Skip to comments.Selling out capitalism in the defense of Romney and Bain
Posted on 01/10/2012 1:36:20 PM PST by Utmost Certainty
We dont know all of the details of how Bain conducted its business under Mitt Romney, but we do know that in at least several instances the conduct was to squeeze out cash while leaving behind a failed company. In many other instances Bain helped companies to grow.
In a capitalist system, that process of weeding out weaker companies and reallocating resources may serve a greater good, much as natural selection helps to make the population stronger. In a political candidate running for the presidency in the general election, however, it is potentially fatal.
In response to this entirely legitimate point being raised that a predatory history of investing may not be what we want in the nominee for the presidency, we have a chorus of voices asserting that Newt is attacking capitalism. Some of those voices long have hated and vented venom at Newt, others are less ideological and have reacted as if the entire capitalist system were under attack.
Its sad to see so many in the Republican Party so incapable of distinguishing between economic and political arguments.
(Excerpt) Read more at legalinsurrection.com ...
All this Horse Shiite is completely stoopid and assures Mitt will be the nominee.
Attack this turd for his policy positions.
Bain, Romney and others did everyone a favor by identifying winners and losers.
I guarantee you the people who lost their jobs would have ultimately well, lost their jobs.
The companies that survived did so because of their value proposition, attention to the bottom line and always looking for opportunities to increase production, revenue and profit.
Why anyone can’t figure out business is a math problem is beyond me.
Too many months on the wrong side of the ledger and you just aren’t a going concern.
Get a life.
All this bitterness is going hold you back.
I think it’s contemptible that we have a group of people on this site along with a ton of pundits, most important among them Charles Krauthammer and NRO editors who can’t grasp the basic truth in this article.
Is the Romney camp, including the hopelessly ignorant Ann Couter, so naive to think that the Obama camp would not be on him like a bad smell if he were to get the nomination? Let’s vette him now.
On the one hand if under scrutiny Romney ends up looking better to everyone, Newt is doing Romney a favor, on the other hand I fear that in doing this Newt may be cutting his own legs off.
I suspect that we will see what the article here says, that Romney, like Gordon Gecko, went in for the expressed purpose, NOT TO MAKE JOBS AS HE SAYS HE DID, but as a predator to pilfer those companies that were ripe for the picking. Perfectly legal, but is that the guy who is best poised to beat Obama?
I think not.
I don’t like what Newt has said, but so be it. It was MITTENS who CHOSE to make his work at Bain the centerpiece of his resume, along with outlandish claims of “created” jobs. So it deserves to be taken apart, good and bad.
He was talking about empowering people with choices and yes, firing service providers is a market response to alternative choices or flat out crummy service.
What is Romney’s position on abortion? What has it been in the past? What is his record?
What is Romney’s position on Gun Rights? What has it been in the past? What is his record?
What is Romney’s position on taxes? What has it been in the past? What is his record”?
What is Romney’s position on the size of government? What has it been in the past? What is his record?
What is Romney’s position on the Bill of Rights? What has it been in the past? What is his record?
How does Romney propose to put America back to work? What has it been in the past? What is his record?
What is Romney’s position on the right of privacy? What has it been in the past? What is his record?
How does Romney rate in regards to keeping his word? What has it been in the past? What is his record?
Just WTF is Romney’s position?
What is Newt’s position?
Compare/Contrast/Demonstrate superior value proposition.
I don’t think it is selling out capitalism to examine Willard’s record.
Asset stripping is an ugly part of capitalism and shouldn’t be glossed over.
Nor will it be in a general election. Let’s drag it out in to the light of
day and take a look.
“At its peak in 1970, the Kansas City plant, then owned by Armco Steel Corp, employed 4,500 people. Poor market conditions forced a wave of layoffs in the early 1980s and led the company to prune its product line. By the early 1990s, the plant focused on two items: wire for products such as mattress springs and tires; and high-carbon balls and rods used by the mining industry to pulverize rocks.”
From this comment: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2829920/posts?page=33#33
So a dying company ended up dying? How much of that death was due to the economic & regulatory policies the Obama Regime supports?
That’s the issue! Newt is clearly the superior alternative but he is in fact cutting his own legs off.
Moreover, he is pushing the focus to some weird and maybe not even nonsequitor.
Whose name is coming up in all this? Mutt, effing, Romney.
This guy outta send thank you cards to his competitors for elevating him as the front runner.
Circular firing squad from that gang that all of a sudden can’t shoot straight.
This goes on much longer and I’m done. I’ll tune out the election because it will be ‘08 all over again.
