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U.S. Says Drone Crashed, Refuting Iran's Claim
WSJ ^ | Dec. 16, 2011 | SIOBHAN GORMAN AND ADAM ENTOUS

Posted on 12/17/2011 1:10:45 PM PST by indpndtguy

WASHINGTON—U.S. officials believe the downed spy drone on display in Iran crashed and broke into several pieces, and the Iranians reassembled it to make it appear as though it landed intact.

Officials also believe the Iranians repainted the drone, perhaps to conceal damage done to the body of the plane. In an Iranian video, the drone appears to be white, whereas the actual one is charcoal gray, they said.

Iranian officials last week showed video footage of what they said was the downed drone, the RQ-170 Sentinel. They have variously claimed that they shot it down or remotely skyjacked it before landing the craft in one piece.

The stealth drone was developed for the Air Force, but was flying under the authority of the Central Intelligence Agency when its remote pilots lost control of it late last week, said several U.S. officials.

With one of the most-sophisticated U.S. spy planes now in Iranian hands, U.S. officials continue work to assess how much U.S. intelligence capability may have been compromised. Iran's ability to reassemble the drone and put it on display has prompted U.S. lawmakers to ask why the unmanned drone lacked a feature that caused it to self-destruct if it malfunctioned, a congressional official said.

U.S. officials familiar with the American assessment of the incident forcefully dispute Tehran's assertion and say the pilot lost control of the craft. "They did not commandeer it and steer it to the ground," said an Obama administration official. "It crashed, and they put it back together to make it look whole, like a puzzle being put back together."

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: drone; iran; obama

1 posted on 12/17/2011 1:10:50 PM PST by indpndtguy
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To: indpndtguy

Interesting twist.


2 posted on 12/17/2011 1:14:07 PM PST by conservativepoet (The chief aim of order within Christianity is to make room for good things to romp and play.)
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To: indpndtguy

There was a time when we could believe our government. Now, not so much! They’ve become such good liars about everything big and small. They lie even when they don’t need to.


3 posted on 12/17/2011 1:15:13 PM PST by vette6387 (Enough Already!)
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To: indpndtguy

the grill on the thing looked bogus and it also looks like it is shrink wrapped or something.


4 posted on 12/17/2011 1:15:35 PM PST by Fred911 (YOU GET WHAT YOU ACCEPT)
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To: indpndtguy
Who are you going to believe, this administration or your lying eyes??
5 posted on 12/17/2011 1:15:35 PM PST by Ken522
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To: indpndtguy

Whom to believe, this administration or Iran? Decisions...decisions.


6 posted on 12/17/2011 1:16:29 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: indpndtguy

I’ll wait for Pravda to report what really happened.....U.S. officials can’t be trusted.

Obama get’s hammered for doing nothing to blow the dam thing up and now many days later, the story is that it crashed into “pieces”... sure it did, sure it did.


7 posted on 12/17/2011 1:16:55 PM PST by Gator113 (~Just livin' life, my way~.. Newt/Palin-West-2012."got a lot swirling around in my head.")
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To: indpndtguy
At first Zero and the kids denied that Iran had the drone. When Iran showed it on the news, the Zero's kids claimed it was a fake. Now they are telling us it crashed and unlike humpty dumpty, the Iranians were able to put it all back together again.

Will we learn in a week or two that Zero gave it to them? The BS never stops.

8 posted on 12/17/2011 1:17:22 PM PST by VicVega (LSU is without a doubt the #1 team in the nation. GEAUX TIGERS, Geaux Saints)
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To: vette6387

from another source:

Tale of RQ-170 Hijack In Doubt as Told in Tehran

Purported Iranian engineering specialists have been taking liberties with the laws of physics in their descriptions of an electronic hijacking of the RQ-170 unmanned reconnaissance aircraft, say U.S. analyst.

Holes in the account start with the fact that it took days for the Iranians to discover the lost aircraft. In fact, intelligence officials at one point thought the Iranians might simply never stumble across the crash site because it was in such a remote and uninhabited part of northeastern Iran.

Electronic attack of the Sentinel is “certainly possible, but there’s no indication that they even knew it had crashed in Iran for some time,” says a veteran black-projects manager.

