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Who should build our next light attack aircraft? (Brazil?)
Hot Air ^ | January 7, 2012 | Jazz Shaw

Posted on 01/07/2012 6:32:53 AM PST by bobsunshine

The United States Air Force is facing questions from Hawker Beechcraft Corp. after a recent GAO decision effectively removed them from the running in a bid to build our next generation of light attack aircraft....

Hawker Beechcraft, which has been excluded by the U.S. Air Force from competing for a contract to supply a new light attack aircraft, is fighting mad and fighting back. The Wichita-based manufacturer of business jets and turboprops filed suit yesterday with the Court of Federal Claims following notification that the Government Accountability Office (GAO) declined to review its protest of the Air Force decision, which was made public in November. The company’s AT-6 light attack variant of the T-6 turboprop trainer was previously considered a front-runner in the competition for a contract valued at nearly $1 billion, and Hawker Beechcraft and its partners in the AT-6 say they have invested more than $100 million preparing for the competition. .....

If the company is out of the race, the only remaining competitor is listed as being Sierra Nevada Corp.based in Nevada. The problem with that, however, is that critics have noted that Sierra Nevada is more of a front company and the actual manufacturer would be Brazilian-based Embraer, manufacturer of the Super Tucano, which would take the place of the AT-6.

(Excerpt) Read more at hotair.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aerospace; aircraft; at6; obama; supertucano
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The "King" has decided that Brazil is best suited for building our planes and delivering our oil. In his words "we will be your best customer"
1 posted on 01/07/2012 6:32:57 AM PST by bobsunshine
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To: bobsunshine

The Unions get screwed again by their leader.


2 posted on 01/07/2012 6:35:18 AM PST by bmwcyle (I am ready to serve Jesus on Earth because the GOP failed again)
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To: bobsunshine

Any country that either outsources or “mercenizes” its military and effectiveness is headed in the same direction as the Roman Empire.


3 posted on 01/07/2012 6:42:26 AM PST by apoliticalone (Honest govt. that operates in the interest of US sovereignty and the people, not global $$$)
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To: bobsunshine

A SOROS company!


4 posted on 01/07/2012 6:56:46 AM PST by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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Did You Know?

The Current FReepathon Pays For The Current Quarters Expenses?

Now That You Do, Donate And Keep FR Running


5 posted on 01/07/2012 6:59:12 AM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: bobsunshine

We have to get this bunch out of our Government or we won’t have a country.


6 posted on 01/07/2012 7:02:33 AM PST by Venturer
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To: bobsunshine
The Super Tucano is a proven design, while the AT-6 Texan II has yet to actually drop any ordnance.
7 posted on 01/07/2012 7:06:25 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: Yo-Yo

“the AT-6 Texan II has yet to actually drop any ordnance.”

Yeah those prop airplanes are a new fangled contraption, we’d be far better off trusting our military development with a country that has open anti-american tendencies.


8 posted on 01/07/2012 7:10:22 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: bobsunshine

Answers are in order. Just why is Hawker Beechcraft out and Embraer in? inquiring minds want to know. The American people ought to know. Taxpayers should know. In the end, we better know, because there can be no good reason. NONE!


9 posted on 01/07/2012 7:10:50 AM PST by wita
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To: Yo-Yo

All designs are new at some time. If we only accepted proven designs we would not have the best equipment in inventory. I don’t want our troops fighting with last years out dated equipment.


10 posted on 01/07/2012 7:11:59 AM PST by jimpick
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To: wita

———Just why is Hawker Beechcraft out and Embraer in?-——

Perhaps Embraer builds a better product.

Consider Hawker, not just Beechcraft. Perhaps Hawker diluted the product Beech quality beyond the point of military acceptability.


11 posted on 01/07/2012 7:13:34 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ..... Crucifixion is coming)
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To: Yo-Yo
Should they have said that about the P-51?
12 posted on 01/07/2012 7:14:45 AM PST by Carry_Okie (The RNC would prefer Obama to a conservative nominee.)
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To: bobsunshine

Here ya go Bob! Soros is connected to the deal!

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2012/01/odd-coincidence-soros-affiliated.html


13 posted on 01/07/2012 7:14:54 AM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: bobsunshine

You can bet many parts will be supplied by the Chinese.


14 posted on 01/07/2012 7:15:18 AM PST by kenmcg (How)
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To: bobsunshine
Ideally the plane would be built in the US. I'm no aviation expert, but the design and capabilities of the Super Tucano certainly do seem better suited to the Light Air Support mission:


15 posted on 01/07/2012 7:15:31 AM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
And the A-29 / Super Tucano would be built in the US in Jacksonville, FL using parts from 70 US suppliers in 21 states:


16 posted on 01/07/2012 7:23:03 AM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: wita
Answers are in order. Just why is Hawker Beechcraft out and Embraer in? inquiring minds want to know.

Because Embraer had a combat-proven product ready for delivery. Hawker Beechcraft has promiseware.

An examination, not from Hawker-Beechcraft fluffers

LAARA: Beechcraft vs. Embraer

17 posted on 01/07/2012 7:26:50 AM PST by Oztrich Boy (Whatever happened to that Amy Summerland sailing chick?)
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To: bobsunshine
I wonder how much of Embraer George Soros owns?
18 posted on 01/07/2012 7:29:18 AM PST by Gritty (Much of the developed world has ruptured the compact between past, present and future-Mark Steyn)
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To: bobsunshine
...previously considered a front-runner in the ....

Just goes to show that when it comes to lies both sides are adept. The AT-6 was NEVER considered a forerunner. It hadn't (and still has not) even reached a level where it could match capabilities the Super Tucano had proven years before. The Super Tucano was built ground up to be a light-attack COIN aircraft, while the AT-6 was being modified to try and be one. If one wants to make a case for the AT-6 one can go ahead and use the 'Made in America' - however an argument cannot be made based on capabilities.

19 posted on 01/07/2012 7:31:18 AM PST by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: driftdiver
Yeah those prop airplanes are a new fangled contraption, we’d be far better off trusting our military development with a country that has open anti-american tendencies.

We're buying a handful of these long-loiter, low speed aircraft, and it makes much more economic sense to buy off the shelf at a guaranteed price per copy than to sink unknown billions in a new development program for such a low rate of production.

We're not talking primary defense like the F-22 or F-35, but for what it's worth both of those programs were/are years behind schedule and hundreds of billions over projected budget.

20 posted on 01/07/2012 7:33:17 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: Yo-Yo

Sure help foreign companies and economies over our own. makes perfect sense


21 posted on 01/07/2012 7:35:19 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Oztrich Boy

Perhaps we should buy some SU-27s, after all they are a combat proven product ready for delivery.


22 posted on 01/07/2012 7:38:23 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

Thank you from your post. I’d also like to add this:
http://theulstermanreport.com/2011/12/16/leo-gerard-the-most-powerful-man-in-obamas-america


23 posted on 01/07/2012 7:39:04 AM PST by sunny48
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To: bobsunshine

Hawker president Bill Boisture has been very critical of Obama on video from at least 2009 (an interview he made at NBAA - National Business Aircraft Association trade show). Another exec made similar critical remarks in 2011.

The decision reeks of political payback to me.

A significant amount of Embraer work would be performed in FLA, but its not nearly as many jobs as would be maintained if Hawker built it in Wichita. For he record, the HBC AT-6 is license built version of the Swiss Pilatus PC9.


24 posted on 01/07/2012 7:42:28 AM PST by quagmier (There is no "common good" which minimizes or sacrifices the individual. Walter Scott Hudson)
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To: bobsunshine

hawker president and his evp critical of White House & DC:

HBC president (& ex fighter pilot) at NBAA in 2009: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCLYo4NtMCU

2011 NBAA, Hawker EVP Shawn Vick criticizes DC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7nsOPdTN8Y

Having said that, I also would not be surprised to see a Soros hand steering the decision for the USAF thru the WH...


