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Dem Drives Anti-Mormon Card
National Review ^ | 1/11/2012 | Kathryn Jean Lopez

Posted on 01/11/2012 11:55:36 AM PST by americanophile

On MSNBC just now, South Carolina Democratic chair Dick Harpootlian painted Republican voters there as potentially refusing to vote for a Mormon, while trying to make it so. From memory: It does not bother me that he may believe the Garden of Eden is in Missouri, but it may bother them.

This is an ugly card and I hope...

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: democrats; inman; mormonism; mormons; romney
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To: Elsie
It's PISSED off MORMONs that canNOT accept the FACT of what their BELOVED religious organization is built upon!

THEY whine and bitch constantly about lies, twisting, out of context, slander, and yet they utterly FAIL to produce ANY evidence of what they so pomposly claim.

So true!

101 posted on 01/11/2012 5:10:52 PM PST by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Degaston
However this talk is non scriptural canon or doctrine in the Mormon religion.

I realize Boyd K. Packer's admonishment is not scriptural canon or doctrine, but it's created a clear delineation in the presentation of LDS history.

First, in competing journals. One one hand, you have the 'faithful' journals, such as FARMS and anything from BYU or the Neal A. Maxwell Institute. On the other hand, you have journals that present LDS history without adhering to the 'faithful' standard, such as Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought and Sunstone.

Second, you have competing publishers. Deseret only publishes 'faithful' books regarding LDS history. If embarrassing facts are included, Deseret is not going to publish them. Signature Books and other publishers will publish 'non-faithful' history.

BYU professors are fired and LDS historians have been excommunicated or dis-enfellowshipped for writing non-faithful history (September Six, Palmer, Southerton, Quinn) .

LDS historians will state specifically whether they are 'faithful' or 'faith-promoting' or not. If their work is criticized by other LDS historians, they'll defend it by saying that they are, in fact, faithful Saints.

The negative reviews on LDS historian Todd Compton's award-winning book, In Sacred Honor: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith, that are linked on the fairLDS.org website, from FARMS, say that Compton wasn't 'faithful' enough in his interpretation of the journals and letters of Smith's wives and their friends and families.

'Faithful' has become a term of art.

It's why there's a scholarly article in a peer-reviewed journal called "How to Read Mormon History," written after the Packer incident.

And why there are articles by LDS 'non-faithful' historians on difficulties they face, where one footnote linking other journal articles on the difficulties caused by Packer and 'faith-promoting' history look like this:

