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Mentally Ill Flood ER as States Cut Services
Yahoo News ^ | 12/24/2011 | Yahoo News

Posted on 12/24/2011 9:37:50 AM PST by Dallas59

CHICAGO/NEW YORK (Reuters) - On a recent shift at a Chicago emergency department, Dr. William Sullivan treated a newly homeless patient who was threatening to kill himself.

"He had been homeless for about two weeks. He hadn't showered or eaten a lot. He asked if we had a meal tray," said Sullivan, a physician at the University of Illinois Medical Center at Chicago and a past president of the Illinois College of Emergency Physicians.

Sullivan said the man kept repeating that he wanted to kill himself. "It seemed almost as if he was interested in being admitted."

Across the country, doctors like Sullivan are facing a spike in psychiatric emergencies - attempted suicide, severe depression, psychosis - as states slash mental health services and the country's worst economic crisis since the Great Depression takes its toll.

This trend is taxing emergency rooms already overburdened by uninsured patients who wait until ailments become acute before seeking treatment.

"These are people without a previous psychiatric history who are coming in and telling us they've lost their jobs, they've lost sometimes their homes, they can't provide for their families, and they are becoming severely depressed," said Dr. Felicia Smith, director of the acute psychiatric service at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: crazypeople; depopulation; economy; hospitals; pensionersnext; starvation; starvethebeast
Could it be the crazy people in Washington???
1 posted on 12/24/2011 9:38:00 AM PST by Dallas59
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To: Dallas59

Goes without saying, this is going to get much worse.

But in the end we’ll all be saved by nobamacare.


2 posted on 12/24/2011 9:49:39 AM PST by upchuck (Let's have the Revolution NOW before we get dumbed down to the point that we can't.)
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To: Dallas59

Your Obama voter... I guess suicide qualifies for an EMTALA payment.


3 posted on 12/24/2011 10:01:31 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Dallas59
Thank Heavens for Kennedy's Community Mental Health Act of 1963 /s

Confidential to Dr. William Sullivan: welcome to The New Frontier.

4 posted on 12/24/2011 10:02:04 AM PST by NonValueAdded ("At a time like this, we can't afford the luxury of thinking!")
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To: Dallas59

A lot if these people have healthcare coverage or currently would qualify for healthcare coverage under Medicaid because they have little or no income. Welcome to obamacare, ‘healthcare’ coverage w/o access to proper healthcare.


5 posted on 12/24/2011 10:07:57 AM PST by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est; zero sera dans l'enfer bientot.)
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To: Dallas59
Sullivan said the man kept repeating that he wanted to kill himself. "It seemed almost as if he was interested in being admitted."

Duh. It must be getting cold in Chi-town.

There was an excellent book written in 1973, "Stations of the Lost" by Jacqueline Wiseman that described how the skid row alcoholic (now called "homeless") used the various social agencies as survival mechanisms. It would apply even more so today. They developed a lifestyle of following "the loop" from Skid row to city jail to county jail to county mental hospital to treatment center to shelter and back to the street. Most of them only spent about a third of their time on the street, usually depending on the seasonal weather.

These various agencies designed as means of social control are used as means of survival. If the person is a vet you can throw various VA bennies into the mix.

6 posted on 12/24/2011 10:11:24 AM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: upchuck
They will be going to a Soylent Green type euthanasia center.


7 posted on 12/24/2011 10:12:51 AM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Dallas59

Want to stay in the most expensive hotel in town? Head to the ER and tell them you’re suicidal. Three squares, clean bed, nurses waiting on you...


8 posted on 12/24/2011 10:21:34 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Dallas59

Want to stay in the most expensive hotel in town? Head to the ER and tell them you’re suicidal. Three squares, clean bed, nurses waiting on you...


9 posted on 12/24/2011 10:21:34 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Dallas59

I thought it said “FR” for a second, well close enough.


10 posted on 12/24/2011 10:25:23 AM PST by Tijeras_Slim
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To: Tijeras_Slim
I thought it said “FR” for a second, well close enough.

Well, we *have* seen a rash of Paulbot postings lately...

11 posted on 12/24/2011 10:28:47 AM PST by COBOL2Java (Obama is the least qualified guy in whatever room he walks into.)
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To: COBOL2Java

Good point.


12 posted on 12/24/2011 10:32:16 AM PST by Tijeras_Slim
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To: Dallas59

Just a bunch of folks preparing to vote for Paul.


13 posted on 12/24/2011 10:32:16 AM PST by Gator113 (~Just livin' life, my way~.. Newt/Palin-West-2012."got a lot swirling around in my head.")
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To: Dallas59

Can’t be. There is a LAW in Mass where EVERYONE has health insurance.


14 posted on 12/24/2011 10:59:05 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.)
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To: Dallas59

I’ve been at the doctor gig since 1973, and I had my psychiatry training at public hospitals in Brooklyn.

