Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Last F-22 Raptor Rolls Off Assembly Line
FoxNews.com ^ | 12/13/11 | Jonathan Serrie

Posted on 12/13/2011 4:00:17 PM PST by ColdOne

MARIETTA, Ga. – The final F-22 Raptor fighter jet rolled off the assembly line during a ceremony at the Lockheed Martin aircraft plant at Dobbins Air Reserve Base. The product line is being replaced by the less costly F-35 Joint Strike Fighter as concerns arose in Washington that the $153 million F-22 was too costly and too high-tech for its own good.

Although foreign governments have expressed interest in purchasing the F-22, Congress banned its sale overseas out of concerns that the technology it carries is too sensitive to share.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: aerospace; f22; raptor

1 posted on 12/13/2011 4:00:19 PM PST by ColdOne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: ColdOne

Missing from the story - how many were originally planned, and how many were actually built.


2 posted on 12/13/2011 4:03:38 PM PST by null and void (Day 1057 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ColdOne

I don’t care about the overseas sales.. but for the USA to stop producing them.. it is a BIG mistake :/


3 posted on 12/13/2011 4:05:34 PM PST by Bikkuri
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ColdOne

Although foreign governments have expressed interest in purchasing the F-22, Congress banned its sale overseas out of concerns that the technology it carries is too sensitive to share.”

But we’ll leave the drone in the hands of Iran...oh Doctahhhh.


4 posted on 12/13/2011 4:09:07 PM PST by jessduntno (The Republican elite hates him, Rove hates him, Boehner hates him, liberals hate him. It's Newt!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: null and void
bingo... price per goes up as the number made goes down!!!
5 posted on 12/13/2011 4:09:53 PM PST by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: null and void
+1...The most important part is missing.

Was 400 or something intially as I recall, then cut to 175...Does anyone know exactly ?

6 posted on 12/13/2011 4:10:28 PM PST by SENTINEL (Romney is to Conservatism what Mormonism is to Christianity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: null and void

...from over 700 to around 60


7 posted on 12/13/2011 4:13:28 PM PST by Doogle (((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated)))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ColdOne

I think the F-35 will suffer the same fate.


8 posted on 12/13/2011 4:14:32 PM PST by MontaniSemperLiberi (Moutaineers are Always Free)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Doogle

Wikipedia says 181 built.


9 posted on 12/13/2011 4:15:02 PM PST by SENTINEL (Romney is to Conservatism what Mormonism is to Christianity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: jessduntno

Exactly why I cut of the article at that point! To see who would notice that


10 posted on 12/13/2011 4:17:14 PM PST by ColdOne (I miss my poochie... Tasha 2000~3/14/11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: jessduntno

of=off


11 posted on 12/13/2011 4:18:20 PM PST by ColdOne (I miss my poochie... Tasha 2000~3/14/11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: ColdOne
Congress banned its sale overseas out of concerns that the technology it carries is too sensitive to share.

I wonder how much of that high tech is still secure now that Iran has a fully operational copy of our most sophisticated stealth drone.

12 posted on 12/13/2011 4:23:26 PM PST by Ronin (If we were serious about using the death penalty as a deterrent, we would bring back public hangings)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ronin
"I wonder how much of that high tech is still secure now that Iran has a fully operational copy of our most sophisticated stealth drone."

Well at least they didn't get hold of our latest cockpit seating and cupholder technology!

13 posted on 12/13/2011 4:27:03 PM PST by who_would_fardels_bear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: null and void

Also left out of the story is what it would cost to buy an F-15C (if you could buy one) in “today’s dollars”. The currency has been so debased that the Eagle would probably be well over 100 million per copy.


14 posted on 12/13/2011 4:27:29 PM PST by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ColdOne

So, throwing Billions at non-existant “Shovel Ready” jobs is a good use of taxpayer dollars, and cutting national defence contracts on state of the art aircraft, thus causing the layoffs of thousands of technicians, logistics and engineering jobs is something that is a smart thing to do.

I know that Zero is incapable of thinking beyond his next vacation or basketball game; but the skins on these types of aircraft are ‘special’. You don’t develop the skills to make this sort of material overnight, or in a vo-tech school. Those people who developed this ‘art’ are now out of a job, and will have to find a job doing something else. Re-starting production on something like this, isn’t just throwing a switch and saying “Ok, make more”.


15 posted on 12/13/2011 4:27:39 PM PST by Hodar ( Who needs laws; when this FEELS so right?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Doogle

Roughly 2 combat wings, plus some spares for training. That’s a little more than 60 units, but still way to few.


16 posted on 12/13/2011 4:29:10 PM PST by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: null and void

187, http://www.f-22raptor.com/news_view.php?nid=415


17 posted on 12/13/2011 4:33:58 PM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Newt, Willard, Perry and his fellow supporters)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: MontaniSemperLiberi

>>I think the F-35 will suffer the same fate.<<

The F-35 is the perfect example of a camel: a mouse built to government specifications.

It was a great idea completely ruined by scope creep and political gesturing.

