Add Bain to list of things we cannot discuss

Legall Insurrection ^ | 1/11/2012 | William Jacobson

[Lakeshark]

Politico has a story about Newt agreeing not to go after Romney any more about Bain, and Newt was just on Hannity’s radio show on the issue. (I’ll post the audio if I can get it.)

Newt said there are three or four instances where the record is really bad and Romney needs to defend it. Newt said the challenge is not to the model but how Romney acted in specific instances, and how odd it is that Romney runs on his business record but doesn’t want to discuss the record.

Newt made the point that it is impossible to discuss the issue without being accused of class warfare by people trying to protect Romney, but the issue will come up if Romney is the nominee without knowing how much it would hurt Romney.

Newt did not back away from the issue, but said he is moving on.

You know my position. Newt is making a purely political decision to move on. Once he lost Rush and Hannity on the issue — wrongly I believe — it no longer was politically tenable.

So we will go through the primary process and possibly nominate someone with a potentially devastating electability problem. The electablility problem will not go away, we just will not find out how bad it is until September and October 2012.

So add Bain to the list of things we cannot discuss, for fear of being labeled anti-capitalist. Along with Jeremiah Wright, for fear of being called racist.

[Lakeshark]

Romney won't be vetted on Bain, unless he wins the nomination, then he will be destroyed by the demonrats along with the GOP downstate candidates. They'll all be running from the party nominee if he wins it. Frankly, Rush did a really wrong thing here with his last two days of programming with his willingness to accept the premise that attacking Romney on Bain was an attack on capitalism.

I fear we may live to regret that.

[Lakeshark]

*Sigh*

[onyx]

KING OF BAIN - WHEN MITT ROMNEY CAME TO TOWN

[Utmost Certainty]

Shame we have so many zealous, wannabe Capitalistas here at FR and elsewhere, who adamantly defend Bain Capital's manner of shuck and jive financial paper shuffling as exemplary acts of free-market enterprise.

Even ZeroHedge doesn't defend Romney's record as a 'capitalist':

"Lately, Bain founder and GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney has found himself in a spirited defense of the private equity industry, doing all he can to spin decades of data which confirm, without failure, that PE Leveraged Buy Outs are nothing but "efficiency maximizing" transactions whose only goal is the "maximization" of EBITDA in the pursuit of dividend recap deals, IPOs or outright sales, while loading up the company with untenable amounts of leverage. All this with a 3-5 year investment horizon, which ignores the long-term viability of a company and seeks to streamline (read fire as many as possible) operations as quickly as possible in the goal of maximizing short-term returns. We wish him luck in his endeavor."

If commenting on the business practices of firms like Bain Capital is somehow an "attack on capitalism", then it's no small wonder that Capitalism losing the war of ideas. Thanks, guys!

[Kansas58]

Newt was wrong.
I really like the guy, but this brought back memories of Newt on the couch with Nancy, and Newt praising FDR.

Newt has a very bad habit of using the language and premise of the LEFT!

There is no gain for the conservative movement to be had in surrendering our values to the anti-capitalists and Socialists.

[onyx]

“Capitalism” is Karl Marx's word.

“Free Enterprise” is American and Newt Gingrich is all for Free Enterprise and also for capitalism in the way the majority of us define it.

The GOP-E, Faux News, the GOP punditry are all in the tank for Romney.

Only MSNBC'snasty hosts and commentators understand that Newt was right and that the democrats are dying to run against Romney. Simultaneously sad, sick and funny.

[livius]

I think Gingrich has accomplished what needed to be accomplished with the Bain ads and it’s fine to move on now. Romney has still not come forward and explained his actions and some of these deals (or the bailout) and Gingrich needs to keep challenging him to do so. But the ads have at least caused people to ask questions about Romney, who was skating through scot free before.

As for Rush, I was very disappointed in him. There is no way the attack on Romney’s work at Bain could be interpreted as an attack on capitalism, even by the most cursory reading, and sometimes I think that in the last couple of years (ever since he married the new babe, perhaps?) Rush has been slipping and doesn’t really prepare his shows very carefully anymore. He shoots from the lip, as they say.

