Are Cops Constitutional?

Seton Hall Law Journal ^ | 2001 | Roger Roots

[Mycroft Holmes]

Would you rather have a society with lawyers, but no cops. Or peace officers with no lawyers?

Well, with no cops I could just shoot the lawyers. Looks like your classic "win-win".

[djf]

I’ve read a fair amount about the 14th amendment. Most people do not understand it.

The 14th amendment was a radical departure from the original Constitution, here’s why.

After the emancipation of the slaves, the federal government realized it STILL HAD NO POWER to mandate to the states who should or should not be “CITIZENS” of those states.

The 14th amendment created a NEW type of citizenship that did not exist prior to it’s ratification, that being “A Citizen of The United States”, in other words a “federal” citizen, a citizen who is presumed to live in the District of Columbia, or at least some territory which is under Congresses sole legislative authority.

The reason for the 14th amendment being that at least for the freed slaves, they COULD NOT be deprived of their “privileges and immunities” by a state or lose them if they traveled from state to state.

But the Supreme Court has ruled most especially in a series of cases called the insular cases that the District of Columbia and the territories under the exclusive legislative authority of Congress ARE NOT parties to the Constitution and Constitutional restrictions and limitations had no bearing in these regions, save those which Congress chooses to legislate.

You hear about the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and you hear the term “incorporation”, well, THAT’S WHAT IT MEANS, the “incorporation” of one of the Bill of Rights means it is now in effect in DC and the territories.

[Talisker]

Note to All: “Cop” means “COrporate Police.”

That’s why they didn’t appear until the courts decided that municipalities could incorporate.

The founders didn’t anticipate this, because incorporation is literally a legally-accepted fiction to create “individuals” out of groups of people, and then transfer responsibility from those people to that legal fiction.

And then, through the 14th Amendment coup de grace, allow that legal fiction to be acknowledged not only as a Constitutional “person” - but the ONLY Constitutional person, so that the courts no longer acknowledge the existence of actual natural persons in litigation.

The Founders would have freaked over this.

And it doesn’t just effect Cops. Try, for example, to get “standing” for Obama’s birth certificate. Denied. But do you know why? Because actual, natural, real people don’t have standing in our solely corporate courts anymore.

And they don’t have to tell you either - because they use it in their “corporate” capacities and their corporate operating rules say they don’t have to tell you.

THAT is the big secret bureaucrats, attorneys, prosecutors and judges know that you don’t.

[djf]

Well I personally would say that I would trust police way more than lawyers.

But IMHO police SHOULD BE by nature peace officers and not function as revenue generating instruments for the town/city/state.

[vette6387]

Taken as a whole, it does not speak well for the police, and it is, from my experience, very truthful. If you don’t believe me, try making a citizens complaint on a cop as I did. You will have the wrath of law enforcement descend upon you in a way that will give the impression that you are living in the Soviet Union. At the end of the day, they were more concerned about what my valid complaint might do to “harm the officer’s record.” It didn’t matter that he broke the very law he was sworn to uphold.

[bvw]

Where did you get your CITIZEN status? This is a free nation of citizens, not an oligarchy where only state-certified of lawyers may speak to the law.

There was not even one Founder with a JD, and the first Supreme Court Justice with a JD was just before the Civil War (and to his credit he resigned over the Dred Scott decision).

[willamedwardwallace]

This is a nation of Free Citizens, not an oligarchy where only state-certified doctors may practice medicine.

This is a nation of Free Citizens, not an oligarchy where only state-certified architects may design buildings.

This is a nation of Free Citizens, not an oligarchy where only state-certified pharmacists may distribute controlled substances.

This is a nation of Free Citizens, not an oligarchy where only trained rocket scientists may plan missions to the moon.

Oh wait, free citizens are often uneducated and don’t understand the nuances of particular fields.

[Talisker]

The 14th amendment created a NEW type of citizenship that did not exist prior to it’s ratification, that being “A Citizen of The United States”, in other words a “federal” citizen, a citizen who is presumed to live in the District of Columbia, or at least some territory which is under Congresses sole legislative authority.

The word you're looking for is "of." As in City of..., County of..., State of.... "Of" is a legal term of art which means that the title included the header of "Federal." THAT is the REAL name of EVERYTHING around you.

So (fill in the blanks for your own area):

Federal City of...
Federal County of...
Federal State of...

And "Federal" means "Federally Incorporated." And THAT means 14th Amendment corporate administrative jurisdiction - passed down through federally authorized State incorporation, passed down through federally authorized County authorization, passed down through federally authorized City incorporation, passed down to your local librarian, who picks up a phone and tells the federally authorized local City corporate police department that you owe a dollar on an overdue book, and to go arrest you, and when they do - the Federally authrorized corporate country administrative judge says, yep - go get 'em. And they do.

But wait - you say that you are not a federal corporation, or working for a federal corporation as an "individual" subject to federal corporate jurisdiction? Sorry - you are presumed by the court to be such an individual, and the court is not authorized to hear rejections to that presumption, or tell you if there is any way for it to accept such a rejection.

So what's the way out? Hehehe... you think this system was created to let you have a way out?

The reason for the 14th amendment being that at least for the freed slaves, they COULD NOT be deprived of their “privileges and immunities” by a state or lose them if they traveled from state to state.

