)
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To: SeekAndFind

bump for great justice


14 posted on 12/07/2011 7:47:09 AM PST by pogo101
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To: SkyDancer

The entire argument about how long a teacher works each year isn’t very relevant to overall argument of teacher worth, IMHO. I know that it gets trotted out during almost every debate and it just peeves any person that teaches.


15 posted on 12/07/2011 7:57:01 AM PST by Tallguy
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To: SeekAndFind
Many states and school districts do not require teachers to demonstratre competency in the areas they teach.

One notible area where that is not true is vocational education. In our state a voc ed teacher needs at least three thousand hours in their field to be considered for certification. In my case I also had a BS in electronics engineering and 9 years in the USAF as well as 12 years in aerospace experience.

The highest compliment I could received was "You're not like my other teachers".

The DoD has an excellent program, Warriors to Teachers, that receives little support through the districts that I am familiar with.

16 posted on 12/07/2011 7:59:21 AM PST by pfflier
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Exactly right. Teaching is not a profession. Professions are self-regulating — like doctors (AMA) and Lawyers (Bar Associations). Teachers belong to unions in most places and collectively bargain for wages and benefits. Their behavior is regulated by administrators appointed above them. It’s more akin to a skilled trade.


17 posted on 12/07/2011 8:00:30 AM PST by Tallguy
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To: SeekAndFind

If pay was ‘results-oriented’; teachers would be paid the rough equivalent of a teen-age babysitter.


18 posted on 12/07/2011 8:02:34 AM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright
There is simply no industry in our nation that has so obviously failed and yet remains so incredibly sacred in the minds of so many.

That says it all.

19 posted on 12/07/2011 8:04:08 AM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I think teaching is a talent that can’t be learned in college. That means teaching effectiveness can’t be improved greatly with degrees, particularly advanced degrees.

Everyone has encountered some PhDers who can’t communicate basic ideas.


20 posted on 12/07/2011 8:05:34 AM PST by AlmaKing
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To: Tallguy

I don’t teach but some of my friends do. They explain their frustrations over how they’re perceived. They’re just as much victims of the systems as the kids. Any wrong move they’re fired. It gets deeper but many of them are just plain frustrated. They’re between a rock and a hard place.


21 posted on 12/07/2011 8:05:37 AM PST by SkyDancer ("If You Want To Learn To Love Better, You Should Start With A Friend Who You Hate")
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To: pfflier
One notable area where that is not true is vocational education. In our state a voc ed teacher needs at least three thousand hours in their field to be considered for certification. In my case I also had a BS in electronics engineering and 9 years in the USAF as well as 12 years in aerospace experience.

Bump that! Recruit people with ACTUAL SKILLS to impart same to our children.

22 posted on 12/07/2011 8:09:53 AM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: who knows what evil?

>> If pay was ‘results-oriented’; teachers would be paid the rough equivalent of a teen-age babysitter. >>

And the irony is, if we went to a full choice school system, then that would be the equivalent of “free agency” for teachers - which would be a boon to the good ones.

But who fights that tooth and nail? The teachers’ own unions. That’s proof right there that as a group, they are economically ignorant.

(as are the pupils they teach as well...)


23 posted on 12/07/2011 8:10:26 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Moderator of Florida Tea Party Convention Presidential Debate)
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To: SkyDancer
They’re between a rock and a hard place

Sure, but that's just like in Philly when everyone complains about corruption, scams, crime but elect the SAME people into office time after time.

Until the teachers do something about it (other than preaching from the red book and organizing the next generations of serfs) they are the problem.

24 posted on 12/07/2011 8:11:22 AM PST by NativeSon
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To: SkyDancer

They experience frustration; I see business opportunity.


25 posted on 12/07/2011 8:11:22 AM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: SeekAndFind

He switched majors.


26 posted on 12/07/2011 8:16:23 AM PST by pgkdan ("Make what Americans buy, Buy what Americans make, and sell it to the world" Perry 2012)
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To: SkyDancer
They’re just as much victims of the systems as the kids.

Very true. My wife retired after 30 years of teaching last year. It had gotten to the point the school board backs the parents the majority of the time and teachers just need to suck it up and deal with it.

The pay was OK but not exorbitant and her retirement is less than 50% of what she was earning. I don't consider that out of line with private industry.

But what the heck, it's easier to paint with a broad brush and declare all teachers are overpaid and underworked.

27 posted on 12/07/2011 8:22:39 AM PST by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: spankalib

where do you think administrators come from?
They are former teachers.