The problem is that he established himself as being very authoritative in earlier years, when he actually did do a lot of research, so many people are confused now by his unfounded rants and it is very easy for him to unleash a meme, accidentally or on purpose.

[deport]

Are You Sitting Down? Romney Compares His Career at Bain Capital to Obama's Takeover of the Auto Industry!

[abigailsmybaby]

Seems to me that the definition of capitalist now includes promoting taxpayer bailouts and depending on taxpayer bailouts. We can thank Rush for that too since he declared Romney the capitalist and Gingrich the anti-capitalist.

[livius]

Show me one thing that Gingrich said that is anti-capitalist. That’s Rush’s bizarre interpretation of it, not Gingrich’s words.

[Kansas58]

Without Bain’s involvement, nearly all of the companies Bain became involved with would no longer exist.
Bain gets involved when a company is ALREADY IN TROUBLE!

I like Newt, Perry and Santorum before I would support Mitt in the Primary.

However, I REFUSE to allow stupid attacks on capitalism to go unpunished or uncorrected.

Newt was wrong.

[dfwgator]

If Conservatives don’t vet Romney on Bain, then the moderates and independents will.

[joesbucks]

You can’t win in a fight with someone with 400-600 affiliates, control of the clock, your ability to speak and the ability to have the final word no matter what.

[Kansas58]

“$300 million profit, was 200 million enough, or 100 million?”

Newt said that.

Newt sounded like Karl Marx.

It was a STUPID thing to say and Newt owes all of us a retraction and an apology.

The government has no business telling any business how much money they are allowed to make!

[Utmost Certainty]

Just because Bain gets involved with dying companies, doesn't somehow make them virtuous capitalists. What an atrocious leap of logic you're making.

And get it straight: nobody is disparaging the principle of free-market, entrepreneurial creative destruction per Joseph Schumpeter—especially not Newt. What is disconcerting is NOT the concept of this, but the facts of Bain's Capital track record at engaging in this process. There are profound differences between facts and concepts, do you get it?

[dfwgator]

The government has no business telling any business how much money they are allowed to make!

When businesses stop lobbying the government for advantageous legislation, designed to eliminate their competition, then we'll talk.

[Kansas58]

Rush may have “shot from the hip” as you claim, but:

RUSH HIT IS TARGET!

Rush is about ideas, not candidates.

Rush is about conservatism.

Rush has called out Perry, Newt and ROMNEY for their errors in conservative principle.

[Lakeshark]

I like Rush, listen to him a bit every day, and heard him speak about this two days in a row.

He's usually much better, and he simply torpedoed this attempt to vet Romney in a knee jerk kind of way. He's usually much better. He does not like Romney, and should have let it lie, much like he let the attacks on Newt in Iowa lie.

I'm kind of disappointed in what he's done with this issue.

[bigbob]

This argument never was tenable, it was stupid from the outset, and the problem with Newt is that he went ahead and put it out there without realizing that.

[Jim from C-Town]

Horse$hit! Very few successful, from Bain’s point of view IE PROFITABLE, ventures where turn arounds. Many where straight up Pump & Dumps and break ups.

[Kansas58]

Wrong, entirely wrong.
Bain, and companies like Bain, get involved when a company is having trouble.
Bankruptcy or Bain? That is the question these companies asked themselves before getting involved with Bain.

This is what SHOULD happen.

Private Equity firms like Bain are CAPITALISM at work. The exact opposite of the Obama bailouts.

(Though Romney has done an AWFUL job, thus far, in explaining this point.)

[Jim from C-Town]

Rush is first and foremost about Rush. As he should be.

[demas415]

I recently joined this site because I heard it was solidly conservative. With Newt and half of the people here advancing Marxist arguments against venture capitalism, it appears as though conservatism has already lost, regardless of what happens in the election.

[Lakeshark]

Well, I disagree, the argument was quite winnable, if you saw Newt's discussion on Morning Joe yesterday, he had it nailed.

Not all capital endeavor is something to be applauded, Enron, the activity of the unions, and Larry Flint are just a few that are testimonials to that idea.

