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‘Starving’ Ph.D.s deserve low pay
BIZPACReview.com ^ | 1/09/2012 | John R. Smith

Posted on 01/09/2012 6:08:48 AM PST by SmileRight

In this age of mainstream news reporters ignorant of economics, the media rarely trumpets the power and truth of free markets and the laws of Supply and Demand, very real forces in our daily lives that confound, embarrass and reject socialist politics.

The free market communicates important information. This is why socialist and left-leaning politicians, who hate free markets, operate in economic illiteracy. The free market places no real importance on government contrived social measures that lack real-world value. When the free market speaks, socialist economic theories tremble.

An example of the free market correcting economic nonsense is the “socially responsible” mutual fund, investing only in companies that engage in politically correct behavior. Investors in such funds haven’t seen much in the way of big profits; investors may have appeased their social conscience, but at quite a price. As the philosopher Montesquieu wrote, “Virtue itself has need of limits.” The return on these funds generally has been far lower than ...

(Excerpt) Read more at bizpacreview.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: academia; acedemia; freemarket; freemarkets; jobs; phds
The free market is what has made this country great for over 200 years. Perhaps the Ph.D.s need to read a little more history.
1 posted on 01/09/2012 6:08:59 AM PST by SmileRight
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To: SmileRight

2 posted on 01/09/2012 6:11:55 AM PST by ASA Vet (Natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. De Vattel)
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To: SmileRight

3 posted on 01/09/2012 6:14:00 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: SmileRight
“Virtue itself has need of limits.”

IMHO, virtue has no need of limits, but virtue is its own reward. Therein lies the problem in trying to make a living off of it.

4 posted on 01/09/2012 6:15:22 AM PST by Jack of all Trades (Hold your face to the light, even though for the moment you do not see.)
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To: SmileRight

I don’t think anyone deserves low pay. I don’t believe that there are many PHd’s who are indigent. I am sure more high school drop outs are. If companies are not hiring PHD’s then leave it off your resume. I have an MBA but didn’t include it on a job that I was applying for because I didn’t want that “over qualified” nonsense. The reason that companies don’t want to take folks with higher qualifications then they ask for is because they know most likely they will not stay with the company for long. Having a PHD is a benefit that they should embrace and use it when necessary. My only question is what are they going to do when everyone has a PHD? Are they going to start another degree program?


5 posted on 01/09/2012 6:15:57 AM PST by napscoordinator (Go Rick! Go Rick! Go Newt! Let's get 'er done.)
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To: SmileRight

I hold a Ph.D. in Psychology, and the only time I came close to starving was while I was in graduate school and dependent on available assistantships. This experience (along with a couple of others) caused me to wise-up, and I structured my course of study to emphasize classes in the more applied areas of the discipline (statistics, survey methodology, industrial/organizational, human factors). As a result, I’ve made a pretty decent living outside of academia for the last 25-years.


6 posted on 01/09/2012 6:18:12 AM PST by Arm_Bears (Journalists first; then lawyers.)
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To: SmileRight

Exactly. This is why the free market is so incredibly important. When I read this article, I also thought of the exchanges that Chris Christie had with teachers in New Jersey. The one made $86,000 per year plus premium healthcare and pension benefits for 9 months of work and thought she deserved more because she had her teaching degree and her job was “important” in her mind. If the market doesn’t determine your salary, political pressure will.

College education is not all that its cracked up to be. I’m not going to say its worthless but it could be a lot better. The rot is hidden by the fact that there are so many subsidies for college that its easy for people to go and waste time there learning irrelevant things.


7 posted on 01/09/2012 6:18:23 AM PST by Opinionated Blowhard ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
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To: Travis McGee

She looks like she smells really bad.


8 posted on 01/09/2012 6:22:53 AM PST by albie
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To: SmileRight

As I posted in another thread yesterday.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2650612/posts

Wildly overeducated Mike Rowe gets it.


9 posted on 01/09/2012 6:23:21 AM PST by cripplecreek (Stand with courage or shut up and do as you're told.)
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To: Travis McGee; Mrs. B.S. Roberts

The SCAM OF THE CENTURY is being pulled off by the Universities that are continuing to produce hordes of PHD’s and other degree holders for whom there are NO jobs, for whom there has never been enough jobs, and for whom there will NEVER be adequate employment opportunities.
The now jailed Bernie Maddof stole the possessed assets of his investors. The Academic SCAMMERS are busy stealing the FUTURE and virtually unatainable assets of their students.
Ever hear of the “student load” crisis?


