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Liquidation Of Customer Stored Gold And Silver Bullion From MF Global
TMO ^ | 12-17-2011 | Jesse

Posted on 12/17/2011 8:38:03 PM PST by blam

Liquidation Of Customer Stored Gold And Silver Bullion From MF Global

Commodities / Gold and Silver 2011
Dec 17, 2011 - 12:27 PM
By: Jesse

The bottom line is that apparently some warehouses and bullion dealers are not a safe place to store your gold and silver, even if you hold a specific warehouse receipt. In an oligarchy, private ownership is merely a concept, subject to interpretation and confiscation.

Although the details and the individual perpetrators are yet to be disclosed, what is now painfully clear is that the CFTC and CME regulated futures system is defaulting on its obligations. This did not even happen in the big failures like Lehman and Bear Sterns in which the customer accounts were kept whole and transferred before the liquidation process.

Obviously holding unallocated gold and silver in a fractional reserve scheme is subject to much more counterparty risk than many might have previously admitted. If a major bullion bank were to declare bankruptcy or a major exchange a default, how would it affect you? Do you think your property claims would be protected based on what you have seen this year?

You always have counter-party risk if you hold gold and silver through another party, even if they are a Primary Dealer of the Federal Reserve. As Ben said, the Fed offers no seal of approval.

If a Bankruptcy Trustee can pool your bullion into the rest of the paper assets and then liquidate it at prices that are being front run by the Street, you will have to accept whatever paper settlement that they give you.

The customer money and bullion assets are not lost, or rehypothecated or anything else. This is a pseudo-legal fig leaf, a convenient rationalization.

The customer assets were stolen, and given to at least one major financial institution by MF Global to satisfy an 11th hour margin call in the week of their bankruptcy, even as MF Global was paying bonuses to its London employees. And now that powerful financial institution does not want to give the customer money back. And they are so powerful that the Trustee and the Court is reluctant to try and claw it back. And so in the great Wall Street tradition they are trying to force the customers and the public to take the loss. The regulators and the exchange are aghast, and are trying to imagine how to resolve and spin this to preserve investor confidence and prevent a run on the system.

'Let them eat warehouse receipts.'

For many this would have been unthinkable only a few months ago. They had been cautioned and warned repeatedly, but chose to trust the financial system. And now they are suffering loss and anxiety, frozen assets, and the misappropriation of their wealth.

How more plainly can it be said? The US financial system as it now stands cannot be trusted to observe even the most basic property rights as it continues to unravel from a long standing culture of fraud.

Get your money as far away from Wall Street as is possible. And if you want to own gold and silver, take delivery and store it in a secure private facility outside the fractional reserve system.

Barrons
The Silver Rush at MF Global
By ERIN E. ARVEDLUND
December 17, 2011

It's one thing for $1.2 billion to vanish into thin air through a series of complex trades, the well-publicized phenomenon at bankrupt MF Global. It's something else for a bar of silver stashed in a vault to instantly shrink in size by more than 25%.

That, in essence, is what's happening to investors whose bars of silver and gold were held through accounts with MF Global.

The trustee overseeing the liquidation of the failed brokerage has proposed dumping all remaining customer assets—gold, silver, cash, options, futures and commodities—into a single pool that would pay customers only 72% of the value of their holdings. In other words, while traders already may have paid the full price for delivery of specific bars of gold or silver—and hold "warehouse receipts" to prove it—they'll have to forfeit 28% of the value.

That has investors fuming. "Warehouse receipts, like gold bars, are our property, 100%," contends John Roe, a partner in BTR Trading, a Chicago futures-trading firm. He personally lost several hundred thousand dollars in investments via MF Global; his clients lost even more. "We are a unique class, and instead, the trustee is doing a radical redistribution of property," he says.

Roe and others point out that, unlike other MF Global customers, who held paper assets, those with warehouse receipts have claims on assets that still exist and can be readily identified.

The tussle has been obscured by former CEO Jon Corzine's appearances on Capitol Hill. But it's a burning issue for the Commodity Customer Coalition, a group that says it represents some 8,000 investors—many of them hedge funds—with exposure to MF Global. "I've issued a declaration of war," says James Koutoulas, lead attorney for the group, and CEO of Typhon Capital Management.