That scenario is validated by an aerospace industry ISR specialist, who agreed that “if they were not aware [of the Sentinel’s presence in Iran for days], then there is no reason to believe they had any semblance of control.”

And then there are technical issues that make a hijacking, as described by the Iranians, unlikely.

“Among the reasons to doubt the claim that GPS jamming had anything to do with the loss of the RQ-170 is a simple overlooked fact,” says a third U.S. analyst. “GPS is not the primary navigation sensor for the RQ-170 or for most other air vehicles. The vehicle gets its flight path orders from an inertial navigation system, which is essentially unjammable unless you want to monkey with the local gravitational field. The GPS updates the INS and cancels its drift. So, even a full GPS blackout would simply cause the vehicle to be a bit less accurate,” he adds.

“If the GPS was ‘spoofed’ with a fake signal — and even JDAMs have anti-spoofing GPS receivers today, so that might be difficult — any abrupt change in the GPS reading would cause the Kalman filters in the GPS/INS to conclude that the GPS was malfunctioning and cut it out of the loop,” he says.

The continuing discussion of why the RQ-170 went down was renewed by a Christian Science Monitor interview with Iranian military technologists who say they were able to “cut off communications links” to the Sentinel using knowledge gathered from the inspection of at least three other U.S.-operated, non-stealthy, unmanned aerial systems (UAS). The trick, they say, was to scramble the GPS coordinates that guided the aircraft to make it think it was landing at its home base in Afghanistan, and only imprecision in the altitude data caused the Sentinel to land with its wheels up.

The report went on to quote an Iranian engineer as saying the “electronic ambush” was accomplished “by putting noise [jamming] on the communications, you force the bird into autopilot. This is where the bird loses its brain.”

www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3abca8e6e2-70ef-40a3-8c56-f83aa6fc7ade&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest


9 posted on 12/17/2011 1:18:15 PM PST by indpndtguy
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To: indpndtguy
Wow, I'm impressed with the Iranians ability to put it back together that quickly and that well.
Meanwhile back at the ranch, after 10 years, we're still rebuilding the twin towers.
10 posted on 12/17/2011 1:18:25 PM PST by Riodacat (And when all is said and done, there'll be a hell of a lot more said than done......)
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To: vette6387

” There was a time when we could believe our government. Now, NOT AT ALL .... there, I fixed it


11 posted on 12/17/2011 1:18:32 PM PST by SF_Redux (Sarah stands for accountablility and personal responsiblity, democrats can't live with that)
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To: indpndtguy

1. They pick up a drone on the ground that is grey and put it back together white?

The Iranian ain’t exactly stupid...

2. The pilot lost control as simply a function of the pilot losing control?

...uh huh...dare the DOD to let hackers at the yearly Reno confab have three days at it...betcha there’s lots of holes in that thing virtually speaking.

=8-)


12 posted on 12/17/2011 1:18:40 PM PST by =8 mrrabbit 8=
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To: indpndtguy

Why argue about words? It doesn’t matter whether or not it crashed or came down intact. The problem still remains. Iran has it.


13 posted on 12/17/2011 1:18:53 PM PST by moviefan8
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To: Gator113
I’ll wait for Pravda to report what really happened.....U.S. officials can’t be trusted.

Sad isn' it? Up is down, right is left...

14 posted on 12/17/2011 1:20:33 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: indpndtguy

Anybody that believes anything coming from this administration..

SHOULD SLAPPED HARD... nose twisted and switched with apple switch until begged to STOP..

and then done again several times..


15 posted on 12/17/2011 1:22:44 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: moviefan8
It matters a lot, if Iran actually has the power to commandeer drones, and land them intact (or otherwise).
16 posted on 12/17/2011 1:23:27 PM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: indpndtguy
U.S. officials believe the downed spy drone on display in Iran crashed and broke into several pieces, and the Iranians reassembled it to make it appear as though it landed intact.

...and soon US officials will make public an animated video to prove just this.

17 posted on 12/17/2011 1:24:28 PM PST by Roccus (Obama & Holder LLC - purveyor of fine arms to the most discerning drug lords. (202) 456-1414)
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To: Gator113

dam thing=damN thing


18 posted on 12/17/2011 1:24:41 PM PST by Gator113 (~Just livin' life, my way~.. Newt/Palin-West-2012."got a lot swirling around in my head.")
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To: moviefan8

right on the bull’s eye.
If the aviotionweek blog is correct, then I dont get it
why 0 refused to authorize one of the 3 options to
neutralize it when he had a few days to do it!


