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The Beginning of the End of the 9-to-5 Workday?
Time/Yahoo ^ | 12-21-2011 | DAN SCHAWBEL

Posted on 12/21/2011 6:07:22 PM PST by Darren McCarty

The traditional eight-hour workday may soon be the exception rather than the rule. New evidence shows that we're reaching a tipping point in terms of workplace flexibility, with businesses seeing the wisdom of allowing employees -- young employees especially -- to work odd hours, telecommute, and otherwise tweak the usual 9-to-5 grind.

One of the top 12 trends for 2012 as named by the communications firm Euro RSCG Worldwide is that employees in the Gen-Y or "millennial" demographic -- those born between roughly 1982 and 1993 -- are overturning the traditional workday.

The Business and Professional Women's Foundation estimates that by 2025, 75% of the global workforce will be Gen-Y. As early as next year, this group of younger Americans will already comprise 60% of the employees at companies such as Ernst & Young. And increasingly, companies creating workplace flexibility programs because it makes good business sense, not in the least because that's what their employees demand.

Gen-Y is spearheading this change because they don't want the same work environment their parents had. Between new technology and global workplace dynamics, companies are implementing flexible work arrangements for everyone, inclusive of Gen-Y. A recent Vodafone UK survey illustrates that 90 percent of employers enable work flexibility instead of sticking to traditional hours.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: diy; nosale; selfsufficiency; starvethebeast; work
Here's a different side of "flexible hours."

As a CEO, treasurer, chief cook, and bottlewasher, I'm expected to work when needed, period. If not, I'm out of business, because I don't get paid.

If I have a meeting at 7AM, guess where I'm at at 7AM. If I have a meeting at 10PM, guess where I'm at at 10PM. If I have a ton of work and little time because of deadlines, I can go from 7AM to 2AM and be up the next morning at 7AM to make sure I beat the 5PM deadline. It sucks then, but not when I collect my fees and gain a repeat customer for good work.

Weekends and weekdays are the same with me, which has advantages and disadvantages. I can sometimes take a quick vacation during the week and not have to fight the traffic and get work done during the weekend. Most of my meetings are on weekends because my customers and potential customers have the traditional job hours and can't take time off work. Flexible hours......

The bottom line is this. I do my job well, or someone else will do it. If I charge too much for the job or don't work fast or accurate enough for the price I charge, I'm out of business. Fired. Done. Game over, man.

Some folks need to man up...or if in you're in my line of work, don't man up. I'll take your business.

1 posted on 12/21/2011 6:07:26 PM PST by Darren McCarty
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To: Darren McCarty
"those born between roughly 1982 and 1993 -- are overturning the traditional workday"

The hell they are.

If they want to work for a traditional, MONEY MAKING business...especially in my shop...they need to earn the privilege of telecommuting.

The exception is that I allow them to telecommute after working hours...you know, for those occasional 70hr weeks.

2 posted on 12/21/2011 6:11:19 PM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Darren McCarty

I like my work hours just the way they are, thank you - ZERO!


3 posted on 12/21/2011 6:11:19 PM PST by Graybeard58 (No Obama, No Romney, No Paul, No Huntsman. We can do better than that!)
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To: Darren McCarty
“Gen-Y is spearheading this change because they don't want the same work environment their parents had.”

You won't.

(We didn't work for the Chinese or the Indians. You will. I'm sure they'll be very “flexible” with your time.

4 posted on 12/21/2011 6:13:09 PM PST by I cannot think of a name
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To: Darren McCarty

The last few corporations I worked for supported flexible schedules.

And why wouldn’t they?

The technology and the implicit expectation is that you will work 12 hour days.

It seems most of the people I work with are never separated from work but always “in touch” with what is or may be going on.

It’s by design. The government wants you enslaved one way or the other. Good little employees seldom protest the policies that are making those employees work twice as hard and long.


5 posted on 12/21/2011 6:13:59 PM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival. (Karl Denninger has jumped the shark. Do not visit his blog.))
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To: Darren McCarty

I’d LOVE to work 8 hours a day.. any 8 and make enough to feed my family and cover my low 600 a month living expenses...

But I work 10-16 most days to do that now.

It is 8 pm here, and I am headed to my second job..


6 posted on 12/21/2011 6:14:31 PM PST by cableguymn
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To: Darren McCarty

That’s why you’re in the one percent! [snort!]


7 posted on 12/21/2011 6:19:05 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (You can't invade the US. There'd be a rifle behind every blade of grass.~Admiral Yamamoto)
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To: Darren McCarty

Good luck running any kind of production with workers who show up when they feel like it.