At stake is an unspecified, but apparently large, volume of gold and silver bars slated for delivery to traders through accounts at MF Global, which filed for bankruptcy on Oct. 31. Adding insult to the injury: Of the 28% haircut, attorney and liquidation trustee James Giddens has frozen all asset classes, meaning that traders have sat helplessly as silver prices have dropped 31% since late August, and gold has fallen 16%. To boot, the traders are still being assessed fees for storage of the commodities...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bullion; commodities; corruption; corzine; gold; joncorzine; mfglobal; silver; theft
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1 posted on 12/17/2011 8:38:09 PM PST by blam
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To: blam

Mark


2 posted on 12/17/2011 8:42:15 PM PST by nkycincinnatikid
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To: blam

What are the chances that safety-deposit boxes in banks could be raided for the same purpose? (No wonder grandma buried hers in a mason jar in the garden.)


3 posted on 12/17/2011 8:43:03 PM PST by 21twelve
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To: 21twelve
FYI...

Mine are underground too.

4 posted on 12/17/2011 8:45:06 PM PST by blam
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To: blam

If you can’t roll around naked in your bullion or drop a bar on your toe, you don’t own it. You must physically posses it.


5 posted on 12/17/2011 8:46:20 PM PST by samadams2000 (Someone important make......The Call!)
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To: blam
"The regulators and the exchange are aghast, and are trying to imagine how to resolve and spin this to preserve investor confidence and prevent a run on the system."

I wonder how the markets will react Monday, (If they open Monday).

6 posted on 12/17/2011 8:50:16 PM PST by matthew fuller (Hey Buckwheat- What the Hell are we paying you for?...(GO LEROY!))
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To: 21twelve

They do it all the time.
Always an innocent mistake.
Always.
You had gold in that box?
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.
Of course you did.
HA Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha...
When we mistakenly emptied your box all we found was this chipped ashtray from the King David Hotel.
Here we saved it for you.


7 posted on 12/17/2011 8:50:45 PM PST by nkycincinnatikid
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To: nkycincinnatikid; blam

University of Texas Takes Delivery Of $1 Billion In Physical Gold

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2705999/posts

Zero Hedge ^ | 04/16/2011 | Tyler Durden
Posted on Sat Apr 16 2011 19:15:45 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by The Magical Mischief Tour


8 posted on 12/17/2011 8:55:03 PM PST by txhurl (Perry/Pence 2012 OR Perry/Ryan 2012 or even better Perry/Abbott 2012!)
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To: blam
Welcome to Obama's America. "You have no property rights!" says the Kenyan-in-Chief. No surprise that a far Left liberal was running this scam of a business.
9 posted on 12/17/2011 8:55:52 PM PST by Major Matt Mason (The Chicago Way isn't the American Way.)
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To: Track9

Saw this and thought, hmm...after our conversation last Tuesday about what Ann Barnhardt had to say, I thought you would be interested in reading this article.

Back in July 2008 I became concerned the stock market would crash. I talked my dad into closing out his investment accounts, paying the penalty, and putting all his money in hard gold, silver, and bank CDs.

It turned out to be the right thing to do.

The reason I mention it now is because the broker tried to talk dad into buying gold and storing it out of physical reach in some vault. We didn’t do that, and what has happened to these people in the article is an excellent example of why I think the way I do!


10 posted on 12/17/2011 8:58:54 PM PST by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS U.S.A. PRESIDENT)
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To: Major Matt Mason
Welcome to Obama's America. "You have no property rights!" says the Kenyan-in-Chief. No surprise that a far Left liberal was running this scam of a business.

Corzine stole the money because he knew he could get away with it.
And, of course, he did get away with it. (The dog-and-pony show at the Capitol was funny, though.)

11 posted on 12/17/2011 9:08:27 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: blam

Very Very Bad.

Ann Barnhart may turn out to be right about the impact of MF Global Failure. Next shoe to drop is the Derivatives market which MF Global was a large player in.


12 posted on 12/17/2011 9:08:44 PM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: SatinDoll

Thoughtful, thank you.


13 posted on 12/17/2011 9:09:07 PM PST by Track9
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To: blam

Well I for one am glad that Bill Clinton was paid mega-bucks as a “consultant” for the democrat party infested MF Global.

I am sure all the investors will receive that patented liberal treatment: You will be robbed blind by expert thieves.


14 posted on 12/17/2011 9:11:11 PM PST by FormerACLUmember
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To: 21twelve

The chances of that happening are about 100%.


15 posted on 12/17/2011 9:11:25 PM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: samadams2000

Exactly!!!