19 posted on 12/17/2011 1:26:03 PM PST by indpndtguy
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To: dfwgator

Yes, disgustingly sad.


20 posted on 12/17/2011 1:27:57 PM PST by Gator113 (~Just livin' life, my way~.. Newt/Palin-West-2012."got a lot swirling around in my head.")
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To: indpndtguy

IMHO...It was test to find out what the RH’s would do with it.


21 posted on 12/17/2011 1:30:12 PM PST by Dallas59 (President Robert Gibbs 2009-2011)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
It matters a lot, if Iran actually has the power to commandeer drones, and land them intact (or otherwise).

Everything has to be changed on our side. The US has to take everything into account now and make sure everything is secure.

22 posted on 12/17/2011 1:31:03 PM PST by moviefan8
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To: indpndtguy
Either way, it was dereliction of duty to allow it to fall into enemy hands without destroying it first.

This is a phoney issue designed to deflect attention from the above serious national security breach by the obama regime.

23 posted on 12/17/2011 1:38:15 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: indpndtguy
I'm Earl Hussein Osama.

I'll paint any Drone, any color, for $29.95.

24 posted on 12/17/2011 1:38:18 PM PST by Kickass Conservative (Liberals, Useful Idiots Voting for Useless Idiots...)
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To: moviefan8

because THESE words help effect attention away from the fact that 0traitor refused to allow the military to destroy the top secret survielliance drone in any of the THREE methods available.

the reports do elighten us to the fact that it went down in a VERY remote area.

the ‘reasons’ not to destroy the drone get weaker and weaker


25 posted on 12/17/2011 1:39:14 PM PST by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: indpndtguy

Cause he is a lawlerly pinhead....smart...but DUMB.


26 posted on 12/17/2011 1:45:13 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Riodacat

” I’m impressed with the Iranians ability to put it back together that quickly and that well.”

Hot Glue and Duct Tape can put anything back together!


27 posted on 12/17/2011 1:46:39 PM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: indpndtguy; NormsRevenge; Marine_Uncle; blam; SunkenCiv; TigersEye; justa-hairyape
Thanks.

See # 9.

28 posted on 12/17/2011 1:49:12 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

But they must not have any Grey paint.


29 posted on 12/17/2011 1:51:14 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: indpndtguy

Its all part of a secret technology transfer to China...


30 posted on 12/17/2011 1:51:46 PM PST by ColdSteelTalon (Light is fading to shadow, and casting its shroud over all we have known...)
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To: indpndtguy

It crashed, it was in pieces and the choices were...send in Seals to retrieve...destroy it from airstrike...leave it alone and go play golf.


31 posted on 12/17/2011 1:51:46 PM PST by biggredd1
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To: indpndtguy

I am curious why the Iranians did not show the bottom half of the craft.


32 posted on 12/17/2011 1:52:56 PM PST by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: vette6387
They lie even when they don’t need to.

Heck, they lie even when the truth would serve them better.

33 posted on 12/17/2011 1:55:34 PM PST by null and void (Day 1062 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
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To: moviefan8
The problem still remains. Iran has it.

And the Vacationer In Chief of the United States looks either like an indecisive wimp or a traitor. Take your pick.

34 posted on 12/17/2011 1:58:19 PM PST by Fresh Wind ('People have got to know whether or not their President is a crook.' Richard M. Nixon)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; dfwgator; AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ...

Thanks Ernest and indpndtguy.


35 posted on 12/17/2011 1:59:18 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Merry Christmas, Happy New Year! May 2013 be even Happier!)
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To: vette6387
There was a time when we could believe our government...