"For other (sometimes academic, sometimes personal) statements by historians of Mormon background concerning the writing of Mormon history, see notes 4 and 5 above, and also Leonard J. Arrington, "Preface," Great Basin Kingdom: An Economic History of the Latter-day Saints, 1830-1900 (Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1958), esp. viii-ix; Marvin S. Hill, "The Historiography of Mormonism," Church History 28 (Dec. 1959): 418-26; Klaus J.Hansen, "Reflections on the Writing of Mormon History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 1 (Spring 1966): 158-60;Richard L. Bushman, "Taking Mormonism Seriously," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 1 (Summer 1966): 81-84; Bushman, "The Future of Mormon History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought (Autumn 1966): 23-26; Arrington, "The Search for Truth and Meaning in Mormon History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 3 (Summer 1968): 56-66; Bushman, "Faithful History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 4 (Winter 1969): 11-25; Fawn M. Brodie, Can We Manipulate the Past? (Salt Lake City: Center for the Study of the American West, University of Utah, 1970); Richard D. Poll, "God and Man in History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 7 (Spring 1972): 101-09; Hill, "Brodie Revisited: A Reappraisal," Dialogue: A [p.100]Journal of Mormon Thought 7 (Winter 1972): 85; Hill, "Secular or Sectarian History? A Critique of No Man Knows My History," Church History 43 (Mar. 1974): 78-96; William Mulder, "Fatherly Advice," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 9 (Winter 1974): 77-80; "History Is Then and Now: A Conversation with Leonard J. Arrington, Church Historian," Ensign 5 (July 1975): 8-13; Mulder, "The Mormon Angle of Historical Vision: Some Maverick Reflections," and Marvin S. Hill, "The 'Prophet Puzzle' Assembled: Or, How to Treat Our Historical Diplopia toward Joseph Smith,: Journal of Mormon History 3 (1976): 13-22, 101-05; Poll, "Nauvoo and the New Mormon History: A Bibliographical Survey," Journal of Mormon History 5 (1978): 105-123; James B. Allen, "Line Upon Line," Ensign 9 (July 1979): 32-39; Charles S. Peterson, "Mormon History: Some Problems and Prospects," Encyclia: Journal of the Utah Academy of Sciences, Arts and Letters 56 (1979): 114-26; "Mormon History: A Dialogue with Jan Shipps, Richard Bushman, and Leonard Arrington," Century 2 [BYU] 4 (Spring-Summer 1980): 27-39; Richard Sherlock, "The Gospel beyond Time: Thoughts on the Relation of Faith and Historical Knowledge," Sunstone 5, (July-Aug. 1980): 20-23; James L. Clayton, "History and Theology: The Mormon Connections: A Response," Sunstone 5 (Nov.-Dec. 1980): 51-53; Roger Elvin Borg, "Theological Marionettes': Historicism in Mormon History," Thetean: A Student Journal of History (Provo, UT: Beta Iota Chapter of Phi Alpha Theta, Brigham Young University, 1981): 5-20; Arrington, "The Writing of Latter-day Saint History: Problems, Accomplishments, and Admonitions," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 14 (Fall 1981): 119-29; Davis Bitton, "Mormon Biography," Biography: An Interdisciplinary Quarterly 4 (Winter 1981): 1-16; Clayton, "Does History Undermine Faith?" Sunstone 7 (Mar.-Apr. 1982): 33-40; Ronald K. Esplin, "How Then Should We Write History? Another View," Sunstone 7 (Mar.-Apr. 1982): 41-45; Jay Fox, "Clio and Calliope: Writing Imaginative Histories of the Pacific," Proceedings of the Mormon Pacific Historical Society, Third Annual Conference, April 10, 1982, 12-19; Ronald W. Walker, "The Nature and Craft of Mormon Biography," Brigham Young University Studies 22 (Spring 1982); 179-92; Bitton, "Like the Tigers of Old Time," Sunstone 7 (Sept.-Oct. 1982): 44-48; Melvin T. Smith, "Faithful History: Hazards and Limitations," Journal of Mormon History 9 (1982): 61-69; Arrington, "Personal Reflections on Mormon History," Sunstone 8 (July - Aug. 1983): 41-45; Smith, Faithful History/Secular Faith," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 16 (Winter 1983): 65-71; Thomas G. Alexander, "Toward the New Mormon History: An Examination of the Literature on the Latter-day Saints in the Far West," in Michael P. Malone, ed., Historians and the American West (Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press, 1983), 344-68; Smith, "Faithful History/Secular Religion," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 3 (1983): 51-58; Hill, "Richard L. Bushman: Scholar and Apologist," Journal of Mormon History 11 [p.101](1984): 125-33; Lavina Fielding Anderson, "The Assimilation of Mormon History: Modern Mormon Historical Novels," Mormon Letters Annual, 1983 (Salt Lake City: Association for Mormon Letters, 1984), 1-9; Arrington, "Why I Am a Believer," and Walker, "A Way Station," Sunstone 10 (Apr. 1985): 36-38, 58-59; Grant Underwood, "Re-visioning Mormon History," Pacific Historical Review 55 (Aug. 1986): 403-26; Alexander, "No Way to Build Bridges," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 22 (Spring 1989): 5; Hill, "The New Mormon History Reassessed in Light of Recent Books on Joseph Smith and Mormon Origins," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 21 (Autumn 1988): 115-27; Poll, History and Faith: Reflections of a Mormon Historian (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1989); Hansen, "Arrington's Historians," Sunstone 13 (Aug. 1989: 41-43; "Coming to Terms with Mormon History: An Interview with Leonard Arrington," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 22 (Winter 1989): 39-54; Hill, "Afterword," Brigham Young University Studies 30 (Fall1990): 117-24; David B. Honey and Daniel C. Peterson, "Advocacy and Inquiry in Mormon Historiography," Brigham Young University Studies 31 (Spring 1991): 139-79; Gary James Bergera, "The New Mormon Anti-Intellectualism," Sunstone 15 (June 1991): 53-55; D. Michael Quinn, "Editor's Introduction," The New Mormon History: Revisionist Essays on the Mormon Past (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1991); Malcolm R. Thorp, "Some Reflections on New Mormon History and the Possibilities of a 'New' Traditional History," Sunstone 15 (Nov. 1991): 39-46; Douglas F. Tobler and S. George Ellsworth, "History: Significance to Latter-day Saints," in Ludlow, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 3:595-98; Richard P. Howard, Restoration Scriptures: A Study of Their Textual Development (Independence, MO: Herald House, 1969); Richard P. Howard, "Latter Day Saint Scriptures and the Doctrine of Propositional Revelation," and Paul M. Edwards, "Why Am I Afraid to Tell You Who I Am?" in Courage: A Journal of History, Thought and Action 1 (June 1971): 209-25, 241-46; Richard P. Howard, "The Effect of Time and Changing Conditions on Our Knowledge of History," Saints' Herald 120 (June 1973): 54; Paul M. Edwards, "The Irony of Mormon History," Utah Historical Quarterly 41 (Autumn 1973): 393-409; Robert B. Flanders, "Some Reflections on the New Mormon History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 9 (Spring 1974): 34-41; Richard P. Howard, "The Historical Method as the Key to Understanding Our Heritage," Saints' Herald 121 (Nov. 1974): 53; Paul M. Edwards, "The Secular Smiths," Journal of Mormon History 4 (1977): 3-17; F. Henry Edwards, "Engagement with Church History," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 1 (1981): 30-33; Richard P. Howard, "Adjusting Theological Perspectives to Historical Reality," Saints' Herald 129 (Sept. 1982): 28; C. Robert Mesle, "History, Faith, and Myth," Sunstone 7 (Nov.-Dec. 1982): 10-13; Richard P. Howard, "Themes in Latter Day Saint History," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 2 (1982): 23-29; Richard P. Howard, "The Changing RLDS Response to Mormon Polygamy: A Preliminary Analysis," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 3 (1983): 14-28; Richard P. Howard, "The Problem of History and Revelation," Saints' Herald 131 (Oct. 1984): 24; Paul M. Edwards, "Our Own Story," Sunstone 10 (Jan.-Feb. 1985): 40-41; Alma R. Blair, "RLDS Views of Polygamy: Some Historiographical Notes," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 5 (1985): 16-28; Paul M. Edwards, "The New Mormon History," Saints' Herald 133 (Nov. 1986): 12-14, 20; W. Grant McMurray, "'As Historians and Not as Partisans': The Writing of Official History in the RLDS Church," and Roger D. Launius, "A New Historiographical Frontier: The Reorganization in the Twentieth Century," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 6 (1986): 43-52, 53-63; Don H. Compier, "History and the Problem of Evil: Reflections on the Philosophical and Theological Implications of the 'New Mormon History,'" and Flanders, "Review," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 8 (1988): 45-53, 91-93; Roger D. Launius, "Whither Reorganization Historiography?"; Paul M. Edwards, "A Time and a Season: History as History," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 10 (1990): 24-50, 85-90; and Paul M. Edwards, "A Community of Heart," Journal of Mormon History 17 (1991): 28-34; Leonard J. Arrington, "Historian as Entrepreneur: A Personal Essay," Brigham Young University Studies 17 (Winter 1977): 193-209; Arrington, "The Writing of Latter-day Saint History: Problems, Accomplishments and Admonitions," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 14 (Fall 1981): 119-29; Davis Bitton, "Ten Years in Camelot: A Personal Memoir," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 16 (Autumn 1983): 9-35; Howard C. [p.97]Searle, "Historians, Church," in Ludlow, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 2:591."

