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Pakistan military hid Osama in Abbottabad: Ex-army chief
msnbc ^ | 12/24/11 | msnbc

Posted on 12/24/2011 6:11:40 AM PST by Flavius

Washington: Pakistani military had harboured Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden with the knowledge of former president General Pervez Musharraf, former army chief General Ziauddin Butt has said.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.in.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: binladen; butt; musharraf; news; obl; pakitrash; pervezmusharraf; ziauddinbutt

1 posted on 12/24/2011 6:11:43 AM PST by Flavius
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To: Flavius

Since before 9-11?

They were certainly prescient.


2 posted on 12/24/2011 6:18:50 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Flavius

3 posted on 12/24/2011 6:33:40 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Ceterum autem censeo, Obama delenda est.)
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To: yldstrk
Since before 9-11?

The U.S. wanted Osama bin Laden for the Cole attack and the Kobar towers prior to 9-11. We had been warned. We knew their intentions and capabilities.

The shoe search shuffle is unnecessary and ridiculous. 9-11 would not have happened if U.S. airlines had kept the flight deck doors locked.

4 posted on 12/24/2011 6:36:28 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Ceterum autem censeo, Obama delenda est.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Then what was that attack in the mountains aboutn where OBL was “hiding in a cave”?

Yeah, we know Clintoon should have had him thrown in the hoosegow and the key put down the garbage disposal. Wonder how much he got paid to look the other way?


5 posted on 12/24/2011 6:39:34 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Flavius

Is anyone really surprised by this? The notion that Pakistan is our “ally” is a textbook example of the Big Lie. Meanwhile, in the 10 years since 9/11, we let them dramatically increase their nuclear arsenal. I suspect that threat of a Pakistani-made nuke in an American city was the prime motivation behind this sham in the first place.


6 posted on 12/24/2011 6:50:25 AM PST by rbg81
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To: yldstrk
Osama was clearly living in the Kabul version of the Hyannisport “compound” at the time of 9-11. Sudan had offered to turn him over to the U.S. but Clinton declined, probably because he didn't want all the attendant headaches, including annoying his base among the left-loons and increased terrorist attacks in retaliation. To the Democrats, terrorism was a nuisance, not an existential threat.
7 posted on 12/24/2011 6:52:13 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Ceterum autem censeo, Obama delenda est.)
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To: rbg81

Huge war coming.


8 posted on 12/24/2011 6:58:38 AM PST by kjo
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To: rbg81
Is anyone really surprised by this? The notion that Pakistan is our “ally” is a textbook example of the Big Lie.

Probably foisted by the State Department as a pretext that they are a buffer against Chinese imperialism in that area. Just my guess.

9 posted on 12/24/2011 7:00:25 AM PST by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: kjo
Huge war coming.

The war has been put off for ten years, during which time we have wasted time, blood, and treasure. We are much weaker now than we were in September 2001.

I understand why Bush did it, but it was a mistake, anyway.

10 posted on 12/24/2011 7:03:05 AM PST by Jim Noble ("The Germans: At your feet, or at your throat" - Winston Churchill)
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To: Jim Noble
The war has been put off for ten years, during which time we have wasted time, blood, and treasure. We are much weaker now than we were in September 2001.

Lots of truth in those statements. Thanks, and Merry Christmas.

11 posted on 12/24/2011 7:05:51 AM PST by exit82 (Democrats are the enemies of freedom. We have ideas-the Dems only have ideology.)
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To: Don Corleone

Personally, I think India is a far better, more reliable bulkward against Chinese imperialism than Pakistan ever would be. And their a pretty good bulkward against Pakistani imperialism too.

We could have nipped Chinese imperialism in the bud years ago by trading with them less—and not knowingly transfering our technology and manufacturing plants to them.

But I guess the genuises at the State Dept never considered THAT.


12 posted on 12/24/2011 7:17:06 AM PST by rbg81
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To: rbg81
We could have nipped Chinese imperialism in the bud years ago by trading with them less—

*************

IIRC....

