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Did Christian parenting book contribute to child deaths?
The Los Angeles Times ^ | December 28, 2011 | Carolyn Kellogg

Posted on 12/30/2011 5:01:11 PM PST by TheDon

A Christian parenting book has come under fire after the deaths of three children from abuse. The families are reported to have been following the guidance of the book "To Train Up a Child" by Michael and Debi Pearl.

The "Today" show reports:

Hana Williams, 13, died of hypothermia after allegedly being starved, abused and locked outside by her parents. Lydia Schatz, age 7, died after being repeatedly beaten by her parents. And 4-year-old Sean Paddock suffocated after his mother wrapped him in a blanket too tightly in an effort to keep him from getting out of bed.

...

(Excerpt) Read more at latimesblogs.latimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: childabuse; christian; parenting
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To: Esther Ruth

Took some things from the Pearl’s book, a few things from Ezzo, but only a few, and a few from the Sear’s also.

None of them, (to me) were completely right.


51 posted on 12/30/2011 6:37:35 PM PST by Bodleian_Girl (Just sayin'.....)
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To: MD Expat in PA
"I tend to think that parents who read a book that espouses beating children into submission..."

You won't find that in the Pearl's book. They have never advocated beatings.

52 posted on 12/30/2011 6:39:18 PM PST by Bodleian_Girl (Just sayin'.....)
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To: TheDon

This isn’t actually a smear job. Browse the Pearls’ website, read where they advocate whipping three month olds, staying with a husband who is molesting your children and tempting children and then punishing them. (Contrary to the Lord’s Prayer) They also found the deaths of these children funny, see his facebook page.

But they aren’t truly Christians. They are paleagians with strong gnostic tendencies. Reading their work indicates a flawedn if not heretical, understanding of Jesus Christ as both God and man.


53 posted on 12/30/2011 6:43:41 PM PST by mockingbyrd
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To: ChocChipCookie

Oh don’t even get me started on Created to be his Helpmeet. The Pearls are sick, messed up people. But I think she’s the more messed up one.


54 posted on 12/30/2011 6:47:39 PM PST by mockingbyrd
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To: mockingbyrd
staying with a husband who is molesting your children

They actually advocate first calling the popo.....

55 posted on 12/30/2011 6:47:39 PM PST by Bodleian_Girl (Just sayin'.....)
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To: Bodleian_Girl

Depends on what you read. He answers one emailer by saying that you simply stay with the molester if he promises never to do it again. And you don’t report him. Only if he does continue then you call the police but don’t allow the children to testify against him and make them visit him in prison. And welcome him back into your home when he’s released.


56 posted on 12/30/2011 6:52:45 PM PST by mockingbyrd
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To: TheDon

I’ve read the book and nothing in it would lead to this kind of thing unless the parents already had serious problems.


57 posted on 12/30/2011 6:53:22 PM PST by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: mockingbyrd

In the book, Created to be a Help Meet, they say always call the police.

I don’t agree with them on lots of things, but I do think it’s important that I speak to the thinks I do know.


58 posted on 12/30/2011 6:57:53 PM PST by Bodleian_Girl (Just sayin'.....)
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To: ChocChipCookie

The bottom line with Debi Pearl’s book is that all problems are the wife’s fault.

It only comes acrossed that way because it’s written to women. The Pearls definately put the bulk of responsibility on the husband. They just don’t let the women completely off the hook like some others do.


59 posted on 12/30/2011 7:00:22 PM PST by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: Morgana

Having never read the book... how can you state it’s a catalyst?

There is more actual evidence that the pillows and blankets were to blame. If only we had laws to control the damn pillows and blankets./s


60 posted on 12/30/2011 7:00:25 PM PST by rwilson99 (Please tell me how the words "shall not perish and have everlasting life" would NOT apply to Mary.)
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To: Bodleian_Girl

Like I said, this was Michael Pearl NOT Debi Pearl and it’s on their website, or was, under reader emails.