So it may not be doctrine, but it makes a big difference if you're writing or researching LDS history, this 'faith-promoting' deal.

We even have faithful reviews of non-faithful books about writing faithful history published by faithful history journals: Gary F. Novak, "Review of Faithful History: Essays on Writing Mormon History by George D. Smith," FARMS Review of Books 5/1 (1993).

102 posted on 01/11/2012 5:17:32 PM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: Loud Mime

“A religious test
IS being applied.”

You seem to have confused the Constitutional requirements for office with
the dictates of a person’s conscience when he or she casts their vote.


103 posted on 01/11/2012 5:24:35 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (You know, 99.99999965% of the lawyers give all of them a bad name)
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To: Degaston
You may disregard the Journals, but the following will clarify why the Journal of Discourses can be seen as a reflection of Mormonic beliefs:

“The Journal of Discourses deservedly ranks as one of the standard works of the Church, and every rightminded Saint will certainly welcome with joy every number (issue) as it comes forth.“ (President George Q. Cannon, Journal of Discourses, Preface, Volume 8.)

“Each successive Volume of these Discourses is a rich mine of wealth, containing gems of great value, and the diligent seeker will find ample reward for his labor. After the fathers and mothers of this generation have made them the study of their lives their children’s children will find that they are still unexhausted, and rejoice that this Record has been handed down from their fathers to also aid them in following the way of life .” (Apostle Orson Pratt, Preface. Volume 3.)

“It is impossible to give monetary value to the past volumes of this publication, … Those who read the utterances of the servants of God, contained in this book, under the same influence by which the speakers were inspired, cannot fail to receive profit from the perusal.” (President Joseph F. Smith, Preface, Volume 18.)

“We take great pleasure in presenting to the Saints and the world the … the Journal of Discourses, which they will find contains rich treasures of information concerning the glorious principles of Eternal Life, as revealed through God’s anointed servants in these last days. All who read the discourses contained in this Volume are earnestly recommended to adapt them to their lives by practice, and we can confidently assure them that, in doing so, they are laying up a store of knowledge that will save and exalt them in the Celestial kingdom.” (Apostle Albert Carrington, Journal of Discourses, Preface, Volume 15.)


104 posted on 01/11/2012 5:25:39 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they cannot be deceived, it's impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Loud Mime

“There’s no proof of Christianity, Islam, Judaism...”

There is a whole field of study called archeology you seem to have missed.


