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Celani, Piantelli Geneva LENR Presentations
ECat News ^ | January 9, 2012 | Roy Viriglio

Posted on 01/09/2012 8:37:40 PM PST by Kevmo


Celani, Piantelli Geneva LENR Presentations
January 9, 2012
Francesco Celani is a colourful and respected character in the evolving LENR scene. An experienced nuclear physicist, it was he who tried to sneek a peek at the radiation spectra during the January 2011 eCat demo before Rossi stopped him. An offer to test the eCat in order to settle the mud surrounding it was refused by the inventor who pointed out that such a move would only benefit competitors .

Celani has not been idle and recently reported success working with Ni H reactions. It appears that his efforts do not lie on a single line as he explores the field in different directions. According to reports on 22passi, he will present an interesting result during the UN WSEC sustainable energy conference in Geneva (10-12 Jan). From 22passi and translated by Google:
In these weeks our group, working with long and thin wires having the surface coated with micro-nano-particles, get re-confirmation of a phenomenon, by us, seldom observed in some previous experiments: the specific alloy used (Cu-Ni), that usually has Positive Temperature Coefficient (PTC) of the resistance, if absorbs large amount of Hydrogen, changes to Negative TC. Such phenomenon is correlated to anomalous heat production and increases as the anomalous heat increases. If such key phenomenon will be kept under full control, because its behaviour can be observed with simple instrumentation, it can be open the door to systematic work, worldwide, to find the “optimal” material and operating point .

If this result is verified, it could prove a powerful analytical tool when trying to discover the process underlying LENR. If the effect ranges over a number of materials and dopant strengths, a researcher may be able to use the switch in resistance as a marker to electronically signal when excess heat is optimal and with what mix of materials .

Compare the situation with that in 1989. Thousands of scientists around the world groped blindly for an effect as elusive as the Yeti. Now researchers understand (to an extent) why the reaction was so elusive and are able to create it at will. This is just the start. If Celani’s result holds, it could form part of a growing arsenal that will be brought to bear on the problem. With luck, we are seeing early signs of what’s to come .

Many people are angry at scientists, forgetting that it is they who will eventually take the ragged toddler that is LENR and push him to maturity .

Roy Virgilio also reports that Piantelli, the scientist many think is hot on the heels of Rossi, will also present something new and worthy .

The following tease was also posted by Roy (he has been reliable in the past). Translated by Google:
WSEC 2012, cold fusion becomes mainstream science! And ‘with great pleasure that we point out an extremely important international event to be held at the UN in Geneva 10 to 12 January 2012 and promises to change that finally and definitively the future of so-called “Cold Fusion”. ‘s “International Sustainable Energy Organisation” (ISEO) UN organization, is preparing an international conference on sustainable energy that will be also emphasized on LENR studies and the results achieved in recent years. In fact it is un’ufficializzazione of this technology in front of politicians, organizations and companies around the world. Fortunately for us, and in recognition of the tremendous work carried out in recent years in our country, indeed the forefront of this sector, our speaker will be done by Francesco Celani INFN Frascati. I am attaching the final abstract of the speech Celan (which will have a plenary session of about 15 minutes worldwide and two hours in workgroups of scientists) and the agenda of the day (Celani and LERNA be found in Group III). Good read …. and that is the right time that the subject of cold fusion and funded as it should be reassessed to arrive in our homes as soon as possible. The world could change for the better. Roy
Exciting times .

[With thanks to Ivan Mohorovicic]










TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: cmns; coldfusion; ecat; lenr
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Unfortunately, if Rossi did the following:

1) hired a bunch of actors to pretend to be the customer reps,

2) created an elaborate year-long special-effects-derived series of demos,

3) bribed, hypnotised or otherwise fooled Focardi, Levi, Kullander, Essen, Bianchini, Stremmenos

4) arranged for Piantelli, Miley and a host of others to try to fool the world into thinking that cold fusion was real,

5) got NASA, SPAWAR, The Defense Threat Reduction Agency and The Defense Intelligence Agency to say nice things about the field,

6) got Bushnell to make a fool of himself,

7) and convinced his former partners to set up another company called Ampenergo to pretend that they had a contract for The Americas for a substantial sum ----- or that they just did this with no proof because they have worked with Rossi and trust him because he’s such a fine fellow,

