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Was Fast and Furious All About Gun Control?
Powerline ^ | 7 December, 2011 | John Hinderaker

Posted on 12/09/2011 7:01:23 AM PST by marktwain

The Democrats have longed to impose gun control, or confiscation, for decades, but after a series of electoral defeats they finally backed off. The issue has largely receded from view, although gun owners have remained vigilant. For some time, Second Amendment advocates have suspected that the Obama administration’s gun walking program (“Fast and Furious”) was intended to create a pretext for bringing back the gun control issue. There has been a little evidence of that, but not much. Today, however, Sharyl Attkisson of CBS, who has been all over the Fast and Furious scandal and would, in a sane world, get a Pulitzer Prize, broke another scoop:

Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation “Fast and Furious” to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.

ATF officials didn’t intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called “Demand Letter 3″. That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or “long guns.” Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF’s Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

“Bill – can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks.”

On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as “(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue.” And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell: “Bill–well done yesterday… (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case.”

Follow the link, and you can see the emails. I have reviewed hundreds of thousands of emails produced in discovery, and am acutely aware that one should not draw cosmic conclusions on the basis of a few ill-chosen words or random references. We certainly want to be fair to the Obama administration officials who were involved in Fast and Furious. But a fundamental question has never been answered: why in the world did the Obama administration not just allow AK-47s and other weapons to be shipped across the border to Mexican drug gangs, but encourage and even finance such transactions, over the objections of jittery gun shop owners and its own veteran agents? If the Obama administration wasn’t trying to set up an argument for more gun control, then what was it trying to do? That question has never been answered.

If the Obama administration did arrange for the shipment of arms to Mexican drug gangs, not for any legitimate public purpose but in order to advance a left-wing political agenda, and those guns were used to murder hundreds of Mexicans and at least one American border agent–which they were–then we are looking at a scandal that dwarfs any in modern American history. I think one would have to go back to James Buchanan, who ordered the shipment of federal armaments to the South so that they could be commandeered by secessionists when disunion came, to find a worse scandal. And one could argue that even that act by Buchanan, generally considered the worst President in American history, was motivated by principle and not politics, and therefore was not as craven as Obama’s gun walker scandal. But such a judgment would be premature. A great deal more investigation needs to be done before we can conclude that Fast and Furious was the worst scandal since pre-Civil War days.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: atf; attkisson; banglist; dea; dhs; doj; fastandfurious; fbi; gunrunner; gunwalker; holder; obama
Links to the emails at the site.
1 posted on 12/09/2011 7:01:34 AM PST by marktwain
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To: MestaMachine

Gunwalker ping.


2 posted on 12/09/2011 7:02:17 AM PST by marktwain (In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
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To: marktwain

Can you say “working under the radar”? Sounds like this is what was meant to sarah brady when obie talked to her about the lack of action concerning those evil gun owners.


3 posted on 12/09/2011 7:04:36 AM PST by rktman
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To: marktwain
Yes.

Next question.

4 posted on 12/09/2011 7:05:50 AM PST by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: marktwain
If it wasn't about Gun Control, what has the ATF done with the information gleaned from the program as it relates to the stated goal of tracking sales to Mexican drug cartels?

Anybody? Anybody?

Pelosi?

Reid?

Bueller?

Bueller?

5 posted on 12/09/2011 7:06:46 AM PST by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: marktwain

Treason


6 posted on 12/09/2011 7:07:32 AM PST by Hoosier-Daddy ( "It does no good to be a super power if you have to worry what the neighbors think." BuffaloJack)
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: marktwain
"We certainly want to be fair to the Obama administration officials who were involved in Fast and Furious"

Not everyone thinks commies need to be treated fairly as seen from the commie viewpoint.

8 posted on 12/09/2011 7:09:29 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: marktwain

Pretty much...


9 posted on 12/09/2011 7:10:09 AM PST by WayneS (Comments now include 25 percent more sarcasm for no additional charge...)
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To: marktwain

The Federal Government tried to light a Reichstag fire by fueling a drug war at our Southern border.


