Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Paterno 'knew' about child abuse
Yahoo ^ | 12/16/11

Posted on 12/16/2011 9:00:22 PM PST by Libloather

Paterno 'knew' about child abuse
AFP – 3 hrs ago

Former Penn State University American football coach Joe Paterno knew his assistant Jerry Sandusky had been seen molesting a child, grand jury testimony said on Friday.

Paterno's testimony was read in court during a preliminary hearing for two senior university officials accused of lying to a grand jury about what they were told of an incident of alleged child sex abuse by Sandusky.

At the conclusion of the hearing, Judge William C. Wenner ruled that prosecutors have enough evidence to send their cases against Penn State team officials Tim Curley and Gary Schultz to a trial.

The two are facing charges they lied about and failed to report the alleged sexual assault. Both had testified before an earlier grand jury that they did not think a crime had been committed.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abuse; child; childabuse; crime; football; homosexualagenda; liberalism; liberals; pa; paterno; pennstate; sandusky; sexualabuse
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-111 next last
This story isn't getting any better.
1 posted on 12/16/2011 9:00:26 PM PST by Libloather
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Libloather

Did anyone see Dateline tonight about the missing Pa. DA and how they now think he might have “disappeared” over his decision not to take down Sandusky.


2 posted on 12/16/2011 9:07:51 PM PST by Mountain Mary ("My core is not up for grabs". El Rushbo 12/06/11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Libloather

Is Paterno being accused of any coverup?


3 posted on 12/16/2011 9:10:54 PM PST by LibFreeUSA (Pick Your Poison)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Libloather

More unbelievable..... how can ANY adult possibly be so negligent about these matters?

This was not some vague allegation of “I heard so-and-so may be such-and-such....” and then there has to be a cautious investigation to avoid making unsubstantiated charges without evidence.

There was no POSSIBLE excuse for any of the foot-dragging and inaction which followed.

This was a specific witnessed act between a grown man and a 10 yr old child in his care!!

They all had a moral and legal obligation to protect all those children from Sandusky immediately!!! Not to have meetings over weeks wondering whether to do anything.

What’s wrong with these people at Penn State????


4 posted on 12/16/2011 9:11:44 PM PST by Enchante
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Enchante

If ever a program deserved the Death Penalty, it’s Penn State.


5 posted on 12/16/2011 9:13:15 PM PST by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: dfwgator

Programs don’t commit crimes, people commit crimes. Jail the bad guys, and leave the program that benefits the students, who have no culpability here, alone.


6 posted on 12/16/2011 9:15:45 PM PST by Melas (u)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Melas

Right now, I couldn’t care less about any injustice that may befall the students. It pales in comparison to what happened to those kids.

Getting the death penalty turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to SMU, it has become a very good academic school.


7 posted on 12/16/2011 9:18:42 PM PST by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Mountain Mary

I missed it.What did they say?


8 posted on 12/16/2011 9:19:28 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Libloather


9 posted on 12/16/2011 9:19:47 PM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas gerit)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Enchante
What’s wrong with these people at Penn State????

Penn State football had a $53 million profit last season, based on gross revenues of $72.7 million.

The love of money is the root of all evil.

10 posted on 12/16/2011 9:19:47 PM PST by mainevet (Get an M1911 or two or three or four)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Enchante
What’s wrong with these people at Penn State????

The same thing that is wrong at a lot of universities these days - the sports program and the dollars it brings in matters more than everything else. Players are coddled while they build drug addictions, people are victimized by players and coaches, all in the name of keeping them on the field/court.

This case has gotten the attention due to the ages of the victims and their relationship to the coach and his charity, but I bet you could find rape victims on every camps in America with a perp connected to a sports program.

11 posted on 12/16/2011 9:20:53 PM PST by 5thGenTexan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Mountain Mary

Or did he disappear because he WAS going to do something about it?

Getting offed for NOT doing anything doesn’t make much sense.


12 posted on 12/16/2011 9:21:08 PM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Libloather

I have a hypothesis:

Our cultural/political “gay mafia” has so inundated people with propaganda that (especially in a politically correct university setting) people may be

1) afraid to stick their necks out to do anything,

2) demoralized about why pedophiles/pederasts must not be “tolerated” whatever one’s beliefs may be re homosexual behavior between consenting adults.