8) sold his profitable company to his ex-partners in order to spend that wealth on a multi-million dollar scam; ----- certain that once he got all the above ducks in a row he would pretend to sell the first device ----- and then reel in the true target of his dastardly plan

9) and convinced a bunch of Greek crooks to set up a dummy company called Defkalion ----- to pretend to fight with him over the non-existent eCat, ----- to perpetuate the illusion and spin it off into a competing mirror-scam

[the second (this time genuine) buyer of a 1MW plant that will net him $2 million dollars ----- until they want their money back or sucker a $100 million dollar deal under the table ----- because he has experience in pulling the wool over all these idiotic eyes ----- and knows that they will just take his word for it ----- and not want to test if his 1MW plant can heat a small village without truckloads of coal or oil or a big fat electric cable coming into the container from beneath the floor (no you can’t lift the carpet!) ]

10) and that, in order to pull this off, Rossi had to risk discovery by interviewing all the people he subsequently fooled so that he could only invite the gullible Professors and not the brilliant anonymous posters on the Internet who surely would have found him out

then, yes, all bets are off and I’m with the guys who think that Rossi is an idiot and they are all geniuses.

1 posted on 01/09/2012 8:37:53 PM PST by Kevmo
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To: dangerdoc; citizen; Liberty1970; Red Badger; Wonder Warthog; PA Engineer; glock rocks; free_life; ..

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2 posted on 01/09/2012 8:39:15 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo

Millions of the cold fusion water heaters are set to roll the assembly lines this year so how they work doesn’t really matter anymore, it’s full (low pressure)steam ahead and hot water to all!

But then again, not likely.


3 posted on 01/09/2012 10:05:05 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Kevmo
Interesting Celani comment about Rossi and Defkalion, posted HERE:
As far as recent claims of very large excess power using “micro-nano-sized Nickel” interacting with H2 at high pressure and temperatures are concerned, coming from groups operating in Italy and Greece, we have to underline that both groups refused (because, according to them, patents/business constrains), up to now, independent tests of their apparatus: then, we cannot give scientific credit, as to-day, to their work. BTW, on November 2011, F. Celani asked to the Italian A. Rossi, through a widespread science magazine (Focus), to validate one of his 10kW's device. Even the public “persuasion” of the Nobel Laureate Brian Josephson was not enough to get such device for scientific, fully independent, tests.
Based on this, Celani is distancing himself from Rossi and Defkalion. Pretty odd position to take, if he believed Rossi's grandiose claims.
4 posted on 01/10/2012 3:54:28 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Kevmo

Reasons to doubt Rossi

And, the biggest reason to doubt Rossi:

5 posted on 01/10/2012 3:57:04 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Kevmo
Kevmo, notice that my list keeps getting longer, and I haven't had to remove anything from the list. That's not what should be happening if Rossi were legit.

Since you're such a Rossi fanboy (which is obvious from your repeating comment with each of your posts), maybe you can provide me to a link to the Isotope analysis that Kullander promised by Christmas. (LINK)

Since this would be the first actual piece of evidence (as opposed to dog & pony shows that prove nothing), it would go a long way towards either proving or disproving Rossi's claims.

Why haven't they released it, even though they promised to do so?

6 posted on 01/10/2012 4:12:14 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Kevmo
Speaking of non-Rossi Cold Fusion, How is Aussie Guy doing? (LINK)

Funny how noisy he was when he was promising to "prove" Cold Fusion (using little 1-Watt gadgets, because Rossi wouldn't sell him an E-Cat), and how silent he is now that he is in a position to actually prove/disprove Cold Fusion.

Just what I've come to expect from the typical Cold Fusion enthusiast.

7 posted on 01/10/2012 4:25:15 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.
"Based on this, Celani is distancing himself from Rossi and Defkalion. Pretty odd position to take, if he believed Rossi's grandiose claims."

Only in your imagination. This is no different from what he (and Levi, and Kullander, and Essen, and even me) has said all along. Scientific validation requires independent replication by second and third parties.

Not that that matters to the psycho-skeptic crowd, of course. To them, NO proof will ever be acceptable. No matter how many times the effect is replicated, they will refuse to believe it, and either call it fraud or incompetence. Kinda like you and a few others on these threads.

8 posted on 01/10/2012 5:17:00 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Johnny B.
Oh, put a cork in it. Your constant repetition is tiring.

"Kevmo, notice that my list keeps getting longer, and I haven't had to remove anything from the list. That's not what should be happening if Rossi were legit."