10 posted on 01/09/2012 6:24:13 AM PST by CaptainAmiigaf ( NY Times: We print the news as it fits our views.)
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To: Arm_Bears

I have a similar background and foucssed on what you called the more applied areas of the discipline (industrial/organizational, human factors) etc. As a result I too have made a pretty decent living outside of academia.


11 posted on 01/09/2012 6:24:37 AM PST by rhombus
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To: napscoordinator

Using academic qualifications (other than area of study) as a criterion for experienced candidate evaluation is ridiculous. The reason that employers do this is that they are prohibited from conducting IQ testing.


12 posted on 01/09/2012 6:28:15 AM PST by oblomov
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To: Travis McGee

“Complains there are no jobs for college grads . . . majors in 12th century English poetry.”

Also has unkempt, Medusa-type hair. I wouldn’t allow her hair in my office for fear that it might spread some 12th century plague.


13 posted on 01/09/2012 6:29:29 AM PST by SharpRightTurn ( White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
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To: SmileRight
Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations, Book I-III from 1776 would be a good start.

Book I begins with "Of the Causes of Improvement in the Productive Powers of Labour, and of the Order According to Which its Produce is Naturally Distributed Among the Different Ranks of the People", Chapter One "Of the Division of Labour" ...

Then, moving on, Joseph Schumpter's "Creative Destruction from his 1942 book Capitalism, Socialism, and Democracy, especially the impact on innovation to extant markets.

Today, there are no "free markets" - far to much government regulation and currency manipulation - just ask the Federal Reserve.

14 posted on 01/09/2012 6:35:30 AM PST by jamaksin
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To: SmileRight
Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations, Book I-III from 1776 would be a good start.

Book I begins with "Of the Causes of Improvement in the Productive Powers of Labour, and of the Order According to Which its Produce is Naturally Distributed Among the Different Ranks of the People", Chapter One "Of the Division of Labour" ...

Then, moving on, Joseph Schumpter's "Creative Destruction from his 1942 book Capitalism, Socialism, and Democracy, especially the impact on innovation to extant markets.

Today, there are no "free markets" - far to much government regulation and currency manipulation - just ask the Federal Reserve.

15 posted on 01/09/2012 6:35:41 AM PST by jamaksin
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To: Travis McGee

I hate COMPAINERS.


16 posted on 01/09/2012 6:36:05 AM PST by mountn man (Happiness is not a destination, its a way of life.)
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To: SmileRight

This is from an OWS rally in Denver, I think. Debt to banks is slavery but debt to the federal govt is freedom to these pukes.

17 posted on 01/09/2012 6:38:14 AM PST by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: oblomov
The reason that employers do this is that they are prohibited from conducting IQ testing.

... and the conclusion is that people with PhDs have low IQs.

18 posted on 01/09/2012 6:39:22 AM PST by HIDEK6
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To: napscoordinator
My only question is what are they going to do when everyone has a PHD? Are they going to start another degree program?

No they will stop giving out loans to pay for PHDs that can't increase the student's earning potential enough to pay for the loan. It is already happening. As you said in your post people are refusing to put their degrees on their job applications. So any money spent on that degree was a waste when applying for that job.

The era of free government money is coming to an end one way or the other. Either conservatives win big and cut the spending, or Obama wins and we go the way of Greece. Either way the free ride will be over. And when it does there will be a lot of ethnic studies PHDs who's diplomas will be put to the same use as those 1990s .com stock certificates. That is either toilet paper or a painful reminder of a bad investment.
19 posted on 01/09/2012 6:45:37 AM PST by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: Travis McGee

‘Compains’?

Is that like ‘refudiate’?


20 posted on 01/09/2012 6:45:37 AM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: Opinionated Blowhard

Oh. For a degree higher than a piled higher and deeper, maybe they can verify that the candidate actually KNOWS something of value.
Or maybe they could fix our institutions of higher education which have been driven into a ditch by prosecuting a large portion of academia for malpractice. “Pontificating while deluded.”