This is the common justification for the 14th, hailed by balcks and Leftists and wept over by liberals for 15o years - and it's a lie. By saying that the Bill of Rights didn't reach the States, a tiny little something is left out - the Bill of Rights ALWAYS reached the PEOPLE in the States - including Blacks or any other race. The 14th Amendment was never necessary to give them the Bill of Rights, and in fact DOESN'T - legally, the 14th Amendment turns the Bill of Rights into the Bill of Privileges, and considers ALL of those it effects as wards of the state - effectively MAKING them slaves. All the 14th Amendment did was say, hey, slavery shouldn't be a State thing - it should be a FEDERAL thing.

[djf]

Well, there are bad apples in every barrel. Bad people in all occupations. Nothing unique here.

But I believe that most, if not the majority of officers do take their jobs responsibly and act in a professional manner. Same as with military folks who have taken an oath to support and defend the Constitution.

[bvw]

What a sophomoric, intellectually infantile response!

I'll repeat: "There was not even one Founder with a JD, and the first Supreme Court Justice with a JD was just before the Civil War."

NONE of the men who wrote and who ratified the Constitution had a JD. Many were not lawyers at all.

[JimC214]

The United States Marshals Service (USMS) is a United States federal law enforcement agency within the United States Department of Justice (see 28 U.S.C. § 561). The office of U.S. Marshal is the oldest federal law enforcement office in the United States; it was created by the Judiciary Act of 1789. The Postal Inspection Service has the oldest origins of any federal law enforcement agency in the United States. It traces its roots back to 1772,[1] when colonial Postmaster General Benjamin Franklin first appointed a “surveyor” to regulate and audit the mails. Thus, the Service's origins—in part—predate the Declaration of Independence, and therefore the United States itself. As Franklin was Postmaster under the Continental Congress and was George Washington's first Postmaster, his system continued. Here are 2 that put that claim to rest.

[bvw]

Agree:

This is the common justification for the 14th, hailed by blacks and Leftists and wept over by liberals for 150 years - and it's a lie. By saying that the Bill of Rights didn't reach the States, a tiny little something is left out - the Bill of Rights ALWAYS reached the PEOPLE in the States - including Blacks or any other race. The 14th Amendment was never necessary to give them the Bill of Rights [cut here]

[vette6387]

“But I believe that most, if not the majority of officers do take their jobs responsibly and act in a professional manner. Same as with military folks who have taken an oath to support and defend the Constitution.”

I guess we live in two different worlds. If cops actually take any oath, it’s lip service! The article illuminates the truth that cops don’t bring down crime, they too often abuse the citizens with whom they come in contact, they have decided that in any situation to use force even if someone dies when it isn’t warranted, and then go into court and fabricate a story to cover their crime. Overall, just another bunch of union goons that society allows to carry guns. I used to be a personal acquaintance of one of our former Chiefs of Police ( I say used to because once I got to know him, I couldn’t stand to be in his presence). The stuff he laughingly told me that he had done coming up through the ranks would put either one of us in jail for a long time. God bless the Joe Arpaio’s, they are sadly few and far between.

[ml/nj]

As for an FBI or CIA? Well, I’ll leave that to the legal eagles—but if they were unconstitutional (except in some egghead’s mind...)

Did you ever wonder why the Federal Police Force is called the Federal Bureau of INVESTIGATION?

It's because when the agency was created, everyone knew that policing was not a Federal function. So it was sold as an agency that would assist local police with their investigations, and then only when there was evidence or reasonable suspicion that a perpetrator had left the local (i.e. State) jurisdiction.

In particular, I remember as a child (I lived about eight miles away from Westbury where the Weinbergers lived.) that the FBI was not allowed to enter the case of the Weinberger kidnapping for a full week. A week was apparently reasonable grounds for suspicion that a kidnapper had fled the jurisdiction.

As a result of the Weinberger kidnapping, President Eisenhower signed a law reducing the waiting period to one day. President Clinton reduced it to zero.

Sort of related ... here in the NYC Metro area an off duty ATF agent was killed in a shootout with a retired local Police Officer. I see the details as confused, or perhaps invented. The official story is that there was a robbery in a drug store which off duty ATF agent Capano "was at the pharmacy picking up medicine for himself and his father." Whatever.

Neither the ATF agent nor the retired cop had ANY law enforcement authority in this jurisdiction. Both were armed and apparently dangerous. Anti-gun zealots have been remarkably silent about all of this. I couldn't find any articles at all where Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy had anything to say about Capano or his killer. Senator Chuck the Schmuck Schumer, never the one to miss a photo-op, is calling for MORE SUCURITY FOR DRUGSTORES!

ML/NJ

[willamedwardwallace]

Ad Hominem.

[Wuli]

ping

[AnTiw1]

The solution is more police, not less. Give everybody a badge and tell every American to protect and serve. Then there’s no longer a protected class with special license to harass, and kill whether in good cause or bad. I, AnTiw1, promise to defend the constitution and honorably police myself. If I fail in this mission, I want two weeks paid vacation and a union appointed lawyer.

[bvw]

You don’t understand Latin, I gather.

[willamedwardwallace]

Id legi modo hic modo illic. Vero, Latine loqui non est difficilissimum.

[ansel12]

The law is different than your examples, we the citizens decide what our laws are, our problem is that it became the realm of law priests and ‘experts’, now they tell us what the laws are.

Now we nervously wait to hear what the ever changing laws and interpretations are that they want to impose on us, often, a judge just creates a new law on her own.