If you don’t got it, you don’t get it...[physically or mentally]


16 posted on 12/17/2011 9:11:58 PM PST by phockthis
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To: deport; null and void; dennisw; dfwgator

bling


17 posted on 12/17/2011 9:12:14 PM PST by txhurl (Perry/Pence 2012 OR Perry/Ryan 2012 or even better Perry/Abbott 2012!)
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To: All

Kill the men...
Kill the elves...
Save the gold...
For ourselves!!!


18 posted on 12/17/2011 9:12:45 PM PST by ak267
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To: samadams2000

“If you can’t pick it up and run with it, you don’t really own it.” Robert Heinlein.


19 posted on 12/17/2011 9:13:21 PM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: blam

But blam, Chairman Obama has already hired enough regulators so nobody would be “to big to fail.”

Corzine was a loyal Democrat, and - - - . Are all Democrats bad “persons, “ or just bad managers of other peoples money?

What is Chairman Obama going to do? Obama can’t hire more regulators, as he has already proven that it only encourages monetary failure. Obama can’t do anything himself, as he is incompetent on anything involving money, logic or personnel.

blam, what EVER is Chairman Obama going to do?!! Oops, I forgot. Problem solved! Chairman Obama is going to take a golfing vacation at a location that is far, far from legislation or frustration. Whatta guy!


20 posted on 12/17/2011 9:14:44 PM PST by Graewoulf (( obama"care" violates the 1890 Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND is illegal by the U.S. Constitution.))
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To: blam
In an oligarchy, private ownership is merely a concept, subject to interpretation and confiscation.

In an oligarchy, your life is merely a concept, subject to interpretation and confiscation.

21 posted on 12/17/2011 9:16:16 PM PST by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: Lurker
“If you can’t pick it up and run with it, you don’t really own it.”

Well, if it weighs 500 lbs...

22 posted on 12/17/2011 9:18:13 PM PST by ROCKLOBSTER ( Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: Travis McGee

You called it.


23 posted on 12/17/2011 9:20:35 PM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: blam

I think thats what we used to call ‘theft’........


24 posted on 12/17/2011 9:22:08 PM PST by Red Badger (Every child should have a meadow to play in..............)
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To: blam

Pure corruption for sure. Best thing these traders could have done is to have gold bullets made.


25 posted on 12/17/2011 9:27:23 PM PST by Revel
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To: blam

They are trying to crash the system, no doubt about it.


26 posted on 12/17/2011 9:43:30 PM PST by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! You can vote Democrat when you're dead.)
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To: Free Vulcan; blam

That’s been my suspicion about the “why” behind MF Global when I first read about their client’s missing money.


27 posted on 12/17/2011 9:51:05 PM PST by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS U.S.A. PRESIDENT)
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To: blam

Sounds like a serious heist.. convert to gold(precious metals) and they “disappear”...

Could a new genre of heisting.. “black collar crime”...
Convert company assets to gold and the gold evaporates.. like down a black hole..


28 posted on 12/17/2011 9:51:52 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: Mr. Jeeves

Congratulations sir. You get it.


29 posted on 12/17/2011 9:55:21 PM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: blam

It grow worse and worse.


30 posted on 12/17/2011 10:06:03 PM PST by razorback-bert (Some days it's not worth chewing through the straps.)
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To: Mr. Jeeves
In an oligarchy, your life is merely a concept, subject to interpretation and confiscation.

Precisely. It's the natural outcome of an outlook that sees human beings as nothing more than things, animals or machines.

31 posted on 12/17/2011 10:11:47 PM PST by Noumenon ("I tell you, gentlemen, we have a problem on our hands." Col. Nicholson-The Bridge on the River Qwai)
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To: hosepipe
Convert company assets to gold and the gold evaporates.. like down a black hole..

Oh the bullion is still there, the trustee wants to use some of it to pay other creditors, thus continuing the theft of customer assets.

32 posted on 12/17/2011 10:17:59 PM PST by Mike Darancette (Either Obama can beat any GOP candidate or no GOP candidate.)
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To: hosepipe
Convert company assets to gold and the gold evaporates.. like down a black hole..

Oh the bullion is still there, the trustee wants to use some of it to pay other creditors, thus continuing the theft of customer assets.

33 posted on 12/17/2011 10:19:21 PM PST by Mike Darancette (Either Obama can beat any GOP candidate or no GOP candidate.)
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To: Free Vulcan
They are trying to crash the system, no doubt about it.

Ayn Rand once said, “Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong.” In this case, the only premise that makes sense is that the SEC and other oversight agencies deliberately ignored the evidence handed to them on a silver platter. The question then becomes, "To what end?"

