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Haiti Can Be Rich Again
New York Times ^ | January 8, 2012 | Laurent DuBois and Deborah Jenson

Posted on 01/09/2012 7:05:07 AM PST by C19fan

HAITI wasn’t always the “poorest nation in the Western hemisphere,” though it’s almost impossible to read about the country today without coming across that phrase. In the two years since the earthquake that devastated it, Haiti has experienced political conflict and its first ever cholera epidemic; hundreds of thousands of the displaced are still living in makeshift tents strewn like dusty flags by the sides of highways. It is easy to forget that, for most of the 19th century, Haiti was a site of agricultural innovation, productivity and economic success.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: haiti
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Considering how populated the country is now, the population went from 4 million to now ten million in the past 50 years, giving every family a plot of land would leave them with a plot the size of a garden.
1 posted on 01/09/2012 7:05:10 AM PST by C19fan
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To: C19fan

Haiti is a lost cause.
Pull the plug and let it sink.


2 posted on 01/09/2012 7:16:23 AM PST by Joe Boucher ((FUBO))
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To: C19fan

Haiti has some of the most beautiful beaches in the Caribbean. What it really needs to do if it wants to emerge from hell is stop its discrimination against white people and invite in outside investment.


3 posted on 01/09/2012 7:20:29 AM PST by hampdenkid
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To: C19fan

Haiti is hopeless except maybe tourism and mass exodus.

It’s never been rich for the folks...only for the King and subsequent clownish despots

it truly is a mess

a small enterprising oligarchy of mostly expats has prospered but at a high price...problematic place to live...I know having done it and I got to live nice there though my former digs got pancaked

friendly enough tribal type people though very superstitutious and emotional and easily whipped up

difficult place to govern even had it been the Brits

anyone whining here should thank God they were not born there

geographically it’s not too bad though

Haiti is the only black nation where I can say I never picked up on any anti white aniumus and lord knows they once had it and slaughtered those whites foolish enough to have stayed or been caught up in the slave revolts.

That may have changed though, folks tell me that it’s gotten worse in JA


4 posted on 01/09/2012 7:20:39 AM PST by wardaddy (I fear we cannot beat Roger Ailes and beltway GOP)
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To: hampdenkid
What it really needs to do if it wants to emerge from hell is stop its discrimination against white people and invite in outside investment.

Heck, even stopping the discrimination against lighter-skinned blacks would be a good start.

5 posted on 01/09/2012 7:21:16 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: wardaddy

France’s fault.


6 posted on 01/09/2012 7:24:02 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: C19fan

Haiti consists of approximiately 10,641 sq. miles. Doing some quick math, 10,641 sq. miles = 296,654,054,400 sq. feet.

With a population of 10,000,000 this works out to 29.6 sq. ft for every man, woman and child. Yes, every person on the island has less than 30 sq. ft. This includes uninhabitable land as well, so the number is likely significantly less than 30 sq. ft.

So, quick question.
“How did a land mass that is utterly incapable of supporting this population, become so densely populated?”

There is no way that the land could sustain this population, let alone grow the population to this point. The suffering they are enjoying now, is due largely to unrestrained and unrealistic “Compassion”. The “Civilized” world provided food and assistance to a population that was ridiculously over-populated, and not only perpetuated a problem, but actually magnified the suffering. This is unsustainable - who is to blame? Well, primarily the blame goes to the people who, regardless of common sense; decided to have large families who they could neither afford, nor could they feed; but the people who were equally complicit in this mess are the ‘Compassionate’ ones; who assisted and enabled this sort of suffering to not only continue; but magnified this suffering to what we see today.


7 posted on 01/09/2012 7:25:45 AM PST by Hodar ( Who needs laws; when this FEELS so right?)
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To: C19fan

Too much VooDoo Economics.


8 posted on 01/09/2012 7:26:58 AM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: C19fan

Haiti has no chance.
It will fall to African levels of poverty and stay there. African levels of disease, African levels of intelligence and African levels of violence.


9 posted on 01/09/2012 7:27:15 AM PST by Bon mots ("When seconds count, the police are just minutes away...")
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

It was actually not bad off until Papa Doc took over.


10 posted on 01/09/2012 7:27:59 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: C19fan

Through our “New Horizons” civil engineering exercises back in the 1990s, we did our level best to help those people. Mere minutes after ribbon cutting ceremonies at whatever new school, church or municipal building our troops constructed, but locals rushed in and stripped out everything of remote value and sold it on the streets outside.