10 posted on 12/09/2011 7:10:27 AM PST by EricT. (Is a country that would re-elect Baroke Hussein Owebama really worth saving?)
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To: marktwain

duh, it’s all about gun control, people control, power and ambition


11 posted on 12/09/2011 7:13:16 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: marktwain

Absolutely. Check out “Sarah Brady claims Obama pushing gun control under the radar”

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/sarah-brady-claims-obama-pushing-under-the-radar-gun-control


12 posted on 12/09/2011 7:14:15 AM PST by arichtaxpayer
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To: marktwain
I think one would have to go back to James Buchanan, who ordered the shipment of federal armaments to the South so that they could be commandeered by secessionists when disunion came, to find a worse scandal. And one could argue that even that act by Buchanan, generally considered the worst President in American history, was motivated by principle and not politics, and therefore was not as craven as Obama’s gun walker scandal.

I think the history is a little off here. My reading of it says that it was not Buchanan who ordered the armements shipped to the South, but his Secretary of War, a guy named John B. Floyd

13 posted on 12/09/2011 7:14:57 AM PST by Ditto (Nov 2, 2010 -- Partial cleaning accomplished. More trash to remove in 2012)
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To: marktwain; rktman; facedown; Texas Eagle; Hoosier-Daddy; Dead Corpse; Paladin2; WayneS

COMMENTS BUMP!


14 posted on 12/09/2011 7:15:56 AM PST by PGalt
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To: marktwain
Was Fast and Furious All About Gun Control?

Yes, but don't forget the basic tenet of a would be dictator like Hussein 0bama boils down to one thing - PEOPLE CONTROL!.

FUBO GTFO! 408 Days until Noon Jan 20, 2013

15 posted on 12/09/2011 7:19:01 AM PST by The Sons of Liberty (Psalm 109:8 Let his days be few and let another take his office. - Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin)
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To: Texas Eagle

The simple fact they can’t give a reason that they facilitated the illegal sale of untraceable guns to the cartel is pretty damning. I mean, they can’t even say what they hoped would happen.

The only possible thing I can think of is that they had deeply imbedded agents who were going to handle the guns as they worked their way down south. Doesn’t seem too likely, apart from the morality of letting bad guys use them, as I take it the usual procedure is to discard any weapons used so they can’t be traced any farther.

Freegards


16 posted on 12/09/2011 7:20:22 AM PST by Ransomed
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To: EricT.
The Federal Government tried to light a Reichstag fire by fueling a drug war at our Southern border.

As accurate as that statement appears to be given the abundant evidence, the accusation is way beyond mere "treason" and is well ensconced in the realm of "Active Declaration of War Against America"

Its just not as dramatic as dropping nuclear weapons on Houston, El Paso, Phoenix and LA.

17 posted on 12/09/2011 7:21:27 AM PST by The Theophilus (Obama's Key to win 2012: Ban Haloperidol)
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To: The Theophilus
It's an act of terrorism, as currently defined --- since we can't come out against islamism.

Send H0lder to Gitmo.

18 posted on 12/09/2011 7:32:22 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: facedown

You bet this was the plan to take the guns away from the People. The plan back fired and—let us hope—it can take down the Obama crew and his would be Socialist/Progressive plans. Down with Holder! Down with all who tried this terrible and deadly stunt.


19 posted on 12/09/2011 7:35:39 AM PST by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: marktwain

Lemme see? It would be possible to understand one hundred or several hundred guns thru this one source. To more accurately make the point about arms control, if that were the true focus of the program; would it not have been better to have instances from all over the country?

I could swallow gun control as a driver for FAST & FURIOUS if that was the case. What I see in this is gun control, as an issue, being piggy-backed on an extant program. What is the program? Why nothing more than the arming of one or more cartels - plain and simple.

The complication is: why arm the cartels even more? Answer that and the truth becomes self-evident. This is what the DEA and DoJ and others are desperate to hide. I am very surprised that we have not seen more fallout from this debacle than we already have.

I would suspect the fallout to be in the form of dead bodies.

What use does Obama, or his cohorts, have in having heavily armed groups of foreign nationals, most probably obligated to him, based just across the border?


20 posted on 12/09/2011 7:43:45 AM PST by .44 Special (Taimid Buarch)
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To: .44 Special
based just across the border?

Call 1-800-whitehouse to find the retail outlet in your neighborhood!

21 posted on 12/09/2011 7:55:27 AM PST by MurrietaMadman
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To: marktwain
A LA Times article said that selling guns to Mexico was to start a civil war so Obama could give Mexicans citizenship under some existing law.
22 posted on 12/09/2011 7:59:47 AM PST by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: marktwain

It’s more than just to call for more gun control. They also want millions more “refugees” heading north, by turning Mexico into a war zone.