They are asked to manage an unmanageable bunch without the power of rewarding excellence, or firing poor teachers.

Teachers unions “are” the teachers.


28 posted on 12/07/2011 8:25:29 AM PST by Scotswife
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To: SkyDancer

Same here. I have a lot of friends who are teachers. I’ve noticed the same frustrations. I’m sympathetic up to a point.

I’ll discuss conservative ideas for reforming education. But I’ve learned to avoid opening the discussion with, “You get paid for 12 months but only work 10.” It tends to end the debate prematurely, and it doesn’t approach the central problems of public education.


29 posted on 12/07/2011 8:25:47 AM PST by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

I admire you for your efforts, for your attention to your children. You are doing us all a favor I reckon, by raising honorable and respectful children. You truly ARE voting “present” in their lives.

It’s a jiggered system. Would that free-market principles rule!
Nope. The UNIONS. The teachers I know are forced to pay tribute, and that ends their (coerced) involvement. The ‘faces’ are activists, thugs, and useless bean-counters.

Good teachers are too busy trying to teach through the shackles imposed upon them by the UNION ADMINISTRATORS, and are not otherwise involved. They are at home at night grading math.

The teachers are not the problem. I wish we could focus on the power-broker UNION ADMINISTRATORS, and not the front-line grunts, who by-and-large, get through it and teach their passion by keeping their heads down.

I don’t know how decent folk do it, and MOST TEACHERS ARE DECENT FOLK!
I’d push for de-funding, and DISBANDING the dam union and doubling teacher salaries.
Now there’s a winner for whichever candidate dares suggest such a radical thing...the grunts would vote our side in droves!

(Then I’d work for vouchers)
Cheers!


30 posted on 12/07/2011 8:27:59 AM PST by spankalib (The Marx-in-the-Parks crowd is a basement skunkworks operation of the AFL-CIO)
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To: SkyDancer

...any wrong move and they’re fired..

you’re kidding right? google nyc teachers rubber rooms.
a family member is a principal. it is next to impossible
to fire a teacher.

...any wrong move and they’re fired.. lol hahahahahaha!

if only...


31 posted on 12/07/2011 8:28:48 AM PST by americas.best.days...
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To: Scotswife
Teachers unions “are” the teachers.

They're not teachers...they're "educators".

You just watch them for a while and you'll get a great education on the "education" industry and what a load of crap it is.

32 posted on 12/07/2011 8:29:30 AM PST by ROCKLOBSTER ( Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Who is really overpaid considering impact on the future of the country, teachers or stockbrokers? If you want the best pay the most. If education is failing pay more for teachers.


33 posted on 12/07/2011 8:31:33 AM PST by ex-snook ("above all things, truth beareth away the victory")
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To: C. Edmund Wright

...so we have children that can’t make change, but they sure now how to argue the ‘rights’ of homosexuals with Presidential candidates...


34 posted on 12/07/2011 8:32:04 AM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: americas.best.days...

Doesn’t matter. It hangs over their heads like Damocles sword. They have to report every incident no matter how minor. That’s why kids get hauled off by cops for stupid reasons.


35 posted on 12/07/2011 8:32:19 AM PST by SkyDancer ("If You Want To Learn To Love Better, You Should Start With A Friend Who You Hate")
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

I have watched them for awhile!

I feel bad for the good teachers - and there are many.

But the system is rigged to prop up the incompetents.


36 posted on 12/07/2011 8:32:33 AM PST by Scotswife
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To: Scotswife

They “were” the teachers, I agree. But their hearts were for power and bennies, NOT the children. They are sellouts for comfort. (and they weren’t good teachers to begin with - you can spot them a mile away!) The teachers I know despise that type.


37 posted on 12/07/2011 8:33:39 AM PST by spankalib (The Marx-in-the-Parks crowd is a basement skunkworks operation of the AFL-CIO)
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To: SkyDancer

any wrong move and they’re fired? really?

wow. what state are you from?


38 posted on 12/07/2011 8:34:11 AM PST by Scotswife
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To: C. Edmund Wright
Then do it. I happen to teach social studies and I happen to have a degree in history. NOT EDUCATION. I agree those with a typical degree in education are not that well prepared to teach a subject. That is starting to change. More emphasis is put on actually knowing a subject. I was able to teach due to a special program that attempts to get people who actually know the subject to teach. I only had to take three education courses in order to get my license.
I am considered “highly qualified” and do not have to take extra courses to teach. Teaching is much more than “life experiences”. Where are the life experiences in determining the causes of the American Revolution? What life experience teaches one the periodic table? Yes if you happen to be a chemist you will know it but lets get real here. Disparaging something does not make your position correct. I make half of the amount quoted in the article. I could be here 30 years and not make 50K. We do not have a union. We can be fired from year to year.