21 posted on 01/09/2012 6:48:33 AM PST by jim999
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To: napscoordinator

I have an MBA but didn’t include it on a job that I was applying for because I didn’t want that “over qualified” nonsense.

<><><><

I would not advise others to do as you have done, and I’ve recruited for what was then an 8 billion/yr organization.

The background check will reveal it, and it will raise questions as to the level of your honesty.

I would advise a pro-active strategy of discussing why an MBA is seeking a job where an MBA might be an oddity.

JMO.


22 posted on 01/09/2012 6:59:07 AM PST by dmz
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To: raybbr

>>> but debt to the federal govt is freedom to these pukes.

Very soon, these pukes will learn nobody gives a shiite for your being a slave to the gubmint.


23 posted on 01/09/2012 7:00:49 AM PST by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
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To: jim999

Eliminate all tenure.


24 posted on 01/09/2012 7:01:37 AM PST by allendale
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To: Travis McGee

hahaha great pic and so true


25 posted on 01/09/2012 7:01:51 AM PST by Jacvin
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To: SmileRight

I suspect that the increasing numbers of Masters and PhDs is due a lot to the poor job market. “Hard” major graduates (e.g., math and science) have high employment rates and get jobs upon graduation, but “soft” degrees seem to lead to joblessness and more schooling.


26 posted on 01/09/2012 7:02:55 AM PST by JoeGar
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To: HIDEK6

I have personally known several people with advanced degrees, including a PHD, that simply weren’t very bright. It all depends.


27 posted on 01/09/2012 7:07:54 AM PST by Jacvin
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To: Travis McGee

Nothing wrong majoring in 12th century English poetry if this is your “passion”. Just don’t annoy us and demand your college loans be forgiven when you find this degree is of no help in the job market. Maybe you can go to grad school with this degree if daddy is willing to keep funding you


28 posted on 01/09/2012 7:08:35 AM PST by dennisw (A nation of sheep breeds a government of Democrat wolves!)
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To: JoeGar
“Hard” major graduates (e.g., math and science) have high employment rates and get jobs upon graduation, but “soft” degrees seem to lead to joblessness and more schooling.

Architecture is a "Hard" major, and it is still getting killed. That appears to be the exception rather than the rule. Engineers, MDs, Physical Therapists all have rates down in the 4-5% range.

Some fields are hard to judge by degree only. As a computer programmer my degrees don't matter so much as my certifications. Having a masters doesn't boost your income so much as a high school degree, and a SCJD (Sun Certified Java Developer). It is still education that makes the difference in pay, but it is trade school rather than a four year degree that makes the difference.
29 posted on 01/09/2012 7:13:37 AM PST by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: JoeGar
Guess I should shelf my plans to get my PhD in Early Tibetan Literature on hold.
30 posted on 01/09/2012 7:16:38 AM PST by Kozy (Calling Al Gore)
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To: SmileRight
Doctorate in Social Justice

"...The ED 691E core includes a minimum of four weekend seminars selected from the following seven choices: Ableism, Anti-Semitism, Religious Oppression, Classism, Transgender oppression, Heterosexism, Racism and Sexism..."

31 posted on 01/09/2012 7:25:31 AM PST by pabianice (")
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To: Travis McGee

She needs a bath and a haircut too.


32 posted on 01/09/2012 7:31:46 AM PST by x_plus_one (Obama: Brainwashing the masses to believe that racism is a greater danger than radical Islam)
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To: GonzoGOP

“Some fields are hard to judge by degree only.”

I agree. My political consulting career has been helped tremendously by my degree in psychology. ;)


33 posted on 01/09/2012 7:35:32 AM PST by SmileRight
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To: SmileRight

American university students are the new sharecroppers in our nation. The university professors are the new plantation owners.


34 posted on 01/09/2012 7:43:19 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: Jacvin

That’s what I said. If you get a PhD, you aren’t very smart.


35 posted on 01/09/2012 7:45:48 AM PST by HIDEK6
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To: napscoordinator

Hell, in THIS job market, you’d better tell them you’re homeless, illegal, speak no English, toothless, out on bail, and living off public assistance, or you don’t even get considered. ANY of the grocery stores will not even look at an applicant unless they exhibit some quality of the mentally challenged. Discrimination is the norm, especially AGE.