Linking to the same information at multiple different sites doesn't constitute increasing proof.

9 posted on 01/10/2012 5:19:52 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog
Linking to the same information at multiple different sites doesn't constitute increasing proof.
I only post my list in response to Kevmo's tiresome, constant repetition of his "Unfortunately, if Rossi did..." screed.

If you want me to stop, get Kevmo to stop posting his sad, desperate defense of Rossi's fraud.

10 posted on 01/10/2012 5:33:08 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Wonder Warthog
Oh, put a cork in it. Your constant repetition is tiring.

That's pretty rich. You, a cold fusion sycophant, who keeps posting these retarded articles from mystery websites for fringies, deriding someone for repetition?
11 posted on 01/10/2012 5:34:02 AM PST by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: Wonder Warthog
To them, NO proof will ever be acceptable.
Well, since Rossi has provided NO proof, then they should believe Rossi.
12 posted on 01/10/2012 5:34:21 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Wonder Warthog
Not that that matters to the psycho-skeptic crowd, of course. To them, NO proof will ever be acceptable. No matter how many times the effect is replicated, they will refuse to believe it, and either call it fraud or incompetence. Kinda like you and a few others on these threads.
Since Celani has, both in your earlier post and in this slideshow, excluded Rossi and Defkalion from his presentation of evidence of Cold Fusion, I guess that makes Celani part of the "psycho-skeptic crowd".
13 posted on 01/10/2012 5:37:11 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Wonder Warthog
By the way, where is Kullander's analysis of the "fuel" and "ash" from Rossi's gadget? It was supposed to be available by Christmas, and would have gone a long way toward proving or disproving Rossi's claims. (LINK)

I'm sure that, if it vindicated Rossi, it would be plastered all over the hundreds of Rossi fanboy web sites.

The silence is deafening.

14 posted on 01/10/2012 5:41:04 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: All

15 posted on 01/10/2012 6:13:25 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.
Photobucket

Home Depot? LOL! They will sell at least two, to you know who.
16 posted on 01/10/2012 6:25:21 AM PST by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: Kevmo
In these weeks our group, working with long and thin wires having the surface coated with micro-nano-particles, get re-confirmation of a phenomenon, by us, seldom observed in some previous experiments: the specific alloy used (Cu-Ni), that usually has Positive Temperature Coefficient (PTC) of the resistance, if absorbs large amount of Hydrogen, changes to Negative TC. Such phenomenon is correlated to anomalous heat production and increases as the anomalous heat increases.

In all the reading I've been doing on this lately, I remember a researcher was having promising results using this method but abandoned it because he couldn't get funding to continue his research because a department head didn't think it was worth pursuing.

I can't say for sure that it was Celani though. I understand the fight for funding and I also understand that maybe they didn't want to have the term CF associated with their institution but they should have had a neutral (yeah right, as long as the observer wasn't fighting for the same pool of funding) observer with the same type of knowledge base review his work before he had to pull the plug although after what happened to Taleyarkhan I can see them being cautious but throwing away a lead like that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

What happened to Aussie Guy? He had two of the P&F type cells supposedly working (1 watt ea.). He had received them from Japan so that's at least three different types of LENR technology. Something is happening but what?

It seems we're all in a holding pattern on Rossi. It sure would be nice if he would put all these questions to bed.

17 posted on 01/10/2012 7:58:09 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Lx
What happened to Aussie Guy? He had two of the P&F type cells supposedly working (1 watt ea.). He had received them from Japan so that's at least three different types of LENR technology. Something is happening but what?
Kevmo's posting was wrong about Aussie Guy having "working" PFE cells. He claimed that he had arranged the loan of some cells, and that the supplier was going to work with a local University to get them working.

Although Aussie Guy is still posting regularly on the Vortex mailing list, he has been totally silent about his PFE cells lately.

You can draw your own conclusions about why he has stopped talking about it.

18 posted on 01/10/2012 8:03:52 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Lx
What happened to Aussie Guy?
FYI, HERE is the original post about acquiring his 1-Watt PFE cells. HERE is the follow up post about working with a local University, with a comment that he would go public when they made the cells operational.
19 posted on 01/10/2012 8:10:00 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.; Wonder Warthog
I followed a bunch of links WW had and besides showing the horrible treatment (and promising work) of Taleyarkhan, it also had something on this 'exploding wire' technique and they were seeing something. Now I can't find it.