All discussions about this subject ignore most of the facts:

1) There are a lot of crazy people, and their numbers are increasing
2) A lot of community organizing-type agitation makes crazy people worse
3) All the state hospitals, which housed millions of crazy people in 1955, are closed
4) There is not enough money on the planet to provide all the crazy people with outpatient treatment.

Start there if you want to discuss solutions.


15 posted on 12/24/2011 11:10:12 AM PST by Jim Noble ("The Germans: At your feet, or at your throat" - Winston Churchill)
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To: upchuck
Goes without saying, this is going to get much worse.

Yeah, lots of funny jokes on this thread. I wonder how many of these homeless, suicidal "bums" were guys who a mere three years ago were holding down full-time jobs, making mortgage payments and supporting their families.

16 posted on 12/24/2011 11:19:05 AM PST by Drew68
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To: Dallas59

Oops, for a moment I thought the title said “Mentally Ill Flood FR...”


17 posted on 12/24/2011 11:21:51 AM PST by Fresh Wind ('People have got to know whether or not their President is a crook.' Richard M. Nixon)
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To: Jim Noble
I may have to report you for calling crazy people crazy.


18 posted on 12/24/2011 11:49:04 AM PST by COUNTrecount (Barry...above his poi grade.)
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To: Dallas59

Illinois is in need of a tax increase!


19 posted on 12/24/2011 11:54:27 AM PST by depressed in 06 ( Where is the 1984 Apple Super Bowl ad when we need it?)
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To: Jim Noble

Ditto, from a fellow shrink - doing my MD gig since 1984 and the shrink sub-gig since 1988, Boarded in ‘93.

Having spent sizable portions of my career working at both state hospitals and at public mental health clinics, I could go on and on confirming and elaborating upon your points, but instead, I’ll just offer up a few skewed insights that have fascinated me over the years:

1. The do-gooder involvement of federal and state governments have done nothing to lessen the suffering for most patients with serious mental illnesses, and have often enabled a worsening. The emptying of the state hospitals, and the stultifying politicization of what remains of them is but one example. Despite what should have been game-changing advances in pharmacological treatments for mental illness, and vast armies of people devoted to helping them live outside an institution, the experiment has failed dramatically. Liberally politicized professional organizations, courts and patient advocate groups, playing out compassionate fantasies based on statist ideologies, have insured the mess we have now.

2. The general erosion and breakdown of the traditional, cohesive family and societal institutions, ushered in by the Marxist changes initiated in the 60s, have been devastating to those with enough remaining ego strengths to prosper in a more orderly society. The bulk of the patients I have seen over the years would probably never have needed my services before those changes.

3. The drug epidemic, facilitated by the failed “War on Drugs” and the failed “War on Poverty,” with all their attendant corrupting influences, has caused unimaginable damage to the most vulnerable.

When I was awarded a Mead Johnson Fellowship in Public Sector Psychiatry towards the end of my residency, they sent me to the APA convention in Chicago to hob nob with others like me and with the movers and shakers in that field. My interest in the field was based on a perceived need to turn back the failed de-instituionalization movement, revamp the old private or state hospital system into a truly therapeutic force that would end the suffering and the maltreatment of the severely mentally ill now living on the streets and in the jails and prisons. How naive.

I was treated there like a leper or a naive little kid for challenging the outpatient system that had provided such lucre, prestige and power to these people. I recall my final moment of involvement in that charade, in the penthouse of some uber-plush hotel along the waterfront, quite dressed up, waiters and waitresses coming around constantly to the little cliques of movers and shakers, and the promising young fellows like me, handing us as much champagne, caviar, goose liver pate and other delicacies as we wanted. I was standing - drink and caviar in hand - with a little group of luminaries, listening to them discuss the latest legislative proposals they were backing, when I raised my glass, made an overly gleeful and loud toast to “all those homeless mentally ill,” downed the entire glass of champagne, and left, never to return. I’ve never regretted closing that door behind me.


20 posted on 12/24/2011 12:34:57 PM PST by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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To: Jim Noble

Ditto, from a fellow shrink - doing my MD gig since 1984 and the shrink sub-gig since 1988, Boarded in ‘93.

Having spent sizable portions of my career working at both state hospitals and at public mental health clinics, I could go on and on confirming and elaborating upon your points, but instead, I’ll just offer up a few skewed insights that have fascinated me over the years:

1. The do-gooder involvement of federal and state governments have done nothing to lessen the suffering for most patients with serious mental illnesses, and have often enabled a worsening. The emptying of the state hospitals, and the stultifying politicization of what remains of them is but one example. Despite what should have been game-changing advances in pharmacological treatments for mental illness, and vast armies of people devoted to helping them live outside an institution, the experiment has failed dramatically. Liberally politicized professional organizations, courts and patient advocate groups, playing out compassionate fantasies based on statist ideologies, have insured the mess we have now.