Haitians don’t give two sh*ts about what constitutes the “future.” They plan only on day-to-day survival.


11 posted on 01/09/2012 7:30:34 AM PST by ScottinVA (Liberal logic: 0bamacare mandate is acceptable... but voter IDs are unconstitutional.)
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To: C19fan

Interesting story, but when the author started a sentence with “...the government should....” I realized that I had mistakenly begun to believe an article in the NYT...the soon to be bankrupt paper that cannot even make a profit for itself...let alone Haiti.


12 posted on 01/09/2012 7:30:43 AM PST by Da Coyote (Z)
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To: hampdenkid

“What it really needs to do if it wants to emerge from hell is stop its discrimination against white people and invite in outside investment.”

In other words, cease to be Haiti.

The essence of Haiti is hatred of whites. It’s not “discrimination”. Hatred of whites is the foundational principle of the state, without which the state would cease to exist.

Haiti is a problem without a solution.


13 posted on 01/09/2012 7:31:00 AM PST by Jim Noble ("The Germans: At your feet, or at your throat" - Winston Churchill)
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To: ScottinVA

but locals = the locals


14 posted on 01/09/2012 7:31:37 AM PST by ScottinVA (Liberal logic: 0bamacare mandate is acceptable... but voter IDs are unconstitutional.)
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To: C19fan

I think we all know what the problem is.

There is a reason they call places like Detroit, MI and Camden, NJ “Little Haiti”.


15 posted on 01/09/2012 7:32:33 AM PST by Iron Munro ("Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight he'll just kill you." John Steinbeck)
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To: Jim Noble
The essence of Haiti is hatred of whites.

That's why it is called Hate-y.

On the other hand, every single decision Obama makes is to harm America.

16 posted on 01/09/2012 7:33:26 AM PST by Lazamataz (Every single decision Obama makes is to harm America.)
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To: C19fan

The small farms can’t become viable as long as the country lives off foreign aid. Who is going to buy food when you can get if for free? They have an entire generation that has never worked for anything. Fixing pot holes, as the idiots who wrote this article suggested, isn’t going to put the situation right.


17 posted on 01/09/2012 7:35:23 AM PST by Old North State (Don't blame me, I voted for Pedro)
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To: wardaddy
friendly enough tribal type people though very superstitutious and emotional and easily whipped up

That sounds like a description of the Democrat National Convention.

18 posted on 01/09/2012 7:35:32 AM PST by Jeff Chandler (Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati)
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To: Jim Noble

Unfortunately, you are right on target. I didn’t realize how bad it was until a Honduran friend of mind explained it to me (I have a home there). He said, “Haiti will never be able to emerge until they reject their racism. Every move they make is based upon their hatred of white people.”

Peculiar people: they don’t mind embracing satan (voodooism), but they just can’t stand we white folks for something the French and British did eons ago.


19 posted on 01/09/2012 7:36:10 AM PST by hampdenkid
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To: C19fan

Voodoo is not a stable economic plan for growth and prosperity.

20 posted on 01/09/2012 7:37:07 AM PST by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: Hodar
Doing some quick math, 10,641 sq. miles = 296,654,054,400 sq. feet.

You're doing OK so far.

With a population of 10,000,000 this works out to 29.6 sq. ft for every man, woman and child. Yes, every person on the island has less than 30 sq. ft.

No it doesn't. Do your math again.

21 posted on 01/09/2012 7:37:19 AM PST by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: Izzy Dunne

You are correct ... ~30,000 sq ft per person.

Plenty of room for growth. So, they have the land, they have the resources - and looks like they have chronic laziness.


22 posted on 01/09/2012 7:41:21 AM PST by Hodar ( Who needs laws; when this FEELS so right?)
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To: Hodar
“How did a land mass that is utterly incapable of supporting this population, become so densely populated?”

But your premise is flawed, so the question is flawed.

If your figures (population / land area) are correct (i didn't check them), then I figure there are 29,665 sq. feet, or about 2/3 of an acre for each man woman and child. Subtract uninhabitable land and that's maybe half an acre each.

Not a great luxury, but not the 5x6 foot plot you imagine.

23 posted on 01/09/2012 7:43:51 AM PST by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: Izzy Dunne; Hodar
.

.

I don't know what happened, I must have missed a decimal point or something....