WW, do you remember if these were the guys?

I've read more on LENR in the last week than I have all last year. From what I've read, it appears science is playing catch up on this and the ones that can't explain it just brush it off but brush off or whatever, they still can't explain it.

Removing Rossi from the equation and looking at the research is a much better method since we've all seen what Rossi is and has.

Talk about timing, being a physics grad student at this time, that would be awesome.

This is the link WW gave me. It is worth the read while we wait for Rossi.

20 posted on 01/10/2012 8:12:31 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Johnny B.
Neither of those links are the one I remember reading. The one I read said he had obtained the cells from Japan and that they were working. Maybe I misread it in all the reading I've been doing but I thought he said they had them working. Even at 1 watt, if they get more out than they put in, something is happening.

When I get home tonight, I'll try to find the link.

There is one thing I'm positive on, I need new glasses...

Another thing I do know, avoid anything by Sterling Allen, he might get something right sometime but has zero credibility. When people say that God told them to do something, Run!

21 posted on 01/10/2012 8:20:03 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Lx
It is worth the read while we wait for Rossi.
I suspect someone could read an entire library while waiting for Rossi.

BTW, is waiting for Rossi anything like Waiting for Godot?

22 posted on 01/10/2012 8:20:14 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.
BTW, is waiting for Rossi anything like Waiting for Godot?

Wow, talk about the past, I haven't heard that name in over twenty years, too funny.

23 posted on 01/10/2012 8:22:14 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Lx
Neither of those links are the one I remember reading.
I guess Aussie Guy started talking about this earlier than the message I referenced (I grabbed the first message with that particular Subject).

He claimed that the owner of the devices showed it in operation and that he was satisfied that it worked. He has not posted anything to indicate that he had done any independent testing that showed excess power.

It has only been a couple of weeks since then, so I'm going to hold off on any conclusions about it.

But, this raises an interesting question. Aussie Guy claims to have invested over $100,000 in reverse-engineering and building these 1-Watt devices. He seems to think he can turn a profit by selling these to people interested in "playing around" with them, and he wants to prove that Cold Fusion is "real".

But, Rossi claims to be selling Megawatt devices today. Why in the world would Aussie Guy invest so much money in something that is already totally obsolete (if you believe Rossi)?

And, of course, we don't really know anything about Aussie Guy. He could be a 13-year-old kid living in his parent's basement. I don't think this is the case, but it's foolish to believe anything just because some anonymous person posted something about it on an Internet forum.

24 posted on 01/10/2012 9:26:30 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.
From E-Cat News:

“Andrea Rossi E-Cat To Power Home Heating And Cooling System
by admin on January 9, 2012 (partial quote)

Once Andrea Rossi E-Cat will be available in the market, three major causes of deaths – hypothermia, heat stroke and heart attack – can be minimized, if not totally eliminated. The estimated initial investment for a Rossi’s E-Cat will be between $1,000 and $1,500. The price is reasonable considering you will have a lifetime of freedom from increasing price of electricity.”

Is there anything these imaginary devices won't do?

25 posted on 01/10/2012 10:28:30 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Johnny B.
But, this raises an interesting question. Aussie Guy claims to have invested over $100,000 in reverse-engineering and building these 1-Watt devices. He seems to think he can turn a profit by selling these to people interested in "playing around" with them, and he wants to prove that Cold Fusion is "real".

I don't remember reading that but I'll take your word on it and yes, it doesn't make sense to spend that kind of money when Rossi's device is much cheaper. That is providing it works...

And, of course, we don't really know anything about Aussie Guy. He could be a 13-year-old kid living in his parent's basement. I don't think this is the case, but it's foolish to believe anything just because some anonymous person posted something about it on an Internet forum

Absolutely agree. The funny thing is there are people who shall remain nameless that think we are the same person.

The thing is, there are numerous universities and research labs pursuing LENR and Rossi seems to be the comic relief and Aussie guy, WTH? I thought I had read that he bought two cells from Japan that already worked. Why go to Aussie guy instead of just going around him? That or wait for Rossi. The worse thing about Rossi is what he will do to LENR research and funding if it's found out to be a scam. The thing is, I can't see what the scam is and they are usually easy to spot.

We could go with a conspiracy theory that Rossi is funded by big oil to discredit LENR research. That's a joke for those sarcasm impaired folk.