105 posted on 01/11/2012 5:26:00 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (You know, 99.99999965% of the lawyers give all of them a bad name)
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To: Degaston
If I didn't explain myself, my interest is in Mormon history. I support the right of LDS FR members to believe as they choose. I work in Scouting with many fine individuals who are LDS. I would vote for a Mormon for President - it depends on who the individual is.

I began studying Mormon history in the 1980's. Mormonism is the American contribution the to the world's major religions.

It's hard to study the history without getting a taste of theology, but my interest really isn't in theology. I'm not here to convert anybody.

106 posted on 01/11/2012 5:26:00 PM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: Loud Mime
You’re right - the bigots on FR have made their hatred clear.

Please don't call the MORMONs this: they tend to get upset.

(You WERE referring to #51; were you not???)

107 posted on 01/11/2012 5:31:17 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Loud Mime
A religious test IS being applied.

Are you saying that one CANNOT be applied?

108 posted on 01/11/2012 5:32:28 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Loud Mime
So much for the Constitutionalists here.

Which country's constitution are you thinking about?

109 posted on 01/11/2012 5:33:18 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Loud Mime
There’s no proof of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Catholicism, Hinduism, Taoism, Confucianism and the others. So why the pride and hatred?

And yet YOU are wasting your time talking about them.

Strange behaviour...

110 posted on 01/11/2012 5:36:42 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Scoutmaster
It is a sad fact that of all the America loving, qualified, honest black men and women in present day America, an incompetent, socialist liar named Barry Obama was the first black president.

In the same way, it will be a sad thing for the conniving, unscrupulous, lying, two-faced Mitt Romney to be the first Mormon president. The truth of what and who Mitt Romney is brings no honor to faithful conservative Mormons.

111 posted on 01/11/2012 5:37:32 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they cannot be deceived, it's impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Scoutmaster; restornu
Countless official sources for his speech about not telling all:

And perhaps HERE is the reason for MORMONs to IGNORE their own Organization's teachings:

 
 
Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted

 
 
Timeline...    Subject...
 
0:59           "Anti-Mormons..."
1:16           "ATTACK the faith you have..."
2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."
3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."

Once again Restornu; Thank You! for clueing me into the COMPLETE version of thbis video.


112 posted on 01/11/2012 5:40:04 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Utah Binger

The paper boy didn’t come this morning?


113 posted on 01/11/2012 5:41:24 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: svcw

Wow, you’re one of those people I read about here that think anything anyone says that isn’t hateful towards Mitt, means that they’re going to support him. Congrats


114 posted on 01/11/2012 5:42:20 PM PST by stuartcr ("In this election year of 12, how deep into their closets will we delve?")
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To: Elsie

???


115 posted on 01/11/2012 5:49:06 PM PST by stuartcr ("In this election year of 12, how deep into their closets will we delve?")
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To: stuartcr

That is not what I said, I said that mormons vote 94% for Romney so you must be pleased to part of that majority.
Which based on all your posts you are.
However, show me one hateful post against Romney the person, as opposed to his stink’n liberal policies and governance.
Pull up your big boy pants and defend the guy you appear to support or tell us the truth, if that’s possible.
Stop playing they mormon victim card, it is really boring.


116 posted on 01/11/2012 5:50:56 PM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: svcw

I would, but as you say, it appears to you that I support him...except that I don’t.

I’m in Virginia. I’ll vote for Dr. Paul in the primary and the republican candidate in the election.

Remember, just because you think something appears in a certain way to you, doesn’t make it so. That’s why people wear glasses.


117 posted on 01/11/2012 5:59:09 PM PST by stuartcr ("In this election year of 12, how deep into their closets will we delve?")
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To: Tennessee Nana
Im still on minimum wages after FIVE years...

Happy Anniversary!

118 posted on 01/11/2012 6:03:21 PM PST by Graybeard58 (Eccl 10 v. 19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.)
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To: stuartcr

Not sure what glasses have anything to do with it, but the “Dr. Paul” sure does.


119 posted on 01/11/2012 6:04:02 PM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: Degaston

Thank you for sharing that. It lines up with my experience as well.


120 posted on 01/11/2012 6:05:43 PM PST by reaganaut (If Romney is a conservative then I’m the frickin Angel Moroni.)
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To: Graybeard58; Elsie

Thank you Dear...

Does this mean now that like Elsie I too can get a raise for my great perfomance as an “paid anti-Mormon operative” ???

Eh ???


121 posted on 01/11/2012 6:10:39 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: svcw

To better help you see things as they are, instead of how you want to see them.

If you lived in Virginia, how would you vote?

I find it extremely amusing that you believe I’m a Mormon.


122 posted on 01/11/2012 6:11:33 PM PST by stuartcr ("In this election year of 12, how deep into their closets will we delve?")
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To: Loud Mime

So much for the Constitutionalists here. A religious test
IS being applied.
___________________________________

Yes in 2008 when the Mormons voted 94% for Romney just cause he too was a Mormon it was SO unConstitutional

SO bigoted..

