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Documents Suggest Bush Administration Used 'Fast And Furious' Tactics
NPR ^ | January 5, 2012 | Carrie Johnson

Posted on 01/06/2012 11:01:26 AM PST by neverdem

The Justice Department sent nearly 500 pages of documents to Republican lawmakers Thursday that suggest the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives may have used questionable tactics and lost track of American-made weapons in a gun trafficking investigation on the Mexican border as early as 2006.

The documents sent to House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) could add a new dimension to a political controversy that's raged on Capitol Hill for a year. Issa and other Republican lawmakers have accused the Obama administration of acting recklessly by losing track of almost 2,000 guns on the Southwest border in a botched ATF operation called Fast and Furious. Two of those weapons were recovered near the body of slain U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry in December 2010.

The newly released email messages and briefing papers suggest there may be similarities between the Obama operation "Fast and Furious" and an earlier effort during the Bush administration to target the flow of guns into Mexico. The papers include several communications between ATF supervisors and Justice Department prosecutors in Arizona who were trying to build a case against "a very powerful, aggressive and violent" Mexican drug cartel in an earlier operation dubbed "Wide Receiver."

A senior Obama administration Justice Department official who briefed reporters on the documents said the papers show law enforcement officers in the Bush years could have filed criminal conspiracy and false statements charges against lower level figures in the gun trafficking operation, but they decided to watch and wait until they could move higher up the chain of command.

"We want the... manufacturing and distribution pieces also – we want it all," an ATF official wrote in March 2006.

The case ultimately languished in the U.S. Attorney's office in Arizona until the Obama administration sent help from Washington D.C. and indictments were handed down in May and October 2010. Six people have been convicted in connection with Wide Receiver, the senior Justice Department official said.

The new disclosures could be featured in a Feb. 2 hearing where Attorney General Eric Holder will square off against Issa over the ATF failures. The last time the two men met on Capitol Hill, fireworks erupted, when Issa likened Holder to the Nixon era Attorney General John Mitchell and Holder reached back to the era of Joseph McCarthy and asked Issa whether he "had any shame."


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Mexico; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: atf; banglist; batfe; dea; dhs; doj; fastandfurious; fbi; gunrunner; gunwalker; holder; issa; obama; propaganda; widereceiver
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Holder testified that he knows the differences between F&F and Wide Receiver. Sen. Cornyn pushed him to admit that in Wide Receiver the guns had tracking devices and the GOM was involved. Maybe we'll find out how Bill Newell, Dennis Burke, and the DOJ came up with F&F strategy and why they would lie to Grassley. The only thing that makes any sense is that F&F was a "false flag" operation with political motives. Isn't it odd that the DOJ has not thanked the whistle blowers for their service and courage to come forward and save lives? Thursday, January 05, 2012 11:17:46 PM

NPR got nailed for its spin of Wide Receiver in the comment section.

1 posted on 01/06/2012 11:01:30 AM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

Right....of course it was Bush that started it.

Hmmmm....didn’t the Democrats take control in 2006? Funny how this stuff always spins back to Bush’s fault...especially during the time the Dems controlled things.


2 posted on 01/06/2012 11:04:15 AM PST by Lucky9teen (Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading.~Thomas Jeffer)
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To: neverdem

This is half a click away from using the excuse that it was all Bush’s fault.


3 posted on 01/06/2012 11:04:19 AM PST by SERKIT ("Blazing Saddles" explains it all......)
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To: neverdem

I don’t see how this has any resemblance to what Obama was doing. I see the word “could” used in the article. Looks like NPR is putting up a smoke screen to try and cover for Obama.


4 posted on 01/06/2012 11:05:06 AM PST by Parley Baer
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To: neverdem

Even if this is true, “they did it too” is NOT a valid defense for the actions of this administration.


5 posted on 01/06/2012 11:05:25 AM PST by WayneS (Comments now include 25% MORE sarcasm for no additional charge...)
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To: neverdem
SUGGEST the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives MAY have used QUESTIONABLE tactics

Weasel words. Good grief!

6 posted on 01/06/2012 11:05:52 AM PST by 1raider1
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To: neverdem

this is not acceptable no matter who started it, opr who could have and should have terminated it. people are being killed, and this is wrong whether it is a dem or a rep.


7 posted on 01/06/2012 11:06:44 AM PST by camle (keep an open mind and someone will fill it full of something for you)
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To: Lucky9teen

Oliver type writer.


8 posted on 01/06/2012 11:09:09 AM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Newt, Willard, Perry and nervous supporters.)
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To: Parley Baer

HERESY! Nationalized People’s Radio would never do that for Dear Leader.


9 posted on 01/06/2012 11:09:27 AM PST by WOBBLY BOB (Congress: Looting the future to bribe the present.)
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To: neverdem
The papers include several communications between ATF supervisors and Justice Department prosecutors in Arizona who were trying to build a case against "a very powerful, aggressive and violent" Mexican drug cartel in an earlier operation dubbed "Wide Receiver."

The Obama administration was trying to build a case against American gun merchants. Difference #1.

the papers show law enforcement officers in the Bush years could have filed criminal conspiracy and false statements charges against lower level figures in the gun trafficking operation, but they decided to watch and wait until they could move higher up the chain of command.

The Obama administration didn't watch at all. They didn't care where the guns ended up, apparently. Difference #2.

This writer may have some profession or other, but she sure ain't a journalist.

10 posted on 01/06/2012 11:09:37 AM PST by skeeter
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To: neverdem
Obama Administration Rule Number 1:

1. When all else fails. Blame Bush.

11 posted on 01/06/2012 11:11:05 AM PST by apillar
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To: neverdem

Every BAD thing Bush II did, Obama repeated IN SPADES.

BOTH are wrong and one of the reasons this doofus is sitting in the Oval is his predecessor. The other reason just endorsed Romney (John McPain).


12 posted on 01/06/2012 11:11:05 AM PST by ZULU (LIBERATE HAGIA SOPHIA!!!!!)
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To: neverdem

Well then, that mikes it all OK, huh?


13 posted on 01/06/2012 11:12:01 AM PST by Slump Tester (What if I'm pregnant Teddy? Errr-ahh -Calm down Mary Jo, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it)
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To: WayneS
Even if this is true, “they did it too” is NOT a valid defense for the actions of this administration.

No kidding...I guess this makes it okay not to pay my taxes because Obama's cabinet didn't pay their's.

14 posted on 01/06/2012 11:12:40 AM PST by BookmanTheJanitor
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To: WayneS
“they did it too” is NOT a valid defense

WRONG! For a liberal this is the most valid defense in existence.

15 posted on 01/06/2012 11:12:54 AM PST by Drill Thrawl (The patient is too far gone to save.)
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To: Lucky9teen

I have noticed an absolutely frantic and widespread ‘Bush did it’ effort on the part of the lefty media and their unthinking, unblinking minions since the New Year arrived.

They must realize that selling Obama is a fool’s errand so they’re going back to 2007 and beyond.


16 posted on 01/06/2012 11:13:56 AM PST by relictele (Green energy is neither)
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To: neverdem

1. “Bush did it too” is not an excuse in any court.

2. Thanks Dubya!


17 posted on 01/06/2012 11:14:41 AM PST by MetaThought
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To: BookmanTheJanitor

Heyyyyyyy.

You might be on to something, there...


18 posted on 01/06/2012 11:16:24 AM PST by WayneS (Comments now include 25% MORE sarcasm for no additional charge...)
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To: WayneS

“Even if this is true, “they did it too” is NOT a valid defense for the actions of this administration.”

Right, but it is the only defense they have - valid or not. Of course when we try to apply their standards to our actions in the future (vis-a-vis recess appointments or anything for that matter), the gnashing of teeth will be able to be heard from outer space. I think Glen Beck played the sound of it on his show about a year or so ago.

Let’s face it... if we are unwilling to play by their rules we will always get beat by them (moral equivalence being ingrained in the public mindset and all).


19 posted on 01/06/2012 11:16:46 AM PST by jurroppi1
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To: neverdem
Mom: "Johnny, get your hand out of that cookie jar!"

Johnny: "But Susie stole cookies."

20 posted on 01/06/2012 11:17:12 AM PST by matt1234 (Bring back the HUAC.)
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To: neverdem

Without tracking devices in the guns, how can Holder even claim that this was a TRACKING program?

And without informing Mexico of the project, how can Holder deny that this is an act of war? Obama just signed authorization for him to use war powers on anybody who materially supports our terrorist enemies - and yet Holder and his cronies are arming the drug cartels waging war against the Mexican government.


21 posted on 01/06/2012 11:17:30 AM PST by butterdezillion
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To: neverdem

But officer, I think the guy in front of me was speeding too.


22 posted on 01/06/2012 11:18:01 AM PST by Proud2BeRight
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To: Lucky9teen

LOL. This scandal is about to blow up and destroy Holder so the Libs and NPR are in a panic to give him any cover they can. Fast and Furious “Tactics”. What the Hell does that mean? That could be anything.


23 posted on 01/06/2012 11:19:42 AM PST by Opinionated Blowhard ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
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To: neverdem

National
Politburo
Radio


24 posted on 01/06/2012 11:22:02 AM PST by wac3rd (Somewhere in Hell, Ted Kennedy snickers....)
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To: neverdem; 444Flyer; MestaMachine; Nachum

NPR LIES!!!

THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN WIDE RECEIVER AND FAST AND FURIOUS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bESZcRMCBKk&feature=player_embedded#!


25 posted on 01/06/2012 11:24:27 AM PST by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!
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To: neverdem
I knew this was coming. These pathetic losers are without shame.

Project Gunrunner started in 2005 under Dubya and was with the full knowledge and cooperation of the Mexican government. It resulted in 1,400 arrests and no deaths.

Fast and Furious started in October 2009, eight months into the Obama Administration -- without the knowledge of the Mexican government and over the objections to LEOs on the ground -- and this resulted in 1,800 weapons, most of which were semi-auto rifles, safely in the hands of Mexican drug dealers, and who knows how many dead.

There is a difference.

26 posted on 01/06/2012 11:25:24 AM PST by Tribune7 (Vote Perry)
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To: neverdem
NPR is just trying to cushion the blow as F&F becomes a big story.

They can't sit on it any longer...they're trying to spray a lot of air-freshener in the room before the public smells the fart.

27 posted on 01/06/2012 11:25:39 AM PST by capt. norm (Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves for they shall never run out of material. c)
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To: neverdem

Nothing but bullsh!t.

LLS


28 posted on 01/06/2012 11:27:53 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS!)
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To: Joe Brower; Travis McGee; LucyT; vette6387; MetaThought; 60Gunner; XHogPilot; FreedomPoster; ...

npr doing what npr does best...ping.


29 posted on 01/06/2012 11:28:35 AM PST by MestaMachine (obama kills)
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To: neverdem

Apples and oranges. One was a law enforcement effort to catch criminals. One was a huge scam to attack the 2nd Amendment, and it has caused the deaths of many innocent people.


30 posted on 01/06/2012 11:31:01 AM PST by pallis
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To: neverdem

“suggest…
may have…
could…
suggest…
may be…
could be…”


31 posted on 01/06/2012 11:31:26 AM PST by WayneS (Comments now include 25% MORE sarcasm for no additional charge...)
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To: Lucky9teen

The exact point I came here to make...Congress became democratic in 2006...


32 posted on 01/06/2012 11:32:17 AM PST by Boonie
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To: matt1234

Except Susie didn’t steal anything.


33 posted on 01/06/2012 11:37:09 AM PST by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: neverdem

The only logical conclusion after reading this is that NPR is functioning as a pro-Obama election website, printing propaganda for their master.

No rational person could make the confusion that is in this report.

Intentional or not - their bias is now past reality phase and into treason/sedition phase.


34 posted on 01/06/2012 11:37:24 AM PST by Eldon Tyrell (question,.)
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To: neverdem

The only time the MSM reports on FnF is when there is some imagined link to W’s administration. Otherwise, the rule is hear no evil, see no evil, do no evil. I hate these wicked people and their agenda with a passion.


35 posted on 01/06/2012 11:37:34 AM PST by bkopto (Obama is merely a symptom of a more profound, systemic disease in American body politic.)
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To: matt1234

Oh, and Johnny is a liar.


36 posted on 01/06/2012 11:38:00 AM PST by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: neverdem
Just for quick reference for those pining for the Walkergate scandal to be The reason Obama is frog-marched out of the White House:
_____________________________________
October 6, 2011
Gunwalker: Gunning Down the ‘Bush Did It, Too’ Lie
http://pjmedia.com/blog/gunwalker-gunning-down-the-bush-did-it-too-lie/?singlepage=true
Bob Owens
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
October 7, 2011
‘Wide Receiver’ CI: ‘It had nothing to do with Bush or even DOJ’
David Codrea, Gun Rights Examiner
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/wide-receiver-ci-it-had-nothing-to-do-with-bush-or-even-doj
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
October 15, 2011
New Documents Highlight Differences in Bush-Era, Obama-Era Gunrunner Investigations
One was a failed law enforcement operation. The other was a possible criminal conspiracy. Bob Owens
http://pjmedia.com/blog/new-documents-highlight-differences-in-bush-era-obama-era-gunrunner-investigations/?singlepage=true
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
November 9, 2011
Under oath, Holder discredits ‘Bush did it too’ excuse for ‘Gunwalker’
Kurt Hofmann, St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-st-louis/under-oath-holder-discredits-bush-did-it-too-excuse-for-gunwalker

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
11/09/2011
Fast and Furious Is Not a “Failed” Operation
Not if Democrats get their gun control laws after all.
by John Hayward
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=47437
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
November 28, 2011
Rep. Maloney Lies about Fast and Furious
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/11/rep_maloney_lies_about_fast_and_furious.html

37 posted on 01/06/2012 11:38:20 AM PST by Voice of Reason1 ("Absolute power corrupts absolutely” Lord Acton 1887)
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To: neverdem

“that suggest the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives may have used questionable tactics “

“suggest there may be similarities between the Obama operation “Fast and Furious” and an earlier effort during the Bush administration to target the flow of guns into Mexico. “

“show law enforcement officers in the Bush years could have filed criminal conspiracy and false statements charges “


and if my uncle had tits he’d be my aunt....

here’s hoping Issa takes this speculative BS and tells Holder and the criminal liberal media to shove it...