“... a lot of folks can do it...”, well let them is my answer. We loose about 1/2 of our new teachers each year. They cannot take it. My wife is a professional and she has told me a number of times she could not do my job. Teaching your own kids is one thing. Teaching those of others is another story. We are social workers, psychologists, parents, and much more to these kids. Many do not have anything like a normal life. I have kids just out of jail and kids in high school who can barely read. We do the best we can with what we are given. I am just telling you the reality of the situation. People tend to think in terms of “Leave It to Beaver” or “Father Knows Best” times. Those times are long gone. Think “Married With Children” if you want to know what the parents and children are like.

I have had jobs that had different pressures. Teaching, if you do it right, has its own pressure. It is not uncommon for me to work nights, weekends and on my vacation periods.
I don't mind the work as I enjoy the job. I have had many jobs in private and public life before I started to teach.
That makes me somewhat different but more and more people in my position are going into teaching. We are older and have seen the outside world of which you speak.

I have no problems with home schooling and I wish you well. It is a viable option for many people. I home schooled my daughter many years ago as she had a medical condition and could not be in school. She did fine. Good Luck.

39 posted on 12/07/2011 8:34:26 AM PST by prof.h.mandingo (Buck v. Bell (1927) An idea whose time has come (for extreme liberalism))
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To: Tallguy

We need to stop peeving off the teachers, the VAST MAJORITY of them are good people...in truth, they hate the unions more than we do - I SEE AN ELECTION OPPORTUNITY!


40 posted on 12/07/2011 8:36:44 AM PST by spankalib (The Marx-in-the-Parks crowd is a basement skunkworks operation of the AFL-CIO)
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To: ex-snook
If education is failing pay more for teachers.

Great tactics, poor strategy (sometimes). When Pennsylvania started the steady increase in teacher compensation all it did was delay the retirement of a lot of 'deadwood'. Tenure and Union Protection have to be dealt with at the same time. A series of nice pay raises my mother-in-law in the game way past her expiration date.

41 posted on 12/07/2011 8:37:44 AM PST by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: spankalib

Administrators and teachers are like Dogs and Cats — they view eachother with suspicion. This is why conservative ideas about paying teachers for performance don’t gain any traction. Teachers don’t trust administrators not to play favorites. That’s almost a direct quote.


42 posted on 12/07/2011 8:42:30 AM PST by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: spankalib

wow! you like to paint with a broad brush!

I’ve seen future administrators be groomed because they stand out from the rest.
I’ve seen teachers recommend fellow teachers for the jobs.

And so...just like there are many good teachers and some bad ones, so too - there are many good administrators and some bad ones.

And just as teachers despise many things about administrators...it doesn’t seem to occur to the teachers that the feeling is quite mutual.


43 posted on 12/07/2011 8:44:39 AM PST by Scotswife
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To: SeekAndFind

Children in the sixties KNEW how to make change...now they can’t. Solution? Give teachers a raise...then our children will know how to make change again. Hallelujah!


44 posted on 12/07/2011 8:48:22 AM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: Tallguy

Good point.
It’s unfair to those that actually do the WORK, to be ruled over by incompetent, power-hungry administrators.

That’s like saying; “I view socialists with suspicion.”
I’m not the problem. I work, and only eat what I kill.
Socialists are the problem... telling others what to do while they enjoy the fruits of others’ labors.
That’s what unions and administrators are.
THEY DESERVE being “viewed with suspicion” -

We conservatives are like the teachers here - we need to see this and harness this potential energy. The reason the unions and gubmit “views US with suspicion” is because united, we can take their power away.