For comparison, consider if a coach witnessed Sandusky doing the same thing with a 10 yr. old girl in the showers..... I think there is a far higher likelihood that Paterno and the higher Penn State officials would have responded immediately, vigorously, with law enforcement, etc.

Maybe in part because of lingering cultural attitudes protecting girls more than boys, but also because there would not be the same total erosion of standards (yet). i.e., I’m suggesting (speculating) that it would have been intolerable for Joe Pat and other Penn State officials to twiddle their thumbs while Sandusky continued to do this with 10 yr old girls. How could they not be concerned enough about those boys?

This is mere speculation, I emphasize, but how is it that moral and cultural beliefs could be so weak that “men” (I use the term ironically now) like these Penn State officials could be so d——d unconcerned about PROTECTING these children???


13 posted on 12/16/2011 9:21:51 PM PST by Enchante
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mountain Mary

He disappeared for investigating it to begin with. It wasn’t his dropping it that got him killed, it was pursuing it to begin with. JoPa needs to be in the criminal part of these charges too


14 posted on 12/16/2011 9:22:39 PM PST by Figment
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: dfwgator
Right now, I couldn’t care less about any injustice that may befall the students.

Sorry, but I find that simply incomprehensible. I don't get that kind of logic, if it is even logical, and I doubt I ever will.

Punish the guilty, and not the innocent. It's the American way.

15 posted on 12/16/2011 9:24:32 PM PST by Melas (u)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Enchante

What’s wrong with these people at Penn State????

Maybe Sandusky wasn’t the only one?


16 posted on 12/16/2011 9:24:56 PM PST by Figment
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: dfwgator

If ever a program deserved the Death Penalty, it’s Penn State.

And possibly their entire coaching staff from the past 35 years


17 posted on 12/16/2011 9:27:28 PM PST by Figment
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Enchante
For comparison, consider if a coach witnessed Sandusky doing the same thing with a 10 yr. old girl in the showers..... I think there is a far higher likelihood that Paterno and the higher Penn State officials would have responded immediately, vigorously, with law enforcement, etc.

I think you're reading the situation completely wrong. A blind wasn't turned because there was homosexual activity. A blind eye was turned because the publicity might damage a winning collegiate sports cash cow. That wouldn't change if Sandusky was buggering girls, goats or fish.

18 posted on 12/16/2011 9:28:26 PM PST by Melas (u)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: mainevet

Well, it is really the love of the pride that is the problem...not the money.


19 posted on 12/16/2011 9:31:10 PM PST by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Melas

Perhaps, of course I’m sure the program and money played a huge role, but somehow it think the outrage would have been there if it had been a 10 yr old girl involved.

Or not, in either case the moral depravity of people who can countenance that behavior toward children is essentially the same whether it involves boys or girls.

I’m simply struggling to understand how it was even *possible* for such moral blindness to exist.


20 posted on 12/16/2011 9:31:46 PM PST by Enchante
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Persevero; fatima

Okay, now I get it. He might have been ready to blow the whistle and that’s why he disappeared. WOW..
And his damaged hard drive and separate lap top were found in the nearby river.
His body hasn’t been recovered.


21 posted on 12/16/2011 9:34:23 PM PST by Mountain Mary ("My core is not up for grabs". El Rushbo 12/06/11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: dfwgator

app;es to oranges


22 posted on 12/16/2011 9:34:46 PM PST by lonestar (It takes a village of idiots to elect a village idiot.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: mainevet
Follow the money to discover the evil it has spawned. It is time to shutdown ALL athletic programs at Penn State for ten years, disband the teams, fire the coaches, and get back to the basics of EDUCATING people. The jockstraps can play for other schools.

Very few people can play well enough to get picked by the pros. If you do, the uncertainty of a playing career isn't inspiring. You'd better have life skills other than playing a kid's game extremely well. However, all the people who love to watch the jockstraps play games will scream and howl like stuck pigs if Penn's precious athletics are threatened.

23 posted on 12/16/2011 9:35:27 PM PST by MasterGunner01 (11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Enchante

What’s wrong with these people?

The same thing that has been wrong with people throughout the entire history of humanity.

All it takes for evil to prosper, is that good men do nothing.