36 posted on 01/09/2012 8:12:51 AM PST by arrdon (Never underestimate the stupidity of the American voter.)
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To: SmileRight

The glut of PhDs has been around since the 1950s. Universities, however, are more than happy to keep cranking them out, fully aware that almost none of them will get hired.

And ironically enough, even in an extremely tight market, this does not mean that universities only choose “the cream of the crop” in PhDs. Instead their hiring is often based on connections and political affiliation.


37 posted on 01/09/2012 8:14:12 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: Travis McGee

L


38 posted on 01/09/2012 8:19:42 AM PST by Jeff Chandler (Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati)
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To: Travis McGee

Is the joke supposed to be that the photo caption has misspelled the word “Complain”? I’ve seen several versions of the same photo with different captions without noticing if they were also misspelled.


39 posted on 01/09/2012 8:22:37 AM PST by elvis-lives
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To: SmileRight

PHD = Piled Higher and Deeper


40 posted on 01/09/2012 9:00:44 AM PST by DFG
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To: allendale

Agreed. Tenure is why education is in the mess it’s in. While we’re at it, let’s eliminate teachers unions.


41 posted on 01/09/2012 1:43:30 PM PST by Doors
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
The glut of PhDs has been around since the 1950s. Universities, however, are more than happy to keep cranking them out, fully aware that almost none of them will get hired.

Professors teach ever fewer numbers of classes per year. They crank out PhDs in fields like "women's studies," then require every undergrad to take a class in this field. No wonder college costs are rising faster than almost any other category.

42 posted on 01/09/2012 3:56:21 PM PST by Freee-dame
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To: dmz

“I have an MBA but didn’t include it on a job that I was applying for because I didn’t want that “over qualified” nonsense.

<><><><

I would not advise others to do as you have done, and I’ve recruited for what was then an 8 billion/yr organization.”

Easy to say as a spectator. I had a neighbor decades ago who had an engineering degree and an MBA (from a second-rate school). He spent 8 months trying to get a job. Then he dropped the MBA from his resume and got scooped up IMMEDIATELY, by a large company. As to his ‘honesty’, yes, that could hurt him, but since he didn’t lie to get a higher paying job, there’s no reason to can him for that - but yes, they would have extra justification should they want (or need) to can him for another reason.


43 posted on 01/09/2012 6:53:58 PM PST by BobL ("Heartless" and "Inhumane" FReepers for Cain - we've HAD ENOUGH)
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To: BobL

Easy to say as a spectator. I had a neighbor decades ago who had an engineering degree and an MBA (from a second-rate school). He spent 8 months trying to get a job. Then he dropped the MBA from his resume and got scooped up IMMEDIATELY, by a large company

<><><><><>

A spectator? I have no idea what you mean.

I’ve been on the business side of recruiting, oh, and on the job seeker side as well. And the job market today is wildly different than it was decades ago.

Just expressing my opinion, having had to ask why folks choose to leave stuff off of their resume. It’s rather uncomfortable for both sides.

Of course, when you can demonstrate that it was because of the lack of the MBA that got him the job to the exclusion of other variables, I will be happy to eat my shoe leather. I’m not anticipating that happening, though.

It is not advisable to either pad or dumb down your resume. I have hired people for different jobs than the ones they were originally interviewing for based on the resume and the interview. Just my experience and my opinion.


44 posted on 01/09/2012 7:10:33 PM PST by dmz
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To: dmz

“A spectator? I have no idea what you mean.

I’ve been on the business side of recruiting, oh, and on the job seeker side as well. And the job market today is wildly different than it was decades ago.”

Doesn’t sound so much different. Back then employers feared people with MBAs because of their (rightly or wrongly) assumed attitude that these people would bring to the company. What I read this evening was IDENTICAL to what I was hearing back then, so I responded with EXACTLY what worked from back then.

As to my friend, how much longer than 8 months should he have waited before trying a different approach?


45 posted on 01/09/2012 7:39:48 PM PST by BobL ("Heartless" and "Inhumane" FReepers for Cain - we've HAD ENOUGH)
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