You have to go back to about 1959 to get to a time where the government could be somewhat trusted on what they say. Then in the nineties, starting with the first Bush, it started to get really bad, and has been going rapidly downhill ever since, with each successive administration getting more brazen. Now with Zero and his henchmen in office, it's nothing more than an in-your-face crime syndicate with carefully crafted "statements" released through the Ministry of Propaganda.
36 posted on 12/17/2011 2:03:58 PM PST by SpaceBar
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To: indpndtguy
The US Government can't get its story straight about how they killed Osama Bin Laden.
If Iran didn't know the drone was there and it went down in a uninhabited area Iran wouldn't have found it in the first place. The Iranians probably hacked it with the help of the Chinese and the Russians. Now the entire fleet of US spy and attack drones are vulnerable and been compromised by Obama. It would be devastating to have our own predator drones taken over and used to attack US troops.
37 posted on 12/17/2011 2:04:44 PM PST by pterional
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To: sten

Even if it crashed I would have blown it up no matter how remote it was. After that I would have go through existing procedures and change them.

I admit it is easy to be a keyboard commander and hindsight is 20/20.

By saying it crashed it still says that Obama did nothing to prevent it from falling into enemy hands. He still comes out looking bad at least in my eyes.

I think we here are all pretty much have the same opinion on this issue. It is just convincing other people who are not as informed or lack critical thinking skills.


38 posted on 12/17/2011 2:09:31 PM PST by moviefan8
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To: SpaceBar
Then in the nineties, starting with the first Bush, it started to get really bad....

Short memory there, Spacey. Do "Missile Gap" and Credibility Gap" ring a bell?

39 posted on 12/17/2011 2:20:16 PM PST by Roccus (Obama & Holder LLC - purveyor of fine arms to the most discerning drug lords. (202) 456-1414)
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To: Roccus

I could have gone back to the Gary Powers incident, but didn’t want to tax our younger freepers.


40 posted on 12/17/2011 2:23:53 PM PST by SpaceBar
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To: indpndtguy

From the article: “Officials also believe the Iranians repainted the drone, perhaps to conceal damage done to the body...”

What’s the big deal? My wife has been doing the same thing for decades.


41 posted on 12/17/2011 2:30:37 PM PST by doyle
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
“Among the reasons to doubt the claim that GPS jamming had anything to do with the loss of the RQ-170 is a simple overlooked fact,” says a third U.S. analyst. “GPS is not the primary navigation sensor for the RQ-170 or for most other air vehicles. The vehicle gets its flight path orders from an inertial navigation system, which is essentially unjammable unless you want to monkey with the local gravitational field. The GPS updates the INS and cancels its drift. So, even a full GPS blackout would simply cause the vehicle to be a bit less accurate,”

I have viewed a number of the postings on this issue, and had in fact concluded the above being the case. And as has been brought out a number of times, the skin color is wrong.
42 posted on 12/17/2011 2:54:13 PM PST by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

“But they must not have any Grey paint.”

They shoulda used more Duct Tape then! It’s grey/gray,,,,, whichever,,,,,


43 posted on 12/17/2011 2:55:31 PM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: SpaceBar

The K man really blindsided Ike with that one...


44 posted on 12/17/2011 3:12:51 PM PST by Roccus (Obama & Holder LLC - purveyor of fine arms to the most discerning drug lords. (202) 456-1414)
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To: biggredd1
It crashed, it was in pieces and the choices were...send in Seals to
retrieve...destroy it from airstrike...leave it alone and go play golf.


45 posted on 12/17/2011 3:35:38 PM PST by Iron Munro ("Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight he'll just kill you." John Steinbeck)
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To: SpaceBar

“You have to go back to about 1959 to get to a time where the government could be somewhat trusted on what they say. Then in the nineties, starting with the first Bush, it started to get really bad, and has been going rapidly downhill ever since, with each successive administration getting more brazen. Now with Zero and his henchmen in office, it’s nothing more than an in-your-face crime syndicate with carefully crafted “statements” released through the Ministry of Propaganda.”

DING! and another big winner...


46 posted on 12/17/2011 4:33:08 PM PST by mongo141
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To: indpndtguy

Why can’t drones be programmed to blow up automatically if the pilot loses control?


47 posted on 12/17/2011 5:23:51 PM PST by BlazingArizona
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Ernie. Check this post out when you get a chance. And if you have time to go through the various URL references by RaceBannon and Enchante in particular... let your blood boil a bit my good man. Here.
48 posted on 12/17/2011 11:42:58 PM PST by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned.)
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