24 posted on 12/16/2011 9:35:59 PM PST by sarasmom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Persevero
Or did he disappear because he WAS going to do something about it?

IF there is any truth to the allegation that Sandusky was pimping out his groomed boys to "wealthy donors"; and those folks were in danger of being "outed" through an investigation you're only one or two connections away from the wealthy crime syndicates who are very skilled in making people disappear.

25 posted on 12/16/2011 9:36:11 PM PST by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Libloather
Once again, the headline is a lie, which I suppose AFB nuances with the little ' marks around the word "knew".

McQueary said he did not provide explicit details of the March 2002 incident to Paterno but did so about 10 days later when contacted by Curley, the university's athletic director, and Schultz, the head of the school's police.

So, McQueary did not provide details to Paterno - - when he went to see him the next day - - but did provide deatils to the AD and the head of the school's police after those two finally contacted him 10 days later.

Good grief. I will cut the old man a little slack - - after all, Sandusky no longer worked for Paterno at the time, and Paterno did report his concerns to the AD and head of campus police - - but those other three need to do hard prison time.

26 posted on 12/16/2011 9:40:24 PM PST by Lancey Howard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: fabian

throw in Lust and Acedia too.


27 posted on 12/16/2011 9:44:19 PM PST by mainevet (Get an M1911 or two or three or four)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Mountain Mary

That story was in the Daily Mail about two days after the Sandusky story broke...I can’t believe it has taken this long to be brought up...it stinks.

I did not see the Dateline piece, but I think it is important information.


28 posted on 12/16/2011 9:49:46 PM PST by sipwine (Eat well, stay well....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Enchante

I’m simply struggling to understand how it was even *possible* for such moral blindness to exist.


This won’t make it easier to understand, but many people don’t think it really harms boys. They think boys are strong and can deal with it. They think boys are horney and want to be molested by adults. They think it is just men and boys “horsing around”, as Sandusky put it. They have no concept of how it harms a boys sexual development, sense of trust, self respect and respect for others and their very idenity. They don’t think boys are vulnerable and innocent. They are ignorant of child development.

These same people understand how damaging sexual molestation is to girls. But boys are not really human with feelings, I guess, to some people. A lot of people view men like this, too.


29 posted on 12/16/2011 9:50:02 PM PST by SaraJohnson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Libloather
Of course he knew and this is beyond disgusting.

It's a cover-up of abhorrent criminal activity.

30 posted on 12/16/2011 9:52:34 PM PST by onyx (PLEASE SUPPORT FREE REPUBLIC:DONATE MONTHLY! Sarah's New Ping List - tell me if you want on it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: CW_Conservative
Gloria Allred is involved, that should tell you something.

Strike that, confused Syracuse with Penn State on Allred.

32 posted on 12/16/2011 10:03:32 PM PST by CW_Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: CW_Conservative
"These kids weren't forced to be with Sandusky, he worked for a charity for low lifes. They chose to hang out with him. You really think these juvenille delinquents wouldn't complain if they were being mistreated?"

I find this part of your comments reprehensible. 10 year old children are NOT "low lifes" because they come from poor or broken homes.

They did not choose or control that. There are many reasons a child may not report or even fully understand sexual abuse -- talk about blaming the victim. If dealing with an older age group there is certainly more room for discussing individual choices and responsibility. But 10 year olds are highly dependent upon the adults around them, for food and shelter, and also for guidance about moral and immoral distinctions, etc. If a "revered" coach and mentor like Sandusky was grooming these kids as reported, they *might* (would) have a difficult time knowing how to react, how to get out of a situation, especially if they lacked a solid home life.
33 posted on 12/16/2011 10:06:22 PM PST by Enchante
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Libloather

The more that people with behavioral disorders are encouraged and “celebrated” in our society, the more of these kinds of scandals we are going to see. The question is, how long are Americans going to sit still for the sewage being pumped into our culture?


34 posted on 12/16/2011 10:07:14 PM PST by ElkGroveDan (My tagline is in the shop.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lancey Howard
Concerns?

Paterno was told a child was molested!

That is a police matter, not something to be pushed up to the AD.

35 posted on 12/16/2011 10:10:49 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Burke)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: CW_Conservative
These were CHILDREN, they had no 'choice'

Amazing on a Conservative site you would attempt to justify those acts!