Mitt choose to run on his vaunted “private sector experience”, so it’s worth gutting it to see exactly what kind of private sector ‘experience’ it really was.
If you can’t understand the basic premise here that Romney’s record is going to be a completely and utterly DISASTROUS liability in the general election, then I don’t know what to tell you.
Mitt choose to run on his vaunted “private sector experience”, so it’s worth gutting it to see exactly what kind of private sector ‘experience’ it really was.
If you can’t understand the basic premise here that Romney’s Bain Capital record is going to be a completely and utterly DISASTROUS liability in the general election, then I don’t know what to tell you.
Good article. This is important to explore now and see if Romney can explain it satisfactorily. If he can’t explain it well enough to win the primaries, he sure won’t be able to sell it in the general election.
It won't be horrible times nor will it be good times, but likely will lead to another 8 years of Clinton.
I gave you the quote.
It stands for itself.
According to Romney, Bain=Good and Insurance=Bad.
The hypocrisy is worth pointing out.
You are free to post your own thoughts but don’t pretend like you need to instruct me.
The whole sentence said fire people providing services, not fire company employees. We can probably fix this with a ten billion dollar government program, that takes over failing companies and keeps the employees on one side of the plant sharpening knives. And the other-side dulls them for recycling. Should work out well and we will save a ton on unemployment. That unemployed occupy woman with the woman studies degree could run public relations.
You gave a quote and it stands for itself?
By omission and out context?
I will tell you I am just like Mitt in the context of that statement.
I don’t get what I want “you will be fired and replaced with a superior alternative”(I hope) Whether that is for a service or an employee.
Non performance demands a response just as performance does.
So we are vetting Romney?
It almost sounds good. But.....
The guy picked winners and losers.
Romney: “I was talking about, as you know, insurance companies. We’d all like to get rid of our insurance companies.”
According to Romney, people don’t want insurance companies. Such a statement is hypocritical coming from him as well as untrue.
If you don’t think so then cancel your fire insurance and start a campfire on your sofa.
Questions about Romney’s ties to Marriott porn sales
First, Mitt Romney resigned from the board of Marriott, after serving for many years while the hotel chain made millions and millions of dollars from in-room porn.
The context in which he was saying that was a market based decision.
for years I had Farmers Insurance for my auto insurance. I thought I had to have a name brand to get excellent coverage.
Then a friend told me about Mercury Insurance. WTH? They were 2/3rds less!
I switched and have had several claims since. Guess my cars are magnets for people side swipping me, rear ending and a head on collision with some dork who crossed over into my lane.
Each time, Mercury had a car for me that day and a place to have my cars towed. Two of which were totaled and one I actually received a check for more than I paid for the car a year earlier.(I knew I had got a good deal on that car but didn’t know it was that good).
So Farmers got fired, I reduced my costs and received just terrific service.
Same with our telephone and Internet services. Hated them and their quality of service. Fired.
Same with employees who just can’t, for whatever reason, meet expectations. Fired(hate doing it but ultimately it becomes about everyone else still employed)
Investors who can’t seem to get the business or understand their responsibility. Later.
That is what MuttHole was talking about. Choices.
Instead, they are using the language of the left to criticize Romney on the substance of what he actually did. "You took greedy profits and left those workers without a job. That is wrong."
Sadly, there are no winners in this. The Republicans who are attacking them diminish themselves by adopting the language of the left, and Romney looks bad because it will be an albatross in the general election.
You must mean this quote:
Romney said the remark was deliberately taken out of context.
“I was talking about insurance companies. We like to be able to get rid of insurance companies that don’t give us the service that we need,” Romney said late Monday. “I do not want to live in a world where we have Obamacare telling us which insurance we have to have, which doctor we can have, which hospital we go to. I believe in a setting, as I described this morning, where people are able to choose their own doctor, choose their own insurance company. If they do not like their insurance company or their provider, they can get rid of them. That is the way America works.
Romney said: “We’d all like to get rid of our insurance companies.”
Romney attacked the whole insurance industry. You are guilty of injecting your own context.
That’s the issue isn’t it?
It does diminish their position. Make Mutt out to be a liar on stuff families discuss around the kitchen table.
This stuff is pushing the argument off the field and into...???? Who knows but I don’t discuss brand “x” unless I want help them.
Did Romney at Bain Capital raid “pension funds?” If Romney would raid people’s pension funds, he will have no problem raiding the Treasury.
Asked about the previous day's statement by a reporter just after Romney emerged from his campaign bus, he said: "I was talking about, as you know, insurance companies. We'd all like to get rid of our insurance companies."
(According to some here.)
Stop what? Free Speech?
Or talking to you?
He singled out the insurance industry for his example because Government care and fascist edict are concerns for Americans.
With the way ObamaCare is setup, you have no ability to fire an insurance company. You obligated to do business with one for merely being alive.
If you are arguing everyone should have insurance it is reasonable for the government to compel you to do business with an insurance provider and purchase a certain coverage, which they have defined then I understand your view.
“Asked about the previous day’s statement by a reporter just after Romney emerged from his campaign bus, he said: “I was talking about, as you know, insurance companies>”
“...previous day’s statement by a reporter...” is the context... can you you post a reference for that conversation for me?
Direct link to relevant video: http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/gingrich-romney-set-himself-up-for-dems-to-exploit-him/6qimd14
And what exactly is the problem with that statement?
I’d like to get rid of damn near everyone who sends me a bill. Either totally and completely or replace them with an alternative that I deem suitable.
Kind of like dental insurance. Total waste of money. I don’t have it.
$50 or more a month for dental insurance? LOL I see my dentist once or twice a year and he charges all of $100 to see me. I am at least $400 per year ahead and he has less paperwork to fill out.
So I fired my insurance for dental.
Sadly, even Obamacare doesn’t have dental coverage so I will stay have to pay out of pocket.
Stop exactly what I asked you to stop, what you ought not to be doing in the first place - injecting your own context to twist what Romney actually said.
BTW it is a bit LoL that you bring up Free Speech considering your first response to me was what I should be posting and what i should not be posting.
Got no more time for a Romneybot.
For all those freepers whining that Newt is attacking "capitalism", please listen and enjoy.
I wouldn’t be bothered if Romney broke his ulna or something and put an end to his campaign.
Then again that kind of cheap shot is what one would expect from someone who cannot factually maintain his argument.
Funny, never had this kind of interaction with you before and always liked your posts.
Let’s back away from each other????
2012 GOP presidential frontrunner Mitt Romney, who has a large lead in the polls heading into the New Hampshire primary tomorrow, has been taking heat from both Democrats and his Republican challengers for his time at Bain Capital, the private equity firm that he headed. Bains modus operandi was to invest in companies, leverage them up with debt, and then sell them off for scrap, allowing Bains investors to walk away with huge profits while the companies in which Bain invested wound up in bankruptcy, laying off workers and reneging on benefits.
Last week, Reuters profiled one company, Worldwide Grinding Systems, that went belly up after Bain invested in it. The company not only lost 750 jobs, but the federal government had to come in to bail out its pension fund, while Bain walked away with millions in profits.
And according to an analysis by the Wall Street Journal, this was far from an isolated incident. In fact, 22 percent of the companies in which Bain invested wound up either in bankruptcy or shutting their doors entirely, while Bain itself has made billions of dollars for its investors:
The Wall Street Journal, aiming for a comprehensive assessment, examined 77 businesses Bain invested in while Mr. Romney led the firm from its 1984 start until early 1999, to see how they fared during Bains involvement and shortly afterward.
Among the findings: 22% either filed for bankruptcy reorganization or closed their doors by the end of the eighth year after Bain first invested, sometimes with substantial job losses. An additional 8% ran into so much trouble that all of the money Bain invested was lost. [...]
The Journal analysis shows that in total, Bain produced about $2.5 billion in gains for its investors in the 77 deals, on about $1.1 billion invested. Overall, Bain recorded roughly 50% to 80% annual gains in this period, which experts said was among the best track records for buyout firms in that era.
Adding insult to injury, Bain would hide its profits in tax havens, not even paying the rate it was supposed to on the profits it made laying off workers.
Let's see how the taxpayers feel about bailing out these companies' pension funds and receiving no tax money back from Bain. Let's let the people decide qhat they think of Romney.
Are you paying me to be your personal secretary?
Like I can but you can't?
Go ahead a search it for yourself. That won't change Romney's attack on the whole insurance industry: "We'd all like to get rid of our insurance companies."
Which shows Romney to be both a hypocrite and a liar.
Bain=Good but Insurance companies=Bad, (Hypocrite). And the fact is many people freely buy insurance and would be worried sick without it (Liar).
Wrong, I had nationwide insurance for years, then I discovered I could save a ton and get a better deal and other benefits from the farm bureau, so I fired nationwide.
Please folks, lets get real!
There isn't a cable company that supplies cable to Hotel's Motel’s and for that matter homes that doesn't include Porn on the menu. If you own stock in any company that has cable then you are supporting porn. I'm sorry I just don't buy it. I don't have cable, not because I don't want to support porn but because there is nothing they have that I want.
