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Gingrich: "Palestinians" an "invented people"
Jihadwatch / AGI ^ | 9th Dec, 2011 | AGI

Posted on 12/09/2011 3:19:40 PM PST by yank in the UK

Gingrich is right in this. PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein said this in 1977: The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Foreign Affairs; Government; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: gingrich; invention; newtgingrich; palestinians

1 posted on 12/09/2011 3:19:43 PM PST by yank in the UK
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To: yank in the UK

Many Lebanese have a different (non-Arab) lineage than Jordanians, Palestinians, or Syrians - I believe many were there at the time of the Old Testament, pre-dating the Arab (and subsequent Turkish) invasions. I have Palestinian coins from 1942; what should those people call themselves?

If they’re all Arabs anyway, why use names like “Jordanians”, “Syrians”, “Iraqis”, “Saudis”, “Moroccans”, etc.


2 posted on 12/09/2011 3:28:58 PM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: kearnyirish2

They are a tribe of arabs, there was no Palestine or Palestinians until the Brits ran things after WW1.

Newt is correct on this.


3 posted on 12/09/2011 3:31:08 PM PST by Leto (Damn shame Palin didn't run, The Presidency was Her's for the taking)
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To: yank in the UK

I have to give props to Newt for speaking the truth on this point.


4 posted on 12/09/2011 3:33:28 PM PST by ScubieNuc
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To: Leto

“They are a tribe of arabs, there was no Palestine or Palestinians until the Brits ran things after WW1.”

I understand what you are saying, but how are they different from Jordanians or Syrians in that respect? They were all former colonies of Europe.


5 posted on 12/09/2011 3:42:31 PM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: kearnyirish2

The story seems to me to be about WHY they call themselves what they call themselves. It’s the why not the what.


6 posted on 12/09/2011 3:43:09 PM PST by TalBlack ( Evil doesn't have a day job.)
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To: TalBlack

What should they call themselves?

What name would be acceptable?


7 posted on 12/09/2011 3:44:20 PM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: kearnyirish2

Considering “Palestine” is an area and not a state..... perhaps, Arabs?


8 posted on 12/09/2011 3:50:23 PM PST by traderrob6
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To: yank in the UK

As usual Newt is right.


9 posted on 12/09/2011 3:51:05 PM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (Newt Gingrich 2012!)
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To: kearnyirish2
Syrians and Jordanians

which is what they are.

10 posted on 12/09/2011 3:53:22 PM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (Newt Gingrich 2012!)
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To: traderrob6

That’s not a state either. If it is an area, and they live there, what else would they be called?

Armenians were Armenians whether or not there was an Armenian state; it was a geographic area.


11 posted on 12/09/2011 3:55:28 PM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: yank in the UK
The land of Palestine was invented by Caesar of Rome when he renamed the conquered Israel after the Philistines, Israel's enemy.
12 posted on 12/09/2011 3:56:17 PM PST by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: kearnyirish2

What should they call themselves?

Terrorists!


13 posted on 12/09/2011 3:57:25 PM PST by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

“Syrians and Jordanians which is what they are.”

I don’t see them accepting your proposal (or your logic).


14 posted on 12/09/2011 3:57:39 PM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: yank in the UK

Palestine is a corruption of ‘Philistine’ and the current day Palestinians do have verified genetic ties to the Libyans and Tunisians. Their common history comes via the Carthaginians who were descendants of the Philistines.

Not to take the side of the Palestinians (who I’d just as soon see frog-marched into the Jordanian desert) but the fact of the matter is that modern day Palestine is no less real or fake than modern day Israel. Both came into existence at the same time. Both are nations of people who hold a nationalistic identity but the difference is that one people, Israel, have land. The Palestinians could easily have land in some Arab country were it not for the fact that most Arabs hate the Palestinians more than the Israelis ever did.


15 posted on 12/09/2011 4:00:59 PM PST by MeganC (No way in Hell am I voting for Mitt Romney. Not now, not ever. Deal with it.)
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To: kearnyirish2; Jewbacca
The enmity between Arabs and Jews (and by extension, Christians, their cousins) dates back to the 27th chapter of Genesis when, in the Arab view, Jacob and his mother Rebekah tricked their father Isaac into bestowing the birthright on Jacob, rather than Esau, the first born of the two twins.

Arabs claim descendency from Esau and, by extension, Abraham. Jacob, as the father of the Jews (and, again by extension, Christians, their cousins) is in their view a treacherous interloper as is Rebekah and, by extension, women in general.

This is a key reason why the Islamic mind looks down on women, Jews and Christians and considers themselves the rightful rulers of mankind.

The various factions of Islam have slightly different interpretations but all agree on this topic if you directly ask them.

Few Christians and secular Jews understand this thought process, but it is well understood among the Israelite Jews, some of whom I count among my close friends.

16 posted on 12/09/2011 4:03:57 PM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: kearnyirish2
What should they call themselves?

How about Israelis as they live in Israel.

17 posted on 12/09/2011 4:03:59 PM PST by AmusedBystander (The philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next)
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To: MeganC

It all goes back to Abraham, and his two sons. Isaac and Ishmael. That is the root of this conflict!


18 posted on 12/09/2011 4:06:21 PM PST by yank in the UK (decapitation before capitulation)
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To: Vigilanteman

I thought the separation was about Ishmael the first born (albeit via concubine) and Isaac (born later to Sarah).


19 posted on 12/09/2011 4:10:06 PM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: yank in the UK

Maybe a dumb question but, When did the early settlers begin calling themselves “Americans?”


20 posted on 12/09/2011 4:10:50 PM PST by Misterioso
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To: AmusedBystander

Israel has withdrawn from some of the areas these people live in; I don’t think that would apply.


21 posted on 12/09/2011 4:11:23 PM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: kearnyirish2
What should they call themselves? What name would be acceptable?

MUSLIMS!

22 posted on 12/09/2011 4:13:15 PM PST by Old Sarge (RIP FReeper Skyraider (1930-2011) - You Are Missed)
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To: Old Sarge

That is a religion; some Palestinians are Christian. That would be like referring to Americans merely as “Christians”; it really isn’t a good fit, and denotes nothing about one’s culture, language, etc. while giving a sometimes erroneous view of their faith.


23 posted on 12/09/2011 4:15:18 PM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: kearnyirish2
um... Israel won the territory from Jordan and Syria in the Six day war, thus they are Jordanians and Syrians.

Unless they are from the Gaza strip, in which case they are Egyptians.

24 posted on 12/09/2011 4:16:08 PM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (Newt Gingrich 2012!)
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To: yank in the UK
For a good short history review, watch Glenn Beck - History of the Middle East, in a couple of mins.

Newt is correct.
25 posted on 12/09/2011 4:23:02 PM PST by Yosemitest (It's simple, fight or die!)
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To: kearnyirish2

The Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic was (although expediatently created and illegitimate) a state.....

“A country of Asia Minor east of Turkey and north of Iran. Acquired by Russia from Persia in 1828”.

Palestine on he other hand is a geographic region and has NEVER been an official state.

Calling the people that reside in Palestine (palestinians) is less accurate than calling them Israelo/PaliLeb/Egypto/Leba Guacamolians.

Mixed ethnic backgound, no state means NOMADS.

Little or no ethnic


26 posted on 12/09/2011 4:23:55 PM PST by traderrob6
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To: kearnyirish2

“What name would be acceptable?”

Evil, muderous, hate-filled A**H*les would at leas be descriptive. But it really doesn’t matter. The article was about WHY they have gone and made up a name for themselves.


27 posted on 12/09/2011 4:30:51 PM PST by TalBlack ( Evil doesn't have a day job.)
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To: kearnyirish2

What should they call themselves? Homeless.

What name would be acceptable? Freeloaders.


28 posted on 12/09/2011 4:47:35 PM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: kearnyirish2

The 1848 construction of Israel is partly a result of the winners and losers in WWII. The Arabs in British Palestine tended to back the Germans. The Russians moved the eastern Polish borders 200 miles toward Germany and the western Polish borders 200 miles into Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_changes_of_Poland_immediately_after_World_War_II

Lots of borders were moved around and changed.

Land belongs to those who can hold it.


29 posted on 12/09/2011 5:16:08 PM PST by marktwain (In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
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To: marktwain

1848 should be 1948.


30 posted on 12/09/2011 5:17:22 PM PST by marktwain (In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
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To: MeganC
I understood that they were given land along with Israel and Jordan seized it.
31 posted on 12/09/2011 5:20:23 PM PST by ontap
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To: yank in the UK
Seems to fit... ;>)

Photobucket

32 posted on 12/09/2011 5:20:37 PM PST by SiVisPacemParaBellum (Peace through superior firepower!)
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To: kearnyirish2
The Palestinian brigade that operated under the British in WWII was comprised of all Jews.
33 posted on 12/09/2011 5:46:32 PM PST by D Rider
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To: yank in the UK

Newt is the only candidate with the guts to just tell it like it is.


34 posted on 12/09/2011 8:22:43 PM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: MeganC
The United States is one of the oldest nation-states in existence--and 15 years before the Declaration of Independence no one expected that we would renounce our British identity and become Americans. Of the 192 members of the UN, most have independent existence as a nation-state only from some time after 1900, and only a handful from before 1800. Even the United Kingdom has existed as such only since 1707.

Even the peoples with very ancient histories--Jews, Greeks, Italians, Chinese, etc., in most cases became nation-states only in the 19th or 20th centuries.

The Greek nation may take pride in the ancient Greeks but their existence as a modern nation owes more to the Enlightenment and the French Revolution--and their present-day borders date only to 1947.

Most of the African nations are the result of European powers drawing lines on maps in the late 1800s. The Palestinians may have started thinking of themselves as Palestinians rather than Arabs only in the 1960s, but there are plenty of nations that are only slightly older (ca. 1960) and some that are younger (East Timor, South Sudan, Moldova, etc.).

35 posted on 12/09/2011 8:55:04 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: TexasFreeper2009

Which one of them includes Bethlehem?


36 posted on 12/09/2011 10:52:14 PM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: marktwain

The losers of WWI (specifically Turkey) determined the fate of the land; Palestine was set up by Britain in 1917 (before it was over).

“Land belongs to those who can hold it.” The Palestinians understand the implications of this as well as anyone else.


37 posted on 12/09/2011 11:11:29 PM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: D Rider

“The Palestinian brigade that operated under the British in WWII was comprised of all Jews.”

I’m not sure what that implies, but Jewish groups like the Irgun 25 years later fought the British.


38 posted on 12/09/2011 11:14:06 PM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: kearnyirish2

That is also correct. Arabs who can (or claim to be able) to trace their genealogies back that far all claim to be either descendents of Esau or Ishmael.


39 posted on 12/10/2011 9:02:36 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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Thanks yank in the UK.
40 posted on 12/10/2011 3:09:58 PM PST by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: kearnyirish2

The “palestinians” are largely immigrants from Syria, Jordan, and Eqypt.

What-is-now Israel was largely empty for a good 1000 years until the mid-1800s when Jews returned from the surrouding area (purchasing lands from the Turks) and Jewish people from Russia fled the various pogroms.

The exception to this was Jerusalem, which was a mixed town of about 50% Jews, 30-40% Christian arabs, and the rest Druse or arab muslims.

The al-asqa mosque on the Temple mount was pretty much a deserted ruin -— the legend that it was a “holy place” where Mohammed landed being a fairly recent myth for pure Western consumption -— it was BUILT AFTER HE WAS DEAD.

Anyway, “East Jerusalem” became “Arab East Jerusalem” in the early 1900s when German-equiped Jodanian troops commited ethnic-cleansing and kicked the Jewish people out of their homes where they (their families) had been living for 2000+ years.

Regarding the rest of the arab populations, they were basically lower-class arabs who came to Golan and other Jewish areas to get work -— the Jewish returnees in the 1800s were building and needed labor.

100 years later, those arabs claim to be the natives, despite all truth and easy disproving of their claims.

(Same things is happening in Europe, BTW, so your kids will have fun with that.)


41 posted on 12/12/2011 8:10:56 AM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Vigilanteman

“the Islamic mind looks down on women, Jews and Christians and considers themselves the rightful rulers of mankind.”

This is correct. When Jewish people were returning to Israel as-part-of-an-Islamic-run area, immigration and land sales were encouraged.

When the Jewish people shucked off the yoke of the muslims by declaring independence, war was declared.

There was no “stolen land” or any of the B.S. they whine about today.

All that happened was Dhiminnis refused to bow to their “muslim masters,” and this act of rebellion shook the very basis of muslim theology, showing to be false.


42 posted on 12/12/2011 8:15:50 AM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Misterioso
When did the early settlers begin calling themselves “Americans?”

In the early 18th century. But the time of the French and Indian war (1750s), Americans were considered a distinct culture regardless of the origin of their European ancestors.

43 posted on 12/12/2011 8:38:03 AM PST by Ditto (Nov 2, 2010 -- Partial cleaning accomplished. More trash to remove in 2012)
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To: Verginius Rufus

You’re using the Western metaphorical interpretation of ‘nation’ to mean something that has to do with arbitrary lines drawn upon a map. I’m using the classical interpretation of ‘nation’ which refers to a people regardless of where they are on a map. When Israel was exiled to Babylon and to Egypt they were still a nation even though they were landless. The same with Native American tribes that are landless or which are no longer on their ancestral lands. Having some survey lines does not make a nation. A people with a collective identity makes a nation.

Which is part of why I worry about the future of America and that’s because we are becoming a place on the map without a collective identity amongst our people.


44 posted on 12/12/2011 10:30:33 AM PST by MeganC (No way in Hell am I voting for Mitt Romney. Not now, not ever. Deal with it.)
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To: Jewbacca

I’ve read Tom Friedman, and he doesn’t dismiss the number of Arabs that had been living in the area for centuries. Even in the Old Testament, there are other people already living there.

As far as Europe’s situation, in 100 years they WILL be natives there (and Europe will have to deal with that).


45 posted on 12/12/2011 4:58:37 PM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: kearnyirish2

"I’ve read Tom Friedman, and he doesn’t dismiss the number of Arabs that had been living in the area for centuries.

Picture above is the founding of Tel Aviv. Look populated?

Go read Mark Twain's "Innocents Abroad." Aside from being funny, it's a serious travelouge. He explores what-is-now-Israel from top to bottom. With the exception of Jerusalem (which was held down by Orthodox Jewish folk and various Christian monks), it was essentially empty.

Or, you can go find the old Ottoman Empire census of the area. The arab occupants with in the "couple thousand" range, and were primarily bedouins. (Bedoins not being "palestinians" -- and peaceful with Israel.)

"Even in the Old Testament, there are other people already living there."

So? There is no meaingful connection between the Cannanites (who were wiped out) and the Philistines (who were basically Greeks) and the current arab occupiers of Judea and Samaria. Further, the scientists tell us Israel was markedly wetter and greener then, but turned into a true desert during the last 1500 years --- the result of which being depopulation.

46 posted on 12/13/2011 9:06:14 AM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: kearnyirish2

“As far as Europe’s situation, in 100 years they WILL be natives there (and Europe will have to deal with that).”

Interesting that Europeans would treat muslims as natice, but historically have always treated Jews as non-natives, even though they were there for thousands of years.

Europe deserves what it gets.

(And no, I am not Jewish.)


47 posted on 12/14/2011 9:24:57 AM PST by TheThirdRuffian (Nothing to see here. Move along.)
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To: TheThirdRuffian

Europe’s treatment of Jews varies from country to country & century to century; some countries have been very accomodating when others wouldn’t. It is impossible to generalize like that; if Europe had been so terrible to them then the Nazis would have had to travel outside of Europe to find them.


48 posted on 12/14/2011 2:30:43 PM PST by kearnyirish2
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