I will take at face value the work that universities are putting out in this field. The problem is that they see something, there's no way everyone is deluded, and it seems that science needs to catch up to explain this phenomena. They publish peer reviewed work that would get torn apart if it didn't have solid results to support their paper.

Blacklight Power is an excellent example. They have PhD's working on the same thing, calling it hydrinos and spending millions. It seems that they get over unity for a while and then it settles back to a normal chemical reaction and I think that is why BLP, although they announced deals with power companies well over a year ago, they still don't have their power plant running their process.

26 posted on 01/10/2012 10:28:40 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: count-your-change
Once Andrea Rossi E-Cat will be available in the market, three major causes of deaths – hypothermia, heat stroke and heart attack – can be minimized, if not totally eliminated. The estimated initial investment for a Rossi’s E-Cat will be between $1,000 and $1,500. The price is reasonable considering you will have a lifetime of freedom from increasing price of electricity.”

If true, that is an incredible price. I'm looking at pellet stoves and they go for over $2k. In fact, that price is too good to be true once you factor in the costs:

1) Initial research.
2) Designing a production device.
3) Ensuring the device passes the regulation hurdle and it's a big one.
4) Warranty.
5) Installation although that price might be without installation.
6) Controller.
7) Refilling reactants every six months.
8) Numerous other things that I can't think of at the moment. He will also need the raw materials like nickel and whatever the production device's case is made of pluss whatever the catalyst is.

If it is true, he could charge $10k and sell every one of them. I find it hard to believe that anyone is that altruistic.

27 posted on 01/10/2012 10:38:03 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Lx

Since all that altruism is on paper he can afford it. Of course not one has been produced or demonstrated so for a nonexistent device, it really is an incredible price.


28 posted on 01/10/2012 11:50:24 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Lx
I don't remember reading that but I'll take your word on it and yes, it doesn't make sense to spend that kind of money when Rossi's device is much cheaper. That is providing it works...
HERE is the post where he claimed to have spent $100K.

He did make the claim that he had working FPE cells, but he was apparently basing that on demonstrations he saw. He also stated that he was expecting a local University to do independent testing, but he hasn't said anything about that happening yet.

The thing is, I can't see what the scam is and they are usually easy to spot.

Blacklight Power is an excellent example.

Funny you should mention Blacklight Power. They have been collecting investor's money, tens-of-millions of it, for a couple of decades, without ever selling a working device. Although they claimed to have customers, non of the customers have acknowledged any such thing (sound familiar?).

I think Blacklight Power is a successful investor scam (or possibly a money-laundering scheme), and that Rossi is attempting to set up a similar operation. And, I expect Rossi, just like Blacklight, to never actually show a working device or a real customer.

Such an operation can go for years, or even decades, without being "busted" if they are careful to pick gullible investors.

29 posted on 01/10/2012 11:55:57 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Lx
Steorn is another example of a decade-long scam that has collected tens-of-millions in investment money without ever producing a credible demonstration, let alone a working device.
30 posted on 01/10/2012 12:06:16 PM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.
That's a good link. This might be the post that made me think he has them working and from Japan:

The 2 cells were obtained from an Asian source. They are on loan for 3 months. The source will work remotely with our local uni to get them operational. They output greater than 1 watt with a COP greater than 5. We are funding the work at the local uni. The uni can publish the results from the cells we make locally. The source has received an up front payment. They will receive further funding as the cells are proven to work by the local uni and further funding when our replicant cells become operational.

We plan to make our replicant cells available to other FPE researchers. These cells are not capable of delivering a E-Cat or Hyperion level of performance. They are designed to prove F&P were correct, the FPE is real, to silence the FPE deniers and drive scientific investigation of the FPE. Our desire is simple. To accelerate the acceptance of the FPE, to get the effect properly understood and to see FPE devices powering our planet. OK, along the way to make a few dollars as well.

OK, why do I not believe that he has already invested $100k? If Rossi is real and the prices quoted are real, what is Aussie Guy's business plan, to lose money? He says he'll make them available to researchers and make a few dollars along the way. He's already said he was trying to buy from Rossi so he must think Rossi is for real so why spend $100k because if Rossi's devices are real along with those prices, Aussie guy just blew $100k.

What does FPE stand for? Is it P&F's names? Does that mean these are electrolysis cells using deuterium and palladium which have proven to be very finicky.