2. The general erosion and breakdown of the traditional, cohesive family and societal institutions, ushered in by the Marxist changes initiated in the 60s, have been devastating to those with enough remaining ego strengths to prosper in a more orderly society. The bulk of the patients I have seen over the years would probably never have needed my services before those changes.

3. The drug epidemic, facilitated by the failed “War on Drugs” and the failed “War on Poverty,” with all their attendant corrupting influences, has caused unimaginable damage to the most vulnerable.

When I was awarded a Mead Johnson Fellowship in Public Sector Psychiatry towards the end of my residency, they sent me to the APA convention in Chicago to hob nob with others like me and with the movers and shakers in that field. My interest in the field was based on a perceived need to turn back the failed de-instituionalization movement, revamp the old private or state hospital system into a truly therapeutic force that would end the suffering and the maltreatment of the severely mentally ill now living on the streets and in the jails and prisons. How naive.

I was treated there like a leper or a naive little kid for challenging the outpatient system that had provided such lucre, prestige and power to these people. I recall my final moment of involvement in that charade, in the penthouse of some uber-plush hotel along the waterfront, quite dressed up, waiters and waitresses coming around constantly to the little cliques of movers and shakers, and the promising young fellows like me, handing us as much champagne, caviar, goose liver pate and other delicacies as we wanted. I was standing - drink and caviar in hand - with a little group of luminaries, listening to them discuss the latest legislative proposals they were backing, when I raised my glass, made an overly gleeful and loud toast to “all those homeless mentally ill,” downed the entire glass of champagne, and left, never to return. I’ve never regretted closing that door behind me.


21 posted on 12/24/2011 12:34:57 PM PST by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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To: upchuck
Goes without saying, this is going to get much worse.

It's already much worse than most are being told by the government controlled media.

The numbers committing suicides are skyrocketing, others simply looking to brawl with family, strangers, whoever is convenient.

22 posted on 12/24/2011 12:35:40 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dagogo redux

Thanks.

I’m not a shrink - I did good in Therapy 101, so I can make anybody cry - I just can’t make ‘em stop.


23 posted on 12/24/2011 12:43:33 PM PST by Jim Noble ("The Germans: At your feet, or at your throat" - Winston Churchill)
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To: dragnet2

It is a tremendous crisis in our county. Mental health can only deal with the severe and persistently mentally ill. They are preety much able to handle crisis calls and that is about it. We did have a noted community based program that was defunded. It was operated through our 10 family resource centers. There were countless cases of people who were gently assisted from homelessness and drug abuse to independence and functionality by para professionals.

What happens with a 5150 -danger to self or others, is that the cops bring them in to the hospital ER. They have to sit with them as there are no quiet safe rooms anymore. We don’t have a detox facility to place them in either. The crisis mental health workers can’t do an assessment until the “clients” come down from whatever drug they are on. The hospital won’t accept them, so a cop is taken off the street to sit with them until they are sober and can be assessed. Then they are likely sent to an in-patient facility at tax payers’ expense.

The loss of treatment dollars makes money spent on extremely expensive hospitalization even more certain. The state wants to “realign” all responsibility for mental health patients back to the county. Our county wants to give it back to the state. It just is not working.


24 posted on 12/24/2011 12:52:31 PM PST by marsh2
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To: marsh2

You bet...Ya see people standing on the corners arguing with telephone poles, and no one even notices anymore.


25 posted on 12/24/2011 12:57:42 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Dallas59

I think the best all-round solution is for states to build low cost managed care barracks for the non-dangerous mentally ill.

As a good example of such a program whose primary goal is to save the taxpayers money, Seattle set up a hotel for 75 confirmed alcoholics.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002684566_eastlake15m.html

The bottom line is that it saved the taxpayers a huge amount of money, it got the alcoholics out of the gutter and off the street, and drastically reduced police and emergency room costs as well.

The largest group of people who are mentally ill all share the same problem: chronic and incapacitating depression. These are the people who would benefit most from such a barracks.

Oddly enough, the mentally ill who are depressed are rather low maintenance compared to many, and are generally satisfied with minimal needs, such as a bed, shower, food and water, and clean clothing. But it is very hard for them to earn a living or perform extended tasks. Some respond very well to antidepressant treatment, but others do not.

Yet concentrating them would save a lot of money, with a more institutional economy of scale.


26 posted on 12/24/2011 1:06:28 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: grumpygresh

Exactly, unless these states have stopped signing up medicaid
patients. Humm I wonder if the Hospitals are getting worried about whether they will get paid under O-care.

Read an article the other day that Hospitals are now (or soon will be) under some o-care rule about readmissions.

If they care for a Patient and the patient is readmitted for the same problem, there is some sort of penalty.

So if you can’t be cured in one visit does that mean you don’t get cared for in the first place?


27 posted on 12/24/2011 6:06:09 PM PST by marty60
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