When I started my last factory job I worked 12 hours per day, 7 days a week for the first 4 months before seeing my first day off. Its also a big part of the reason I made foreman inside of a year and a half.


8 posted on 12/21/2011 6:19:08 PM PST by cripplecreek (Stand with courage or shut up and do as you're told.)
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To: cableguymn

I am sorry to hear you have two jobs, but your expenses are 600 dollars a month and your first job can’t cover those small expenses? I wish you the best. You are being very underpaid in your first job big time!!! God Bless and Merry Christmas.


9 posted on 12/21/2011 6:20:50 PM PST by napscoordinator (Anybody but Romney, Newt, Perry, Huntsman, Paul. Perry and Obama are 100 percent the same!!!!!)
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To: Darren McCarty

I am working in the Alaska Bush. It is a 4 weeks on, 2 weeks off. For the 4 weeks I am on I get paid and work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. For the 2 weeks I am off I dont get paid anything.

That is old school Gen-X work hours. Gold does not mine itself over the phone. Its rock delivered, crushed and concentrated that works.


10 posted on 12/21/2011 6:22:52 PM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: Darren McCarty
Which eight hours do you want me to work, boss? We have customers all over the world, and we sell our services twenty-four hours a day, 365 days a year (366 during Leap Year). So the support staff is on call all the time.

The reality is that I work when I'm needed, regardless of where the sun is in relation to my location. When I'm not needed by customers, I either do my own thing, or "side work" for the company. Indeed, many times I do my work in my living room instead of going to the office, so I can get back to bed that much faster when I get called in the inky blackness of night.

Hurry-up-and-wait. That's my job, man.

11 posted on 12/21/2011 6:26:25 PM PST by asinclair (Talk is cheap, actions are priceless)
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To: cripplecreek
Generally 12 hours a day is what it takes to keep up. Weekends are also in the mix. Lucky the kids are grown up. Not complaining, lots of Californians lining up to take my job.

Need another Ronald Regan to open up the job market to set things back in the workers' favor. 16% unemployment makes an employer cocky.

12 posted on 12/21/2011 6:27:57 PM PST by caltaxed
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To: napscoordinator

One is on call.. The other pays very decent but is only 4 hours a night.

Both are contract work, so after taxes.. (I get to pay ALL of them of course) there is not much left.


13 posted on 12/21/2011 6:29:04 PM PST by cableguymn
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To: Darren McCarty
I've never had a 9-to-5 job in my life.

The job takes whatever it takes.

14 posted on 12/21/2011 6:30:43 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (FOREIGN AID: A transfer of money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries)
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To: cripplecreek

That’s a factory environment. Totally different than an information technology environment. If i’m a programmer for instance, and can be just as productive working at home as I can at the office, then why not let me work elsewhere? And whatever hours I want.

It’s about productivity...getting done what you’re expected to get done. It increasingly doesn’t matter WHERE you do it, or how many hours it takes you to get it done. If you can bust your hump and crank out 8 hours worth of work in 4 hours, then why shouldn’t you reap the rewards of a few hours of free time?

And after 25 years of working in an office environment, the amount of wasted time I’ve seen from people who are supposedly “working” 10 hour days is pretty significant.


15 posted on 12/21/2011 6:32:03 PM PST by bigdaddy45
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To: Darren McCarty
I've been on a high priority project for the past 2 1/2 years. There were many weeks when I worked 7 days a week. Most days start at 8 AM and end at some time between 6:30 PM and 9 PM as the workload dictates. When the "away team" is installing software on central time, the San Diego crew arrives ready to work at 7 AM to support them. We take all the "trouble reports" we can swallow, fix them and push another release out in morning with a list of verified fixes.

My project manager recruited some good new staff in the 20 to 25 year old range. Those of us in the 50+ age range are "grooming" those hires to carry the project into the future. They are certainly willing and able. The project has never been a 9 to 5 "powder puff" assignment. We all knew what we signed up to do. The new staff comes in well polished in Java and needing to spin up on C/C++/Ada and FORTRAN to handle the old code base. X11/Motif as well. The new paradigm is web oriented, so we have a "fusion" between old and new as the project continues into the new world. The "old guys" grew up with the web. We already know that technology inside out. We invented most of it.

16 posted on 12/21/2011 6:37:55 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: cripplecreek

Don’t you know? The Gen-Y or whatever expect “someone else” to actually MAKE things from the raw materials of the earth. In their little fantasy worlds, oil just jumps out of the ground as ready-to-use gasoline, trees turn themselves into paper, pulp, furniture, and food just falls from heaven, prepackedged of course.