The Klintoon insisted on more than occasion that Congress grant to China "most favored nation" trading status...

Not to mention that LORAL satellite guidance thingy...

X42 has been on the take all his life...
.... eventually the telling of history will disclose everything....

13 posted on 12/24/2011 7:37:41 AM PST by Wings-n-Wind (The main things are the plain things!)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

The week our Cruise Missiles missed Bin Laden in Afghanistan, Cohen and Clinton went on MTP and stated that no one knew of our attempt to take out Bin Laden and it was an entire stealth mission. Remember, Pakistan and India were fighting at the time and if we hadn’t warned them of the impending attack, Pakistan would have thought the missiles were from India and a war would have been the consequence. Cohen lied on MTP and several news outlets because they had told Pakistan and subsequently Pakistan had warned Bin Laden. I even called my Senator about this.


14 posted on 12/24/2011 7:52:33 AM PST by vetvetdoug
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To: Jim Noble

Your time line is off badly.

The war began in 1991 and was prosecuted daily by Bill Clinton from air bases in Saudi Arabia.

The invasion in 2003 was an escalation, not a beginning. The escalation was because Saddam did not comply with UN resolutions and violated sanctions.


15 posted on 12/24/2011 7:57:17 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ..... Crucifixion is coming)
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To: rbg81
Is anyone really surprised by this? The notion that Pakistan is our “ally” is a textbook example of the Big Lie. Meanwhile, in the 10 years since 9/11, we let them dramatically increase their nuclear arsenal. I suspect that threat of a Pakistani-made nuke in an American city was the prime motivation behind this sham in the first place.

Bush twisted their arm to force them to act like "reluctant allies" with the assurance that they would not be one of our targets. He called them allies in public to allow them to save a little face. Nobody in their right mind would consider them any sort of ally, they were just restrained from taking any sort of overt military action to deter our efforts. I'm sure the Bush Administration was well aware of the more or less passive agression.

Sadly, Obama wasn't smart enough to understand the tense relationship and openly called Pakistan an enemy during his campaign, which only ensured that they would take a more active role in screwing with us, especially the military generals.

16 posted on 12/24/2011 8:29:00 AM PST by trebb ("If a man will not work, he should not eat" From 2 Thes 3)
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To: Flavius

The Butts are a famous military family in Pakistan. I believe they’re related to the Asses that run our military.


17 posted on 12/24/2011 9:07:00 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: bert

If you were to be brutally honest, the “war” actually started well over a thousand years ago...this is just an inevitable continuation, and possibly conclusion, of the Ottoman empire.


18 posted on 12/24/2011 9:19:24 AM PST by fuzzylogic (welfare state = sharing consequences of poor moral choices among everybody)
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To: vetvetdoug

I seriously doubt that the Pakistanis could have done much about cruise missiles or even reliably detected them. There would have been scattered reports of low flying aircraft, followed by a loud BOOM in Kabul. They might suspect, they would surely accuse everyone, but they would have been as in the dark as anyone.


19 posted on 12/24/2011 10:02:19 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Ceterum autem censeo, Obama delenda est.)
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To: bert

“the war began in 1991”

Depends on which war you mean. I’m talking about the Wahabi-Deobandi war on America whose first engagement was on 9/11/01.

The conflict with Saddam does go back to 1991, and he WAS parading around with a big “kick me” sign after 9/11, but as far as his “defiance of UN resolutions”, that’s a point in his favor as far as I’m concerned. Anybody who swims across the river of sh*t that comes out of Turtle Bay can’t be all bad.

And yes, you can date the war to 1688, or 1453, or even to the Hegira, but wars have to have an axis of attack and the enemy a center of gravity.

In the war that started in 2001, the axis of attack runs through Riyadh and Islamabad, and the enemy center of gravity is Wahabi Islam and its Deobandi cousin in Pakistan.

If Bush had asked Congress for 90 divisions with appropriate air and sea support on 9/16/01 as he should have done, he would have gotten them.