It can’t even match up well against the new generation F-16 and F-18s it is supposed to replace (certainly not by price point) and never held a candle to the F-22.

The USA has a great desire to just NOT be the leader in military technology. The Chinese already have a version of the F-22 that at least matched it for the most part. By mothballing the F-22 we at the very least are in 2nd place (and 3rd if you believe the rumors about a Ruski version).


18 posted on 12/13/2011 4:35:37 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Spoiler Alert! The secret to Terra Nova: THEY ARE ALL DEAD!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: ColdOne

BTTT


19 posted on 12/13/2011 4:36:40 PM PST by Jet Jaguar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ColdOne

Soon to be used in controlling public revolts in the U.S.


20 posted on 12/13/2011 4:36:49 PM PST by Deagle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: org.whodat
Another source says only 108 operational, several have bought the farm.
21 posted on 12/13/2011 4:37:14 PM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Newt, Willard, Perry and his fellow supporters)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: ColdOne

The product line is being replaced by the less costly F-35 Joint Strike Fighter as concerns arose in Washington that the $153 million F-22 was too costly and too high-tech for its own good.

Cost estimates for the F-35 have risen to $382 billion for 2,443 aircraft, at an average of $156 million each.

Only in Congress is a $156m aircraft les costly then a $153m aircraft.

Both aircraft are useless..


22 posted on 12/13/2011 4:40:00 PM PST by maddog55 (OBAMA: Why stupid people shouldn't vote.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hodar

If the people who made and flew these aircraft were reliably Democrat voters, he’s put one in every Christmas stocking in America.

However, since servicemembers are normally Conservative by nature (not always but usually) he could care less.


23 posted on 12/13/2011 4:41:00 PM PST by Ronin (If we were serious about using the death penalty as a deterrent, we would bring back public hangings)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: maddog55

Great catch! I didn’t notice that.


24 posted on 12/13/2011 4:41:26 PM PST by ColdOne (I miss my poochie... Tasha 2000~3/14/11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: freedumb2003
It is really hard for a lot of people to grasp, but missile technology has surpassed the ability of a manned jet to live on a battle field of equals. And the time over target and cost is out of the world compared to a drone. When you have the ability to kill a missile with a missile, a slow moving jet has no chance.
25 posted on 12/13/2011 4:46:24 PM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Newt, Willard, Perry and his fellow supporters)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: freedumb2003
"It can’t even match up well against the new generation F-16 and F-18s it is supposed to replace "

That statement is at least misleading.

The F-35 can take any aircraft in the sky except the F-22.

It has superior radar, Fire Control, data links to other aircraft...etc.

It's nearly invisible to any radar on the F-15C or any version of the F-16.

Now, if your measure is dollars per G-force or Mach rating...may as well buy Russian or Chinese. They beat the F-22 in those immaterial ratings with their most advanced airframes.

The F-35 ALSO has the ability to control and manage un-manned fighter drones via the datalink in it's radar package.

Lemme see: Put up a squadron of F-35s with 4 drones apiece, flying at Mach 1.2...cruising....35,000ft. Not seen by ground radar or AWACS...certainly not visible to airborne radar of their opponents until AFTER missile release.

Against 4 squadrons of F-16 or any F-18/F-15 variant and you tell us, who will win?

26 posted on 12/13/2011 4:47:04 PM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: maddog55

Current cost is $186 million each, and $ 64,000 an hour operating expense.


27 posted on 12/13/2011 4:48:27 PM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Newt, Willard, Perry and his fellow supporters)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Mariner

>>The F-35 can take any aircraft in the sky except the F-22.<<

You are speaking of the one they wanted not the one they got. The F-35 project has been rife with falling well short of expectations.

I haven’t seen any head to head reports but everything I have read says the new generation F-16s and F-18s have been close to a match.

You both understate the abilities of the F-16/18s (and the price points) and way overstate the deployed capabilities of the F-35. The one they are trying to deploy is a brick with wings.

Whether there is any point to manned jets at all is a discussion that would be interesting, but on another thread.


28 posted on 12/13/2011 4:54:27 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Spoiler Alert! The secret to Terra Nova: THEY ARE ALL DEAD!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Mariner

>>The F-35 can take any aircraft in the sky except the F-22.<<

You are speaking of the one they wanted not the one they got. The F-35 project has been rife with falling well short of expectations.

I haven’t seen any head to head reports but everything I have read says the new generation F-16s and F-18s have been close to a match.

You both understate the abilities of the F-16/18s (and the price points) and way overstate the DEPLOYED capabilities of the F-35. The one they are trying to deploy is a brick with wings.

Whether there is any point to manned jets at all is a discussion that would be interesting, but on another thread.


29 posted on 12/13/2011 4:54:50 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Spoiler Alert! The secret to Terra Nova: THEY ARE ALL DEAD!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: freedumb2003

“It can’t even match up well against the new generation F-16 and F-18s it is supposed to replace”

Do you mean in terms of payload and range, etc. or in metal on target capability?


30 posted on 12/13/2011 4:59:51 PM PST by MontaniSemperLiberi (Moutaineers are Always Free)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: ColdOne

This is a bad decision made for the wrong reasons.


