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What A Big Government Conservative Looks Like
Red State ^ | 010612 | Erick Erickson

Posted on 01/06/2012 10:00:48 AM PST by Fred

I’m rather tired of all the people who don’t like Romney trying to claim Rick Santorum is not a big government conservative, or not a pro-life statist. I would support him before I would support Romney too, but I have no intention of giving up ideological and intellectual consistency in the name of beating Mitt Romney.

Rick Santorum is a pro-life statist. He is. You will have to deal with it. He is a big government conservative. Santorum is right on social issues, but has never let his love of social issues stand in the way of the creeping expansion of the welfare state. In fact, he has been complicit in the expansion of the welfare state.

I and some friends, none of us Romney fans, have set about exploring Santorum’s record since Wednesday morning. Here now is a non-exhaustive list of what we have found. It does not even include his support for No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, etc.

(Excerpt) Read more at redstate.com ...


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bigego; biggovt; gingrich; perry; romney; santorum; stalkinghorse
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I will support Santorum if he wins the nomination, however, he has to stop doubling down on 'big govt is good' and he is proud of his earmarks.
1 posted on 01/06/2012 10:00:52 AM PST by Fred
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To: Fred

The list at the link is informative.


2 posted on 01/06/2012 10:03:24 AM PST by sickoflibs (You MUST support the lesser of two RINOs or we all die!)
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To: Fred

Santorum will be a total train wreck if he becomes the nominee. He will be slaughtered by the left on social issues (say goodbye to any of the youth vote), and he will turn off the limited gov’t tea party types like myself.


3 posted on 01/06/2012 10:03:51 AM PST by milwguy
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To: Fred

Erickson lost all credibility when he started attacking Sarah Palin and pimping Mitch Daniels. He can take his RINO red website and go away.


4 posted on 01/06/2012 10:03:59 AM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: Fred

I’m okay with Santorum as VP, but I want to make sure he’s matured and grown out of his love affair with big government-ordained social collectivism before he becomes president.


5 posted on 01/06/2012 10:04:10 AM PST by Utmost Certainty (Our Enemy, the State | Gingrich 2012)
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To: sickoflibs

Voted to allow illegal immigrants to receive the earned income credit before becoming citizens
Voted to give SSI benefits to legal aliens.

Quite the ‘conservative’ voting record imho.


6 posted on 01/06/2012 10:05:50 AM PST by milwguy
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To: Fred

Immigration:

Voted against increasing the number of immigration investigators

Voted to allow illegal immigrants to receive the earned income credit before becoming citizens

Voted to give SSI benefits to legal aliens.

Voted to give welfare benefits to naturalized citizens without regard to to the earnings of their sponsors.

Voted against hiring an additional 1,000 border partrol agents, paid for by reductions in state grants.

___________________________

I can imagine what would be said against any of the other candidates if they had this voting record.


7 posted on 01/06/2012 10:07:04 AM PST by LimberJim
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To: Timber Rattler

But facts are facts. If this is an accurate report of Santorum’s voting record, it’s not good.


8 posted on 01/06/2012 10:07:21 AM PST by freespirited
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To: Fred

Wow, Erickson put my list on Santorum to shame. Good job.


9 posted on 01/06/2012 10:11:11 AM PST by Utmost Certainty (Our Enemy, the State | Gingrich 2012)
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To: milwguy
RE "Quite the ‘conservative’ voting record imho."

Ironically PA voters booted him in 2006 for taking positions that they thought were too conservative, although I think it was mainly the problems in Iraq at the time that did it and not that he ever really opposed spending.

10 posted on 01/06/2012 10:12:27 AM PST by sickoflibs (You MUST support the lesser of two RINOs or we all die!)
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To: freespirited

Nope. It’s only part of it.


11 posted on 01/06/2012 10:15:25 AM PST by writer33 (Mark Levin Is The Constitutional Engine Of Conservatism)
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To: Fred
What a load of crap. Everyday on CNN Erickson trashes Republicans with whatever lands in his "in box" from Media Matters.

Santorum wants the government to do what the Constitution and Declaration of Independence dictates it do, defending "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".

12 posted on 01/06/2012 10:17:14 AM PST by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: Fred

Whatever. I take no political input from a Paul-tard.