The answer to that question pops into perspective if we take a look at the outcomes of Bernie Madoff's crimes, which are in the final analysis, no different from those committed by Corzine and his cronies. In brief, the damage they did went far beyond the theft of peoples' life savings and investments. First of all, they did enormous damage to a number of charitable, cultural and civic organizations, deeply impairing their ability to function. Second - and I believe that this was the primary goal - to damage the fundamental trust that people held in common.

Let's take a look at the notion of trust from Francis Fukuyama's point of view. There is much that one can dispute about Fukuyama's analysis of trust, but if we look at what Corzine and Madoff actually did, they broke down the degree of trust necessary for what Fukuyama characterized as a 'high-trust' society. According to Fukuyama, a high trust society permitted the development of modern capitalist structures. Virtually every transaction we make depends upon the trust that we hold in common that our contracts will be honored, from the simple handshake to the most complex of legal agreements. Undermine that trust and you get... what? Chaos? Lawlessness? Sure, Fukuyama's a stopped clock who's right twice a day. But he is right in this case.

And then the question becomes, "Qui bono?" The answer will be found on the Gramsci-Alinsky axis and Quigley's Pakistani-Peruvian Axis. The destruction of trust, the pervasive corruption that many now almost dismiss with a shrug - it's part of the second phase of Gramsci's method what he termed "destabilization". Again, qui bono?.

Finally, the question that should haunt us all is, "then what?" No one seems to want to answer that one, much less think about it. For it requires you to think the unthinkable, doesn't it?

34 posted on 12/17/2011 10:23:34 PM PST by Noumenon ("I tell you, gentlemen, we have a problem on our hands." Col. Nicholson-The Bridge on the River Qwai)
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To: SatinDoll; Free Vulcan

Jim Sinclair is saying they crashed MF on purpose because they were the “clearing house” for funds that were aimed towards futures options on gold and silver which were settleable in November.

So many funds, in fact, that Comex and CME would have defaulted - they didn’t have enough metal.

Look how Celente got burned! They basically stole his money that he was standing for delivery with!

That’s been the game all along. The futures market is so rigged, it’s ridiculous.


35 posted on 12/17/2011 10:24:22 PM PST by djf (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2801220/posts)
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To: Texas Fossil
"Ann Barnhart may turn out to be right about the impact of MF Global Failure. "

Operative words: "Global Failure"

yitbos

36 posted on 12/17/2011 10:26:28 PM PST by bruinbirdman ("Those who control language control minds." -- Ayn Rand)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
Well, if it weighs 500 lbs...

Then you're anchored to it and they know where you are.
You'd better be prepared to kill all comers.
In fact, as the Empire crumbles, this will go on until people do take matters into their own hands.
The question is, who do you have to kill to keep your deposits?

(Before FDIC, banks defaulted all the time and the National Guard made sure the banksters got out of town safely.)
37 posted on 12/17/2011 10:28:48 PM PST by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (REPEAL WASHINGTON! -- Islam Delenda Est! -- I Want Constantinople Back. -- Rumble thee forth.)
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To: Noumenon

Few understand Gramsci or Alinsky tactics and agendas..
Cloward-Piven although Beck championed displaying it/them.. is not displayed even on FOX..

Nowhere is this talked about.. Newt mentioned it “in passing”..
This stuff is radio-active.. no one wants to mention it..
Probably because they do not understand it fully..

There is need for “someone” to simplify this stuff..
Beyond it is a nasty and poisonous malfeance..
On FOX probably O’Really would block any mention of it..


38 posted on 12/17/2011 10:37:20 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: djf

The following is from http://www.barnhardt.biz

On Sychophants, Process Servers & Decoupling
Posted by Ann Barnhardt - December 15, AD 2011 9:38 PM MST

[The BASIS is the relationship between the cash market and the futures market and is very simply defined as (CASH minus FUTURES)].

“The lynchpin that is holding this dynamic together and keeping the futures markets tied to the underlying cash market is the fact that the futures contracts are deliverable, and a trader can either deliver or take delivery of actual physical silver via his futures position.”

***********************************

This crashes the system, doesn’t it?


39 posted on 12/17/2011 10:44:43 PM PST by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS U.S.A. PRESIDENT)
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To: SatinDoll

Pretty much, yup.

At least it destroys any idea of the futures market being a reliable “price discovery mechanism” that it is often touted as.