61 posted on 12/30/2011 7:04:44 PM PST by mockingbyrd
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To: Bodleian_Girl

Good point!
Those without the book have far worse records than those that do.
We could apply the same to those that have, and do not have the Bible.
Even our creator, God, whom is our Heavenly Father chastens those He loves.

“For whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth, and scourageth every son whom He receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth you as sons; for what son is he whom the Father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then ye are bastards, and not sons.”(Hebrews 12:6-8)

“Futhermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverance: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure: but He for our profit. that we might be partakers of His holiness.” (Hebrews 12:9-10)

No way does this excuse those that abuse and offend and hurt children. The Lord made it clear that even to offend those little ones that believe in Him. “It would be better that they put a millstone about their neck and jump into the sea.” (Matthew 18:6)

Another is: “By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.” (Proverbs 16:6)


62 posted on 12/30/2011 7:05:18 PM PST by LetMarch (If a man knows the right way to live, and does not live it, there is no greater coward. (Anonymous)
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To: cripplecreek

But I bet you learned a lot of cool Gregorian chants. :p


63 posted on 12/30/2011 7:07:47 PM PST by Politicalmom (Lazamataz for president!! NO MORE RINOS!!)
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To: freedomfiter2

There’s a notation in the book that Michael did a lot of heavy editing, and, if the Pearls practice what they preach, then Debi is more or less a puppet of her husband and the book is primarily his POV.


64 posted on 12/30/2011 7:09:37 PM PST by ChocChipCookie
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To: Esther Ruth

I completely agree! The Ezzo books were very popular when my daughter was born 12 years ago, but when I read this line in Dr. Sears’ book, I knew his was the method I wanted to adopt.

“It’s easy for other people to tell you to let your child ‘cry it out’.”


65 posted on 12/30/2011 7:14:14 PM PST by ChocChipCookie
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To: ChocChipCookie

Debi doesn’t look or sound like a down trodden woman. I believe any writers work should be judged by scripture rather than whatever viewpoint is drifting through popular culture. I don’t endorse the Pearls but I think that anyone with a little intelligence and common sense could find something useful from them. People lacking in those areas should stay away from that stuff. Concerning Debi’s book in particular, each woman’s life experiences will affect the way the book comes acrossed. Some women love the book and others hate it.


66 posted on 12/30/2011 7:27:02 PM PST by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: TheDon

I have not read this book, but as a school nurse, I have sat in with parents, especially parents advised by clergy to follow the advice of Christian books. However, when the parents are not true believers, or dingy to begin with, these attempts usually do not bring favorable results. They cling to certain things in these books religiously and rigidly. It’s too bad, too, because for the average Christian parent, there is probably some very good advice to be gotten, but not for those who mistreat their kids to begin with, or are not attempting to follow after Christ. I’ve had to report abuse.


67 posted on 12/30/2011 7:40:25 PM PST by Shery (in APO Land)
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To: TheDon

I have read this book. I don’t agree with some of its attitude.

It does NOT, however, recommend you do ANY of the abuse listed in the article. It is unfair to say that it does.


68 posted on 12/30/2011 7:41:59 PM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: ChocChipCookie

“She advises that a man who molests his children be turned in but that the kids come to prison to visit him, the wife remain faithful to him throughout the prison sentence, and then when he’s released, it will be a time of joy and reconciliation. “

This is where they lost me, too.

However the charges about the child abuse are unfair.


69 posted on 12/30/2011 7:44:28 PM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: ChocChipCookie

“The bottom line with Debi Pearl’s book is that all problems are the wife’s fault. That message is loud and clear throughout the book.”

To be fair there is a new book out, “Created to Need a Help Meet,” and the excerpts I have read are tough on the men, too.

I may be sounding like a Pearl apologist, I am not, although I have sympathy with some of their conclusions. I do believe they are vilified way beyond reason.


70 posted on 12/30/2011 7:47:21 PM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: TheDon

Heard about this on the radio recently. Talk about a smear job! The attack on christianity continues....