23 posted on 12/09/2011 8:01:15 AM PST by DeepInTheHeartOfTexas
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To: .44 Special
It's just too close to the Clinton's 1996 dirty tricks campaign to be a coincidence.

In 1996 Clinton's buddies the Chinese military was arming up the LA gangs with full auto weapons to make sure Clinton didn't leave the WH.

If Sheriff Joe finds Zippo is ineligible to be president everyone is going to find out the hard way F&F is not about gun control, they intend for those weapons to be used.

24 posted on 12/09/2011 8:03:07 AM PST by IMR 4350
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To: .44 Special
Lemme see? It would be possible to understand one hundred or several hundred guns thru this one source. To more accurately make the point about arms control, if that were the true focus of the program; would it not have been better to have instances from all over the country?

The investigation is ongoing. We have reports of "gunwalking" in Texas, Florida, and Indiana (to Chicago gangs). The investigation in those other areas has been hampered because no whistle-blowers have come forward as they did in Arizona.

This is not surprising, given the Regimes retaliation against the whistle-blowers in Fast and Furious, and the fact that no federal agents were killed in the other programs.

25 posted on 12/09/2011 8:39:47 AM PST by marktwain (In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
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To: marktwain

WELCOME to the party, John. Many of us have been making these claims for a year now, but it’s good to have you on board.


26 posted on 12/09/2011 8:57:05 AM PST by Oldpuppymax
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To: PGalt

No comment. Apparently any comment I make on this topic will be removed.


27 posted on 12/09/2011 9:02:17 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: marktwain

Yes it was.


28 posted on 12/09/2011 9:08:15 AM PST by bmwcyle (I am ready to serve Jesus on Earth because the GOP failed again)
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To: marktwain; Joe Brower; Travis McGee; LucyT; vette6387; MetaThought; 60Gunner; XHogPilot; ...

Just when I think it’s safe to walk away from the computer....
PING!


29 posted on 12/09/2011 9:55:58 AM PST by MestaMachine (obama kills)
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To: MestaMachine

It still is.

Can’t we just see it now?

Holder has said those weapons will be used in crimes in the future. Because of this ‘tragedy,’ ‘for the children,’ we will have to......

Never mind that lying is a all in someone’s mind.


30 posted on 12/09/2011 10:04:10 AM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: marktwain
...why in the world did the Obama administration not just allow AK-47s and other weapons to be shipped across the border to Mexican drug gangs, but encourage and even finance such transactions, over the objections of jittery gun shop owners and its own veteran agents? If the Obama administration wasn’t trying to set up an argument for more gun control, then what was it trying to do? That question has never been answered.

I suspect they were up to more than one horror - but lying to create the illusion of a need for more gun control was definitely on their list...

31 posted on 12/09/2011 10:06:04 AM PST by GOPJ (Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, Than a fatted calf with hatred - Proverbs 15)
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To: Ransomed

I look at F&F as arming 0bama’s ‘civilian army’ in pursuit of overrunning the US.


32 posted on 12/09/2011 10:08:30 AM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: combat_boots

All this has succeeded in doing is tripling gunsales across the country and making the people who OWN guns that much more willing to fight for the right to keep them.
We are a mighty stubborn lot. Yes, we are.


33 posted on 12/09/2011 10:27:02 AM PST by MestaMachine (obama kills)
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To: IMR 4350; melancholy; LucyT

It’s just too close to the Clinton’s 1996 dirty tricks campaign to be a coincidence.

In 1996 Clinton’s buddies the Chinese military was arming up the LA gangs with full auto weapons to make sure Clinton didn’t leave the WH.

If Sheriff Joe finds Zippo is ineligible to be president everyone is going to find out the hard way F&F is not about gun control, they intend for those weapons to be used.


That’s it.


34 posted on 12/09/2011 12:42:31 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: little jeremiah
Hillary's dirty tricks campaign, her plan “A”, for the 2008 election was to recreate a “Rodney King” type race riot.

Al Sharpton was front and center in Hillary's dirty tricks campaign when he tried to gin up civil unrest with the Jenna 6 BS.

Congress had started the nonsensical BS with the firing of the US Attorneys. They were trying to make it appear as if Bush had fired the US Attorneys to cover up for police misconduct.

That dirty trick got derailed by the Virginia Tech shooting bumping it out of the news and the Jenna 6 abandoned Al Sharpton and left him with squat.