24 posted on 01/09/2012 7:44:21 AM PST by Jeff Chandler (Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati)
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To: Hodar

“- and looks like they have chronic laziness.”

No.

The devil has the people by the throat.


25 posted on 01/09/2012 7:44:58 AM PST by Jim Noble ("The Germans: At your feet, or at your throat" - Winston Churchill)
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To: Hodar

The chief thing they lack is belief in themselves.


26 posted on 01/09/2012 7:45:38 AM PST by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: Liberty Valance
Is that a photo from the Democrat nation convention?

.

.

.

27 posted on 01/09/2012 7:46:28 AM PST by Jeff Chandler (Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati)
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To: Hodar

Well, no. You dropped a few decimal points somewhere. Three, I think.

296,654,054,400 sq. feet / 10,000,000 = 29,654 sq. ft. not 29.6 sq. ft.

Which is about 0.68 acre. Enough in theory to grow food to support a person.

Of course much of Haiti is extremely mountainous, and much of the rest has been eroded and its productive capacity largely destroyed.

The article makes IMO unjustified claims that Haiti through most of the 19th century was a tropical self-supporting Eden, until the evil USA came in and forced the people into cities.

At best Haiti during this period was a subsistence farming economy. While such is often idealized, you will note that damn few of the idealizers ever volunteer to actually live this life.


28 posted on 01/09/2012 7:48:01 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: C19fan

Laurent DuBois is smoking some potent Rastafarian dope if he thinks Haiti can be rich with its current population.

It is a failed state and a permanent, international welfare dependency.

To make it rich, the current residents would have to be shipped off to another part of the world and a new people, intelligent, enterprising, and self-reliant, imported.

At that point, it could indeed become not only rich but self-sustaining.


29 posted on 01/09/2012 7:48:40 AM PST by SharpRightTurn ( White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
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To: Hodar
Haiti consists of approximiately 10,641 sq. miles. Doing some quick math, 10,641 sq. miles = 296,654,054,400 sq. feet.

With a population of 10,000,000 this works out to 29.6 sq. ft for every man, woman and child. Yes, every person on the island has less than 30 sq. ft. This includes uninhabitable land as well, so the number is likely significantly less than 30 sq. ft.


I come up with 29,665 per person, or 0.681 acres per person. About 939 people per square mile, that is over ten times our population density.
30 posted on 01/09/2012 7:48:49 AM PST by fallujah-nuker (Pat Buchanan, kryptonite to RINO's)
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To: hampdenkid

Peculiar people: they don’t mind embracing satan (voodooism), but they just can’t stand we white folks for something the French and British did eons ago.

But they haven't hesitated to embrace the billions of US taxpayer dollars a succession of misguided US presidents have thrown away on Haitian aid of every sort imaginable.


31 posted on 01/09/2012 7:50:00 AM PST by Iron Munro ("Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight he'll just kill you." John Steinbeck)
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To: Bon mots

Haiti has no chance.
It will fall to African levels of poverty and stay there. African levels of disease, African levels of intelligence and African levels of violence.
________________

You nailed it.


32 posted on 01/09/2012 7:52:43 AM PST by patriot08 (TEXAS GAL- born and bred and proud of it!)
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To: Joe Boucher
Haiti is a lost cause.

There is hope for any country that turns from false gods to God Almighty.

If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves and pray and seek My face and change their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive them and heal their land.

God will transform and prosper any nation that turns to Him.

33 posted on 01/09/2012 8:00:22 AM PST by stars & stripes forever (Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord!)
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To: patriot08

It you compare Haiti to the African country where most of the Haiti’s ancestors came from in chains they have almost identical level of GDP per capita, and other developmental indicators.


34 posted on 01/09/2012 8:08:31 AM PST by C19fan
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To: fallujah-nuker
I come up with 29,665 per person, or 0.681 acres per person. About 939 people per square mile, that is over ten times our population density.

But there are about 40 other countries with a greater population density than Haiti.

For starters here are a few: Bermuda, Malta, Taiwan, Mauritius, Barbados, South Korea, Netherlands, Belgium, Israel, Japan, El Salvador, Guam, India.

Some of these countries have a density more than twice that of Haiti. Taiwan is just slightly larger in land mass but has a population density approaching 2,000 people per square mile.

Haiti's primary problem isn't its land mass, it is the Haitians and their culture.


35 posted on 01/09/2012 8:09:50 AM PST by Iron Munro ("Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight he'll just kill you." John Steinbeck)
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To: fallujah-nuker
.