45 posted on 12/07/2011 8:50:19 AM PST by spankalib (The Marx-in-the-Parks crowd is a basement skunkworks operation of the AFL-CIO)
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To: Don Corleone
Yes they do get a lot of time off, but most people don't realize that the time off is unpaid. They do not get paid for their 2 weeks off at Christmas, they do not get paid for their 1 week at Easter and they do not get paid for their summers.
If they are foolish enough to work summer school they get about 1/3 of there hours worked after taxes. I know this because my wife is a teacher; I finally had to put my foot down and tell her no more summer school, she could make more working as a greeter at the local Walmart and it keeps her in the Social Security System, most teachers don't quality for Social Security.
The reason that the system produces a crappy product; i.e. a well educated future citizen, is because of bad quality control. The tools for quality control are there, but they are not used by the responsible administrators.
Most school principals and higher administrators are ex-classroom teachers and have been indoctrinated to believe that every one should be a winner and they shouldn't damage their self esteem. Stupid; I know , but this is what the modern psychobabble higher educational system has pushed for the last 30 years. Self esteem is more important to them than performance, useless protoplasm might get it's feelings hurt and we can't have that.
Having said all this, I will now qualify it. I worked for a school district for 32 years; not in the educational area, but in the trades and maintenance departments. When I got promoted to supervisor, my first job was to sit down and read all of the Personnel Commission Rules and Regulations and Board Policies. I discovered that the rules were there, and they were very plain to any one who cared to apply them.
I started out with a department with over 80 employees and in the first two years I had to fire 13 employees for various disciplinary and competency problems, some of these employees had been working there for years, but previous supervisors were just not willing to put in the work to get rid of them. It takes about 120 hours of additional work; documenting, gathering statements, taking pictures, inspecting work, writing reports, special evaluations and counseling to get rid of one bad employee, most administrators are just not willing to do this extra work.
After you do your part of the job, then you have to take your evidence to your upper administrators and fight with them about a rightful termination. You get to listen to all of the excuses why this useless piece of meat should not be fired, he has a mortgage, he has a wife and 3 kids, he just needs more instruction, he is a nice guy, every body likes him. It's all bullcrap and they know it, they just don't want to hurt his feelings or they don't want to appear to be the bad guy. The school administrators apply this same psychobabble crap to all of their teachers plus they are not willing to do the extra work, it's easier to go along and get along than do the job they are supposed to get paid for.
The solution in my opinion is simple; no District Administrator, up to and including the Superintendent of Schools should come from the educational system. The system needs people who have real world experience, where results count more than the feelings and desires of the employees. I would suggest people with military or cut throat business back grounds for all positions of responsibility, people who can make a decision even when the decision is unpopular. The system can be fixed; but the problems can not all be put off on the teachers, the biggest problems start at the administrative level.
46 posted on 12/07/2011 8:57:33 AM PST by 5th MEB (Progressives in the open; --- FIRE FOR EFFECT!!)
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To: Scotswife

Sorry about the brush. I know there are good ones. My HS geometry teacher moved into admin after 30 years of teaching, and she was one of the best. I loved her, and saw her in September - took a trip to the old stomp - she’s STILL full of vinegar.

My opinion is that those who love to teach will do it for as long as they can - not taking note of the encumbrances here (burn out/frustration).
The system is top-heavy with admins. Fine get rid of bad admins and teachers, I’m good with that.
But “the system” is RUN by unions, goons, and admins. The teachers are just cogs.
DISBAND the union.
Whittle out the bad admins and teachers.
Vouchers.

To me, teachers are always the ‘little guys’ in these discussions, and I wish conservatives would target the unions and admin bean-counters.


47 posted on 12/07/2011 9:02:57 AM PST by spankalib (The Marx-in-the-Parks crowd is a basement skunkworks operation of the AFL-CIO)
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To: SeekAndFind
Eight Reasons Public School Teachers Are NOT Underpaid

#1: I'm married to one and she has to support my lifestyle.

48 posted on 12/07/2011 9:07:14 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: SeekAndFind

Well, they’re smart enough to have school board and school levy elections during the Spring. Just because they’re not very smart doesn’t mean that they’re not greedy.


49 posted on 12/07/2011 9:08:13 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: 5th MEB

” The tools for quality control are there, but they are not used by the responsible administrators.”

And what tools might these be?
If you don’t get rid of incompetents prior to tenure - or refuse to grant tenure to certain teachers - they pretty much have to assault a student or commit a crime to get fired.

” but in the trades and maintenance departments”

Oh - so you never had to fire a teacher. Ever see that manual?

“The solution in my opinion is simple; no District Administrator, up to and including the Superintendent of Schools should come from the educational system”

That’s easier said than done. While it would make good sense , perhaps, from a business/management aspect - you are asking people with no educational background to deal with state ed? deal with endless issues concerning the teachers & students, and parents?

Maybe the problem is with the higher educational institutions that are “training” the teachers and administrators in the first place.

“The system can be fixed; but the problems can not all be put off on the teachers, the biggest problems start at the administrative level.”

Even if you get your wish fulfilled - your “dream” administrators will still have deal with the unions, the budgets, and state ed.


50 posted on 12/07/2011 9:09:20 AM PST by Scotswife
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