Bain Capital was a successful company and is still a successful company because they help businesses succeed. Bain bought companies that were in trouble already, they were purchased because they were on their way out. Bain purchased them to try to make them work, if they couldn't make them profitable then they sold the assets and tried to get some of their investment money back.
If Mittens can't make that simple argument then he doesn’t deserve to be in front of anybody.
Gringrich has only hurt himself with his attack on Bain and Capitalism. Republicans, a good many of them anyway understand how capitalism works and don't fault Bain despite the poor unemployed workers at the plants that Bain closed. Gingrich has made himself look very little and spiteful by doing all this. The democrats will do it soon enough if Romney is the nominee and there is a real possibility he will be so the introduction of this does not hurt Romney I think it only hurts Gingrich.
I do think that all this helps Santorum because he has not played into it and has stayed above all the ruckus. I'm hoping that Santorum has a shot. I am very disappointed that Bachmann didn't do better, she was a woman with principle and a great platform. I hope she comes back.
I would not have voted for Gingrich in the primary anyway, my vote will go to Santorum, but after this childishness even if Santorum drops out I will not vote for Gingrich in the primary. Of course if he wins the nomination then I will be voting for him but I won't have to be happy about giving my vote to another RINO. I personally believe he wears his Catholicism on his sleeve for the benefit that it will give him in the race. If I could believe otherwise perhaps the bad taste in my mouth would not be so bad. I will be curious to see how long he remains true to the faith if he loses.
Mitt was for all of those in the past. Now he is against them. He grew more conservative as he got older.
He may not win but he sure as heck is going to make Newt mortgage a vacation home or two before he’s done. You guys at Bain have any job openings left?
Gingrich is wrong in this line of attack, totally wrong, and he (and his mentor Saul Alinsky Obama) will destroy America if he continues this course of action. Attacking one of the basic tenets of capitalism and handing the microphone to Barack Obama to continue the assault on the greatest wealth generating nation in the history of the world is an evil act - and Gingrich is guilty of it. Obama and Gingrich are one in their fundamental attack on American Capitalism.
He and Obama wish they could do what Romney did. Romney returned huge sums of PRIVATE money to his investors, and created thousands of jobs. Obama and Gingrich took the taxpayers’ money and squandered it. And the Republicans are spending money attacking Romney on this! This is Romney’s strength, the expert’s eye to find waste and eliminate it, make enterprises more efficient and more productive - including government. Through his talent, his intelligence, and his hard work he generated huge profits and tremendous wealth and this dwarf Republican and Saul Obama have the chutzpah to criticize him. They could not shine his shoes.
What Romney did is the allocation of scarce resources. Don’t talk to me about ‘workers’ because Obama and socialism are destroying millions of jobs and impoverishing our nation to mid-east oil states, and don’t tell me you can do it more efficiently Comrade Gingrich, because the market is smarter than you.
What did Obama do that was comparable to Bain Capital?
Obama’s only deal was having a felon buy him a home and then he organized a protest outside a banker’s home for not making more sub-prime mortgages. Romney has forgotten more about the economy that Obama will ever know.
Just like he did in Romneycare, right? Hahahaha...
Thanks for your response.
Hodar exposes you for the POS (Person Of Sophistry ) you are on another thread:
I want people to be able to own insurance if they wish to, and to buy it for themselves and perhaps keep it for the rest of their life, and to choose among different policies offered from companies across the nation. I want individuals to have their own insurance. That means the insurance company will have an incentive to keep you healthy.
It also means if you dont like what they do, you can fire them. I like being able to fire people who provide services to me. If someone doesnt give me the good service I need, Im going to go get somebody else to provide that service to me.
Video at Source link.
Funny, when you look AT WHAT HE ACTUALLY SAID - it doesn’t sound anything like what you are accusing him of. If you are going to blast him, please do yourself the favor of knowing what you are talking about.
I’m not a Mitt fan, never have been. I find his flip-flopping on abortion, gun rights, illegal aliens, goverment mandated insurance and other issues quite disgusting. But, I’m a big fan of honor, integrity, honesty and knowing the truth. Attacking someone over a lie, either means you have no integrity, no honesty, do not know how to tell the truth - or you just don’t know what actually was said. I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt, because I think you and I will agree 100% with what was actually said.
34 posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:24:21 PM by Hodar ( Who needs laws; when this FEELS so right?)
I guess if I criticize a ticket scalper I’m now going to be called a Marxist socialist left-wing progressive communist. Not everything people do for profit is a good thing. Sometimes they benefit some people at the expense of other people. It’s a totally legitimate question to ask who did they hurt, who did they help, and are the voters comfortable with that in the person elevated into their most trusted and powerful leadership position or not?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.