Country Population Density GDP Per Capita
USA 87.4/sq mi $48,147
Japan 873.1/sq mi $45,774
Haiti 907.22/sq mi $673

.

36 posted on 01/09/2012 8:11:04 AM PST by Jeff Chandler (Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati)
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To: C19fan

Doesn’t help that they have deforested the land (mostly to make charcoal) and caused massive erosion. A plot of land isn’t worth much unless it has decent topsoil.


37 posted on 01/09/2012 8:11:40 AM PST by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: Hodar

“How did a land mass that is utterly incapable of supporting this population, become so densely populated?”

Lots and lots of sex.


38 posted on 01/09/2012 8:12:58 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Sherman Logan

Haiti was known as the “Pearl of the Antilles” when it was a colony. After independence it became what it is now, and it won’t change absent a complete worldview transformation. I wouldn’t hold my breath on that.

Haiti is just a big welfare camp. We can see what that sort of society produces.


39 posted on 01/09/2012 8:13:12 AM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: cuban leaf

And lots and lots of foreign aid.


40 posted on 01/09/2012 8:14:15 AM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: Iron Munro
Same island:

.

Country Population Density GDP Per Capita
Dominican Republic 501.5/sq mi $5,855
Haiti 907.22/sq mi $673

.

41 posted on 01/09/2012 8:14:25 AM PST by Jeff Chandler (Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati)
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To: Hodar

OK, the horse might be dead, but one more stroke ought to make sure...

According to CIA FACTBOOK, via WikiPedia, the pop. density of Haiti is over 900 people per square mile.

The pop. density of Singapore is over 18 THOUSAND per square mile, or 20x that of Haiti.

Crowding is not the source of the problem.


42 posted on 01/09/2012 8:14:41 AM PST by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: Bon mots

When the western world fails in the next year or two, it will be very bad for Haiti.

When you are living solely off your rich uncle, and your rich uncle goes bankrupt, well, you’re gonna need to change your already poor lifestyle.

Interestingly, in the long run the place could actually improve, but I doubt it will before the Lord returns.


43 posted on 01/09/2012 8:15:02 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Jeff Chandler

True, but I would adjust the DR numbers to factor out the money made by Major League Baseball players.


44 posted on 01/09/2012 8:15:59 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: Jeff Chandler
“Is that a photo from the Democrat nation convention?”

Not this year; maybe within 10 years. They will be making offerings to all kinds of pagan gods to keep an “inclusive nature”.
Baal will probably have a worship area somewhere.

45 posted on 01/09/2012 8:16:44 AM PST by HereInTheHeartland (I love how the FR spellchecker doesn't recognize the word "Obama")
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To: achilles2000

—And lots and lots of foreign aid.—

An analogy could be made with the example of a zoo. The animals there survive solely through food, medicine and maintenance supplied from outside. What would happen to the animals in a zoo if one day humans stopped showing up? It would be disease, starvation, death and mayhem.

Even worse than it already is. It would be “The Road Warior”, only with more dense forests.


46 posted on 01/09/2012 8:18:19 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: achilles2000

As a colony Haiti was perhaps the richest place on earth.

Not for the slaves, of course, for whom life was hell. The American South by comparison was Edenic for slaves.

I note numerous comments on this thread about how Haitians hate whitey. I’d like to point out that the French colonists fully earned that hatred.


47 posted on 01/09/2012 8:18:30 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: C19fan

Haiti is so eroded and deforested that as of today they can support 2 million tops, not 10 million like what they have today. You can grow fruit trees, nut and olive on denuded land....The Greeks proved this. Maybe the Haitians could become fruitarians (/sarc)


48 posted on 01/09/2012 8:19:50 AM PST by dennisw (A nation of sheep breeds a government of Democrat wolves!)
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To: Hodar

Singapore has 19x Haiti’s population density, and a per capita GDP that’s slightly higher (~$50K) than ours. In comparison to Singapore, Haiti is simultaneously under-developed and under-populated. I suspect Singaporeans would love to have Haiti’s relatively low population density.


49 posted on 01/09/2012 8:29:57 AM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Sherman Logan

Not all whites are French, and the Haitian colonial French have been gone for roughly 200 years.

Today’s Haitians are the sole authors of their misfortunes, just as America’s blacks have themselves to thank for their “problems”.


50 posted on 01/09/2012 8:31:27 AM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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