SO UnAmerican...


123 posted on 01/11/2012 6:18:07 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: dragonblustar

I just watched that expose on the Mormon high priest, Williard Mitt Romney and his Bain company...

He was SO victimized by all those bad people...

http://www.webcasts.com/kingofbain/


124 posted on 01/11/2012 6:22:01 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Degaston
What impresses them is when people speak good things about Thomas S. Monson who the Mormons all must accept (if they want a temple recommend) as being God’s official spokesman on earth right now.

Kinda like Stepford Wives...

125 posted on 01/11/2012 6:26:14 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Degaston
...did to never speak evil of the Lord’s annointed (i.e. President Monson) ...

HA!

He's no more 'annointed' as is my pet GOAT!

He was VOTED IN (unanimously; of course) by a bunch of OTHER old geezers!

126 posted on 01/11/2012 6:28:03 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Degaston
However I also did make a covenant to try to be honest.

Try?

Yoda says there is no TRY; just DO.

127 posted on 01/11/2012 6:28:56 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Osage Orange

Hello Silence, my old friend...


128 posted on 01/11/2012 6:30:49 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Degaston
The late Amasa M. Lyman doesn’t have any credibility.

So?

Neither has Joseph Smith!

129 posted on 01/11/2012 6:32:31 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Degaston
In fact the Journal of Discourses don’t have any credibility IMO either.

Your opinion really doesn't count.

What have MORMON leaders said about the JoD?

130 posted on 01/11/2012 6:33:33 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Degaston
I really don’t get into Mormon theology much if ever because I try to keep my Mormon temple covenant to avoid loud laughter (especially when I’m at work) and anytime I think about Mormon teachings I just feel like laughing now.

I don't care what ANYone says; that there is FUNNY!

Yes; I DID LOL!!!

131 posted on 01/11/2012 6:35:01 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Loud Mime

Hey loudmouth,

the only thing people on here hate is MITT Romney and that is because of his politics not his religion. There is no hate for individual Mormons. What I hate is the fact that their OWN CHURCH lies to them. I feel sorry for the LDS members themselves and I pray for them.

And if you aren’t happy, why are you still here?

And PLEASE point out where in the Constitution it is prohibited for INDIVIDUALS to have a religious test for office?


132 posted on 01/11/2012 6:35:01 PM PST by reaganaut (If Romney is a conservative then I’m the frickin Angel Moroni.)
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To: stuartcr

???

#51


133 posted on 01/11/2012 6:38:52 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Osage Orange; Loud Mime; Colofornian; colorcountry

Give me 10 examples of hatred....here on FR, against mormon’s.

- - - -
He can’t. However we can probably come up with at least 10 examples of hatred towards our little group - accused of being Nazis, of arson, of murder, even our nickname was an accusation of terrorism...who are the real hater? It ain’t us.


134 posted on 01/11/2012 6:39:03 PM PST by reaganaut (If Romney is a conservative then I’m the frickin Angel Moroni.)
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To: Tennessee Nana

See!

Right THERE is why you only gettin’ MINIMUM!


135 posted on 01/11/2012 6:40:23 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

Eh ???


136 posted on 01/11/2012 7:01:45 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Degaston

So in summary, you work yourself into an emotional experience. However, that experience failed to reverse the DNA proofs against the bom. Infact, it continues to go badly for the book of mormon

http://simonsoutherton.blogspot.com/


137 posted on 01/11/2012 7:02:18 PM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: stuartcr

Oh, silly me.
I suppose it is the constant defense of mormonISM and trashing and attacking anyone who exposes momronISM.


138 posted on 01/11/2012 7:07:38 PM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: Degaston

My stake had a serial rapist who was moved from ward to ward and it covered up. Any of the women who wanted to go to the police were told not to and were threatened with excommunication. I only found out because his psychologist (my boyfriend’s father) broke confidentiality and warned me.

You are correct that it is all about making ‘the Church’ look good.


139 posted on 01/11/2012 7:14:32 PM PST by reaganaut (If Romney is a conservative then I’m the frickin Angel Moroni.)
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To: Degaston

I left long before the Lamanite DNA issue, my issues with the LDS church lying started with the public release of the “Pace Memo” and the Strengthening the Members committee along with the coverup of the real state of Ezra Taft Benson’s health, which I was aware of because of my friendship with his son, Reed.

However, I have heard that many other LDS had the same crisis of faith that you did over the DNA issue.

I applaud you for speaking your mind.


140 posted on 01/11/2012 7:32:23 PM PST by reaganaut (If Romney is a conservative then I’m the frickin Angel Moroni.)
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To: Degaston

I really don’t get into Mormon theology much if ever because I try to keep my Mormon temple covenant to avoid loud laughter (especially when I’m at work) and anytime I think about Mormon teachings I just feel like laughing now.

- - - - -
ROFLMAO! (and yes that was intentional regarding loud laughter). ;)


141 posted on 01/11/2012 7:34:27 PM PST by reaganaut (If Romney is a conservative then I’m the frickin Angel Moroni.)
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To: Godzilla; Degaston; reaganaut; Colofornian; Elsie; svcw; greyfoxx39
Lamanite DNA's going to change, apparently:

"I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today as against that of only fifteen years ago. Truly the scales of darkness are falling from their eyes, and they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people....The day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised. In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos. The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation."

"At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl . . . was several shades lighter than her parents[.] There was the doctor in a Utah city who for two years had had an Indian boy in his home who stated that he was some shades lighter than the younger brother just coming into the program from the reservation. These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated."

"The day of the Lamanites has come . . . today the dark clouds are dissipating."

Twelfth president/prophet Spencer W. Kimball, LDS Improvement Era magazine, December 1960. pages 922-23.
142 posted on 01/11/2012 7:37:04 PM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: Graybeard58; Tennessee Nana; svcw; ejonesie22; Elsie

Indeed, Happy FR Birthday, Nana!


143 posted on 01/11/2012 7:42:28 PM PST by reaganaut (If Romney is a conservative then I’m the frickin Angel Moroni.)
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To: Scoutmaster

Thank YOU! I was looking for that exact quote the other day and couldn’t find it.

You, scout, are a treasure.


144 posted on 01/11/2012 7:46:06 PM PST by reaganaut (If Romney is a conservative then I’m the frickin Angel Moroni.)
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To: Elsie

Days are upside down.


145 posted on 01/12/2012 1:54:42 AM PST by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: Scoutmaster

Absolute insanity. Ravings of a madman.

No wonder our Mormon friends are left speechless.


146 posted on 01/12/2012 3:35:15 AM PST by bonfire
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To: Scoutmaster
And why there are articles by LDS 'non-faithful' historians on difficulties they face, where one footnote linking other journal articles on the difficulties caused by Packer and 'faith-promoting' history look like this:

"For other (sometimes academic, sometimes personal) statements by historians of Mormon background concerning the writing of Mormon history, see notes 4 and 5 above, and also Leonard J. Arrington, "Preface," Great Basin Kingdom: An Economic History of the Latter-day Saints, 1830-1900 (Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1958), esp. viii-ix;
 
Marvin S. Hill, "The Historiography of Mormonism," Church History 28 (Dec. 1959): 418-26;
Klaus J.Hansen, "Reflections on the Writing of Mormon History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 1 (Spring 1966): 158-60;
Richard L. Bushman, "Taking Mormonism Seriously," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 1 (Summer 1966): 81-84;
Bushman, "The Future of Mormon History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought (Autumn 1966): 23-26;
Arrington, "The Search for Truth and Meaning in Mormon History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 3 (Summer 1968): 56-66;
Bushman, "Faithful History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 4 (Winter 1969): 11-25;
Fawn M. Brodie, Can We Manipulate the Past? (Salt Lake City: Center for the Study of the American West, University of Utah, 1970);
Richard D. Poll, "God and Man in History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 7 (Spring 1972): 101-09;
Hill, "Brodie Revisited: A Reappraisal," Dialogue: A [p.100]Journal of Mormon Thought 7 (Winter 1972): 85; 
Hill, "Secular or Sectarian History? A Critique of No Man Knows My History," Church History 43 (Mar. 1974): 78-96;
William Mulder, "Fatherly Advice," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 9 (Winter 1974): 77-80;
Mulder, "History Is Then and Now: A Conversation with Leonard J. Arrington, Church Historian," Ensign 5 (July 1975): 8-13;
Mulder, "The Mormon Angle of Historical Vision: Some Maverick Reflections," and Marvin S. Hill, "The 'Prophet Puzzle' Assembled: Or, How to Treat Our Historical Diplopia toward Joseph Smith,: Journal of Mormon History 3 (1976): 13-22, 101-05;
Poll, "Nauvoo and the New Mormon History: A Bibliographical Survey," Journal of Mormon History 5 (1978): 105-123;
James B. Allen, "Line Upon Line," Ensign 9 (July 1979): 32-39;
Charles S. Peterson, "Mormon History: Some Problems and Prospects," Encyclia: Journal of the Utah Academy of Sciences, Arts and Letters 56 (1979): 114-26;
Charles S. Peterson, "Mormon History: A Dialogue with Jan Shipps, Richard Bushman, and Leonard Arrington," Century 2 [BYU] 4 (Spring-Summer 1980): 27-39;
Richard Sherlock, "The Gospel beyond Time: Thoughts on the Relation of Faith and Historical Knowledge," Sunstone 5, (July-Aug. 1980): 20-23;
James L. Clayton, "History and Theology: The Mormon Connections: A Response," Sunstone 5 (Nov.-Dec. 1980): 51-53;
Roger Elvin Borg, "Theological Marionettes': Historicism in Mormon History," Thetean: A Student Journal of History (Provo, UT: Beta Iota Chapter of Phi Alpha Theta, Brigham Young University, 1981): 5-20;
 