13 posted on 01/06/2012 10:17:18 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS! This means liberals AND libertarians (same thing) NO LIBS!)
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To: Fred

Seems like Erick Erickson wants Romney to win, because other than Perry all he does is tear down the other conservatives- sure they aren’t perfect, but they’re darned better than Romney. Maybe he should spend more time attacking Romney’s record (truthfull) than being a pessimistic party pooper! I am really disliking this strategy of tear the current non-Romney down untill they sink to the point that Romney SUCCEEDS (all the while ingnoring Romney’s glaring RECORD)!?

Can we all AGREE to just attack Romney (on his truthful liberal record, and not or “not-perfect” conservative)?? We are running out of time-unless YOU LIKE Obama Presidentcy, or a Romney (George W. McCain/Kerry) administration??

In fact I think that IS Romney’s strategy- send out bloggers into the conservative blogosphere to tear down the current “surging” conservative; so that he can slide by clean as glass?..


14 posted on 01/06/2012 10:20:37 AM PST by JSDude1 (https://transaxt.com/Donate/PTWALC/RickSantorumforPresident)
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To: Fred; Jim Robinson

Seems like Erick Erickson wants Romney to win, because other than Perry all he does is tear down the other conservatives- sure they aren’t perfect, but they’re darned better than Romney. Maybe he should spend more time attacking Romney’s record (truthfull) than being a pessimistic party pooper! I am really disliking this strategy of tear the current non-Romney down untill they sink to the point that Romney SUCCEEDS (all the while ingnoring Romney’s glaring RECORD)!?

Can we all AGREE to just attack Romney (on his truthful liberal record, and not or “not-perfect” conservative)?? We are running out of time-unless YOU LIKE Obama Presidentcy, or a Romney (George W. McCain/Kerry) administration??

In fact I think that IS Romney’s strategy- send out bloggers into the conservative blogosphere to tear down the current “surging” conservative; so that he can slide by clean as glass?..


15 posted on 01/06/2012 10:21:51 AM PST by JSDude1 (https://transaxt.com/Donate/PTWALC/RickSantorumforPresident)
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To: JSDude1

I thought Erickson was a Perry supporter?


16 posted on 01/06/2012 10:23:08 AM PST by Utmost Certainty (Our Enemy, the State | Gingrich 2012)
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To: milwguy

And what will MITT ROMNEY do if he is the nominee (to the Republican elctorate)???


17 posted on 01/06/2012 10:23:34 AM PST by JSDude1 (https://transaxt.com/Donate/PTWALC/RickSantorumforPresident)
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To: Fred
LOL, do you have a list of the shrimp kings ear marks, and the king of ear markers noot.
18 posted on 01/06/2012 10:24:04 AM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Newt, Willard, Perry and nervous supporters.)
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To: Fred

Actually this is more monkey poo from the red state jokers.


19 posted on 01/06/2012 10:25:36 AM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Newt, Willard, Perry and nervous supporters.)
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To: Deb

On social issues all the candidates are good except Romney.


20 posted on 01/06/2012 10:26:17 AM PST by Fred (No Job No Home No Food No Problem - Obama 2012)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Are you saying that Erickson is a paul-tard???? Can the desperation please cease.

Make your case for these votes, Santorum is going to have to make his case, help your candidate.


21 posted on 01/06/2012 10:28:30 AM PST by Fred (No Job No Home No Food No Problem - Obama 2012)
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To: LimberJim
When you have democraps and rinos writing bills, adults know that there is always crap in them that some politicians do not support, that is why the a- holes have 9000 page bills that must pass. You can bet money that the only people who have not voted this way are the willards and he proposed them on the state level. Monkey poo from red state is kinder-garden thinking.
22 posted on 01/06/2012 10:32:24 AM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Newt, Willard, Perry and nervous supporters.)
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To: Fred

You mean “except Romney and Huntsman”.


23 posted on 01/06/2012 10:32:41 AM PST by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: Fred

Which candidate two days ago said that he was the man with BIG IDEAS and BIG SOLUTIONS? Sounds like BIG GUBMINT to me.

LLS


24 posted on 01/06/2012 10:33:36 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS!)
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To: milwguy

If America does not embrace GOD and those “social issues”... then we are not only doomed as a Republic but we will be damned to hell too. The time has come to embrace GOD and not turn from HIM for political gain.

LLS


25 posted on 01/06/2012 10:37:09 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS!)
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To: Fred

OK, I went looking for evidence that Erickson was a libertarian. I didn’t find what I was looking for, but this....

“Rick Santorum is a pro-life statist. He is. You will have to deal with it. He is a big government conservative...”

This is evidence enough that Erickson is a libetarian based on this snarky attack of a pro-life candidate.

ANYBODY that attacks a candidate based on their strong pro-life viewpoints is a moron.


26 posted on 01/06/2012 10:38:27 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS! This means liberals AND libertarians (same thing) NO LIBS!)
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To: Fred

Seems to me Jim has spoken about attacking conservative Republican candidates, and made it clear that WE SHOULD NOT BE DOING THIS, especially at this point in the primaries.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2829090/posts


27 posted on 01/06/2012 10:39:51 AM PST by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: milwguy

Every single candidate sucks... they all do... none of them have solid Conservative credentials... that is a fact... so which turd do YOU want to let swim in our punch bowl?

LLS


28 posted on 01/06/2012 10:40:15 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS!)
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To: LibLieSlayer

There’s more to a leader than the devoutness of his/her religious faith. It’s not a sufficient condition by itself.


29 posted on 01/06/2012 10:40:39 AM PST by Utmost Certainty (Our Enemy, the State | Gingrich 2012)
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To: milwguy

Let’s face it, on this board, name a GOP candidate, and someone will find something about him/her that makes him/her unacceptible.


30 posted on 01/06/2012 10:43:40 AM PST by Daveinyork
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To: JSDude1
Erickson is letting himself get used...

If the Rick Perry campaign thinks that delivering its opposition research files (on Rick Santorum) to Erick Erickson is an effective messaging technique — well, good luck with that.

31 posted on 01/06/2012 10:43:58 AM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: Deb

Not sure about Eric. But one thing for sure: Rick S. is not the answer for the not-Romney wing of the party. I hope we wake up in time: it is Newt all the way.


32 posted on 01/06/2012 10:43:58 AM PST by david1313 (Newt all the way)
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To: Responsibility2nd

I’ve read about Erickson’s coined term ‘pro-life statist’, and it’s not in any way meant as an indictment of pro-lifers.

The point of it, is that those who use pro-life positions as an excuse to institute big government, are a liability to the conservative movement.

He’s right.


33 posted on 01/06/2012 10:45:46 AM PST by Utmost Certainty (Our Enemy, the State | Gingrich 2012)
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To: Fred

LOL. There are some people on this board whose vocabulary does not extend beyond Paul-tard, Paulbot, and RuPaul.


34 posted on 01/06/2012 10:46:26 AM PST by Daveinyork
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To: Fred

I thought that question was settled. We WILL be getting a big state big spender for a candidate because that is what the “adults” are prepared to present us with.


35 posted on 01/06/2012 10:47:53 AM PST by DManA
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To: Utmost Certainty

Those who use ANY excuse to institute big government are a danger to us all.


36 posted on 01/06/2012 10:48:24 AM PST by Daveinyork
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To: milwguy

Ditto.....


37 posted on 01/06/2012 10:51:00 AM PST by Gator113 (~Just livin' life, my way~..... GO NEWT GO.....!)
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To: Daveinyork

Indeed.


38 posted on 01/06/2012 10:51:22 AM PST by Utmost Certainty (Our Enemy, the State | Gingrich 2012)
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To: Utmost Certainty

The point of it, is that those who use pro-life positions as an excuse to institute big government, are a liability to the conservative movement.

 

 

 

Give me just one example of how a pro-life position can possibly lead to bigger government.

 

Just one.

 

Here; I'll help you out. If we overtun Roe and outlaw abortions, we will have millions of new welfare babies to max out our welfare roles.

 

Now. Is that what your're saying?



39 posted on 01/06/2012 10:52:06 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS! This means liberals AND libertarians (same thing) NO LIBS!)
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To: Utmost Certainty

I didn’t say that it was... so please do not try to put words into my mouth... but a lack of GOD in a person’s life disqualifies that person from consideration IMHO.

LLS


40 posted on 01/06/2012 10:56:06 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS!)
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To: david1313
Newt's "Special Orders" on the House floor are what made me a committed conservative. Newt and Bob Dornan were two of the greatest gifts America had gotten for decades. When the Democrats filed 400 bogus "ethics violations" against Newt, I made my first ever political contribution of $1000.

Newt is our Churchill. I just detest the constant trashing of our own team (except for Huntsman) by people who call themselves "conservatives".

41 posted on 01/06/2012 11:00:54 AM PST by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: Deb

Who is Huntsman? candidate for???