40 posted on 12/17/2011 10:50:17 PM PST by djf (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2801220/posts)
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To: blam
All customers ought to have known that Comex exchange rules make electronic warehouse receipts unallocated, meaning that there is no direct ownership and that the customer is merely an unsecured creditor in a bankruptcy of the exchange member, in this case MF Global. MF Global at all times had full use of the clients balance for their own purposes. No doubt Corzine et al was relying upon this and customer ignorance about it. The complaints in the Forbes article, which included lawyers who should have, or perhaps did, know better, are an example. Perhaps it is all grandstanding.

I don't recommend holding gold in your basement. Gold should be held as ALLOCATED 400 ounce London good delivery bars, worth about $640,000 each with one of the seven members of the LBMA who are dealers, assayers and storage houses. These are five major banks plus Brinks and Via Mat. Storage and insurance on this basis is cheaper, totaling around 0.12% per year, plus these bars are the most liquid/tradeable form. My preference is HSBC.

41 posted on 12/17/2011 10:51:42 PM PST by Kennard
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To: djf

So how does corrupting the commodities markets cause the rest of the markets to slither into an abyss?


42 posted on 12/17/2011 10:55:00 PM PST by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS U.S.A. PRESIDENT)
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To: Kennard

Kennie, that’s no fun!

24K coins, whatever the size, can be placed in 18k bezels and attached to bracelets, cufflinks, necklaces, buttons, you name it - but I wouldn’t wear them out and about in certain venues lest one be mugged.

I’m particularly fond of the small gold coins minted by the Isle of Mann, the ones with the different cat breeds on them.


43 posted on 12/17/2011 11:00:13 PM PST by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS U.S.A. PRESIDENT)
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To: blam
MF Global calls into question the entire capitalist system. At least, as far as it goes beyond two-party transactions, i.e., you buy shares in X.

If your broker can pledge and lose your assets, and you can't recover, then the brokerage system is broken to the point of unusability.

Bernie needs a room mate. Governor Corzine should fill the bill. But then, we'll have to let them both out, since a broken capitalism can't afford prison screws! (not to mention their pensions.)

44 posted on 12/17/2011 11:01:41 PM PST by cynwoody
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To: SatinDoll

A lot of production planning estimates are based on perceived or actual future availability.

For instance might a farmer plow a lot of land to plant if he is unsure of how much fertilizer will cost him?

This type of thinking practice also gets magnified by JIT methods.


45 posted on 12/17/2011 11:03:35 PM PST by djf (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2801220/posts)
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To: SatinDoll
I’m particularly fond of the small gold coins minted by the Isle of Mann, the ones with the different cat breeds on them.

And diamonds are a girl's best friend.

46 posted on 12/17/2011 11:05:55 PM PST by Kennard
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To: Noumenon
Finally, the question that should haunt us all is, "then what?" No one seems to want to answer that one, much less think about it. For it requires you to think the unthinkable, doesn't it?

Not that I am encouraging any illegal act or retaliation, but this sort of thing will continue until some of the thieves end up like the coyote hanging on a fence. It acts as a deterrent to those who might otherwise consider unacceptable acts.

47 posted on 12/17/2011 11:14:15 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: blam
LOL, investing in “gold stocks” or other paper based precious metal schemes. If I were to legally purchase 10 Smith and Wesson revolvers, but keep them locked up in the safe at the gun store “for safe keeping”, does anybody think they will be there for me to retrieve if the SHTF??? Gold is only Gold if you hold it in your hands.
48 posted on 12/17/2011 11:26:04 PM PST by Lockbar (March toward the sound of the guns.)
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To: blam

What? Won’t the govt bail out people that lost a high percentage of their investments.....roflmfao.


49 posted on 12/17/2011 11:33:46 PM PST by runninglips (Republicans = 99 lb weaklings of politics. ProgressiveRepublicansInConservativeCostume)
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To: blam

‘There came into Egypt a Pharaoh who did not know.’
—Wall Street

Everything old is new again and there is nothing new under the sun. Read Silver Bulls by Paul Sarnoff and some of the musings of Sherman Skolnick (RIP) of Chicago.

Skolnick was a ‘Judge Buster’ in Chicago. When I say Judge Buster, I’m not talking about someone who takes down some night court judge who fixes parking tickets. Skolnick would take down crooked Federal Appellate Judges in Chicago in the early 1970’s.

He also wrote the definitive account of the United Airlines crash which killed the wife of E. Howard Hunt.


50 posted on 12/18/2011 12:02:06 AM PST by bigoil (Study Thy Nixon)
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