31 posted on 12/13/2011 5:01:23 PM PST by 2nd Bn, 11th Mar (The "p" in Democrat stands for patriotism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SENTINEL
Was 400 or something intially as I recall, then cut to 175...Does anyone know exactly ?

From a similar story about the last Raptor rolling off the line by Stephen Trimble's Dew Line:

Lockheed rolled out F-22 tail number 4001 in April 1997, the first of nine flight test aircraft. Development delays and cost overruns forced the USAF to reduce the original 750-aircraft programme to about 330 by 2000. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumseld trimmed the final number in 2006 to 187, and two aircraft have since been lost to crashes.

32 posted on 12/13/2011 5:05:54 PM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Ronin

Congress banned its sale overseas out of concerns that the technology it carries is too sensitive to share.
I wonder how much of that high tech is still secure now that Iran has a fully operational copy of our most sophisticated stealth drone.

***

It should have had a cruise missile sent after it, or a laser guided bomb.


33 posted on 12/13/2011 5:28:22 PM PST by ROTB (Christian sin breeds enemies for the USA. If you're a Christian, stop sinning, and spread the Word..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: ROTB

If we had a President with balls, he would have done that first.

If the Iranians had gotten it undercover before we could get to that point, he would have said, “Give it back or we will destroy it in place — and if we can’t be sure where it is, we will destroy every place we think it MIGHT be.”

But that would require having a President who is actually an American.

I swear, the next time, the VERY NEXT TIME, I meet a confessed Obama voter, I am going to punch him/her right in the mouth.


34 posted on 12/13/2011 5:44:57 PM PST by Ronin (If we were serious about using the death penalty as a deterrent, we would bring back public hangings)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: SENTINEL

There are several less now due to crashes.


35 posted on 12/13/2011 5:59:05 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: freedumb2003
"You both understate the abilities of the F-16/18s (and the price points) and way overstate the DEPLOYED capabilities of the F-35. The one they are trying to deploy is a brick with wings."

Thank you for your respectful and informative response.

The current generation of F-15, F-16 and F-18 variants are STILL the best birds up when compared to any non-US aircraft. But it's not necessarily their flight parameters that make them the best.

As is WELL KNOWN the F-15C has never been beat by any aircraft, ever. Nobody wants to tangle with it now and even "5th Generation" fighters from other countries can't beat it. To top it off we have about 400 of them...and another 300 or so F-15E coming online.

Problem with the C's is that they were all built by 1990 or so. The airframes are a little creaky.

I would not be opposed to building another 300 of the C's...new airframes. Make the easy, modern upgrades in controls, engines, materials, avionics and weapons.

Thing is, they'd likely be $150mil aircraft.

As for the F-35.

Yes, it was SUPPOSED to be faster, with greater range and payload than how it ended up.

But it's "almost stealth" characteristics and state-of-the-art avionics/weapons/controls makes it a suitable replacement for the F-16, with this exception:

They cost too much.

We need to build 3,000 combat aircraft in the next 15 years. Almost ANY existing airframe will do.

Most of the high danger business will be done by drones...under the DIRECT AND IMMEDIATE control of the weapons officer within 10 years.

36 posted on 12/13/2011 6:45:52 PM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Mariner; Jet Jaguar

>>But it’s “almost stealth” characteristics and state-of-the-art avionics/weapons/controls makes it a suitable replacement for the F-16, with this exception:

They cost too much.<<

Sounds like we have been following similarly and come up with similar conclusions. Sorry if I was a bit glib.

I did mention price point, but emphasizing it as you did is really where the bat hits the ball (the bug hits the windshield?).

As I said upthread, the future of drones vs. manned aircraft now and into the future will be a fascinating series of conversations/threads — just not one for now.

Late F-35 ping, Jet.


37 posted on 12/13/2011 6:58:28 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Spoiler Alert! The secret to Terra Nova: THEY ARE ALL DEAD!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: org.whodat
It is really hard for a lot of people to grasp, but missile technology has surpassed the ability of a manned jet to live on a battle field of equals.

I seem to remember the same thing being said around 1965 or so. Even the Air Force and Navy believed it to the extent that they deliberately left a gun out of the original versions of the F-4 Phantom.

The same sort of "it's useless" crap was said about the F-15 and F-16 in their early days, by folks of the same political stripes that are saying it about the -22 and -35 today.

38 posted on 12/13/2011 7:07:03 PM PST by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: El Gato
The next time they need a practice target for a patriot test you volunteer to ride the target.
39 posted on 12/13/2011 9:04:42 PM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Newt, Willard, Perry and his fellow supporters)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: org.whodat
The next time they need a practice target for a patriot test you volunteer to ride the target.

Long as I get to pick the pilot and carry a full complement of EW/Jamming gear, plus ARMs.

But you have to be at the Patriot site when I have 'em let the ARM's go.

40 posted on 12/14/2011 8:35:46 PM PST by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: El Gato

That would work.


41 posted on 12/14/2011 9:15:35 PM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Newt, Willard, Perry and his fellow supporters)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson