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Bless the Beasts (Should conservatives care about animal suffering?)
National Review ^ | 12/16/2011 | Claire Berlinski

Posted on 12/16/2011 7:29:56 AM PST by SeekAndFind

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1 posted on 12/16/2011 7:29:59 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”

- Mohandas Gandhi


2 posted on 12/16/2011 7:33:13 AM PST by americanophile ("this absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, is a rotting corpse which poisons our lives" - Ataturk)
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To: SeekAndFind
I care about animals, the environment and many things. But human suffering is the most important to me. Millions are without jobs and being driven out of their homes. Whole families are being thrown out on the streets.

I personal have felt this problem and know many who are suffering it now.

So when people tell me to care about something else more. Well, you can guess what I think.

3 posted on 12/16/2011 7:35:38 AM PST by sr4402
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To: SeekAndFind

OMG.. what a horrible title. I would hope animal suffering did not have a political divide! I would hope all people abhorred any animal suffering....ugh.


4 posted on 12/16/2011 7:36:40 AM PST by Fawn (NEWT FOR PRESIDENT 2012~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: SeekAndFind

Sorry, I don’t buy her premise that Conservatives are “indifferent” to animal abuse. If you’re an animal abuser, you’re scum. End of story. That’s a whole deal different from being a meateater. What has gotten into the National Review lately?


5 posted on 12/16/2011 7:37:21 AM PST by ponygirl
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To: AnAmericanMother; Titan Magroyne; Badeye; Shannon; SandRat; arbooz; potlatch; ...
WOOOF!

The Doggie Ping list is for FReepers who would like to be notified of threads relating to all things canid. If you would like to join the Doggie Ping Pack (or be unleashed from it), FReemail me.

6 posted on 12/16/2011 7:38:17 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: SeekAndFind
Animal abuse happens in many ways...case in point - Tucson, Arizona:

To Whom It May Concern,

I recently learned of the possible separation of the two elephants at Reid Park Zoo in order to complete the transfer of a small herd of African elephants currently residing at the San Diego Safari Park(formerly the San Diego Wild Animal Park) to the Reid Park Zoo to begin a breeding program. I worked at the Wild Animal Park as an elephant trainer/keeper for approximately four and one-half years in the mid-eighties working with both the African and Asian herds. I also received my degree in Psychology from San Diego State University. Separating the elephants at Reid Park after approximately thirty years of companionship is both cruel and at the very least bordering on animal abuse. It also shows the obvious lack of knowledge concerning elephant psychology and social structure and the resulting emotional trauma they will go through. I was able to witness first-hand the result of this standard behavior between zoos. In 2003, the last three African elephants that I worked with in San Diego, were transferred from their home of over twenty-five years to the sometimes bitter cold and cramped quarters of the Lincoln Park Zoo in Chicago in order to provide a home for the newly acquired African herd for which the San Diego Zoological Society paid millions to acquire. In just over approximately one and on-half years all three were dead. It was sad to go there weekly and slowly watch them die. Psychological trauma is just as debilitating as physical trauma and any "expert" who tells you differently is lying or just lacking in knowledge. If the Reid Park Zoo continues to proceed with this transfer, I predict that at least one or both of the elephants will die within a short period of time. I urge you to reconsider. The negative response from the public after what tragically happened at the Lincoln Park Zoo was tremendous, resulting in the Zoo formally announcing that they would never house elephants again. The public is much wiser these days and I trust that you will listen to them.

Regards,
x.x. Ryan

The San Diego Zoo is equally guilty in this utter abuse of animals.

7 posted on 12/16/2011 7:39:31 AM PST by yoe
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To: SeekAndFind
Does a dog instinctively love humans ... or does he learn to ?

As I understand it ... animals have no soul, thus no "God conciousness".

So what we interpret with those puppy dog eyes as love is something more associated with feeding and ease rather than an inate love for another kind.

Animals suffer because they know (by learning) to suffer.

Isn't animal suffering more a human problem, i.e. .. a cruel human?

And what are the percentages ?

God gave us animals to eat after the flood, so I think factory chickens and etcetera's are just an efficient way to feed a lot of people ...

Unless that's the hidden agenda ...

Too many people ...get rid of humans.