If it is true, it don,t have nothing to do with any book, it just has to do with stupid.


71 posted on 12/30/2011 8:01:09 PM PST by ravenwolf (reIf you believe that Nero was the anti-Christ, and among othJust a bit of the long list of proofsre)
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To: yldstrk

This is NOT an assault on Christianity, this is something a “Christian” author did.


You really believe that about the author, or were you just using humor?


72 posted on 12/30/2011 8:11:40 PM PST by ravenwolf (reIf you believe that Nero was the anti-Christ, and among othJust a bit of the long list of proofsre)
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To: Bodleian_Girl

I didn’t agree with everything the book said, but I can’t find fault with it where it agreed with the Bible.


Right, but there are so many people who will only recognize the scriptures that agree with their own self righteous ideas.

Or some how they can twist the scripture around and keep saying this is what it means, and keep saying it until they kind of believe it.


73 posted on 12/30/2011 8:26:04 PM PST by ravenwolf (reIf you believe that Nero was the anti-Christ, and among othJust a bit of the long list of proofsre)
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To: ravenwolf

ravenwolf

do a little internet research on this and the quiverfull movement. You will see these “authors” have made a real mess of things. No, it was NOT humor, genius, these devils have caused people to kill their own children


74 posted on 12/30/2011 9:06:55 PM PST by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Bodleian_Girl

Unfortunately the logic of your analysis is lost on most folks. They prefer the illogic of the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.


75 posted on 12/30/2011 9:17:07 PM PST by Skepolitic
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To: Gene Eric

Do you know what a catalyst is?


76 posted on 12/30/2011 10:32:41 PM PST by Morgana (I only come here to see what happens next. It normally does.)
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To: rwilson99

Do you know what a catalyst is?

The parents are the ones who are wacko here. I don’t care what some book says to do, like someone else here they should have “had better sense” or was it “common sense”? Or have about the brains God gave a monkey? Honestly I can’t believe after reading this article that anyone was this stupid.


77 posted on 12/30/2011 10:36:38 PM PST by Morgana (I only come here to see what happens next. It normally does.)
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To: TheDon

So...if you consider yourself a christian - this is the book you were supposed to read first?

I never got the memo!

Anyone here know anyone with this book on their shelf?


78 posted on 12/30/2011 10:37:20 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: Persevero

I guessed as much.


79 posted on 12/30/2011 10:56:41 PM PST by TheDon (The Democrat Party, the party of the KKK (tm))
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To: Morgana

“Having never read the book”, your assertion seems a bit... tenuous.


80 posted on 12/31/2011 1:00:25 AM PST by Gene Eric (C'mon, Virginia -- are you with us or against us?!)
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To: yldstrk

ravenwolf

do a little internet research on this and the quiverfull movement. You will see these “authors” have made a real mess of things. No, it was NOT humor, genius, these devils have caused people to kill their own children


I read about the quiverfull movement and did not see any thing to get excited about, not that i could go for that kind of life, as far as i am concerned the less children the better. but if people are going to raise a big family they do need discipline.

I think there are nuts on both sides of the aisle here but we are individuals, we are not robots at some one elses command, or at least i am not, so i blame it entirely on the ones responsible, not the author of any book even if the author is a nut.

If we are looking for the cause of the woes of this world, the first place we should look is in the mirror.


81 posted on 12/31/2011 1:53:46 AM PST by ravenwolf (reIf you believe that Nero was the anti-Christ, and among othJust a bit of the long list of proofsre)
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To: ravenwolf

you obviously didn’t find the websites about escaping from quiverfull

http://nolongerquivering.com/


82 posted on 12/31/2011 5:20:15 AM PST by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Morgana; cripplecreek

Nothing is as bad as represented by the Democrat Propaganda Ministry. I’m sure many readers of the Pearls’ advice are perfectly fine parents, because when they see reality, they go with reality instead of imagination.

As “cripplecreek” points out, the newspapers would believe my kids’ stories of the terrible suffering they experience because they’re expected to put their clean clothes in their drawers and other slave-labor.


83 posted on 12/31/2011 5:52:52 AM PST by Tax-chick (I'm not being paid enough for this.)
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To: Gene Eric

Having read articles about people who did read the book and acted like fools when it comes to dealing with their children I can make a logical conclusion. The parents are plumb dumb.

You don’t starve your kid.

You don’t beat your kid with a cat o’ nine tales

you don’t wrap your kid with a blanket so hard that he/she can’t breathe.

I don’t care what some book says to do that is not normal. A cat o’ nine tales? Honestly sounds like something from a porno movie.


84 posted on 12/31/2011 7:17:38 AM PST by Morgana (I only come here to see what happens next. It normally does.)
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To: Tax-chick

TC what did these parents read in this book that ever gave them the idea to pick up a cat o nine tales and beat their kid with it? That is a fine line between reality and imagination. I would have never dreamed of such a thing. In fact I search under “shopping” on Bing and the only place to really buy one is Amazon.com and there it is listed as a
sex fetish for halloween costumes and well you get the point. That just makes this story all the more creepy.


85 posted on 12/31/2011 7:33:48 AM PST by Morgana (I only come here to see what happens next. It normally does.)
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To: Morgana

The premise is that it is both possible and morally necessary for parents to “train” their children into absolute, instant, and unquestioning obedience, using operant-conditioning methods based on physical pain. I suppose it works fairly well with some children who have compliant natures.

However, it seems, from the reports that come out when the MSM finds it useful, that some parents, faced with a child who is determined not to surrender, will escalate the physical force until they kill the child. People who aren’t insane don’t even think of a cat ‘o nine tails!


86 posted on 12/31/2011 7:46:34 AM PST by Tax-chick (I'm not being paid enough for this.)
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To: Tax-chick

“The premise is that it is both possible and morally necessary for parents to “train” their children into absolute, instant, and unquestioning obedience, using operant-conditioning methods based on physical pain. I suppose it works fairly well with some children who have compliant natures.”

You have no argument with me there it is just the cat o’ nine tail really threw me. Yea no sane parent would think of using it. Which makes me wonder what did they read that it got distorted? “Spare the rod” can mean swat them with your hand, not go to your local S & M supply shop and get the goods.


87 posted on 12/31/2011 8:44:29 AM PST by Morgana (I only come here to see what happens next. It normally does.)
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To: Morgana

I think we can agree the parents were sorely ignorant in the treatment of their children. And I wouldn’t rule out the influential potential of the book. It’s a different matter, however, to state the book was definitively the catalyst for the unfortunate, tragic outcomes that befell the families.


88 posted on 12/31/2011 10:12:39 AM PST by Gene Eric (C'mon, Virginia -- are you with us or against us?!)
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To: Morgana

As I said, some people are just crazy.


89 posted on 12/31/2011 10:47:11 AM PST by Tax-chick (I'm not being paid enough for this.)
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To: Gene Eric; Tax-chick

As a child I saw a cartoon that was made during WWII. Today this cartoon would not be PC.

In the cartoon a “Rosie the Riveter” type woman goes off to work and leaves JR with a sitter. Before she goes she leaves a book Called “Child Psychology” with the sitter saying “Use this it helps me”. Well you can guess JR is a brat! The sitter reads the book and does every thing it says and nothing. Finally when “Rosie” comes home the sitter tell her “we used the book but it did not help” to which “Rosie” says “Strange it always works well for me!” as she is putting JR across her knee and beating his a$$ with the book.


90 posted on 12/31/2011 1:06:31 PM PST by Morgana (I only come here to see what happens next. It normally does.)
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To: Morgana

Very good, LOL


91 posted on 12/31/2011 2:05:57 PM PST by Gene Eric (C'mon, Virginia -- are you with us or against us?!)
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