Arrington, "The Writing of Latter-day Saint History: Problems, Accomplishments, and Admonitions," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 14 (Fall 1981): 119-29;
Davis Bitton, "Mormon Biography," Biography: An Interdisciplinary Quarterly 4 (Winter 1981): 1-16;
Clayton, "Does History Undermine Faith?" Sunstone 7 (Mar.-Apr. 1982): 33-40;
Ronald K. Esplin, "How Then Should We Write History? Another View," Sunstone 7 (Mar.-Apr. 1982): 41-45;
Jay Fox, "Clio and Calliope: Writing Imaginative Histories of the Pacific," Proceedings of the Mormon Pacific Historical Society, Third Annual Conference, April 10, 1982, 12-19;
Ronald W. Walker, "The Nature and Craft of Mormon Biography," Brigham Young University Studies 22 (Spring 1982); 179-92;
Bitton, "Like the Tigers of Old Time," Sunstone 7 (Sept.-Oct. 1982): 44-48; Melvin T. Smith, "Faithful History: Hazards and Limitations," Journal of Mormon History 9 (1982): 61-69;
Arrington, "Personal Reflections on Mormon History," Sunstone 8 (July - Aug. 1983): 41-45;
Smith, Faithful History/Secular Faith," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 16 (Winter 1983): 65-71;
Thomas G. Alexander, "Toward the New Mormon History: An Examination of the Literature on the Latter-day Saints in the Far West," in Michael P. Malone, ed., Historians and the American West (Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press, 1983), 344-68; Smith, "Faithful History/Secular Religion," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 3 (1983): 51-58;
Hill, "Richard L. Bushman: Scholar and Apologist," Journal of Mormon History 11 [p.101](1984): 125-33;
Lavina Fielding Anderson, "The Assimilation of Mormon History: Modern Mormon Historical Novels," Mormon Letters Annual, 1983 (Salt Lake City: Association for Mormon Letters, 1984), 1-9;
 
Arrington, "Why I Am a Believer," and Walker, "A Way Station," Sunstone 10 (Apr. 1985): 36-38, 58-59;
Grant Underwood, "Re-visioning Mormon History," Pacific Historical Review 55 (Aug. 1986): 403-26;
Alexander, "No Way to Build Bridges," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 22 (Spring 1989): 5;
Hill, "The New Mormon History Reassessed in Light of Recent Books on Joseph Smith and Mormon Origins," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 21 (Autumn 1988): 115-27;
Poll, History and Faith: Reflections of a Mormon Historian (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1989);
 
Hansen, "Arrington's Historians," Sunstone 13 (Aug. 1989: 41-43; "Coming to Terms with Mormon History: An Interview with Leonard Arrington," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 22 (Winter 1989): 39-54;
 
Hill, "Afterword," Brigham Young University Studies 30 (Fall1990): 117-24;
David B. Honey and Daniel C. Peterson, "Advocacy and Inquiry in Mormon Historiography," Brigham Young University Studies 31 (Spring 1991): 139-79;
Gary James Bergera, "The New Mormon Anti-Intellectualism," Sunstone 15 (June 1991): 53-55;
D. Michael Quinn, "Editor's Introduction," The New Mormon History: Revisionist Essays on the Mormon Past (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1991);
Malcolm R. Thorp, "Some Reflections on New Mormon History and the Possibilities of a 'New' Traditional History," Sunstone 15 (Nov. 1991): 39-46;
Douglas F. Tobler and S. George Ellsworth, "History: Significance to Latter-day Saints," in Ludlow, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 3:595-98;
Richard P. Howard, Restoration Scriptures: A Study of Their Textual Development (Independence, MO: Herald House, 1969);
Richard P. Howard, "Latter Day Saint Scriptures and the Doctrine of Propositional Revelation," and Paul M. Edwards, "Why Am I Afraid to Tell You Who I Am?" in Courage: A Journal of History, Thought and Action 1 (June 1971): 209-25, 241-46;
Richard P. Howard, "The Effect of Time and Changing Conditions on Our Knowledge of History," Saints' Herald 120 (June 1973): 54;
Paul M. Edwards, "The Irony of Mormon History," Utah Historical Quarterly 41 (Autumn 1973): 393-409;
Robert B. Flanders, "Some Reflections on the New Mormon History," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 9 (Spring 1974): 34-41;
Richard P. Howard, "The Historical Method as the Key to Understanding Our Heritage," Saints' Herald 121 (Nov. 1974): 53;
Paul M. Edwards, "The Secular Smiths," Journal of Mormon History 4 (1977): 3-17;
F. Henry Edwards, "Engagement with Church History," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 1 (1981): 30-33;
Richard P. Howard, "Adjusting Theological Perspectives to Historical Reality," Saints' Herald 129 (Sept. 1982): 28;
C. Robert Mesle, "History, Faith, and Myth," Sunstone 7 (Nov.-Dec. 1982): 10-13;
Richard P. Howard, "Themes in Latter Day Saint History," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 2 (1982): 23-29;
Richard P. Howard, "The Changing RLDS Response to Mormon Polygamy: A Preliminary Analysis," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 3 (1983): 14-28;
Richard P. Howard, "The Problem of History and Revelation," Saints' Herald 131 (Oct. 1984): 24;
Paul M. Edwards, "Our Own Story," Sunstone 10 (Jan.-Feb. 1985): 40-41;
Alma R. Blair, "RLDS Views of Polygamy: Some Historiographical Notes," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 5 (1985): 16-28;
Paul M. Edwards, "The New Mormon History," Saints' Herald 133 (Nov. 1986): 12-14, 20;
W. Grant McMurray, "'As Historians and Not as Partisans': The Writing of Official History in the RLDS Church," and Roger D. Launius, "A New Historiographical Frontier: The Reorganization in the Twentieth Century," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 6 (1986): 43-52, 53-63;
 