36 posted on 12/16/2011 10:12:27 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Burke)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Mountain Mary
Seems to me that if there were any real men in the Penn State athletic department, Dateline would be doing a story over the disappearance of Jerry Sandusky. Sandusky would not have lasted one day in my neighborhood if people knew what he was doing.
37 posted on 12/16/2011 10:14:16 PM PST by Jay Redhawk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Libloather; Scoutmaster; All
From the article: When he told Paterno of what he saw, the iconic US college football coach slumped deep into his chair, McQueary said. "He said, 'I'm sorry you had to see that,"' McQueary said.

What? Paterno wasn't "sorry" the kid was being sexually abused; only that the witnessing of it extended further than desired?

What a moral moron and a moral midget!!!

From the article: According to Paterno's grand jury testimony McQueary reported to him that Sandusky was doing something with a "sexual nature" to the boy. Paterno told McQueary he had "done the right thing" by telling him. McQueary said the coach appeared shocked and saddened and said he would talk to others about what McQueary had told him. "I didn't push Mike... because he was very upset," Paterno said. "I knew Mike was upset and I knew some kind of inappropriate action was being taken by Jerry Sandusky with a youngster."

Yup. Paterno knew.

There's cancer of the body; there's also cancer of the soul.

38 posted on 12/16/2011 10:14:58 PM PST by Colofornian (Mormon polygamy: It ain't just for time anymore...Lds tie the plural knot sequentially THESE days)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Twink

Heyyyyy I will write you a message but I thought you might find this thread of interest, however sadly.

I wrote this comment #13 before I’d seen your comments on another thread, then was looking for prior FR threads on the Sandusky matter.... saw that your (much more developed) comments on the the “homosexual agenda” on campuses and in our culture more broadly was pretty much what I was starting to think about here.

i.e., I agree with you that this could have happened (does happen) in many many different places and settings, that there has been a huge breakdown in standards due to the onslaught of (what I called) a “gay mafia” on campuses etc. with what you call the “homosexual agenda.”

While acknowledging other issues about Penn State’s former Pres. Spanier and the football program etc., I agree with you that much needs to be understood in terms of large cultural and moral changes which have influenced many people toward (1) fear of speaking out, and (2) tolerance of perversity.


39 posted on 12/16/2011 10:15:38 PM PST by Enchante
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Lancey Howard
Hope the parents successfully sue dirt-bag Paterno. He needs to live out his remaining days in shame and poverty...preferably under a bridge in soiled clothes.
40 posted on 12/16/2011 10:15:45 PM PST by Dagnabitt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: CW_Conservative
You know what is more "unbelievable". How gullible people are when it comes to stories like this one. These kids weren't forced to be with Sandusky, he worked for a charity for low lifes. They chose to hang out with him. You really think these juvenille delinquents wouldn't complain if they were being mistreated? Years before the "rape" at Penn State, one child complained to his mom about showering with Sandusky, the police and social services were notified. They did nothing because even though strange, no crime was committed.

What a low-life commentary of yours.

Perhaps you could start a support group called "Pedophiles for Paterno." And/or "Pedophiles for Penn State."

41 posted on 12/16/2011 10:18:17 PM PST by Colofornian (Mormon polygamy: It ain't just for time anymore...Lds tie the plural knot sequentially THESE days)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: LibFreeUSA
Is Paterno being accused of any coverup?

I think what has happened is that the prosecutors put their heads together & asked the question: "Can we find a dozen jurors in this state who would convict Joe Paterno?"

When the obvious answer of "no" came back, they decided upon other targets.

42 posted on 12/16/2011 10:21:42 PM PST by Colofornian (Mormon polygamy: It ain't just for time anymore...Lds tie the plural knot sequentially THESE days)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Lancey Howard
So, McQueary did not provide details to Paterno - - when he went to see him the next day...Good grief. I will cut the old man a little slack...

Oh. So because McQueary didn't provide a "game film" of the action with a complete scouting report, ya wanna "cut" him "slack" because Joe only admitted that he "KNEW some kind of inappropriate action was being taken...with a youngster."

From the article: "I didn't push Mike... because he was very upset," Paterno said. "I knew Mike was upset and I knew some kind of inappropriate action was being taken by Jerry Sandusky with a youngster."