Hillary went to plan “B” which was supposed to take Zippo right to the very edge of being elected then have him declared ineligible to be president. This would have triggered race riots throughout the country and launched Hillary into the WH with basically dictatorial powers. Right out of the Weather Underground playbook.

Nobody on the right side of the isle cooperated with Hillary's plan, and if she did it herself she wouldn't get the black vote. No black vote no presidency.

We're getting Hillary's plan “B” to get her fat ass into the WH.

35 posted on 12/09/2011 1:44:48 PM PST by IMR 4350
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To: IMR 4350

The best-laid schemes o’ mice an ‘men
Gang aft agley..

Hitlery’s too hideous and ancient looking, I don’t think she could steal enough votes to put her over the top.


36 posted on 12/09/2011 2:22:08 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: marktwain

bttt


37 posted on 12/09/2011 3:34:07 PM PST by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: MestaMachine

bttt


38 posted on 12/09/2011 8:01:16 PM PST by GOPJ (Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, Than a fatted calf with hatred - Proverbs 15)
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To: Dead Corpse

Thanks for the ping, Dead Corpse. I was originally going to post to your post only because it was right on and I was glad someone had the guts to say it...then I was going to add Hoosier-Daddy (”Treason”) because that’s how I see it...then I decided to ping all posters. Very interesting that yours was removed.


39 posted on 12/10/2011 8:26:42 AM PST by PGalt
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To: little jeremiah
Since the 1992 election, every presidential race has been proceeded with the left ginning up civil unrest. In every single case there has been an attempt to resurrect a “Rodney King” type incident, something around police misconduct.

Just a few of the times RK has been used to gin up civil unrest.

1992 election we had the Rodney King LA race riots. Following the RK beating Bush had ordered the FBI to review all complaints filed against police with the FBI for the previous 5 years. There was somewhere around 15,000 complaints (files) filed only around 42 had been pursued in court. One case that was pursued was against Gov. Bill Clinton for ordering his state troopers to racial profile.

The dems claimed since only 42 cases had been pursued out of 15,000 complaints, that proved Repub. racism. Those FBI files on police misconduct is what was used to spark the LA race riots.

Following the riots in 1992 the FBI claimed there was nothing in the files. Bush ordered the US Attorneys to review the files. Perot was in the 92 election to make sure Bush didn't release the content of the files, not only because of the complaints against Clinton's state troopers that had gotten him sued, but because police, for the most part, are agents of the city governments which by and large are controlled by dems. The files showed police are not being hed accountable because of corrupt city govt., read dems., not repub. racism.

When Reno was nominated for AG she said she would release the content of the files if confirmed. Instead of releasing the content of the files, she fired the US Attorneys. The MSM never followed up on the content of the files because a little incident in Waco, TX diverted their attention.

Vince Foster's job was to surround Clinton with people that needed the USA’s fired for their role in covering up police corruption. Following Waco, Vince Foster started spilling his guts about the files, VF ended up dead.

These files, or these type of files, is what Hillary threatened to release during Clinton's impeachment, her “Scorched Earth Policy”, not the files Craig Livingston got which were nothing more than a ruse to divert peoples attention.

1996-They used the OJ Simpson trial to divide the races. Farrakhan (SP) had his million man march, called it a million man army. Brian Ross began dredging up the Rodney King case and the FBI files again in December of 1996. Dems fell in line and supported Clinton's reelection. Clinton and his minions in the press began with the BS stories of Black Churches being burned. Clinton was all about gun control and had implemented the so called assault weapons ban, but signed a special waver for his Chinese buddies to bring in 100-150,000 SKS semi auto rifles. They were so cheap you could buy one for under $50. While the Chinese were bringing in these weapons they were also smuggling in full auto weapons to the gangs in LA.

1998- Snot nose George Stephanopelas(SP) threatened a “Scorched Earth Policy” if Clinton was impeached. Dems voted in lock step not to impeach Clinton. That alone is enough to tell you the threat was against dems not repubs.

1999-(March) Reno is putting together a report on “Racial Profiling”, Quanel X out of Houston is running all over the country looking for a police misconduct incident to gin up civil unrest, referring to it as “The spark that ignites the flame” which is straight from the Weather Underground. March 20, 1999 AP reporter Martha Mendoza writes a story that police aren't being held accountable, drags out the FBI complaints (files) again. AP stops pursing the story when at least 15 people (I was #15) contact the reporter and inform her dem controlled city govts. are responsible for police not being held accountable, not republicans.