42 posted on 01/06/2012 11:03:28 AM PST by Fred (No Job No Home No Food No Problem - Obama 2012)
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To: Responsibility2nd

It’s more about politicians who, on the one hand please conservatives with social positions they like—pro-life, anti-gay marriage, etc. And then on the other hand screw them with big government proposals—out of control spending, ‘compassionate’ social programs, etc.

Santorum has shown himself to be that kind of a politician, over and over again.

And it’s NOT just about his voting record. You can make all the excuses in the world about Santorum’s voting record that you want to—argue that it’s irrelevant because the votes were part of omnibus spending packages, or that these were pragmatically ‘necessary’ votes to please vital constituencies, etc.

But the fact still remains that statements which Santorum has made, articulating his philosophy of governance, indicate that he is no friend of limited government.

Now, I’m willing to give a man benefit of the doubt that he can change. I don’t hold quite the same views I did 5-10 years ago, and I’ll bet in 5-10 years my views will be slightly different yet. But until I see demonstrable proof that Santorum’s convictions have changed when it comes to essential fundaments of limited government, I will remain decidedly leery of a Santorum presidency.


43 posted on 01/06/2012 11:04:25 AM PST by Utmost Certainty (Our Enemy, the State | Gingrich 2012)
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To: Daveinyork
1) ALL of these candidates are less than Conservative

2) We have to choose one candidate from this hugely flawed slate of candidates

3)To choose one of these candidates... we must all admit that they are all flawed in some way... none of them are without their violations of our Ideology... and we must decide who amongst this group will be our candidate to challenge obama

What makes some of us mad is that far too many here on FR try to paint their choice as Reagan... first we need to be honest with ourselves if we expect Americans to embrace and vote for our choice. If you go into this election thinking that any of these people will govern like Reagan... you are setting yourselves up for disappointment. We must make this hard choice and contrasting and debating these candidates is the only way to do that.

LLS

44 posted on 01/06/2012 11:07:46 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS!)
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To: LibLieSlayer

My apologies, did not mean to put words in your mouth.


45 posted on 01/06/2012 11:08:15 AM PST by Utmost Certainty (Our Enemy, the State | Gingrich 2012)
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To: Utmost Certainty

I understand your arguments. I do. I have heard the same arguments for years about Mike Huckabee.

No one (but an idiot) discounts his SoCon values. But plenty of right wingers take issue with his being a Nanny Stater.

OK, I can see that. But I would ENTHUSIASTICALLY support a “pro life statist” like Santorum or Huck over an abortion flip-flopper like Romney.

Wouldn’t you?


46 posted on 01/06/2012 11:11:05 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS! This means liberals AND libertarians (same thing) NO LIBS!)
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To: Utmost Certainty

No problem my friend... regardless... we are all conservatives and we have to get through this together.

LLS


47 posted on 01/06/2012 11:15:30 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS!)
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To: JSDude1
In fact I think that IS Romney’s strategy- send out bloggers into the conservative blogosphere to tear down the current “surging” conservative; so that he can slide by clean as glass?..

Of course, it is. And, members attacking the alternatives to Romney like Fred get away with claiming to principled conservatives with no candidate of their own. But, all Freddie and other "principled" whiners are doing is assuring Romney splits the conservative vote and wins the nomination.

48 posted on 01/06/2012 11:19:12 AM PST by Kazan
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To: Daveinyork
LOL. There are some people on this board whose vocabulary does not extend beyond Paul-tard, Paulbot, and RuPaul.

I think that's exactly the reaction the GOP establishment has worked to cultivate in reponse to anyone who'd argue for limiting the federal government to only what's within the original intent of it's enumerated powers.

They'll talk about eliminating agencies or regulations because they're unpopular, not because they're unconstitutional. They don't promise to give the power back to the States, they want to keep it and just promise to abuse it a little less.

49 posted on 01/06/2012 11:20:39 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: LibLieSlayer
If America does not embrace GOD and those “social issues”... then we are not only doomed as a Republic but we will be damned to hell too.

Then, get behind Santorum or Newt, nit wit, rather than whining, pissing and moaning about how lousy they are. All you're doing is helping Romney. It's sickening.

The perfect candidate doesn't exist. Obama and Romney will set back the nation and the conservative movement decades. Given that, anyone with a brain realizes conservatives have rally around the best alternative, perfect or not.

50 posted on 01/06/2012 11:21:54 AM PST by Kazan
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