20 posted on 12/24/2011 11:37:42 AM PST by Jim Noble ("The Germans: At your feet, or at your throat" - Winston Churchill)
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To: Flavius
I have suspected this since the details of Osama’s death were reported.

Helicopters landing, crashing, and hovering over a military town at 2AM - automatic gun fire and several explosions clearly audible hundreds of meters away - but no senior officer makes a phone call, or walks outside to look, or drives over to investigate this, and no civilian calls the local police?

Not only do I think the Pakistani military was deeply involved, I think the USA shoveled big time money to local police and military officials to guarantee that NO ONE interfered with the American strike force.

21 posted on 12/25/2011 3:46:46 AM PST by zeestephen
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To: Jim Noble

I don’t know if we are really weaker in terms of our military. We now have a lot experienced soldiers and they know the enemy.

If a real war broke out - and Obama isn’t CIC - we still know how to break things on a massive scale. Soft war we’ve never been good at...


22 posted on 12/25/2011 4:21:23 AM PST by DB
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To: zeestephen
If you knew Osama lived there and the Americans were making an assault on their #1 enemy would you want to intervene - or even want to be even close by to it?
23 posted on 12/25/2011 4:25:09 AM PST by DB
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To: Jim Noble
Depends on which war you mean. I’m talking about the Wahabi-Deobandi war on America whose first engagement was on 9/11/01.

The umbrella terrorist group that gave us 9/11 carried out the first strike of that year in Iraq against US-supported Kurdish rebels in the north, assassinating top leaders there in a series of bombings intended to leave the Kurds leaderless and useless should the US move into Iraq after Sept 11. It failed, but the al Qaeda subsidiary remained in Iraq constructing a base in the north on the border with Iran and establishing a cell which operated out of Baghdad and which decapitated a Catholic nun there.

An al Qaeda group operating out of western Europe followed that up with an assassination of the leader of the Afghan Northern alliance just days before 9/11, on September 9th, in a move they hoped would prevent the US from working with Massood to gain a foothold in Afghanistan. That subgroup also plotted attacks on US Army HQ in Europe and the NATO hq.

The umbrella terrorist group that gave us 9/11 is the very same terrorist group which gave us the bombing of the USS Cole, a ship which was in the Yemeni port of Aden on a mission to contain Iraq in October 2000.

In early 2000 al Qaeda gathered in Malaysia to review their failed attack on the USS The Sullivans in Aden harbor, an effort which led to them seeking assistance from Iranian-backed Hezbollah in planning a second and successful plot to bomb the USS Cole. The Malaysia meeting involved an Iraqi facilitator employed by the Iraqi embassy who was later caught in Jordan with phone numbers linking him to the perps of the 1993 WTC bombing in NY and other infamous folks on our wanted list. One of the places used by the group in the Malaysia meetings was reported to be the Iranian ambassador's residence in Kuala Lumpour.

It is the very same bunch whose Kenyan cell and Tanzanian cell gave us the 1998 US embassy bombings in Africa.

It was the very same bunch which plotted operation Bojinka and a second plot from the Philippines in the mid nineties whose intended targets were airliners crossing the Pacific and the CIA headquarters in Virginia; the same group which bombed a flight over the Pacific and killed a Japanese engineer.

Another AlQaeda linked group carried out a bombing in the Philppines in 2000, as I recall, which killed a US army Ranger and wounded another, and after which the perps contacted their accomplice, a diplomat in the Iraqi embassy in the Philippines, to report their success.

It was the very same bunch who attempted to strike NY in the early nineties' "Landmark Plot" which targetted tunnels and the UN headquarters in NY. The spiritual leader of the Landmark plotters went on to use his US prison cell and an American leftist lawyer to order terrorist attacks in Egypt such as the Luxor Massacre targetting western tourists.

It was the very same bunbch which carried out attacks in Saudi Arabia in concert with the London based al Mujahiroun, a Saudi opposition group seeking the overthrow of the Saudi government, the group led by "Captain Hook" Omar Bakri the welfare cheat which was also attempting to establish terrorist training camps in the US and Canada.