2000- dems once again drag out racial profiling and add voter disfranchisement trying to gin up civil unrest. B Clinton had been sued for both while gov of Ark.

August 2002- Charles Baron makes a comment if they don't get reparations for slavery there will be “Scorched Earth” meaning race riots, in every city.

2004- dems try to use Abu Grahab prison to gin up civil unrest in black community by claiming Abu Grahab symbolizes the plight of the black man in Americas prisons. Police misconduct again.

Nov 2006- dems start witch hunt with the firing of the US Attorneys. Sharon Eubanks with CREW claims there are problems in the “Civil Right Division” at justice. DING DING DING! Trying to drag up police misconduct again and make it appear as if Bush fired the USA’s to cover up police misconduct. Hillary loves to project in her dirty tricks campaigns.

Al Sharpton was running around trying to gin up civil unrest in the black community with the Jenna 6. Starts his campaign with “NOOSE” being the new “N” word. Phony stories of a noose being hug up to intimidate blacks start popping up all over the country. Same BS as the phony stories of black churches being burned during the 1996 election.

2008- Gates dust up. Phony story of racial profiling by police. CBC wants an investigation of police misconduct and Bush's Justice Dept. civil rights division. Congress is still trying to make the case Bush firing of USA’s was somehow wrong and tries to tie police misconduct, racial profiling, and the firing of the USA’s by Bush together.

Hillary's projecting again.

2011- Al Sharpton, Hillary's point man in her 2007 dirty tricks campaign to orchestrate race riots is hired by MSNBC. Just several weeks ago Special Ed Schultz tried to drag up the R King case again make making the ridiculous claim the pepper spraying of the students was another Rodney King type incident.

Whenever Rodney King is dragged back up, Hillary is going for the WH.

OWS is Hillary priming the pump for race riots. Zippo is going to be out and Hillary is going to be in. It's being set up to blame the 1% for getting Zippo declared ineligible, and to make the claim that the 1% the RICH WHITE PEOPLE control the govt.

40 posted on 12/10/2011 8:34:22 AM PST by IMR 4350
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To: marktwain

What if the plan is simply to get more weapons on the streets so that murderous thugs can kill innocent Americans? As Obama destroys our economy, stretches the resources of public assistance and contributes to the breakdown of people who live one step away from a mistake that makes them homeless, people become more restless and hopeless. This encourages the inner cities to riot, once the spigots get turned off.

I see everything that is happening as putting all of America in one big pressure cooker, every single person is being pushed upon with greater force all the time, just waiting for that one little spark that he needs to light the fire.

And then I remember, Hillary Clinton ascribes to Alinsky’s point of view, as well.


41 posted on 12/10/2011 8:56:15 AM PST by Pan_Yans Wife ("Real solidarity means coming together for the common good."-Sarah Palin)
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To: PGalt; Dead Corpse

I’m sure whatever Dead Corpse said I agreed with. I never did see the deleted comment.


42 posted on 12/10/2011 7:31:02 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: little jeremiah; PGalt
It happens. The Mods have a job to do. I guess it wasn"t "non-specific" enough. Or whatever the current legal/politically correct limit is...

And yes, I'm making a deeper point there too...

43 posted on 12/10/2011 10:05:29 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: Dead Corpse

My tagline...?


44 posted on 12/10/2011 10:09:47 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: little jeremiah

My last comment there was that even non-specific speculation is apparently frowned upon now. It’s a dangerous slide due to political correctness and fear.


45 posted on 12/10/2011 10:34:37 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: Dead Corpse

Fear and threats, Cain’s grandchildren were threatened, that’s why he bowed out. Palin was threatened, I’ve read. The Post and Email described a long time ago that all kinds of media/talkshow people were threatened.

We’re in the middle of a coup and anyone in positions who could do or say something are sitting in the corner wetting their pants.


46 posted on 12/10/2011 10:57:37 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: little jeremiah

As I said, rather than fight.... They fled. Not a good attitude to have in a President.


47 posted on 12/11/2011 8:29:44 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: Dead Corpse

Long ago, the kings would ride into battle in the van of the fighting. Or at least participate in the battle. The ideal king was a warrior with courage.


48 posted on 12/11/2011 8:39:05 AM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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