8 posted on 12/16/2011 7:39:31 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: sr4402
So when people tell me to care about something else more. Well, you can guess what I think

In any event, I’ve not yet noticed that anyone who cares for animals is diminished in his capacity to care for humans. To the contrary, in fact. Surely our compassion is not in such finite supply that we must measure it out in teaspoons lest there be none left.

9 posted on 12/16/2011 7:39:31 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: sr4402

Exactly. I love animals too and I certainly would not want to see an animal being tormented for the amusement of the person tormenting it. However, if an animal suffers in drug experiments or because we are killing it for food or some other legitimate purpose to help humans, then let it suffer. An animal is not a person. If we take our religion seriously, it does not have a soul. We need to keep our priorities straight.


10 posted on 12/16/2011 7:41:07 AM PST by Opinionated Blowhard ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
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To: SeekAndFind

“As for laboratory animals, I’m willing to leave the moral gray area as a gray area and concentrate on the obvious abuses. Only the obtuse would endorse torturing primates, for example, to do research that serves no higher purpose than to put out a paper no one will ever read establishing for the 50th time that primates don’t seem to like being tortured. I’m more willing to accept sport hunting and medical research on certain animals, under limited circumstances, than I am factory farming. The way the animals are cared for is important, as is the point of the research. That the answers to these questions are difficult, and that our principles come into conflict, does not mean we should shrug at the questions or say that they do not exist.”

Perhaps the best summary I’ve seen on the question. On the whole, an extremely well-reasoned combination of compassion, realism and spiritual component.


11 posted on 12/16/2011 7:41:54 AM PST by jagusafr ("We hold these truths to be self-evident...")
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To: SeekAndFind

Animal protection is not an issue than can be characterized as conservative or liberal. Just like social issues as a whole are not conservative or liberal, although the “progressive” mantra is that all conservatives are hard hearted. There is nothing conservative or liberal about a budget.

The place to start cutting is not with the weakest and most hapless, don’t cut the social programs and unemployment and animal protection. Fund these programs, they are part of providing for the genera welfare.

Cut graft, corruption, waste, corporate and farm subsidies, the post office, which obviously can’t figure out how to run itself and has become obsolete is a perfect example. Business will bounce back and figure it out. This health care “reform” is actually “deformed” and is adding expenses. Look to the true evils.


12 posted on 12/16/2011 7:43:10 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: SeekAndFind
This is disguised as heading giving animals the same rights as humans, which sounds Walt Disney sweet.

But it's not about that.

It's about lowering humans to the same level as animals.

That way, if at some point you decide there are too many of them, you can dispose of them.

13 posted on 12/16/2011 7:43:42 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (FOREIGN AID: A transfer of money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries)
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To: SeekAndFind

Cruelity against animals in time leads to cruelity against humans.


14 posted on 12/16/2011 7:43:42 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: All

I’m a Conservative.
I am pro hunting and fishing and abhor animal cruelty.
A real hunter embraces the concept of “one shot one kill”, which is to say, they try their best to kill their prey immediately.
BTW, it was a portion of the Democrats base that wanted people to get off Mike Vick’s back because “they was just dogs”.


15 posted on 12/16/2011 7:45:26 AM PST by Maverick68
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To: sr4402
"But human suffering is the most important to me."

I'm not trying to rebut or refute what you say, but it's my opinion that many people's callousness and lack of sympathy for their fellow man may grow from, or be galvanized by cruelty to animals.

This is certainly an established principle for many serial killers who "graduate" from animal torture to human depravity. I would not expect a person who is perfectly comfortable kicking a non-threatening dog or throwing a cat into traffic to have a lot of sympathy for their fellow human being, so animal and human suffering may not always be as separate as you seem to think they are.

"If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men."

~ St. Francis Assissi

16 posted on 12/16/2011 7:45:58 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
This is disguised as heading giving animals the same rights as humans, which sounds Walt Disney sweet.


17 posted on 12/16/2011 7:47:19 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: knarf

Knarf

Too many humans? Really? God wants bodies for souls, He has made the earth which can sustain human life. It is not fun here, but necessary for salvation and redemption.