This makes no sense. Having 1 watt cells is great for proving LENR is real and research but why buy one if you already know it works, just copy these?

Researchers seem well capable of creating these cells from scratch if they have the complete specs since that was the problem with the original finicky P&F device, plus research labs and universities aren't exactly overflowing with money so where does he think he's going to make a profit? Sell these cells to allow labs to scale them up to a production device, makes no sense. Now, if he bought these cells to scale up and get his profit off of production cells then it makes sense but I'm not reading that from his posts.

Is he going to give these cells to the local university and providing funding? That's what he says but what is his motive and why would the original source of the cells want to work with his local university? He says he basically wants to shut up the nay sayers and drive research, so for one last time, what is his business plan and who provided the $100k?

As for BLP, I don't see how Mills is fooling everyone who works for him or at Rowan university. Is it confirmation bias on a large scale. I thought they has signed at least two deals with power companies, those were B.S? His press releases says at least six power companies have signed on.

BLP Press Releases.

31 posted on 01/10/2012 12:54:35 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Johnny B.
Awesome, I love Steorn. They were supposed to have one of their devices at some museum of technology and when it came time to reveal it, they said that the "greenhouse effect" in the plexiglass box had fried the devices bearings. If you're gonna B.S. people, might as well think way outside the box.

I'm waiting for a Joseph Newman type to claim their device worked but it was 'smited' by God.

32 posted on 01/10/2012 1:00:45 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Lx
What does FPE stand for?
"Fleischmann-Pons Effect". Sorry for not identifying that. I've seen it used before and thought it was universally known.
I thought they has signed at least two deals with power companies, those were B.S? His press releases says at least six power companies have signed on.
It's my understanding that none of the "customers" claimed by Blacklight have confirmed any sort of relationship with Blacklight.

That's one of the problems with this sort of thing: It's easy and relatively safe to claim relationships with organizations and companies that are not true.

Rossi did this with the University of Bologna (and got caught when the U of B issued a press release denying any relationship), and Rossi's associates have done this with several other groups including NASA, SPAWAR and National Instruments (where Rossi's partners tried to make a routine sales agreement into some sort of partnership).

It's very rare for a legitimate company to respond to phony claims of an association with a scam artist. For example, TILLEY claimed to have an offer from G.E. for two billion dollars for his invention.

33 posted on 01/10/2012 1:24:28 PM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Lx
Notice, by the way, that Sterling D. Allan was a big supporter of Tilley, before he became a big supporter of Rossi.

LINK

34 posted on 01/10/2012 1:38:28 PM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.
It's very rare for a legitimate company to respond to phony claims of an association with a scam artist. For example, TILLEY claimed to have an offer from G.E. for two billion dollars for his invention.

I've seen the video of him saying this and the people didn't seem too impressed. What kind of moron would turn down a $2Billion dollar offer? GE supposedly did the offer, site unseen.

Funny how one of Tilley's helpers found an extension cord charging the batteries on I think it was the shop that was supposedly powered by Tilley's device.

His TEV DeLorean failed after a few laps because of a rear wheel bearing. Too bad for Tilley there were people with DeLoreans that offered parts and help to fix his car but he declined. I wonder why?

This is the thing about Rossi. It's easy to spot these scams and see what they are but what is his end game?

Joseph Newman even got Congress to intervene on his patent and when it was tested like he wanted, no over unity detected. So of course, the test was flawed...

In Joseph Newman's videos you hear him saying that we should get behind his technology. What does that mean? Give him even more money? He has spent millions. Have you heard of the Norm Biss story?

It's good reading on how his scam worked:

Norm Biss Story.

35 posted on 01/10/2012 1:42:59 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Johnny B.
Sterling Allan believes everything up to and including having God tell him to run for President in 2004. I wouldn't believe a word coming from him.

His website: Sterling Allan.

36 posted on 01/10/2012 1:46:47 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Lx
This is the thing about Rossi. It's easy to spot these scams and see what they are but what is his end game?
After hearing about Rossi and his E-Cat, I started investigating various "long con" swindles ("long con" is the term for a complex and long-running con, such as the fake stock market exchange run in Denver in the early part of the 20th Century).

Amazingly, none of them had an "end game". It's as if the type of person who can conceive of and execute such a scam can't imagine that he will ever be found out. So, lack of an obvious "end game" is no reason to conclude that it's not a scam.

Besides, as many of these scammers have shown, it's possible to find gullible investors to give you millions of dollars for years, even decades, without getting so disgusted that they go to the police. A well-established part of such scams is the "blow off", which is where the con artist gets rid of the investor without allowing the him to realize that he's been conned.

I'm absolutely positive that many of these investors go from one scam to another, never admitting that they've been conned. It's always "bad luck" that caused them to lose their investment.

I suspect that Sterling Allan's part in Rossi's scheme is to provide a list of gullible investors. Allan has certainly had plenty of opportunity to find them, from all the previous scams he participated in.

37 posted on 01/10/2012 2:13:28 PM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.
After hearing about Rossi and his E-Cat, I started investigating various "long con" swindles ("long con" is the term for a complex and long-running con, such as the fake stock market exchange run in Denver in the early part of the 20th Century).

Amazingly, none of them had an "end game". It's as if the type of person who can conceive of and execute such a scam can't imagine that he will ever be found out. So, lack of an obvious "end game" is no reason to conclude that it's not a scam.

That makes a lot of sense, kind of like The Sting. Which reminds me that I though about Rossi getting his plans from movie plots...

If the company that bought the 1MW plant is a shill and the 10,000 pre-orders is real, he might use that to attract investors who think that it's all in the up and up, they've seen successful LENR replications and being greedy, they want in first. Of course, then Rossi acts like he doesn't want their money and mentions that the technology isn't mature, that makes investors want even more to invest. Rossi names some outrageous terms, they counter and Rossi gets what he wants. It might not even be illegal unless they can prove that the 1mw test was either faked, or controlled by a shill or both.

You're also correct that investors don't want to admit they were conned, also, Rossi does have his E-cats so he has something to show and experienced scientists believe him as well.

It would be much better if Rossi is real but eccentric and his E-cats do work, waiting for proof. If it is real, what will OPEC do? This is direct competition against their virtual monopoly. If the E-cat is real and we can use it to replace home heaters, heating plants in buildings, water heaters, pre-heat steam for existing power plants and who knows what and only need petroleum for automobiles and chemicals, then the next twenty years will be interesting unless OPEC buys him out or does something worse although Rossi isn't the only game in town in the long run.

As for Sterling Allan, he's probably not even involved as he is a true believer although the weird part is I haven't seen him reporting on successful LENR experiments but he does go for every wishy-washy thing there is; Tilley, seriously, he bought that? Did he ever do anything about running for President in 2004?

38 posted on 01/10/2012 3:38:21 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Johnny B.
"I only post my list in response to Kevmo's tiresome, constant repetition of his "Unfortunately, if Rossi did..." screed. If you want me to stop, get Kevmo to stop posting his sad, desperate defense of Rossi's fraud."

The difference is that Kevmo's is HUMOR. Yours is just repetitive drivel.

39 posted on 01/10/2012 4:26:20 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: ZX12R
"That's pretty rich. You, a cold fusion sycophant, who keeps posting these retarded articles from mystery websites for fringies, deriding someone for repetition?"

I doubt you will find anywhere that I have repeated the exact same comments more than twice. As to posting stuff from "fringie" sites....right now they are the only people reporting on the topic. However, I suggest you look at my latest actual article post. You might learn something.

40 posted on 01/10/2012 4:28:44 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Johnny B.
"Since Celani has, both in your earlier post and in this slideshow, excluded Rossi and Defkalion from his presentation of evidence of Cold Fusion, I guess that makes Celani part of the "psycho-skeptic crowd"."

Celani is addressing the SCIENTIFIC proof for CF, to a group of scientists. OF COURSE he is not going to include Rossi or Defkalion, as they have not provided proof to the necessary scientific standard of information. Celani most definitely believes that CF is real, and that Rossi has accomplished something.

This differs from the psycho-skeptics (like you) in that to them EVERY SINGLE DATUM absolutely MUST be interpreted as another "it's a scam" item. Perhaps you should also check into Rossi's grade school and high school time. Maybe his awards for track are fake. Sorry, but that approach isn't scientific, and in fact isn't even sane.

41 posted on 01/10/2012 4:35:01 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Johnny B.
"By the way, where is Kullander's analysis of the "fuel" and "ash" from Rossi's gadget? It was supposed to be available by Christmas, and would have gone a long way toward proving or disproving Rossi's claims."

Good question. Since you're such an intrepid investigator, why don't "you" ask him.