Tell you what, Lancey. If you ever discover "inappropriate action" is occurring against "youngsters"...perhaps your kids or grandkids...be consistent...just "look the other way" or tell others to "look the other way." Cut 'em all slack. /sad sarc

43 posted on 12/16/2011 10:29:43 PM PST by Colofornian (Mormon polygamy: It ain't just for time anymore...Lds tie the plural knot sequentially THESE days)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

If you ever accuse somebody of being a pedophile based on something not quite clear told to you the next day by some other person and it turns out it was all wrong - maybe the other person was lying, for example - you better be ready to get shot in the face.


44 posted on 12/16/2011 10:33:50 PM PST by Lancey Howard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Enchante
"There are many reasons a child may not report or even fully understand sexual abuse -- talk about blaming the victim."

"But 10 year olds are highly dependent upon the adults around them, for food and shelter..."

Do you think a kid "fully understands" pain? Do you think they know whether or not they like it?

Kids weren't "dependent" on Sandusky for anything. The government was feeding, clothing and providing section 8 housing for them. dependent

45 posted on 12/16/2011 10:36:10 PM PST by CW_Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Figment
Maybe Sandusky wasn’t the only one?

Do a search for John T. Neisworth, a world-renowned expert on childhood developmental disorders, specifically autism. He's retired from Penn State and has quite a history of being accused (both criminally and in civil court) of raping a boy over a 3-year period while employed at Penn State.

Professor charged with molestation (2005 article)
Did Penn State Ignore Other Sexual Abuse Claims? (Nov 15, 2011)
Arizona man says Penn State officials ignored his report of abuse by a former professor (Nov 15, 2011)

Paul McLaughlin, the alleged victim (now 45 yrs old), apparently has evidence that is quite compelling; at least it was to a DA in Maryland. McLaughlin, as an adult, was in therapy and decided to pursue his childhood abusers, so he tape-recorded phone calls to Neisworth and his two friends who allegedly participated in the abuse.

The statute of limitations had not expired in Maryland, so a Maryland DA brought criminal charges against Neisworth & his friends (they allegedly participated in the abuse that lasted 3 years).

Here's a link to one of Neisworth's cohorts who was also charged: Funnyman's Past Has Finally Caught Up To Him (has photos of all 3 men)

I don't know if Neisworth is guilty or not. However, it doesn't look very good for him if he's innocent. Besides paying McLaughlin a private lawsuit settlement, one of his earliest studies (his dissertation, i think) in the late 60's/early '70s involved congenitally-blind children and observing their "autoerotic" habits. That, plus he and one of the other men arrested (Smith) have collaborated on several studies involving young autistic kids. One of those studies had them hanging out at elementary schools to observe little boys "in the lavatory" to see if they threw away trash as they were instructed. (Donald Smith was working at Penn State also at the time, if i'm remembering correctly.)

Maybe it's all just a coincidence.

46 posted on 12/16/2011 10:38:07 PM PST by naxetevitan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: CW_Conservative

Do you have any children? Any boys, around 10 years old? Just wondering where you get the ideas that you are unveiling here. Just curious.


47 posted on 12/16/2011 10:50:26 PM PST by Paradox (The rich SHOULD be paying more taxes, and they WOULD, if they could make more money.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: CW_Conservative

I’m not going to debate this with you because I don’t know much about child sexual abuse in general or these specific cases. Nothing in my own life has brought me into any knowledge beyond what I read in the occasional news article etc. However, I do know that it is ludicrous and offensive to assume every 10 yr old understands such a situation or what to do about it.... especially if they do not have a good home setting in which to report it.


48 posted on 12/16/2011 10:54:28 PM PST by Enchante
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: CW_Conservative

“These kids weren’t forced to be with Sandusky, he worked for a charity for low lifes. They chose to hang out with him.

You really think these juvenille delinquents wouldn’t complain if they were being mistreated?”

Wow. Just....wow.
Un-freaking-believable.


49 posted on 12/16/2011 10:54:38 PM PST by Scotswife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
Perhaps you could start a support group called "Pedophiles for Paterno".

That response wasn't worthy of a 10 yr. old.

50 posted on 12/16/2011 10:55:27 PM PST by CW_Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-111 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson