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The Haditha Marines-The Squad Leader-A Final Chapter (SSgt Wuterich-Master Thread)
1-2-2012

Posted on 01/02/2012 10:28:48 AM PST by smoothsailing

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DEFEND OUR MARINES has been and remains the premier source for information concerning the Haditha Marines. Excerpts and links are posted below to the two most recent articles:

HADITHA: SINS OF THE GENERALS

Strategic Legalism

Bob Weimann | December 31, 2011

…”Strategic legalism”…the use of laws or legal arguments to further larger policy objectives, irrespective of the facts or laws… Law and War: An American Story by Peter Maguire

Peter Maguire defines “strategic legalism” in his book Law and War: An American Story. His book focuses primarily on the Nuremberg Trials immediately after the Second World War. Mr. Maguire discusses the extraordinary effort the US made to ensure the German war criminal trials are just and legal. In addition, he exposes an implied mission “that the trials would do more than render justice; they would also serve to "reeducate" the German people.” The strategic legalism occurs when the German war criminals sentences are systematically commuted and the convicted are quietly freed from prison. The United States releases these war criminals because as a nation, we are well into the Cold War and the US needs to curry favor and the loyalty of West Germany people.

I appreciate Mr. Maguire’s work, especially the crystal clear definition of strategic legalism. For me, it was a bit of an epiphany as I researched the reasons for the unfair political prosecutions of SSgt Wuterich and the Haditha Marines. Bam! There is was in black and white on page nine...it has a name. The definition pulled all the loose ends and rabbit trails together, including the Breaker Morant story which is the British version of strategic legalism....

Continued here...

...............................................................

THE NEVER ENDING BATTLE

by Nathaniel R. Helms | Thursday, December 29, 2011

"The 400 pages of interrogations [regarding the incident in Haditha], once closely guarded as secrets of war, were supposed to have been destroyed as the last American troops prepare to leave Iraq. Instead, they were discovered along with reams of other classified documents...by a reporter for The New York Times at a junkyard outside Baghdad. An attendant was burning them as fuel to cook a dinner of smoked carp."--Michael S. Schmidt, "Junkyard Gives Up Secret Accounts of Massacre in Iraq", The New York Times, December 14, 2011

Three weeks after The New York Times carped about the fellow in Iraq cooking fish with scraps of “classified” U.S. documents, “once closely guarded as secret of war” the long declassified observations of the witnesses detailed in the 400 pages of purloined interrogations are finally going to come out – maybe. That is if the scuttlebutt is dead wrong and no miraculous last minute intervention by someone on high puts a merciful end to arguably the most divisive event to ever test the honor of the United States Marine Corps.

Whether anyone cares enough to notice either way is a much bigger question than why a New York Times reporter wouldn’t bother to actually check the classification status of the documents he was peddling before selling it as fresh fish. He could have found out everything he needed to know just by clicking on Defend Our Marines...

Continued here...

1 posted on 01/02/2012 10:28:52 AM PST by smoothsailing
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To: jazusamo; RedRover

Haditha Marine ping!


2 posted on 01/02/2012 10:36:01 AM PST by smoothsailing
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To: All

3 posted on 01/02/2012 10:40:04 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: smoothsailing; RedRover; 4woodenboats; American Cabalist; AmericanYankee; AndrewWalden; ...
The 2 articles linked in comment #1, Strategic Legalism by Bob Weimann and The Never Ending Battle by Nathaniel R. Helms are excellent articles, they're must reads!

.

HADITHA MARINE PING!

4 posted on 01/02/2012 10:43:50 AM PST by jazusamo (If you don't like growing older, don't worry. You may not be growing older much longer: T. Sowell)
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To: smoothsailing

One would think that now that we are out of Iraq there would be no need for this politicized redux of Breaker Morant but I guess once the machinery gets going there’s no stopping it. Prayers for the Marine, he’ll need it.


5 posted on 01/02/2012 10:47:05 AM PST by trapped_in_LA
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To: jazusamo

Bump.


6 posted on 01/02/2012 10:52:34 AM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: Lancey Howard
Thank you Lancey. You always have been diligent in posting that picture on these Haditha threads. It is much appreciated!

NEVER FORGET!!!


7 posted on 01/02/2012 11:41:38 AM PST by smoothsailing
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To: Lancey Howard; RedRover
Memory may have failed me, but I believe the fellow kneeling by the grave marker is Miguel's brother. Red should be able to verify.


8 posted on 01/02/2012 12:03:58 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: RobinOfKingston

Auto-ping


9 posted on 01/02/2012 12:06:02 PM PST by RobinOfKingston (The instinct toward liberalism is located in the part of the brain called the rectal lobe.)
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TWITTER FEED
10 posted on 01/02/2012 1:22:45 PM PST by smoothsailing
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Facebook Public Updates
11 posted on 01/02/2012 1:27:00 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing

I hope this Marine is cleared of the charges.This has gone on for way too long.


12 posted on 01/02/2012 3:52:00 PM PST by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life is tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: smoothsailing; jazusamo

Smooth. Didn’t you post an article on the potential dropping of this case a few weeks back? I am certain, it appeared all charges would be dropped and the case closed. Please do not go to any length in verifying the article you posted. So much gets read, dropped, it is hard to keep track of such things.


13 posted on 01/02/2012 4:09:31 PM PST by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned.)
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To: Marine_Uncle; jazusamo
Didn’t you post an article on the potential dropping of this case a few weeks back?

Uncle, I think this is the thread...

DEFEND OUR MARINES-LATEST NEWS (Haditha Marines)

And this is the article you're referring to...

Lawsuit filed in case involving Marines charged with Iraqi deaths

14 posted on 01/02/2012 5:48:25 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing; Lancey Howard

Yes, that’s Martin Terrazas Jr.—Miguel’s brother. His grave is in his hometown in El Paso.


15 posted on 01/02/2012 6:23:38 PM PST by RedRover
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To: smoothsailing

Thanks smoothsailing. Yes that was the article I was referring to. And obviously I wrote something into it that does not now apply to Sargent Wutrich’s upcoming case, necessarily. May you and yours have a content and healthy new year.


16 posted on 01/02/2012 6:38:06 PM PST by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned.)
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To: Marine_Uncle
Thanks Uncle, and

A VERY HAPPY AND PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR TO YOU!


17 posted on 01/02/2012 6:51:40 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: RedRover

Thanks Red!


18 posted on 01/02/2012 6:52:44 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing; jazusamo; RedRover; All

THANK YOU, EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU, FOR YOUR CONTINUED SUPPORT OF OUR SON FRANK!! Don’t think we would have made it this far without all of you. You are an inspiration to our family. God Bless All of You.


19 posted on 01/02/2012 9:55:44 PM PST by Semper Fi Mom (Mother of a Marine and proud of it! (www.WeSupport Frank.com))
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To: smoothsailing

Father God, be with SSgt Wuterich, his lawyers and the judge.

Have this end quickly and have this man be set free.


20 posted on 01/03/2012 9:42:29 AM PST by ConfidentConservative (If my people shall humble themselves and pray,I will hear from Heaven and heal their land.)
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To: Semper Fi Mom
Hi Mom! Here's wishing you, Frank, and all the family the

HAPPIEST NEW YEAR OF ALL!!!

:o)

21 posted on 01/03/2012 10:04:11 AM PST by smoothsailing
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To: Semper Fi Mom

May God Bless You, Frank and the Family, Mom!


22 posted on 01/03/2012 10:45:14 AM PST by jazusamo (If you don't like growing older, don't worry. You may not be growing older much longer: T. Sowell)
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Give Back a Little and Donate


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23 posted on 01/03/2012 11:56:07 AM PST by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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To: smoothsailing

WOW...tweets..FB...DOM...FR...so nice to see all the supporters!


24 posted on 01/03/2012 1:35:06 PM PST by lilycicero
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To: lilycicero
Hi Lily! Great to "see" you here!

WOW...tweets..FB...DOM...FR...so nice to see all the supporters!

It's wonderful, alot of good folks are pulling for Frank! :)

25 posted on 01/03/2012 1:59:38 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing

Good to see you Smmooooth!!!!


26 posted on 01/03/2012 7:48:46 PM PST by lilycicero
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To: All

UPDATE Via DEFEND OUR MARINES - The court martial of SSgt Wuterich will commence at Camp Pendleton with jury selection at 8:00 AM PST Thursday, January 5, 2012.


27 posted on 01/04/2012 12:05:55 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing; jazusamo; lilycicero; Girlene; Semper Fi Mom
NEWS ALERT: SOME CHARGES DISMISSED!

In motion hearings today, Judge David Jones ruled for the defense by dismissing some of the charges SSgt Frank Wuterich faces in his general court-martial.

Three counts of reckless endangerment by firing a weapon where civilian deaths occurred have been dropped.

The judge also dismissed a charge of obstruction of justice alleging that SSgt Wuterich encouraged one of his Marines to lie to investigators, according to SSgt Wuterich's defense team's website.

Since the case began in 2006, the law has changed regarding how certain charges must be alleged on a charge sheet and the government failed to properly plead those charges.

More news as we have it at Defend Our Marines. Jury selection begins tomorrow.

28 posted on 01/04/2012 8:10:36 PM PST by RedRover
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To: RedRover; jazusamo

Thanks Red!

Additional Info:

Jury selection is expected to take most of Thursday. In the pool for the combat-experienced panel are seven enlisted Marines and five officers. The final size of the panel, which must be composed of members of the Marine Corps or Navy, hasn’t been determined and can vary under military law.

The judge said he expects the jury will be selected by the end of the day and opening statements will be heard early Friday, if not late Thursday.

The prosecution’s case will last about 10 days and include nearly two dozen witnesses. Many of the troops who were under Wuterich’s command that day are expected to testify.

Read more: http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/military/military-final-haditha-trial-to-get-under-way-at-camp/article_688f1c17-6472-5e4f-bb1f-eb95948e9113.html#ixzz1iYQNYdXW


29 posted on 01/04/2012 8:35:14 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: RedRover

I would press the ‘like’ button if we had one!


30 posted on 01/04/2012 9:05:50 PM PST by lilycicero (Imagine..deadly weapons carried and used at war!)
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To: lilycicero

ME TOO!


31 posted on 01/05/2012 12:16:08 AM PST by Semper Fi Mom (Mother of a Marine and proud of it! (www.WeSupport Frank.com))
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To: lilycicero; smoothsailing; jazusamo
According to the North County Times article linked above...

Before jury selection begins, [Judge LtCol David] Jones is set to rule on whether prosecutors can omit the names of the victims and just use numbers that were painted on their bodies by Marines who reviewed the death scenes shortly after the shooting stopped.

Gannon made that request on Wednesday, saying depositions from victims' family members, which he had planned to introduce to establish the identity of all the dead, will not be used.

Defense attorney Faraj objected, saying it is crucial that prosecutors identify the people who died if they are going to prosecute Wuterich for homicide.

32 posted on 01/05/2012 4:45:02 AM PST by RedRover
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To: RedRover; jazusamo; 4woodenboats; American Cabalist; AmericanYankee; AndrewWalden; Antoninus; ...

UPDATE:

Wuterich Trial Begins in Ernest

Today the Defense and Government will question prospective jurors to seat a members panel in the general court-martial of SSgt Frank Wuterich. Court is scheduled to begin at 8:30 PST.

For latest updates during the trial follow Puckett & Faraj on Twitter: www.twitter.com/puckettfaraj

33 posted on 01/05/2012 8:16:26 AM PST by smoothsailing
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To: RedRover; P-Marlowe; smoothsailing; jazusamo; lilycicero; Girlene; Semper Fi Mom; Ironmajor

To young Marine:

“Marine what were the ROEs in effect at that time?”

“Were you ever ordered NEVER to paraphrase the ROEs?”

“Were you ever ordered that ROEs could be communicated only verbatim without any error whatsoever?”

“Were you ever ordered to memorize the ROEs word for word without mistake or ordered only to refer to them by reading from a card EVEN when under attack or in a continuing combat situation?”


34 posted on 01/05/2012 8:27:08 AM PST by xzins (Pray for Our Troops Remaining in Afghanistan, now that Iran Can Focus on Injuring Only Them)
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To: xzins
Added to new ROE:

Every combat Marine must have a JAG officer, a NCIS agent, and a TIME magazine reporter present with him when engaging the enemy.

35 posted on 01/05/2012 8:37:49 AM PST by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing

protect yourself when you feel threatened = shoot first, ask questions later

At least to any thinking person and certainly to anyone who has ever been within striking distance of a battlefield.


36 posted on 01/05/2012 8:42:49 AM PST by xzins (Pray for Our Troops Remaining in Afghanistan, now that Iran Can Focus on Injuring Only Them)
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To: xzins

My Rifle

The Creed of a United States Marine

by MajorGeneral William H. Rupertus, USMC Retired

This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will...
My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit...
My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard my legs, my arms, my eyes and my heart against damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will...
Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life.
So be it, until there is no enemy, but peace!

37 posted on 01/05/2012 9:26:56 AM PST by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing; RedRover; jazusamo

Prayers for Wuterich.

Thanks for the ongoing pings, links, and updates, gentlemen.


38 posted on 01/05/2012 9:38:02 AM PST by Gene Eric (C'mon, Virginia -- are you with us or against us?!)
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To: smoothsailing

Great post! I loved my M16. (It was an M16A1, actually, with the “forward assist”.) I always said that someday I want to own one exactly like it. Back then they were full auto, not “burst”.


39 posted on 01/05/2012 9:45:02 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: xzins
protect yourself when you feel threatened = shoot first, ask questions later

AMEN...No realistic person can argue against that but there are many unrealistic people.

40 posted on 01/05/2012 10:47:56 AM PST by jazusamo (If you don't like growing older, don't worry. You may not be growing older much longer: T. Sowell)
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To: smoothsailing

Bump.


41 posted on 01/05/2012 10:50:46 AM PST by jazusamo (If you don't like growing older, don't worry. You may not be growing older much longer: T. Sowell)
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To: Lancey Howard; smoothsailing

Is the “My Rifle” creed required reading for Marines?


42 posted on 01/05/2012 12:01:07 PM PST by xzins (Pray for Our Troops Remaining in Afghanistan, now that Iran Can Focus on Injuring Only Them)
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To: jazusamo; smoothsailing; RedRover; Lancey Howard; Girlene
@puckettfaraj puckettfaraj Ladies and Gentlemen, Jan 4, 2012 at the last general court-martial, the truth about Haditha will be revealed. http://fb.me/1imTEcKfG 15 Dec via Facebook

The above from 15 Dec and from the twitter acct of the Faraj Puckett (counsel?) is intriguing.

I'm betting one prong of his attack will be to go after the "Status of Forces" angle made evident by Murtha's old aide, John Hugya. Hugya's words can easily demonstrate that a much higher level was messing in Wuterich's case.

Wuterich needs to be exhonerated, promoted, and given a medal and back pay.

43 posted on 01/05/2012 12:14:52 PM PST by xzins (Pray for Our Troops Remaining in Afghanistan, now that Iran Can Focus on Injuring Only Them)
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To: xzins
Is the “My Rifle” creed required reading for Marines?

I don't recall having to memorize it (like "General Orders", for example) but we were definitely made very familiar with it in boot camp.

44 posted on 01/05/2012 12:19:25 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard; jazusamo; P-Marlowe; Girlene; smoothsailing; RedRover
I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will...

As I understand the real charge against Staff Sergeant Wuterich, he, in the mind of liberals, sent his troops on a killing spree by giving the "shoot first, ask questions later" instructions.

If every Marine is indoctrinated with the above creed "I must shoot him before he shoots me.", and since the ROEs at the time did NOT require positive ID but only a feeling of endangerment, then I see no way he can be convicted on any of the true charges.

There's always the possibility they're trying to salvage face by secretly targeting the "did not clean under his fingernails prior to dress mess" law. Just so they can say, "convicted on one charge....in the killing of 24 innocent civilians".

And you know they'll do it. It's not what's true in their mind; it's what they can spin that matters.

45 posted on 01/05/2012 12:30:18 PM PST by xzins (Pray for Our Troops Remaining in Afghanistan, now that Iran Can Focus on Injuring Only Them)
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To: Lancey Howard

” (It was an M16A1, actually, with the “forward assist”.)”

I remember it well!

http://www.armyproperty.com/Equipment-Info/M16A1.htm


46 posted on 01/05/2012 12:55:32 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: xzins; jazusamo; lilycicero; smoothsailing; RedRover; bigheadfred; 4woodenboats; Lancey Howard
Looks like I picked a good time to get back online......just in time for the last Haditha Marine trial (and eventual exhoneration).

A good piece from Michelle Malkin: Remember SSgt Frank D. Wuterich: The last Haditha Marine goes on trial
47 posted on 01/05/2012 1:01:30 PM PST by Girlene
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To: Girlene

Hey Girlene! Long Time No Lookie!!! :)


48 posted on 01/05/2012 1:10:25 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: Girlene

Hiya, Girl.

Happy you’ll be here for the final round and Frank’s exoneration, that was a good piece by Malkin.


49 posted on 01/05/2012 1:16:35 PM PST by jazusamo (If you don't like growing older, don't worry. You may not be growing older much longer: T. Sowell)
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To: jazusamo; smoothsailing
Hiya, back, guys. Since I've been out of the loop for awhile, didn't know if you'd seen this snarky piece from the NY Times, Junkyard Gives Up Secret Accounts of Massacre in Iraq
50 posted on 01/05/2012 1:33:58 PM PST by Girlene
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