25 posted on 01/07/2012 7:45:01 AM PST by quagmier (There is no "common good" which minimizes or sacrifices the individual. Walter Scott Hudson)
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To: bobsunshine
Just start building these again:


26 posted on 01/07/2012 7:45:01 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Oztrich Boy

Perhaps Embraer does make a better product... but if that were the case the USAF would have come right out and said so.
But they didn’t.
They gave no reason to HBC for their exclusion from the bidding, and then very quietly awarded to project to EMB.


27 posted on 01/07/2012 7:45:18 AM PST by quagmier (There is no "common good" which minimizes or sacrifices the individual. Walter Scott Hudson)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

I’m less concerned about who builds the so-called LAS “attack” aircraft, than who flies them.

I hope neither my AF son or any of his pilot friends draw that assignment. It is a “fool’s errand” against even disorganized light arms fire.

Oldplayer


28 posted on 01/07/2012 7:55:28 AM PST by oldplayer
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To: driftdiver
That's been proposed.

Russian Fighters for American Airforce/Navy: The only prudent solution!

29 posted on 01/07/2012 7:57:18 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: driftdiver
Sure help foreign companies and economies over our own. makes perfect sense In each case the non-Brazilian nation's economy gets a better deal than Brazil, so from their viewpoint it does make perfect sense.

Do you think giving Dollars to Pakistan so they can buy F-16s from Lockheed makes sense?

30 posted on 01/07/2012 7:59:35 AM PST by Oztrich Boy (Whatever happened to that Amy Summerland sailing chick?)
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To: Oztrich Boy

Put another way: the AT-6 is a prototype. The Super Tocano has tooling, a supply network and could very quickly have a factory up and running.

The A-29 is at the starting line while the AT-6 doesn’t have it’s track shoes on yet.

Another critical difference: Kansas is a republican state while Florida could go either way.


31 posted on 01/07/2012 8:01:51 AM PST by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: central_va

Building the A-1 Skyraider would be difficult as I don’t think anybody builts a supercharged radial aircraft engine any longer. A radial is a good engine from the standpoint of withstanding battle damage. Jet engines (and essentially that is what a turboprop is) are delicate things. Not an engine type I would want to take on a straffing/rocket run if I had any choice.


32 posted on 01/07/2012 8:09:24 AM PST by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: bobsunshine
Has it crossed anyone's mind here that the acquisition people at Wright Patterson simply made the best choice for the requirement?

Does everyone understand that these aircraft are for the Afghan Air Force--not the USAF?

33 posted on 01/07/2012 8:32:58 AM PST by paddles ("The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." Tacitus)
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To: Tallguy

I don’t know and don’t care who builds it but I sure would like to see someone develop an air cooled two stroke diesel radial engine...preferably the valveless variety.


34 posted on 01/07/2012 8:33:24 AM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: Tallguy

The “Super” Tucano is less capable than a P-40, a P-39 or a Grumman Wildcat. Far slower, and much less lightly armed.
It cannot refuel and only has 4 hardpoints,, so guess what will be hanging on one of them?
It is so far less capable and survivable for the pilot than in a Warthog, that it’s embarrassing.
It’s useless in many other forseable wars. A bowie knife can do the work of a amall one,, but not the other way around.

This aircraft is a flying reminder that we are be very careful not to offend the enemy by using extremely capable machines. Grunts don’t want this,, procurement officers, politically connected builders, and politicians do.

When you are getting your ass shot up on the ground, you’ll want the help arriving faster than this machine, and you’ll want it to have more like 11 hardpoints and a 30mm cannon. Two 50s and 4 points, on limited fuel, enroute slowly is giving the finger to the ground units.


35 posted on 01/07/2012 8:33:41 AM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: paddles

“Has it crossed anyone’s mind here that the acquisition people at Wright Patterson simply made the best choice for the requirement?”

The same people who are giving us that moonpig F-35 that India refused, that no foreign nation really wants unless enormous diplomatic pressure is brought to bear? THOSE acquistion people?

And if the USAF actually TRULY believes that Afghanistan is going to have a functional Air Force 4 weeks after we leave, then we should disband them for lunacy and let the Marines take over.


36 posted on 01/07/2012 8:39:51 AM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: paddles

“Does everyone understand that these aircraft are for the Afghan Air Force—not the USAF?”

We shouldn’t give a Cessna to a nation that openly announced that they will support Pakistan in any fight against the USA.


37 posted on 01/07/2012 8:42:51 AM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: DesertRhino

I’m guessing that the COIN mission for the proposed light-attack aircraft is more that of obsevation/forward air controller. Essentially the mission of the old Cessna O-2 or maybe the heavier OV-10 Mohawk. The ability to operate from crude forward strips is a key advantage.

But if they are intending to deliver ordnance heavier than smoke rockets on a regular basis, then I would agree with you. I just don’t know much about the viability of the mission that they are looking to fill. I do know that Obama’s cuts to the Army & Marine ground forces are logicaly going to kill Counter-Insurgency operations in general. So this program should be scrapped.


38 posted on 01/07/2012 8:54:27 AM PST by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: DesertRhino

Well then your argument is with this administration and the previous one...not the USAF.


39 posted on 01/07/2012 8:56:19 AM PST by paddles ("The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." Tacitus)
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To: DesertRhino

Uh, India turned down the F/A-18IN not the F-35.


40 posted on 01/07/2012 9:03:14 AM PST by paddles ("The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." Tacitus)
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To: DesertRhino
You are correct. The USAF has no desire to employ the LAARA for our own use. The LAARA is strictly for Foreign Military Sales (FMS). Why the USAF, an organization dominated by the Mach 2 fighter mafia mindset, has to manage this program is an utter mystery to me. The US Army should have managed the program, but was denied. The USAF has consistently demonstrated its inability to manage new aircraft programs, such as the KC-X Tanker Competition and now the LAARA.
41 posted on 01/07/2012 9:07:51 AM PST by MasterGunner01 (11)
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To: paddles

No they do not, they have the other horse saddled and ready to ride. Never saying why would a country leading the world in drone development want to buy such an aircraft.


42 posted on 01/07/2012 9:09:00 AM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Newt, Willard, Perry and nervous supporters.)
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To: spetznaz

You can’t even make that case. The T-6 Texan II is actually a Swiss design that would be built under license in the US by a half Canadian company.


43 posted on 01/07/2012 9:11:12 AM PST by JerseyanExile
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To: bert

The US military has bought Beech aircraft almost continuously since their beginning. They are still purchasing as we speak, so to speak. When it comes to Aircraft there are not many ways to dilute unless your desire is to go out of business.


44 posted on 01/07/2012 9:17:46 AM PST by wita
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To: bobsunshine

Obama HATES the large defense contractors.
So do his key Acquisition Czars.

Is Hawker “large”?
No, but it is an established defense contractor.
That’s part of the American industrial base Obama wants to kill.


45 posted on 01/07/2012 9:21:57 AM PST by G Larry ("I dream of a day when a man is judged by the content of his Character.")
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To: central_va

Really IMHO not a bad idea, especially with turbo prop late model engine.


46 posted on 01/07/2012 9:24:32 AM PST by wita
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To: apoliticalone

No American military hardware should be manufactured outside of this country. Its ridiculous.


47 posted on 01/07/2012 9:45:37 AM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: bobsunshine
The "King" has decided that Brazil is best suited for building our planes

I too would like to blame King Obama but a friend of mine, who is a retired USMC general and Marine aviator, told me that the sale was made in return for Brazil buying F/A-18s from us.

48 posted on 01/07/2012 9:49:23 AM PST by JoeGar
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To: bobsunshine

Buy American has become Bye American under this administration.


49 posted on 01/07/2012 9:54:03 AM PST by Temujinshordes
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To: All

http://www.802u.com/

How about Texas.

Air Tractor, Inc.
P.O. Box 485
Olney, TX 76374


50 posted on 01/07/2012 9:56:21 AM PST by troy McClure
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