[dfwgator]

Rush is first and foremost about Rush. As he should be.

And yet his liberal detractors still believe he issues marching orders to his minions.

[Utmost Certainty]

Yawn. Your arguments are stinky platitudes. Sounds like a naive Capitalista demagogue who conflates government-rigged corporatism with free-market entrepreneurialism.

[Lakeshark]

Hey, who are you calling a minion?

**Looking up minion in dictionary**

[dfwgator]

I have a question for the Romney defenders, how did his Bain experience make him a better Governor of Massachusetts?

[bigbob]

And your source (with data to back it up) is....? Newt is also a hypocrite for raising this argument, as he also served on an advisory board for PE firm Forstmann Little from 1999-2001. This board that Gingrich served on met twice a year in Manhattan at either the “21″ Club or at the Four Seasons, and involved potential investments, principally in the health care industry. Gingrich made personal investments in some of the companies held by Forstmann Little.

[dfwgator]

[Kansas58]

Sure, I get it.
You are biased towards one personality and biased against another personality.
I do not like Mitt on gun rights.
I do not like Mitt on Romneycare.
I do not like Mitt on abortion.
Well, lets say I do not trust the man, since he seems to change with the wind.
However, “False witness against thy neighbor” is still a sin to me, and though I will not vote for Romney in this Primary, I will not allow stupid LEFTIST attacks against Romney to go unchallenged.
This election cycle is VERY important.
However, the conflict between Capitalism/Liberty vs Communism/Tyranny will continue no matter the vote in November.
Newt's stupid comments helped the Left.
I am upset with Newt.
I still support him, but I am mad at him.

[swampfox101]

OUCH....! That had to hurt...! Captialist want it both ways.

[Kansas58]

A true “Pump and Dump” is ILLEGAL!
Got any evidence?

Full disclosure, you are arguing with a Series 7 CFP.

That does not make me perfect, but I know more than the average bear.

[Kansas58]

Where does your logic end?
you would fit well in the Obama admin with logic like that! Another point: Where is the evidence that Bain every received government bail outs or government financing? Bain is the ALTERNATIVE to a government bail out!

[dfwgator]

Separation of Business and State!

[SVTCobra03]

Romney = Gordon Gekko.

[swampfox101]

Rush chose Mittens and savaged Newt.... Rush made his choice.....

[livius]

He was talking about the way Bain operated, which was not by doing the hard work of investing in a firm and either rebuilding it or taking it down and bringing something else out of it. Bain went after the quick, short term profit that came from stripping a company of its assets and dumping it, and also relied on government guarantees (bailouts) in some cases when it miscalculated and there wasn’t enough profit in its usual strategy.

The capitalism that has brought prosperity to our country is not the same thing as highway robbery or a bully snatching candy from a weaker kid. Declaring that it is, and that any way that somebody wants to get money out of somebody else is automatically good (in the bizarre Ayn Rand-ish way I am seeing here) does a great disservice to capitalism.

[Califreak]

Are those Ron Paul’s peeps?

[greyfoxx39]

Rush and Hannity are both looking out for number 1.

"Clear Channel Communications, Inc. is an American media conglomeratecompany headquartered in San Antonio, Texas.[3] It was founded in 1972 by Lowry Mays and Red McCombs, and ken private by Bain Capital LLC and Thomas H. Lee Partners LP in a leveraged buyout in 2008.[4] Clear Channel specializes in radio broadcasting, concert promotion and hosting, and fixed advertising in the United States through its subsidiaries. After 21 years, Mark Mays stepped down as President and CEO of Clear Channel on June 23, 2010.[5] Mays will remain as Chairman of the Board, a position he has held for a year prior. The Board has engaged Egon Zehnder International, a leading executive search firm, to lead the search for a new CEO"

Everybody has a price. Clear Channel Premier employs them.

Rush Limbaugh Renews Long-Term Contract With Premiere Radio Networks and Clear Channel Radio as He Celebrates 20 Years On Air and KOMO 4 Television Wins National Edward R. Murrow Award for Overall Excellence

Follow the money.....