"I'm sure that, if it vindicated Rossi, it would be plastered all over the hundreds of Rossi fanboy web sites.

I'm sure that ONCE IT IS RELEASED, it will show up on most or all of the CF reporting sites, no matter what it shows.

42 posted on 01/10/2012 4:38:12 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Lx
"What happened to Aussie Guy? He had two of the P&F type cells supposedly working (1 watt ea.). He had received them from Japan so that's at least three different types of LENR technology. Something is happening but what?

P&F type electrolysis cells have to be run for many days before there is sufficient loading of D2 for the reaction to initiate. All Aussie-guy has is two new cells. He is a long way from being ready to generate data.

43 posted on 01/10/2012 4:40:44 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Lx
"I've read more on LENR in the last week than I have all last year. From what I've read, it appears science is playing catch up on this and the ones that can't explain it just brush it off but brush off or whatever, they still can't explain it.

Well, they're trying like hell to brush it off. "This time" I don't think they will be able to. There are too many replications coming from too many reputable researchers/organizations for that to happen.

"Removing Rossi from the equation and looking at the research is a much better method since we've all seen what Rossi is and has."

LENR-CANR.org is still the best single repository of CF science. It is a bit overwhelming since there is SO MUCH stuff there. I'm just working through the proceedings if ICCF (International Conference on Cold Fusion) 15, which have just been posted. I'm barely into it, and there is a ton of good info.

The "Foreword" by McKubre summarizing the work at SRI and in collaboration with other CF labs is revealing as to how fiendishly difficult getting control of electrolysis-cell based CF cells actually is.

"Talk about timing, being a physics grad student at this time, that would be awesome."

"If" a young physics grad student were to go to his thesis/dissertation physics professor advisor and opined that he wanted to work on CF, he would be quietly taken to one side and told in whispers "You don't want to go there, if you do, your career will be stifled before it starts".

It would take quite a strong and self-confident student to buck that.

44 posted on 01/10/2012 4:52:33 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog
The difference is that Kevmo's is HUMOR. Yours is just repetitive drivel.
Humor is a matter of opinion, but nothing is funny when it gets repeated ad nauseam, as Kevmo does.

And, I'm not posting my message for you or Kevmo. It's for people first encountering the Rossi story, who deserve to get the full story, not just the breathless, glowing fiction being spread by the fanboys.

Feel free to ignore my posts.

45 posted on 01/10/2012 5:12:19 PM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Lx
As for Sterling Allan, he's probably not even involved as he is a true believer
He may be a "true believer", but he is responsible for pesn.com and peswiki.com, which has been the primary source of lies, half-truths and innuendo for Rossi for the last year.

Allan also created the first version of Rossi's "commercial" web site, ecat.com.

I count Allan's involvement and support of Rossi's operation as one of the better reasons to conclude that it's a scam.

46 posted on 01/10/2012 5:20:52 PM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Wonder Warthog
OF COURSE he is not going to include Rossi or Defkalion, as they have not provided proof to the necessary scientific standard of information.
And yet, the fanboys are absolutely positive that Rossi (and Defkalion) are legitimate, even though, as you admit, they have not provided proof.

Celani's recent comments seem to be hedging on Rossi and Defkalion. Maybe Celani knows something we don't?

I'll bet you believe that magicians really do saw their assistants in half.

47 posted on 01/10/2012 5:27:02 PM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Wonder Warthog
P&F type electrolysis cells have to be run for many days before there is sufficient loading of D2 for the reaction to initiate. All Aussie-guy has is two new cells. He is a long way from being ready to generate data.
Please explain why "Aussie Guy" would be investing $100,000 to produce 1-Watt demonstration cells, when Rossi is allegedly already selling 1-Megawatt devices?
48 posted on 01/10/2012 5:31:00 PM PST by Johnny B.
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49 posted on 01/10/2012 5:33:45 PM PST by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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To: Wonder Warthog
Good question. Since you're such an intrepid investigator, why don't "you" ask him.
I may have to, since none of the fanboys have bothered to do so.

That's one of the biggest reasons a reasonable person would doubt the fanboy collective. The fanboys spread each new unsubstantiated claim as though it's hard news, but then they totally forget about them when the claims turn out to be false.

Another example is the customer Rossi claimed would step forward. We're still waiting.

50 posted on 01/10/2012 5:44:09 PM PST by Johnny B.
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