18 posted on 12/16/2011 7:47:19 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: SeekAndFind

We are to be stewards of the earth, of course we should care about the treatment of animals and the environment.
God gave us animals to use not abuse.
He gave us the earth to use not abuse.
Our primary (after our relationship with God) concern however should be towards each other.


19 posted on 12/16/2011 7:48:14 AM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: Opinionated Blowhard

“Let it suffer”? That turns my stomach. We do not need to do animal testing that causes suffering.


20 posted on 12/16/2011 7:48:27 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: knarf
Great books:

Wagging Tails In Heaven: The Gift Of Our Pets Everlasting Love

Cold Noses At The Pearly Gates

...with Biblical references....

21 posted on 12/16/2011 7:49:05 AM PST by Fawn (NEWT FOR PRESIDENT 2012~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: svcw

I work in the environmental field, so I see all too often who sick and twisted environmentalism is at the up close level. You, FRiend, see how right and important conservationism is - and bless you for it. Hopefully more will see the light.


22 posted on 12/16/2011 7:51:04 AM PST by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: Joe 6-pack

Very good post. I also immediately thought of St. Francis.

In addition, I reject the title (at top of thread) because it assumes that conservatives do not care about animal suffering. RIDICULOUS!

The same type of lie about conservatives not caring about the poor is being deliberately promulgated by the left.

It’s way past time to strongly refute this nonsense via intelligent PR campaigns! ....particularly before the election!


23 posted on 12/16/2011 7:53:16 AM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: Hegewisch Dupa

“I see all too often who sick and twisted environmentalism is” - makes (mildly) more sense if ‘who’ = “how”


24 posted on 12/16/2011 7:53:22 AM PST by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: yldstrk
I think you misunderstood ...

I meant that the underlying motivation of animal rights people could be the desire to have less humans (less cruelty to animals)

Either that ... or I'm misunderstanding your reply.

25 posted on 12/16/2011 7:53:22 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: SeekAndFind

God put animals here for three reasons: To feed us, to do our work, and to entertain us. If you deliberately mistreat them, they don’t taste as good, don’t work as hard, and terrorize rather than entertain.


26 posted on 12/16/2011 7:54:03 AM PST by South Hawthorne (In Memory of my dear Friend Henry Lee II)
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To: SeekAndFind

Numbers 22 (KJV) gives an indication of what G*D thinks of people who abuse animals(or ANY weaker being).


27 posted on 12/16/2011 7:54:31 AM PST by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: US Navy Vet

Exactly - I can’t see a Higher Being who created us lowly life forms being all that impressed if we in turn mistreat even lower life forms He gave us.


28 posted on 12/16/2011 7:58:24 AM PST by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: americanophile

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”

- Mohandas Gandhi

_________________________

Makes me wonder how India ranks among his “greatness” scale based on this quote. How about America?


29 posted on 12/16/2011 7:58:43 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: Owl_Eagle

You speak with the wisdom of the first half of your name, and the sight of the second


30 posted on 12/16/2011 8:00:26 AM PST by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: knarf

Oh, I didn’t understand that your comment was supposed to be what the liberals were doing......


31 posted on 12/16/2011 8:00:48 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Fawn

Define “suffering”, some would say separating a dog or cat from its’ mother to make it a household pet, constitutes “suffering.”


32 posted on 12/16/2011 8:03:44 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: 1rudeboy

33 posted on 12/16/2011 8:04:06 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (FOREIGN AID: A transfer of money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries)
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To: US Navy Vet

Being conservative has nothing to do with treatment of animals. Believing in euthenasia whether animals or humans is a domain for liberals. I’m as conservative as they come, and have a new companion dog, after I spent a month carrying my dying friend in and out of the house, and it was a 70-pound German Shepherd, not a lap dog. I grew up on a horse tending cattle and was always taught that the animals all got fed and watered before we ate, and I still do that to this day. A lib would have taken her to the vet and killed her rather than go to the trouble of caring for her, and considered themselves superior for having done so. They always want someone else to do their dirty work, the meat they eat doesn’t come from animals, it comes from the store in other words. The leather on their shoes doesn’t come from a cow, but from the store. They are removed from reality in every way.


