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To: Youaskedforit
"Can you deny the fact that the early founders, for all their brilliance, never dreamed of today’s destructive capacities and extreme vulnerabilities?"

"Give me Liberty, or give me death!"

Case closed. Those men were much more likely to die at the end of a musket or bayonette, or a noose for taking up against the crown than any of us are to go up in a nuclear fireball, and they considered the liberties we now take for granted more important than their lives.

I think I probably have less likelihood of ending up in a nuclear terrorist attack in my lifetime than I do a re-education camp. If it ever came to that, and I had to choose which way I'd rather go out, I'd take the bomb. More importantly, I think the majority of these laws are much less about keeping WTP safe from foreign terrorists, than keeping our overlords safe from US. "No thank you" to potentially putting the country under despotic rule in exchange for a little security.
13 posted on 12/08/2011 1:11:25 PM PST by CowboyJay (Generic Republican - 2012. He's the only 'electable' candidate.)
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To: CowboyJay

“Those men were much more likely to die at the end of a musket or bayonette, or a noose for taking up against the crown than any of us are to go up in a nuclear fireball, and they considered the liberties we now take for granted more important than their lives.”

Patrick Henry Also told his friends and neighbors After the war was won to take their National Government and Shove It, as he feared that even the Constitution they were proposing Still concentrated the potential for Too much abuse in the hands of Too Few.

“Is life so sweet and peace so dear as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God!”


14 posted on 12/08/2011 1:22:49 PM PST by To-Whose-Benefit? (It is Error alone which needs the support of Government. The Truth can stand by itself.)
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To: CowboyJay

Ciao Cowboyjay,

Patrick Henry’s was a battle cry against the British. The whole thing as far as known (C&P from Wikipedia):

“It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace — but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!”

It’s not in the constitution and has no bearing on terrorism, but on oppression from a King, a nation, a protestant Christian Nation... that demanded taxation without representation (after “foolishly” allowing a long period of laissez faire).

An entirely different bag of beans than what we’re now faced with. What’s wrong with the word “AND”? Life AND liberty?

Never even mind the fact that we all know what death is much better than what liberty is.

We are not free if we’re hungry, but we’re not free if we are guaranteed a free meal either. Freedom comes with virtue... and virtue comes with some very tough Thou Shalt Not coercions.

My impression of the Libertarians is that they want the movies, but without all the production that goes behind them: in other words they want a free society but without the Sunday Schools, the solid families.

Those men would probably all beg the English of yore to come back and levy those same old taxes... which I bet were lighter than todays. (BTW even here in Italy, Mussolini’s taxation is beginning to look peachy compared to present-day).

The Brits lost and surrendered, I doubt there were any suicide bombers capable of hiding behind civilians among them.

Sorry, but case is not closed. In the name of liberty (for example freedom of religion) you have vast Islamic communities even in the States. You’ve also had the prohibition of beer on private picnics for a couple of decades (and even today in some “dry” counties).

Plus there’s another consideration. The framers were men, statesmen and politicians and not gods. It’s no crime of theirs if they didn’t foresee every problem in their otherwise splendid document.

I think the how-to-deal-with-terrorism (especially of the massively destructive suicidal variety) needs to be studied. Even a bit dispassionately, without out-of-context rhetoric. Life comes first, even if you’re on life support and some libertarian figures that “freedom” is pulling out the plug. It has to come first because liberty needs to be enjoyed by living humans.

With 50 million and plus abortions... “Give me liberty or give me death” is not something a fetus would say. He would say GIVE ME LIFE, give me a mother and a father, a good, hardworking and honest society, but give me life, please!”


15 posted on 12/08/2011 2:17:02 PM PST by Youaskedforit
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To: CowboyJay

“I think the majority of these laws are much less about keeping WTP safe from foreign terrorists, than keeping our overlords safe from US.”

Yup.


17 posted on 12/08/2011 2:25:37 PM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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