The vast vast vast majority of people have zero idea of how anything is created. They are able to live very very well drawing pretty powerpoint charts, talking loudly, cutting “deals”, shaking hands, and getting to know the “right” people.


17 posted on 12/21/2011 6:38:42 PM PST by Clock King (Ellisworth Toohey was right: My head's gonna explode.)
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To: Darren McCarty
One of the top 12 trends for 2012 as named by the communications firm Euro RSCG Worldwide is that employees in the Gen-Y or "millennial" demographic -- those born between roughly 1982 and 1993 -- are overturning the traditional workday.

Yea, mainly by living in their mom's basement, getting up at noon and going to check in for their union paid protesting gig until mommy calls them home for dinner.

18 posted on 12/21/2011 6:39:40 PM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: Darren McCarty
Oh boo-hoo...how terrible for you...

rolls eyes.

19 posted on 12/21/2011 6:41:11 PM PST by Michael Barnes (Obamaa+ Downgrade)
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To: Darren McCarty

How about we ALL just don’t work, collect the $20/hr. that OWS says is fair, whether you work or not? Sounds like a plan (don’t know how it’s funded, but that’s a minor detail to them)..


20 posted on 12/21/2011 6:42:07 PM PST by traditional1 (Free speech for me.....not for thee)
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To: Darren McCarty

I work 6 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. at a local factory and am mighty glad to be employed. It’s not the most fun job ever BUT I am done with it when I clock out and home before the kids get off the bus.

When we had dairy cows, we only worked partial days ... we could pick whichever 12 or 16 or 18 hours we wanted to work.;-)


21 posted on 12/21/2011 6:42:33 PM PST by Cloverfarm (This too shall pass ...)
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To: bigdaddy45
My boss sent me home with 1.4 million lines of C++ code. It came from SPARC Solaris on a Forte compiler. Code that was 20 years old. My task was to renovate the code and Makefiles so that it would build properly on Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5.4 on X86 32-bit. I estimated 5,000 lines a day from some industry "fudge factors". Working at home, I ported all of it at the rate of 19,000 lines/day using my own computers at home. Nobody wasted my time yapping at my door or calling me into meetings. No time was lost commuting to/from the office. No time wasted for lunch. I grabbed a bite and ate the food in the time it took for another compilation phase.

That 1.4 million lines of code is part of a delivery of 2.4 million lines of code that includes C/C++/Ada/FORTRAN that is on the customer site now. Delivered with no defects reported by the customer. I'm sitting back at home for the holidays. My 3rd visit home in 2011. Less than 3 weeks home all year by New Year's Eve. Another porting task at home would be much nicer than having to rent a room in San Diego to keep going on the current tasking.

22 posted on 12/21/2011 6:47:43 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: Darren McCarty

I work from 7a-5p, Mo-Th. The early morning hours are worth the 3 day weekends.


23 posted on 12/21/2011 6:54:18 PM PST by Paradox (The rich SHOULD be paying more taxes, and they WOULD, if they could make more money.)
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To: Darren McCarty

I telecommute, and I’m very thankful for the opportunity (I have MS and couldn’t make it into the workplace everyday.)

That being said, there are advantage for my employer. I’m available morning, noon, and night, if a problem arises...plus weekends. Not really a problem for me because I’m home most of the time. And there is flexibility, I can take breaks when needed, and make it to doctor appts. etc. So it works for me and for my employer.

I know I’m much more productive from home than I’d be in the office. No distractions, so I get more done in a shorter period of time.

Last time I was hospitalized I worked while recuperating, from the hospital. I think that qualified me as the most “loyal” employee...I didn’t really do it out of loyalty, but out of boredom during the hospital stay, :)


24 posted on 12/21/2011 6:54:22 PM PST by dawn53
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To: Mariner; All

You are one of those people that is still stuck in the old ways.

I find it absurd that bosses insist everyone come in to do a job they could do at home while avoiding the highway traffic.

No one should have to “earn” this right. If you are hired, it’s a given UNLESS your work starts to suffer.

Some jobs can’t be done via telecommuting, but a lot can. I used to be a writer, and it was completely insane that I had to drive in to do that job all because my older bosses were stuck in the old ways. Heck, I have software that pulled up my work desktop on my home machine when necessary.


25 posted on 12/21/2011 6:55:40 PM PST by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: Darren McCarty

Well not all of us are CEO’s. I can work from anywhere as long as I have my laptop and blackberry. I’m currently working from home.

My job does not require me to sit in a specific building with a supervisor looking over my shoulder.

Many parts of my job can be done at any hour of the day.