It was the very same bunch who bombed the World Trade Center in 1993. In that case one of the perps fled to Iraq where he was given a house and a pension.

It was the very same bunch which trained terrorists in Somalia and which ultimately drove the US from Somalia early in Clinton's first term.

The idea that the war started on 9/11/2001 is grossly nearsighted.

24 posted on 12/25/2011 4:48:46 AM PST by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge)
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To: piasa
The idea that the war started on 9/11/2001 is grossly nearsighted.

Oh, I don't know...

I don't think we say the war with Japan started on December 12, 1937, or on April 10, 1941.

Although the attack on the Panay and the formation of Kido Butai were both war acts by Japan, almost everyone (probably even you) counts Pearl Harbor Day as the REAL beginning.

25 posted on 12/25/2011 6:16:51 AM PST by Jim Noble ("The Germans: At your feet, or at your throat" - Winston Churchill)
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To: DB
If you knew Osama lived there and the Americans were making an assault on their #1 enemy would you want to intervene - or even want to be even close by to it?

It takes nothing to shoot down choppers. If they knew about the operation and wanted to protect bin Laden at all costs, there is nothing we could have done to prevent the entire SEAL team from being taken prisoner or killed. Note that the Taliban have taken down 2 SEAL choppers using RPG's. The Pakistanis not only have MANPADS, they have SAM batteries.

26 posted on 12/25/2011 6:45:24 AM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Jim Noble

We need to place the honor of this worldwide terrorist movement where it belongs, to the US President who watched smugly, did nothing, and probably covertly aided in the ouster of the Shaw of Iran.

It should land squarely at the feet of communist Jimmy Carter.


27 posted on 12/25/2011 7:39:47 AM PST by ROCKLOBSTER ( Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: Flavius

It would be amusing if it turns out Musharraf staged 9/11 through Afghan and Arab cut-outs in order to finagle more American aid. Which brought the wrath of Uncle Sam on the Taliban and al Qaeda while leaving Musharraf’s government untouched and flush with tens of billions in American aid, some of which is paying for Musharraf’s comfortable retirement and exile in the UK.


28 posted on 12/25/2011 7:43:20 AM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Flavius

Pakistan is “too nuclear to fail.” — Bachmann


29 posted on 12/25/2011 10:07:12 AM PST by Lady Lucky (Merry Christmas to all!)
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To: Zhang Fei

And then we would have sent in missiles/bombers and Pakistan would have lost its deniability.


30 posted on 12/25/2011 1:15:52 PM PST by DB
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To: DB

“If you knew Osama lived there and the Americans were making an assault on their #1 enemy would you want to intervene - or even want to be even close by to it?”

Depends on what your politics are, correct?

No shortage of America haters or Islamic radicals in Pakistan.

And no shortage of glory or rewards for those who might bring failure, capture, or humiliation to an elite American strike force.

I absolutely support this assassination.

But I have trouble accepting the official time line.

It does not make sense to me that this raid could go on for roughly half an hour, but no Pakistanis showed up to intervene or investigate.

A ten minute raid, with no helicopter crash, with no hovering helicopter, ok, I'll buy that story.

But 30 minutes, multiple explosions, etc., that's very hard to believe.

31 posted on 12/25/2011 3:18:38 PM PST by zeestephen
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To: Don Corleone

Pakistan is not a buffer against China; they are China’s buffer in the region.


32 posted on 12/25/2011 9:29:34 PM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: rbg81

People forget, but Pakistan has always been aligned with the Chinese (and to a limited extent the Americans) as their trump card in opposition to India. During the Soviet days India was a de facto ally (non-aligned in name only) with Russia and that changed only after 1991 when the USA became their sole option. The “Great Game” never ended but the names of the players have changed a few times.


33 posted on 12/26/2011 7:43:39 AM PST by katana (Just my opinions)
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