Bain Capital, Founded by Romney, Buys Clear Channel By: Jane Hamsher Thursday December 13, 2007 4:11 pm

Mitt Romney founded Bain & Co. in 1984, and today its spinoff -- Bain Capital -- is the third largest private equity firm in the country. Today they bought ClearChannel, a company that owns over 1100 radio stations and 30 TV stations.

This is why media consolidation issues are so important. One rich guy who wants to be president can buy a media empire overnight. Now of course, Romney will argue that he didn’t buy Clear Channel, his private equity company Bain Capital did. And of course, there is no conflict of interest because Romney doesn’t tell Bain Capital what to do as he’s no longer officially with the company.

Still, seeing as how Clear Channel hosts Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and Sean Hannity and controls over 1,000 TV and radio stations nationwide, does anyone here really think Romney won’t use this newfound pedestal to promote his candidacy, however subtly?

[dfwgator]

Where is the evidence that Bain every received government bail outs or government financing?

What would you call the government bailing out underfunded pension plans raided by Bain........hmmmmmm?

[Lakeshark]

I think you are correct in saying Newt was wrong with a few of his comments, but to claim it was entirely a fabrication, an attack on capitalism itself, or that the attack is not correct is short sighted. Here is his commentary yesterday (scroll down at link to video), it explains it fairly cleanly: http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/01/selling-out-capitalism-in-the-defense-of-romney-and-bain/

[Kansas58]

HUH?
Where is the evidence that ANY of Romney's Bain ventures were “government rigged”??

You are making leaps in logic with “facts” not in evidence.

And, yes, yawning indicates that you are asleep at the wheel as you try to drive your arguments home.

[Utmost Certainty]

Please. Pulling the covers over Romney’s record at Bain Capital, ain’t doing Capitalism any favors.

Like I said, with people like you running around as self-anointed defenders of Capitalism, and arguing that any scrutiny of business practices is tantamount to an attack on the very philosophical foundations of Capitalism itself… well, it’s no small wonder that Capitalism seems to be losing the war of ideas. People with attitudes like yours are just ironically validating the destructive sophistry of the Left.

[swampfox101]

I’m fer it. True “Free Enterprise”.

[livius]

There is nothing wrong with companies like Bain; I worked for one for awhile.

But not all companies and not all deals are good or effective, and there were many things wrong with the actual deals that Bain did and with the fact that it relied on the government to back it in some cases. Romney has never had to explain this, and he should.

[Lakeshark]

Dang it, where did you get those pics of me us?

:-)

[allmendream]

I get it just fine.

The CONCEPT of a company coming in and saving a dying company via laying off a third of their workforce and restructuring is all well and good and fine and pure capitalism.

But the FACTS of someone losing their job (while others were able to keep theirs) are troubling, predatory, mean, unfair, etc.

Yes, a PROFOUND difference between the concept and the facts.

Conceptual people getting fired doesn’t rate the same emotion as actual people getting fired.

But in order for the concept to be of any value, the reality needs to acknowledged as consistent with the concept.

[CainConservative]

So Willard goes unpunished for looting taxpayers???

BUT why should American taxpayers have to be forced to pay for Willard’s business incompetence and greed?

—

Workers were denied the severance pay and health insurance they’d been promised, and their pension benefits were cut..

What’s more, a FEDERAL GOVERNMENT insurance agency had to PONY UP $44 MILLION TO BAIL OUT the company’s underfunded pension plan.

Nevertheless, Bain profited on the deal, receiving $12 million on its $8 million initial investment and at least $4.5 million in consulting fees.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/01/bain-drip-drip-drip/

The Wall Street Journal analysis is ALSO devastating for Willard the Vulture/Lib at Bain.. (Google it)

Adding insult to injury, Bain would hide its profits in tax havens, not even paying the rate it was supposed to on the profits it made laying off workers.

Let’s see how the taxpayers feel about bailing out these companies’ pension funds and receiving no tax money back from Bain. Let’s let the people decide what they think of bailing out Romney.

Bottom line again: Why should American taxpayers have to be forced to pay for Willard’s business incompetence and greed?

[swampfox101]

Rush gonna get u......!