Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Gingrich and the ‘Invented People’
Jewish World Review ^ | 12/12/2012 | Jonathan Tobin

Posted on 12/12/2011 9:22:07 AM PST by Former Fetus

Newt Gingrich is taking a lot of flack for telling a Jewish cable channel that the Palestinians are an "invented people." Those comments were the subject of a lengthy segment of last night's Republican presidential debate and will, no doubt, inspire angry commentary from the pro-Palestinian left as well as concern from others who will say that Gingrich's attitude is unpresidential (as Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum seemed to imply) and will not help the cause of peace.

This leaves us with three questions: Was Gingrich right? If so, what implications should this have for U.S. policy? And even if he was correct, was it wise for him to say it?

>>SNIP<<

it must be said it was refreshing to hear a major American political figure state the truth about the history of the Palestinians and to say the myths they have created have been in service to one goal only: the destruction of Israel

(Excerpt) Read more at jewishworldreview.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: fiction; gingrich; palestine
And it is refreshing to read anywhere that New was right!
1 posted on 12/12/2011 9:22:17 AM PST by Former Fetus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Former Fetus

Newt is right but I’m not sure what his point is. Let’s face it, for 3500 years nobody has had any claim to that land other than by force of arms.


2 posted on 12/12/2011 9:30:54 AM PST by circlecity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Former Fetus
Newt quoted the Ottoman Empire as their origins and that's correct but it is ancient history. On a more modern note, PALESTINE was never a nation-state unto itself. It was a part of Jordan -- kind of like a county in the U.S. The Jordanians agreed to the request of the international community led by the USA and UK to create the state of Israel. So to the extent that the "Palestinians were pushed out" it would be like having to move from one county to the next. An annoyance at most. The Palestinian right of return is nothing more than posturing to get to the single overriding goal of the Arabs in general which is the utter destruction of the State of Israel. This goes back to the days of Pharoah and the Hebrew slaves. How "uppity" of the Jews to do this! Imagine, earning their freedom and then building a seriously KICK A$$ military industrial complex to keep it secure from all enemies, at once. Newt hit it right on the head. The libtards and terrorist apologists are having kniption fits.
3 posted on 12/12/2011 9:32:20 AM PST by ExSoldier ("Life without God is like an unsharpened pencil: It has no point.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Former Fetus
Whats funny about this whole “Palestinian” people problem is that everyone wants Israel to give up more and more land for “Peace”. That Israel should give them land so they have a place to settle. How come all these middle east countries that feel so bad for them never say hey here's some land why not live here in our country. Can you say Hypocrites.
4 posted on 12/12/2011 9:42:19 AM PST by mk2000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Former Fetus
I think Newt is a poor standard bearer for the GOP. He is even more of an establishment politician than Mitt Romney. But he is 100% correct here as Tobin so rightly points out.

. . . many of those who now call themselves Palestinians are the descendants of Arab immigrants into the country from surrounding countries who came to find work that was available when the Jews began to rebuild the land.

Muzzies everywhere seem to want to move to places where the economy is run by infidels. In Malaysia and Indonesia, it is the ethnic Chinese who keep these Muslim countries economically viable. In Saudi Arabia, it is foreigners who pump the oil and keep the infrastructure together. Why do you suppose that is?

5 posted on 12/12/2011 9:43:19 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: circlecity
Throughout human history nobody has had any claim to any land that was recognized by anybody else - OTHER THAN through force of arms.

I ain't giving my house back to any Navajo!

The Turks are not going to go back to Asia.

The Franks are not going to go back to Eastern Europe.

The Normans are not going to go back to Norway.

The Arabs in North Africa are not going to go back to Arabia.

NOT. GOING. TO. HAPPEN.

6 posted on 12/12/2011 9:44:25 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: mk2000
Excellent point. Just for perspective, the Middle East has a land area roughly equal to the entire United States. Israel has a land area roughly equal to Massachusetts.

Where would be the morality if we asked Massachusetts to cede territory in order to gain acceptance of the rest of us?

7 posted on 12/12/2011 9:47:40 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Former Fetus

Will Gingrich recognize the right of Americans to their own country? Obviously, the Dem-RINOs consider Americans to be an invented people since they are intent on making us a minority in our own country through immigration and anti-traditional family policy.


8 posted on 12/12/2011 9:52:51 AM PST by mas cerveza por favor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: circlecity
...."Let’s face it, for 3500 years nobody has had any claim to that land other than by force of arms."....