Not all jobs can do that, but mine can and does and it works just fine.


26 posted on 12/21/2011 6:56:01 PM PST by mom4melody
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To: cableguymn

My Christmas Wish is that you find a better job. You are doing a great job providing for your family. I am just sorry that you have an a hole in the White House causing you stress that you don’t need. Merry Christmas and God Bless!!!!!


27 posted on 12/21/2011 7:02:32 PM PST by napscoordinator (Anybody but Romney, Newt, Perry, Huntsman, Paul. Perry and Obama are 100 percent the same!!!!!)
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To: Darren McCarty

I love this, because it’s dead on. My first job out of college (in 2001) allowed telecommuting twice weekly and was a very flexible workplace overall. My most recent job allowed absolutely no working from home, no flex time, no flexibility whatsoever. Guess what? I worked about twice the hours for the first job...in exchange for the freedom, I worked harder, while “on vacation,” etc. For the last job, once 5:00 hit, I was done, and I never once even checked my email while out of the office.


28 posted on 12/21/2011 7:04:32 PM PST by LittleSpotBlog
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To: Darren McCarty

We’re self-employed, you do whatever needs to be done whenever it needs to be done or you go broke.


29 posted on 12/21/2011 7:28:59 PM PST by tiki
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To: Darren McCarty
"those born between roughly 1982 and 1993"

They don't do anything anyway. Who the hell cares if they don't come to work? Most older workers wish they wouldn't. You can get more done.

30 posted on 12/21/2011 7:30:42 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (Stop BIG Government Greed Now!!!!)
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To: Darren McCarty

Typically, it’s the over 60 crowd that I see married to the 9-5 workday, or even the 5 day, 50 weeks out of the year work week. No one really wants to work that way. We’ve been enjoying an extended vacation here, since my wife accrued 400hrs of vacation time which has to be used before the 1st of the year. She sold the maximum 200hrs back to the company for cash, and took 5 weeks off. That’s the 21st century way of doing things.


31 posted on 12/21/2011 7:57:13 PM PST by Melas (u)
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To: Darren McCarty

I like this post. As a business owner, I’m manning up.

Just pray you’re not in my area, providing Systems Analysis and Project Management. I saw your schedule, You’re a slacker :)

I got the 1 am call this week on the death of a client. I worked until 10pm - But had other appointments. So I had a full 20 hour day, and a car FULL of coffee cups.


32 posted on 12/21/2011 7:57:38 PM PST by Celerity
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To: Darren McCarty
sorry, but... 9 to 5 is NOT an 8 hour work day unless you work through your lunch hour

EIGHT to 5 is an 8 hour work day... i should know, i used to work 8 to 5 till the boy slithered his way into office, now i work 9 to 5 due to cutbacks

33 posted on 12/21/2011 8:17:42 PM PST by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Darren McCarty

I’m 59 and just coming off of an almost 2-year contract. about 16 months of that was 90 percent work-at-home. It’s great to start the workday at 4:00 a.m. or 5:30 some days and to hold telephone meetings supplemented by online meeting software. I have worked between 3:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m. depending on the circumstances. I’ve had meetings at 7:30 p.m. I’ve written reports on the weekends. And in general I have not exceeded 40 hours in any but 3 or 4 weeks in the two years.

The flexibility is an enormous benefit as my kind of work is not always linear.


34 posted on 12/21/2011 8:36:31 PM PST by jimfree (In Nov 2012 my 11 y/o granddaughter will have more relevant executive experience than Barack Obama)
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To: caltaxed

Like you I haven’t experienced the 8 hour workday and I don’t get paid for overtime. Thanks to our nation’s free trade my company’s Chinese competitors have free access to my US customers and benefit from slave labor, zero environmental regulations, government subsidized capital, and export subsidies. At the same time any attempts I make to export are met with a mountain of red tape.

No fear because my government sends a parade of OSHA, EPA, labor and IRS people in every year to make sure the company and it’s workers are obeying the millions of regulations we have no time to read. On top of that my customers pay in advance for their Asian goods while demanding extended payment terms and liberal return policies from thei US suppliers. Of course the high volume, high profit production runs go to Asia while te low volume tricky to make specialty products are given to the remaining US suppliers. If we make a mistake our customers take a big deduction. If our Chinese competitors make a mistake tey get more prepaid orders.

One day we will close and 400 non union US middle class workers will draw unemployment. Isn’t free market global capitalism grand?


35 posted on 12/21/2011 9:12:23 PM PST by Soul of the South (When times are tough the tough get going.)
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To: napscoordinator

Part of the problem is the cost of fuel (and taxes) I am paid a flat rate for what I do. Fuel goes up and I can try to get a better rate but there is 500 other out of work guys with vans willing to do it.

I have been building my own customer base so hopefully I can tell um to pucker up and kiss my behind soon :)

Thanks!


36 posted on 12/21/2011 9:18:27 PM PST by cableguymn
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To: I cannot think of a name

We didn’t work for the Chinese or the Indians. You will. I’m sure they’ll be very “flexible” with your time.


The entire world may need to rethink the 40 hour work day when all the factories are fully automated. China and India will not be immune. What happens when there is simply not enough work to keep workers doing things? Something is going to change, it could be a much smaller work week for most of the work force that is not in the service industry.


37 posted on 12/21/2011 9:29:49 PM PST by Gen-X-Dad
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To: Darren McCarty

Salary means “get it done”, not “9-5”.


38 posted on 12/21/2011 9:31:23 PM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: Darren McCarty

Good luck with that telecommute when someone in Peoria or Mumbai is happy to the job for a half or a tenth of your wage.

Be indispensible.


39 posted on 12/21/2011 9:50:53 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Author of BullionBible.com - Makes You a Precious Metal Expert, Guaranteed.)
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To: rwfromkansas
"I used to be a writer"

So tell us, what are you now"?

Isn't it true that he who has the business, the signature on the check, gets to make the rules?

I pay folks between $50 and $100 an hour.

If I say jump, they better damn well say "how high".

We're making money, they're making money.

If you don't do it MY way, get another job somewhere else.

Period.

40 posted on 12/21/2011 10:21:41 PM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Darren McCarty

I hate the term “9-5” because if you take even just 15 minutes a day for lunch and work 5 days a week you only “work” 38.75 hours a week.

Quit whining.


41 posted on 12/21/2011 10:24:42 PM PST by Fledermaus (I'll vote for Mitt Romney when Hell freezes over. He'd be as bad as Obama.)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

I agree. Technology is supposed to free us from servitude, however politics and the type of people who become politicians hasn’t changed. They keep piling up the debt and suppressing economic growth, all the while blaming the problem on others.


42 posted on 12/21/2011 10:27:46 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Mariner

What industry are you in?


43 posted on 12/21/2011 10:34:46 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (You can't invade the US. There'd be a rifle behind every blade of grass.~Admiral Yamamoto)
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To: bigdaddy45
In my case, it comes down to required deadlines. The work must be done by date/time x, which is usually set by a third party. Missing deadlines carries severe monetary penalties to my customers and by extension I am liable for damages. The hours don't matter as long as it's done by date x. Usually a week, sometimes less. The size of the job always varies. I've done $100 jobs that took me two hours. Others took the entire week where I'm at my desk 15 hours a day from Sunday/Monday, rushing to finish and upload by 5PM on that next Friday.

Those harsh deadlines in my work are what repulsed me with the article, especially the parts further down about social media demands. I'm not only the president, but also the labor, and if I'm spending time on facebook during a deadline week, I'm in big trouble.

44 posted on 12/21/2011 10:43:34 PM PST by Darren McCarty (Anybody but Romney or Obama)
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To: rwfromkansas

If I’m hiring I’d hire for x dollars per project. I’d have two rules as this is all behind the scenes work. Rule one is to keep the mouths shut about the information. Rule two is to get the work done on time and accurate before the deadline. The rest I wouldn’t care about. The work itself can be done anywhere in front of a computer.


45 posted on 12/21/2011 10:50:36 PM PST by Darren McCarty (Anybody but Romney or Obama)
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To: tiki
We’re self-employed

Another CEO, treasurer, chief cook, and bottle washer. :)

46 posted on 12/21/2011 10:52:20 PM PST by Darren McCarty (Anybody but Romney or Obama)
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To: Darren McCarty

I like 9-5. I can plan around it.

Once employers allow flexible hours, they will expect flexible hours. I worked splith shifts in retaurants for years and it sucks. You work 4 hours on 3 hours off and 4 hours on. You accomplish nothing in your 3 hours off, but you end your work day 11 hours after starting, with not a penny of overtime.

Just wait until these kids are expected to work shorter hours but 6 days a week with no over time. Split shifts. Staggered shifts. Moving shifts.

I love a 9-5 work week. Good luck with this, kids. The potential for employee abuse is endless.

Some people will really benefit from this flexibility, such as people who can almost be independent consultants providing their employer with a stand alone work product the create. Good luck to those who need a physical presence or have to deal directly with customers. This could get ugly.


47 posted on 12/22/2011 12:25:46 PM PST by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (We be fooked.)
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