34 posted on 12/16/2011 8:06:48 AM PST by nobamanomore
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To: yldstrk
don’t cut the social programs

Government social programs in the long-run, hurt the poor, more than help.

35 posted on 12/16/2011 8:06:48 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: SeekAndFind; Slings and Arrows; Glenn; republicangel; Beaker; BADROTOFINGER; etabeta; ...

36 posted on 12/16/2011 8:08:47 AM PST by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: dfwgator

Why do you want to parse it? I just hope when you see it, you recognize it and follow your conscience...


37 posted on 12/16/2011 8:11:22 AM PST by Fawn (NEWT FOR PRESIDENT 2012~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: SeekAndFind

I love animals and cannot bear to see them suffer.


38 posted on 12/16/2011 8:12:04 AM PST by patriot08 (TEXAS GAL- born and bred and proud of it!)
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To: americanophile

We have free range chickens that are very happy. We love them and treat them well. They provide us with entertainment and a daily basket of eggs. We give thanks to God for this blessing. When in the course of their life it becomes time to give their life so that we can eat them then that is what happens. This is not cruel, it is life. We will give thanks for each chicken and carry on another day.


39 posted on 12/16/2011 8:12:04 AM PST by gcraig (Freedom isn't free)
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To: americanophile

We have free range chickens that are very happy. We love them and treat them well. They provide us with entertainment and a daily basket of eggs. We give thanks to God for this blessing. When in the course of their life it becomes time to give their life so that we can eat them then that is what happens. This is not cruel, it is life. We will give thanks for each chicken and carry on another day.


40 posted on 12/16/2011 8:12:30 AM PST by gcraig (Freedom isn't free)
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To: SeekAndFind
Stupid article, written by a liberal nut.

Anti-hunting, anti-farming, liberal BS!

41 posted on 12/16/2011 8:13:12 AM PST by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: dfwgator

sez you. Do you think it better to have people living in tent cities. I think Christian values would help. Where is your Christian concern for others? hating the poor is not appropriate. It is really a matter of “there but for the grace of God go I.” In a bad economy, hating the poor is especially hard hearted.


42 posted on 12/16/2011 8:13:43 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Fawn

I certainly recognize it, my point is there are others who expand their definition of it, as with a lot of other things, to infringe on our rights.


43 posted on 12/16/2011 8:13:52 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: SeekAndFind

Should liberals?


44 posted on 12/16/2011 8:14:17 AM PST by onedoug (lf)
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To: yoe

Ryan

I hate zoos for reasons like you have stated. Separating elephants after 30 years together, sick, cruel. Sending elephants to a hideous place like Chicago so they can freeze? sick, cruel.


45 posted on 12/16/2011 8:15:51 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: yldstrk

I have concern for others, in fact, by making Government the conduit for human compassion, takes away that responsibility from the rest of us....most people consider paying their taxes as “giving at the office” as far as helping the poor.


46 posted on 12/16/2011 8:16:31 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: Slings and Arrows
No, but when spiders walk across the floor, this kitty has a problem with them:

Photobucket

47 posted on 12/16/2011 8:18:57 AM PST by SkyDancer ("If You Want To Learn To Love Better, You Should Start With A Friend Who You Hate")
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To: SeekAndFind

“Should conservatives care about animal suffering?”

Only if it makes them more tender.


48 posted on 12/16/2011 8:23:54 AM PST by AppyPappy (If you really want to annoy someone, point out something obvious that they are trying hard to ignore)
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To: 1rudeboy

The more you love, the more you can love — and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.
Heinlein


49 posted on 12/16/2011 8:26:43 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: SeekAndFind
I've not yet noticed that anyone who cares for animals is diminished in his capacity to care for humans.

Caring for the welfare of animals does not imply a lack of care for humans, but nor should it lead one to presume the opposite. Up to the moment he tested his cyanide capsules on the poor beast Adolph Hitler absolutely loved his dog.

And one noticeable theme of today's watermelon Green movement is that while adoring (in a pagan religious sense) nature they openly advocate the elimination of mankind (except, of course, their enlightened selves) from the face of Mother Gaia. Show me a radical Green and I'll show you the perfect little Fascist.

50 posted on 12/16/2011 8:28:55 AM PST by katana (Just my opinions)
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