Nor anywhere else than the ME. We don't have the Apache or Sioux territory because they lost, we won. The Basque are still dreaming of a homeland in Spain, and the Irish, well, you get the picture. Gaza, West Bank, and Golan are all Israel because Israel won. There's no reason to give anything back now. With Gaza shooting rockets daily, why not push them into the ocean? The Gaza lands came from Egypt. They don't seem to want the land back. The Golan Heights cannot be given back for strategic reasons, and the West Bank, well it's the home of Jerusalem and we know what the Bible says about Jerusalem. Before The Israeli wars, the Palestinians were just people that could have been called the desert tribes or the Bedouin tribes. Palestine was like saying the Sahara desert people or the western southwest people. Palestine was an area not a country or a state.

The Indians live on reservations we gave them, not necessarily their ancestors land. The Pals live in Gaza because the Israeli's allow them to.

The only reason any of this is "controversial" is because Gingrich said it. No one is trying to stop Pals from having a state. They just don't get to dictate the terms to the winners.

9 posted on 12/12/2011 9:55:47 AM PST by chuckles
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: allmendream

Unless someone forces them.


10 posted on 12/12/2011 10:06:05 AM PST by circlecity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: chuckles

“They just don’t get to dictate the terms to the winners. “


Winner? It’s not over til it’s over. It’s just a battle in a thousand year war or until, like the Irish, both sides see no point in continuing it.


11 posted on 12/12/2011 10:11:09 AM PST by ex-snook ("above all things, truth beareth away the victory")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: circlecity
LOL.

Yes - if someone forces them - through force of arms - then yes - I suppose they might! ;)

But our points stand - nobody had any claim other than force of arms that anybody was willing to recognize.

Conquest is a perfectly legitimate way to gain territory for your people. Conquest is, in fact, the usual way territory is gained. There is hardly a civilization on Earth that has not at one point moved to their present location and taken it via military conquest.

12 posted on 12/12/2011 10:12:02 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Former Fetus

Peace cannot be built on lies.


13 posted on 12/12/2011 10:15:37 AM PST by Hugin ("Most time a man'll tell you his bad intentions if you listen and let yourself hear"--Open Range)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Former Fetus

The next American president (assuming it’s not Obama, who is hopeless on Isreal) should ask any relevant Palestinian leader if there are any conditions under which he and his people would accept an Isreali state in the Mideast.

If the answer is “no”, or if it is equivocal, we should tell them we can’t take any part in influencing Isreal to make concessions, or even participate in peace talks as long as the Palestinians maintain that position.


14 posted on 12/12/2011 10:22:19 AM PST by Stosh
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Former Fetus

Good information here to back Newt’s statement.
http://www.peacefaq.com/palestinians.html


15 posted on 12/12/2011 10:27:33 AM PST by sanjuanbob (Festina Lente)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mk2000
How come all these middle east countries that feel so bad for them never say hey here's some land why not live here in our country. Can you say Hypocrites.

Actually, any place they've been has forcefully kicked them out in order to survive (look up Jordan and "Black September," the events from which the terrorist group took their name). Those places that didn't kick them out... The Gaza strip after Israel pulled out and Lebanon (Beirut in particular) have been destroyed.

The so called palis have been groomed to be used as cannon fodder against Israel, both towards the destruction of Israel AND as a scapegoat for the arab and muslim populace for their miserable existence at the hands of their rulers. Sort of an "Emmanuel Goldstein" sort of thing.

Mark

16 posted on 12/12/2011 11:08:37 AM PST by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Former Fetus

Right up to a point, but then the author used a double fallacy.

“That said, it must be conceded that even if the Palestinians did invent themselves in the last 100 years, it is pointless to deny they do exist now.”

This is incorrect. The Palestinians DO NOT exist as a people. If anything, they are Jordanian Arabs, since there are more Palestinians in Jordan than there are the ruling Bedouins, and twice as many as dwell in Israel. Add to this, that they do not have anything in the “territories” that passes for a serviceable government that abides by any international norms.

“Millions consider themselves to be part of a distinct Palestinian people with a common history and destiny. The United States and Israel both understand that their desire for self-rule must be accommodated so long as it does not infringe on the rights and security of Israel.”

Wrong again. From the American point of view, this is like the “Aztlan” argument. Even though between legal Mexican Americans and illegal aliens, these 20 million might *want* to have self rule in the American southwest, they do not have any *right* to self rule, because it *inherently* violates the rights and security of the United States.

There is no Aztlan, as there is no Palestine.

The Palestinians exist *only* because of the bad judgment of the Israelis in *not* kicking out a hostile, alien people, whose foreign allies have tried several times to destroy Israel with aggressive war.

No other country on Earth would tolerate such mischief from a disloyal minority. And this, oddly enough, is why Israel has become a pariah nation. Because it has *refused* to do what is necessary to defend its own “rights and security”, instead relying on hopes, wishful thinking, and blather to try and neutralize a serious threat.

As such, Israel annoys the rest of the world, because it refuses to deal with its own problems.


17 posted on 12/12/2011 11:17:26 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ExSoldier

Only to Americans with a truncated sense of history (that for all too many seems to reach no further back than WW II) is an empire that collapsed in 1920 “ancient history”. And folks in the Middle East, whether Christian, Muslim or Jewish, still regard historical events that are what most scholars would call “ancient history” or at least “early medieval history” as very much real and important to the politics and culture of the day — the Jews base their land claims on events recorded in the Bible, the Muslims on conquests in the seventh century. Though as you point out the Israeli claim to their lands is based at a practical level on what use to be called “right of conquest”.


18 posted on 12/12/2011 11:50:26 AM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Who are the “palestinians” in jordan and how are they different than jordanians?

Anybody: what is the historical use of Palestine before the Ottoman empire. Did the Romans call the area Palestine and what is the source of the word? Did they call everyone in the territory Palistinians or Jews or what?


19 posted on 12/12/2011 12:00:46 PM PST by morphing libertarian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Stosh
... should ask any relevant Palestinian leader if there are any conditions under which he and his people would accept an Isreali Jewish state in the Mideast.

Of course, we all know the answer to that!

20 posted on 12/12/2011 12:08:16 PM PST by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: chuckles
and the West Bank, well it's the home of Jerusalem and we know what the Bible says about Jerusalem.

Since neither the Jews nor the Muslims are adherents to the Bible, what's that got to do with anything?

21 posted on 12/12/2011 12:23:06 PM PST by newzjunkey (Republicans will find a way to reelect Obama and Speaker Pelosi.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: morphing libertarian
Find a history book or read one of the related articles.

This flap Newt has created is red meat pandering--aimed at evangelicals, I suspect--with no positive affect on the so-called peace process. The people of the United States are an "invented people." So what? He's still advocating a two state solution. This is a distraction.

22 posted on 12/12/2011 12:28:57 PM PST by newzjunkey (Republicans will find a way to reelect Obama and Speaker Pelosi.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: newzjunkey
This flap Newt has created is red meat pandering--aimed at evangelicals, I suspect--with no positive affect on the so-called peace process.

What Newt said about Palestine is 100% true. The so-called Palestinians are mostly Arabs who were refused entry to surrounding Arab states during the earliest Arab attacks on Israel or who left Israel and were kept on its border as refugees for political purposes of the largely Arab states surrounding Israel. Jordan comprises 2/3 of Palestine, yet the ruling class is a tiny minority compared to the general Arab population of Jordan, which they've screwed over since the beginning. There is a two state solution, one that has been around since Palestine was to be partitioned by the U.N. in the late 1940s. West of the Jordan River is Israel. East of the Jordan River is Jordan for the non-Israeli "Palestinians" or those who don't want to remain in Israel. See From Time Immemorial by Joan Peters. The Arabs jumped the gun and attacked Israel before the U.N. vote and grabbed the West Bank which they later lost in the course of another attack on Israel in 1967, boo hoo.
23 posted on 12/12/2011 12:44:51 PM PST by aruanan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: circlecity
Newt is right but I’m not sure what his point is. Let’s face it, for 3500 years nobody has had any claim to that land other than by force of arms.

Well, the Jewish settlers in the late 19th century bought their land and worked it to a very high level of productivity. They also paid better wages than any of the Arabs that had farms there, not that many did, and attracted a large influx of mostly Arabs into the region because of the employment.
24 posted on 12/12/2011 1:05:58 PM PST by aruanan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ExSoldier; Former Fetus
Newt quoted the Ottoman Empire as their origins and that's correct but it is ancient history. On a more modern note, PALESTINE was never a nation-state unto itself. It was a part of Jordan -- kind of like a county in the U.S.

The Ottoman Empire ended two years after my father was born. That's not "ancient history." In 1922 the British Palestinian Mandate was divided into two potions: Palestine and Transjordan. Palestine was not "part of Jordan." The region of Palestine remained under direct British rule. Transjordan was under the autonomous control of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan established at that time.
25 posted on 12/12/2011 1:34:02 PM PST by aruanan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: newzjunkey
The Jews are not adherents to the Bible? They wrote it!

Good grief!

Maybe you should read the part where God gave the land to the Jews. Half of the Bible is centered on Jerusalem. Do you remember the land of "milk and honey"?

Start around Exodus and go from there.

26 posted on 12/12/2011 11:10:56 PM PST by chuckles
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson