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Ron Paul: ‘Israel should be the Hong Kong of the Middle East’
Washington Post ^ | 01/08/2012 | Felicia Sonmez

Posted on 01/08/2012 10:56:14 PM PST by Lattero

At a campaign event that drew more than 300 people here late Sunday afternoon, Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) defended his Israel policy in response to a question from an undecided voter, an answer that included, in part, the suggestion that Israel “should be the Hong Kong of the Middle East.”

“I would want to maintain very close relations with Israel,” Paul said. “I’d want to be a good friend of Israel. And I also want to respect them in many ways that I do not think the United States should undermine their sovereignty in any way.”

He went on to defend his position that the United States should not provide foreign aid to Israel and should not “tell them what to do.”

“If they want to have a peace treaty with their neighbors and they think they can work it out, they shouldn’t have to ask us for permission,” Paul said. “They shouldn’t have to ask us permission to defend their borders. That should be their business. But also, I do not believe that I should take money from anybody here and send money to Israel.”

He then rounded out his answer with the Hong Kong comparison. “We should be friends,” he said. “We should trade with them. I would encourage them to become the Hong Kong of the Middle East, or something like that. You know, have a really affluent society.”

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Israel; Politics/Elections; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: chutzpah; hongkong; israel; randpaultruthfile; ronpaul; ronpaultruthfile; texas
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Huh?
1 posted on 01/08/2012 10:56:22 PM PST by Lattero
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To: Lattero
LOL at first I thought it said "King Kong" and I was really puzzled.
2 posted on 01/08/2012 11:01:07 PM PST by Impy (Don't call me red.)
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To: Lattero

I used to think Ron Paul was just a misguided nut.

I now know he is a lying devious nut. (after watching his smears of other’s positions and creative history of his)


3 posted on 01/08/2012 11:03:00 PM PST by BereanBrain
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To: Lattero

Hong Kong is the jurisdiction of China. Hong Kong residents don’t have the right to govern themselves.

He is saying that Israel, probably especially Jerusalem, should not have the right to govern itself. In effect, Jews living in Israel would have to rely upon the UN to protect it.

Guess what he’s really saying...


4 posted on 01/08/2012 11:03:17 PM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Lattero

I see the monetary support of Israel as part of the war on terror. Thousands of terrorists have met their maker at the hands of the IDF and Mossad.


5 posted on 01/08/2012 11:03:52 PM PST by LukeL (Barack Obama: Jimmy Carter 2 Electric Boogaloo)
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To: Jonty30

You don’t know much if anything about HK.


6 posted on 01/08/2012 11:05:16 PM PST by VicVega ( GEAUX LSU TIGERS, GEAUX SAINTS)
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To: VicVega

I do know that, ultimately, China gets the say, even if China allows a fair bit of freedom.

If China wanted to squish HK, could it?

Thanks for playing.


7 posted on 01/08/2012 11:07:39 PM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Lattero

More incoherent statements from RP - sounds scripted to obfuscate


8 posted on 01/08/2012 11:10:00 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: Jonty30

You just validated your own ignorance of HK.


9 posted on 01/08/2012 11:12:22 PM PST by VicVega ( GEAUX LSU TIGERS, GEAUX SAINTS)
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To: VicVega

The only thing I need to know about HK is its relation to China. China allows the degree of freedom to a state or a satellite as long as its advantageous to the Party to do so, because China does Jack from the good of its heart.

Now, you can always enlighten me as to how I am wrong and well see if I really am wrong.


10 posted on 01/08/2012 11:17:38 PM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Jonty30

Keep reading. It may help you.


11 posted on 01/08/2012 11:19:06 PM PST by VicVega ( GEAUX LSU TIGERS, GEAUX SAINTS)
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To: VicVega

The other Freepers don’t know what Ron Paul might mean by his statement and you won’t elaborate.

Not very helpful, so far.


12 posted on 01/08/2012 11:22:22 PM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Lattero
... His Israel stance in particular has proven a stumbling block among a Republican electorate that typically considers support for the Jewish state sacrosanct.

Some questions that we conservatives ought to be asking ourselves:

Why should this be? Why should Republicans remain steadfast when they receive so little for their fidelity? If you prefer an analysis on other than partisan grounds, why should the United States risk terrorist strikes because of its support for a nation of 4 million to 8 million people with virtually no oil against hundreds of millions of Arabs with oceans of oil?

Is it thrall to the Israeli lobby? Is it thrall to the evangelicals with an eschatological obsession? Is it a commitment to a capitalist democracy? Is it a commitment to a socialist democracy? What do we get out of it?

Do we remain in support of Israel because we have always been in support of Israel and simply cannot extricate ourselves? Why does the left today reject our commitment to Israel which for decades had been a cornerstone of the Democrat platform?

Have American Jews become so secular they are indifferent to the fate of Israel? If so, does that explain why very few American Jews shift their allegiance to the Republican Party in the wake of the Democrats turning against Israel? Is there a visceral dislike of Christians in the American Jewish community which that community identifies with the Republican Party which is so deep that it overcomes their commitment to support for Israel?

If fidelity to an ally requires us to expend billions of dollars and risk nuclear war, does that mean we should continue to spend billions of dollars and risk nuclear war on behalf of South Korea and Taiwan? Do these commitments make us stronger, weaker, more or less vulnerable? Do we apply the same standards to all of our allies irrespective of the power of their lobbies in Washington?

Can the United States financially afford to continue its support of Israel? Can we afford to compensate the Arabs because of our support for Israel in order to get Middle Eastern oil? Do we even know the extent of the financial cost of our support for Israel? Do we really understand the geopolitical implications of our support for Israel? Can we even discuss those implications in a politically correct environment?


13 posted on 01/08/2012 11:27:21 PM PST by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: VicVega

We don’t have anything to read, you won’t spit it out.


14 posted on 01/08/2012 11:27:35 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: VicVega

He wants Israel to be at the mercy of its neighbours, as HK is at the mercy of China.

If China wants to crush HK, US would not interfere.

If Israel’s enemies want to crush Israel, and are able to do it, US should not interfere.

So far, it supports what I said.

Tell me again, how wrong I am.


15 posted on 01/08/2012 11:28:09 PM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: LukeL

Military assistance for Israel looks like a good investment.

But economic assistance is another matter.

A nation that is 16 trillion dollars in debt needs to cut spending somewhere.

Foreign aid anyone????????


16 posted on 01/08/2012 11:30:00 PM PST by Nextrush (President Sarah Palin sounds just right to me)
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To: Lattero

Hong Kong reverted, ie was given back to China. So does this mean Paul wants to give Israel back to the Palis?


17 posted on 01/08/2012 11:31:11 PM PST by JLS (How to turn a recession into a depression: elect a Dem president with a big majorities in Congress)
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To: Impy

I read it the same way as well. LOL


18 posted on 01/08/2012 11:33:25 PM PST by Tramonto (Draft Palin)
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To: Jonty30

In particular, Hong Kong doesn’t have its own army, it depends on China for its defense needs (meaning that China’s army is, for any practical purpose, keeping a gun trained on them). For Israel, that situation would mean being just a step from destruction.


19 posted on 01/08/2012 11:55:47 PM PST by Moose Burger
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To: Moose Burger

Absolutely.

But as long as the Paulbots get their legal tokes, life is good.


20 posted on 01/09/2012 12:06:55 AM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Lattero

Why is this assclown polling at 25%?


21 posted on 01/09/2012 12:17:07 AM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: nathanbedford

Because Sir, they are steadfast in the wake.


22 posted on 01/09/2012 12:20:20 AM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Jonty30
Some of you need to watch the video again. Right after he said that (that they should be like the Hong Kong of the Middle East), he said a very "you know, have a really affluent society." That was a positive thing.

Also, I find it amazing that even after he said so many things like we should be friends with them, trade with them, and they should have their independence and sovereignty, and that cutting aid to BOTH sides is actually a benefit to Israel... the anti's here ignore all of that, and instead focus on one thing he said, and try to twist it. Fer crying out loud.

23 posted on 01/09/2012 12:21:20 AM PST by incindiary (http://youtu.be/ifJG_oFFDK0)
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To: nathanbedford

I would argue that we should also support Turkey and Iraq.

Divide the great beast with freedom from the straits of bospherous to the straits of hormuz.


24 posted on 01/09/2012 12:25:32 AM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: incindiary

I think US should be just like Hong Kong. You know, affluent.

Do you really believe I mean that?

The fact is that Israel is already like Hong Kong in that matter. They are a relatively affluent society. So why is Ron Paul saying that they should be as affluent as Hong Kong, when they already pretty much are?


25 posted on 01/09/2012 12:25:48 AM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Lattero
Oh ok, I see what the problem is. The same thing that I suspect happens on most of the threads having to do with Ron Paul. Many people probably don't even bother clicking on the article, or watching the video. They just see the headline, and immediately react in a knee-jerk way. That is the pattern I see here, over and over.

Anyway, here is the video clip of that townhall meeting, in case anyone wants to see it: http://youtu.be/RHmgoFDkqoA

26 posted on 01/09/2012 12:26:48 AM PST by incindiary (http://youtu.be/ifJG_oFFDK0)
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To: Jonty30; ansel12; VicVega

Maybe VicVega was talking about when Hong Kong was a British colony?

I visited Hong Kong before it reverted to Chinese rule.

Now it’s part of a communist country.


27 posted on 01/09/2012 12:29:54 AM PST by dixiechick2000 (Proud barbarian TEA Party SOB and an evil Capitalist.)
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To: dixiechick2000

I’ll give him that possibility, as most college kids are highly ill informed about the world, to put it mildly.

They perceptions, as anybody who doesn’t keep themselves well informed, are often formed by the shows or movies they watch.


28 posted on 01/09/2012 12:36:12 AM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Jonty30
There is always room for a country to grow in prosperity... and they certainly should be able to be independent and sovereign, which I think is the more important point.

Here's another short video to take a look at, speaking of respecting their independence and sovereignty: Benjamin Netanyahu and Dr. Ron Paul

29 posted on 01/09/2012 12:38:55 AM PST by incindiary (http://youtu.be/ifJG_oFFDK0)
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To: incindiary

Yep...


30 posted on 01/09/2012 12:39:23 AM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: incindiary

I read the article.

Ron Paul is an isolationist. Isolationism means leaving other countries to their fate.

As far as Paul is concerned, if Israel cannot stand up to 2 billions Muslims and survive, that’s Israel’s problem.

That’s been his long standing position, regardless how he tries to put lipstick on it.


31 posted on 01/09/2012 12:42:39 AM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Jonty30; VicVega

“I’ll give him that possibility, as most college kids are highly ill informed about the world, to put it mildly.”

Many adults are, too. ;o)

“They perceptions, as anybody who doesn’t keep themselves well informed, are often formed by the shows or movies they watch.”

And, you tube videos where the politician is being disingenuous as to his real beliefs.


32 posted on 01/09/2012 12:43:44 AM PST by dixiechick2000 (Proud barbarian TEA Party SOB and an evil Capitalist.)
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To: nathanbedford

Good questions.

For me, Israel is the only good thing in the M.E. in terms of government and society. Their existence and success is a constant reminder of that.

Second, Israel’s fight is our fight. We have a common enemy. Their successes are ours, their failure would be ours and strengthen our enemy.

Third, they are a bargain. The most they have asked for is material in time of war. Compared with what Iraq cost, Israel is a real value investment.

Fourth, morally, their portion of the Palestinian mandate was given to them for a state, a place to go to get away from the historical constant of oppression and pogrom. It was a piece of mostly desert and they made it bloom and thrive with generations of hard work and determination.

IMHO, of course.