38 posted on 01/06/2012 11:38:38 AM PST by God luvs America (63.5million pay no federal income tax then vote demoKrat)
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To: neverdem

Neosocialist Propaganda Radio defending the Obyssmal administration again? House members: Defund NPR now.


39 posted on 01/06/2012 11:38:43 AM PST by Trod Upon (Obama: Making the Carter malaise look good. Misery Index in 3...2...1)
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To: neverdem

There’s one basic difference: Bush was building a legitimate case against violent drug smugglers. Obama was building a case against gun dealers and the Second Amendment.

It’s not nice appointing a gangster to head the Department of Justice. Yes, there are precedents: Bobby Kennedy and Janet Reno. But none of them is in a class with Holder’s blatant thuggery.

And let’s never forget that Hillary was neck deep in this plot, too.


40 posted on 01/06/2012 11:38:48 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: neverdem

In Wide Receiver, the ATF FOLLOWED the guns to the border, NOTIFIED the Mexican gov’t the bad guys were crossing, and DISCONTINUED the operation when they figured out that the bad guys were disabling the RFID tracking devices the agents planted on the guns.

In F&F, the ATF field agents were ordered NOT to follow the straw buyers, NO tracking devices were planted on the guns, the Mexican gov’t was NOT notified that the program even EXISTED, and the whole thing was only stopped when Agent Terry was murdered.


41 posted on 01/06/2012 11:42:19 AM PST by milwguy
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To: Drill Thrawl

Not quite. This “proves” (in liberal land)that Bush is guilty and Obama is innocent. Furthermore any accusations of wrongdoing by Obama and Holder are “racist”.


42 posted on 01/06/2012 11:43:08 AM PST by ozzymandus
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To: MestaMachine

Shep what’s-his-name did a short piece on this on Fox Report last night. I missed the beginning & looked for a repeat of his show (it doesn’t repeat)-— and no video that I can find.

At the time, I thought WTH??? It was short and insinuating. BUSH DID IT TOO, and DOJ concerned We are going to see this kind of PR for an entire month leading up to the hearing.


43 posted on 01/06/2012 11:44:02 AM PST by thouworm (.)
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To: LibLieSlayer
Watch the stuttering

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bESZcRMCBKk&feature=player_embedded

44 posted on 01/06/2012 11:44:40 AM PST by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!
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To: God luvs America

LOL! It might possibly suggest that there could be a perceived similarity!


45 posted on 01/06/2012 11:45:07 AM PST by VA40
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To: milwguy

A huge difference.


46 posted on 01/06/2012 11:46:29 AM PST by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: Tribune7
Good points.

The administration must have been talking to their buddies at NPR.

47 posted on 01/06/2012 11:51:26 AM PST by Cyropaedia ("Virtue cannot separate itself from reality without becoming a principal of evil...".)
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To: Lucky9teen

things were a little different for bushies little exersise:

1) the mexican government was fully informed and was an active participant in bushies thingie.

2) all weapons allowed across the border had trackers installed in them, and they were actively tracked.

3) when 1 weapon was lost, the whole program was immediately shut down.

Now, lets compare to fubo’s little operation;

1) mexico did not know we were allowing weapons across the border ( violation of treaties, and since these weapons were going to cartels that used them against the mexican government, it is a bona fide act of war )

2) NONE of the weapons had trackers on them, and no effort was made to track them, or to arrest perps.

3)This program was shut down only after 200 dead mexican civilians and 2 federal agents could be directly linked to the weapons.

yeah, I guess they were exactly the same (sarcam on)


48 posted on 01/06/2012 11:52:58 AM PST by joe fonebone (Project Gunwalker, this will make watergate look like the warm up band......)
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To: neverdem

Say that NPR is right... which I know they aren’t, it makes matters worse for the current Administration. It also bolsters the need to remove Government control of firearms as a punitive measure. Our Government has shown beyond any doubt that they cannot be trusted in regards to gun control and that they MUST relinquish such control.

If both sides of the isle are dipping into this illegal activity, then we need to demand that the Government no longer have anything to do in any way shape or form with private sales and ownership of firearms. END OF STORY.


49 posted on 01/06/2012 11:54:20 AM PST by BCR #226 (02/07 SOT www.extremefirepower.com...The BS stops when the hammer drops.)
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To: BCR #226

The NPR is not right

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bESZcRMCBKk&feature=player_embedded

All government is corrupt and out of control.(THIS IS WHY I back Perry as he is the only one saying part time senate and would truly shake things up)But in the meantime Obama and Holder are not getting away with murder,corruption,obstruction.


50 posted on 01/06/2012 11:59:29 AM PST by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!
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