Don H. Compier, "History and the Problem of Evil: Reflections on the Philosophical and Theological Implications of the 'New Mormon History,'" and Flanders, "Review," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 8 (1988): 45-53, 91-93;
Roger D. Launius, "Whither Reorganization Historiography?"; Paul M. Edwards, "A Time and a Season: History as History," John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 10 (1990): 24-50, 85-90; and Paul M. Edwards, "A Community of Heart," Journal of Mormon History 17 (1991): 28-34;
 
Leonard J. Arrington, "Historian as Entrepreneur: A Personal Essay," Brigham Young University Studies 17 (Winter 1977): 193-209;
Arrington, "The Writing of Latter-day Saint History: Problems, Accomplishments and Admonitions," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 14 (Fall 1981): 119-29;
Davis Bitton, "Ten Years in Camelot: A Personal Memoir," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 16 (Autumn 1983): 9-35;
Howard C. [p.97]Searle, "Historians, Church," in Ludlow, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 2:591."

So it may not be doctrine, but it makes a big difference if you're writing or researching LDS history, this 'faith-promoting' deal.

We even have faithful reviews of non-faithful books about writing faithful history published by faithful history journals: Gary F. Novak, "Review of Faithful History: Essays on Writing Mormon History by George D. Smith," FARMS Review of Books 5/1 (1993).

147 posted on 01/12/2012 4:04:17 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Tennessee Nana
Eh ???

You is ISMless!

Does this mean now that like Elsie I too can get a raise for my great perfomance as an “paid anti-Mormon operative” ???

148 posted on 01/12/2012 4:08:00 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Godzilla
When I woke up on the 3rd of August 1998 my mind had finally accepted the truth.

 FREE KITTENS

A pretty little girl named Suzy was standing on the sidewalk in front of her home in Salt Lake City. Next to her was a basket containing a number of tiny creatures; in her hand was a sign announcing FREE KITTENS.

Suddenly a line of big black cars pulled up beside her. Out of the lead car stepped a tall, grinning man.

"Hi there little girl, I'm President Thomas Monson. What do you have in the basket?" he asked.

"Kittens," little Suzy said.

"How old are they?" asked Monson.

Suzy replied, "They're so young, their eyes aren't even open yet."

"And what kind of kittens are they?"

"Mormons," answered Suzy with a smile.

Thompson was delighted. As soon as he returned to his car, he called his PR chief and told him about the little girl and the kittens.

Recognizing the perfect photo op, the two men agreed that the president should return the next day; and in front of the assembled media, have the girl talk about her discerning kittens.

 

 

So the next day, Suzy was again standing on the sidewalk with her basket of "FREE KITTENS," when another motorcade pulled up, this time followed by vans from Deseret News, The Ensign magazine  and KSL.

Cameras and audio equipment were quickly set up, then Thompson got out of his limo and walked over to little Suzy.

"Hello, again," he said, "I'd love it if you would tell all my friends out there what kind of kittens you're giving away."

"Yes sir," Suzy said. "They're Christians."

Taken by surprise, the Living Prophet® stammered, "But... but... yesterday, you told me they were MORMONS."

Little Suzy smiled and said, "I know. But today, they have their eyes open"



149 posted on 01/12/2012 4:10:55 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: reaganaut
...Ezra Taft Benson’s health...

It is GOOD for the Living Prophet® to enjoy good health.

If it becomes SO poor that the Living Prophet® ain't: no one will then take HIM seriously any more...




In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.


1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.

Ezra Taft Benson

(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)


150 posted on 01/12/2012 4:15:24 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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