33 posted on 01/09/2012 12:43:59 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: dixiechick2000; VicVega

It looks like we will never know.


34 posted on 01/09/2012 12:44:36 AM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: nathanbedford

I support Israel because I’m a Christian.

Plain and simple...


35 posted on 01/09/2012 12:46:09 AM PST by dixiechick2000 (Proud barbarian TEA Party SOB and an evil Capitalist.)
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To: ansel12; VicVega

Yep...I kept reading, though. lol


36 posted on 01/09/2012 12:47:11 AM PST by dixiechick2000 (Proud barbarian TEA Party SOB and an evil Capitalist.)
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To: D-fendr

God bless you bump!


37 posted on 01/09/2012 12:48:54 AM PST by dixiechick2000 (Proud barbarian TEA Party SOB and an evil Capitalist.)
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To: dixiechick2000

You are correct on this.

I don’t rely on campaign videos to determine my position on an individual, but their general conduct when they are just doing business or governing day by day.


38 posted on 01/09/2012 12:49:31 AM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Jonty30

You are very astute.


39 posted on 01/09/2012 12:52:58 AM PST by dixiechick2000 (Proud barbarian TEA Party SOB and an evil Capitalist.)
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To: Jonty30

If you are an illegal alien FReeper, you’re one I’m proud to know. ;o)


40 posted on 01/09/2012 12:54:13 AM PST by dixiechick2000 (Proud barbarian TEA Party SOB and an evil Capitalist.)
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To: Jonty30

or worse, it should be the bailiwick of slammie countries that surround it


41 posted on 01/09/2012 12:58:53 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: Jonty30
He is not an isolationist. He wants to trade with other nations, be friends with them, and respect their sovereignty - not build "walls" so to speak. Some would argue that what actually is "isolationist" is to have a foreign policy that is aggressive, and controlling or manipulative... because ultimately, that creates enemies or negative feelings toward the US, is that what we want?

As far as what you said about Israel - I disagree, because if we give 5 times as much to Israel's enemies, then cutting aid to both sides ends being a net advantage for Israel.

Let me ask you this... How would you feel if another nation, of even a global organization like the U.N ignored our independence and desire for sovereignty, and did things to get control over us, disrespecting our constitution or the will of the people? Would you like that?

42 posted on 01/09/2012 12:58:53 AM PST by incindiary (http://youtu.be/ifJG_oFFDK0)
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To: dixiechick2000

I find US politics far more interesting than my Canadian politics.


43 posted on 01/09/2012 1:07:00 AM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: nathanbedford
Why should this be? Why should Republicans remain steadfast when they receive so little for their fidelity? If you prefer an analysis on other than partisan grounds, why should the United States risk terrorist strikes because of its support for a nation of 4 million to 8 million people with virtually no oil against hundreds of millions of Arabs with oceans of oil?
Because Islamists hate us for a host of reasons unrelated to Israel and showing our weakness by surrending friends invites attack.

Is it thrall to the Israeli lobby? Is it thrall to the evangelicals with an eschatological obsession? Is it a commitment to a capitalist democracy? Is it a commitment to a socialist democracy? What do we get out of it?
If by Israel lobby you mean that vast majority of American cities, um yes.
And Socialists? I suppose, but so are we. And Israel is becomming less socialist every month.

Do we remain in support of Israel because we have always been in support of Israel and simply cannot extricate ourselves? Why does the left today reject our commitment to Israel which for decades had been a cornerstone of the Democrat platform?
Always in what?
In 1948, we recorgnized Israel, then banned arms sales to Israel, while that Arabs had American and British weapons. Some support.
In 1956, we betrayed Britain and France just to screw Israel and protect the Arab Socialists, who still went Soviet, because they were ideological bent on this, regardless of the anticolonialist delusion of the schmuck behind "Atoms for Peace" and operation Keephaul.

We protected the PLO in the 1980s, and the price of getting Syrian support to help liberal Kuwait was forcing Israel to betray Lebanese Christians and put Hizbollah on their borders. Shall I continue with our support, or will you admitt that the claim of always is silly error?

Have American Jews become so secular they are indifferent to the fate of Israel? If so, does that explain why very few American Jews shift their allegiance to the Republican Party in the wake of the Democrats turning against Israel? Is there a visceral dislike of Christians in the American Jewish community which that community identifies with the Republican Party which is so deep that it overcomes their commitment to support for Israel?
25% of Jews don't care of Israel. Of this group 80% are Democrats. Many other Jews care about Israel, but desperately want peace.

If fidelity to an ally requires us to expend billions of dollars and risk nuclear war, does that mean we should continue to spend billions of dollars and risk nuclear war on behalf of South Korea and Taiwan? Do these commitments make us stronger, weaker, more or less vulnerable? Do we apply the same standards to all of our allies irrespective of the power of their lobbies in Washington?
The only time we risked nuclear war for Israel was 1973.
And selling out Israel won't make us any less vulnerable. We are dealing with lunatics. Bin Ladin blame the US for Serbia "atrocities" and Russian atrocities in Chechnya.

I'm more than happy to discuss this in a non-PC manner, so long as we are dealing with facts.

44 posted on 01/09/2012 1:15:29 AM PST by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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To: nathanbedford

It is probably as simple as “never again”.


45 posted on 01/09/2012 1:15:44 AM PST by DB
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To: incindiary
How would you feel if another nation, of even a global organization like the U.N ignored our independence and desire for sovereignty, and did things to get control over us, disrespecting our constitution or the will of the people? Would you like that?

The U.N., no. It's an organization mostly of tyrants and dictators.

Ignoring this part, I think you are falling into moral equivalence. To take an extreme example: did we have the right to get control over Hitler and disrespect their sovereignty? Of course, because they were a threat to our freedom.

Do Israel's enemies threaten our freedom? I think so. Does our support for allies against them cause them to threaten our freedom? I don't see the logical argument for that. They wish to triumph over all free nations and bring them under the rule of Islam. To them, we are their eternal enemies until we are subdued.

We have the right to intervene for our own protection, that is not questionable, IMHO. We can debate where that is justified, how much, at what cost, when, etc. But not the basic concept. All governments, all nations are not morally equivalent. There are very bad and dangerous ones out there. Always will be.

46 posted on 01/09/2012 1:16:04 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: incindiary

“He wants to trade with other nations, be friends with them, and respect their sovereignty - not build “walls” so to speak. Some would argue that what actually is “isolationist” is to have a foreign policy that is aggressive, and controlling or manipulative... because ultimately, that creates enemies or negative feelings toward the US, is that what we want?”

Those same words could have come right out of Obama’s mouth.

Blame America first.

Frankly, as a country, I don’t want to be liked.

I want to be feared.


47 posted on 01/09/2012 1:17:41 AM PST by dixiechick2000 (Proud barbarian TEA Party SOB and an evil Capitalist.)
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To: incindiary

Prior to giving aid to Muslim countries, there were many attacks upon Israel. That aid bought the world peace.

If trade would give us the peace that we seek, there would have been peace between Israel and the Palestineans, because Israel at one time had a thriving trade with Palestine.

I’m more tham willing to cut AID to the Israel and the Muslim world, but there will be one of two paths, or both to take. We will either end up sending soldiers to help protect Israel or we will end up dropping nukes on the Muslim countries.

You tell me which is the preferable path.


48 posted on 01/09/2012 1:19:06 AM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Jonty30

Ha! I guess watching us self-destruct is a lot more interesting than watching you guys get your house in order. ;o)


49 posted on 01/09/2012 1:19:36 AM PST by dixiechick2000 (Proud barbarian TEA Party SOB and an evil Capitalist.)
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To: dixiechick2000

It is, though at the time when Canada hit its wall, we were worse off than either Europe or the US.

We were just lucky when it happened.


50 posted on 01/09/2012 1:27:10 AM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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