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N.H. Voters Explain How They Came to Understand Ron Paul
International Business Times ^ | January 13, 2012 | Maggie Astor

Posted on 01/13/2012 7:06:58 AM PST by Veritas_et_libertas

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To: Proud2BeRight

Yes he would close dozens of bases on foreign territory. Hooray for that. Let the us military defend us citizens. The the german military defend german citizens. Let the japanese defend themselves.

Having allies is one thing what we have are protectorates and de facto colonies.

Every empire in history has collapsed in on itself. Why would anyone think we would be any different? War is ineveitable. But what we have had for the last 20 years is a never ending war. Undeclared and unwinnable.

Bring our troops home and prepare for the coming global conflict that will come wether we have our troops posted over seas or not.


51 posted on 01/13/2012 8:28:32 AM PST by SpringtoLiberty (Liberty is on the march!)
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To: Proud2BeRight
Ron Paul's policies would leave the next President with nothing to use but nukes.

That demonstrates how enlightened Paul is ~ which is NOT VERY!

52 posted on 01/13/2012 8:29:28 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: SpringtoLiberty
Our Policies are falling bacuse of lack of follow through.

Going with Ron Paul would drastically increases that. Running away is not the answer.

And what does that have to do with you using a debunked it of propaganda.

53 posted on 01/13/2012 8:30:05 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Proud2BeRight

i don’t agree with your premise that Ron Paul’s policies would destroy the military.


54 posted on 01/13/2012 8:31:18 AM PST by running_dog_lackey
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To: ejonesie22

We’ve spent 10 years in afghanistan. We’ve been in the kingdom of saudi arabia for 20. We’ve been in seoul for 50. How much more follow thru would achive victory?


55 posted on 01/13/2012 8:36:00 AM PST by SpringtoLiberty (Liberty is on the march!)
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To: ejonesie22

We’ve spent 10 years in afghanistan. We’ve been in the kingdom of saudi arabia for 20. We’ve been in seoul for 50. How much more follow thru would achive victory?


56 posted on 01/13/2012 8:37:28 AM PST by SpringtoLiberty (Liberty is on the march!)
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To: SpringtoLiberty

“We’ve spent 10 years in afghanistan.”

About the same amount of time the Soviets spent there with the same results.


57 posted on 01/13/2012 8:44:29 AM PST by running_dog_lackey
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To: SpringtoLiberty
Have we been attacked again? Is South Korea still free? Are we still getting the vital oil we need for our economy to function?
58 posted on 01/13/2012 8:51:05 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: muawiyah

As good as a “mercy mission” sounds, armies are not designed for them.

On the other one, why were we in Bosnia? Arguably to save the Bosnian Muslims. And look at the thanks we got for doing that.

We perhaps ought not to go as far as Ron Paul advocates, but we could definitely stand to pull back a ways on our military adventurism and nation building.


59 posted on 01/13/2012 9:09:43 AM PST by B Knotts (Just another Tenther)
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To: running_dog_lackey

“i don’t agree with your premise that Ron Paul’s policies would destroy the military.”

So you agree with Ron Paul that “ALL” foreign US military bases should be closed and “ALL” military brought home? So you agree with allowing more terrorist nations to be able to get nukes? And you don’t believe that hiding all US military behind the US borders in total isolationism and having zip, zero nada ability to quickly respond, defend international interests and allies, supply and support the military when the Ron Paul world war begins is not destroying the military? Sad.

Do you also like that he praises traitors? Do you also agree with crackpot Paul that the US is to blame for 9/11?


60 posted on 01/13/2012 9:18:41 AM PST by Proud2BeRight
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To: SpringtoLiberty
“Yes he would close dozens of bases on foreign territory.”

That may be why you still defend Paul on the issue. Ron Paul has clearly and definitively stated that he would close “ALL” foreign bases. That, destroys the US militarily.

61 posted on 01/13/2012 9:21:48 AM PST by Proud2BeRight
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To: Proud2BeRight
I have been a Republican all my life, probably will die a Republican. I have been voting since 1974. The present GOP is not the GOP of yesteryear. Compared to the Red Threat that occupies the White House, these candidates seem conservative, but then, so wouldn’t Chairman Mao.
All war is attrition. We, the Republic, have been loosing a war of financial attrition for decades. We, the Republic are engaged in a war with those who govern us. Drastic measures are required to defeat this enemy in order to stop the bleeding that each of us are seeing in the depreciation of our savings, the constant onslaught of taxes, fees, and licenses. Each of them designed to remove our ability to live free.
If a slave is a person who works for no money, then a paid person who works with no money left for savings or investment is therefore a slave. In each case work is done, the slave is fed and roofed.
We have no choice but to vote for the candidate who will without hesitation stop the death of a thousand cuts.
No one elected president can close down the military during his terms in office. Won't happen, period.
As for the most dominant military force?
In today's world, the number of soldiers have nothing to do with being a military power. It's all about technology, manufacturing, and distribution. Bring the troops home, set them up defending our boarders to stop the invaders(illegal immigrants), while they spend their paychecks here bolstering our economy instead of someone elses.
If we need to declare war, then we do so, and like in the past, ramp it up again.
Reduction of all Federal Spending, and all taxes, fees, and other theft apparatus, is the only way to save our Republic.
All the candidates have faults and planks we don't like. But at this time we need an Anti Federal Reserve, spend slashing nut job. It's our only chance.
Vote Ron Paul, and plead, beg, and demand the others drop out of the race.
They are not interested in the Republic.
62 posted on 01/13/2012 9:33:49 AM PST by RavenLooneyToon
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To: RavenLooneyToon

“The heart of Republicanism IS Libertarianism”


63 posted on 01/13/2012 9:49:04 AM PST by Afronaut (It's 1984)
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To: RavenLooneyToon

So you have no problem with him praising traitors, publishing decades of racist vile loony newsletters, blaming the US for 9/11 and pandering to the Truther kook fringe, sympathizing with the Occupy parasites, participating on conspiracy nut shows, working closely with Soros and Barney Frank, supported by Democrats, foilhats, white supremacists, and the fringe of society, trashing of the US Constitution, dope pushing, promoting dangerous isolationism and gutting US defense and support Iranian and terrorist nukes?


64 posted on 01/13/2012 9:49:13 AM PST by Proud2BeRight
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To: Afronaut

The heart of liberalism IS libertarianism.


65 posted on 01/13/2012 9:51:37 AM PST by Proud2BeRight
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To: Proud2BeRight

-—...when the Ron Paul world war begins...-—

And who do you envision we will be at war with?


66 posted on 01/13/2012 9:51:59 AM PST by running_dog_lackey
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To: Proud2BeRight

I don’t like any of those things. Not one of them. But in a fight for survival where my choice of a tag team partner is between a loyal pussycat and a rabid tiger, I’ll take my chances with the rabid tiger.


67 posted on 01/13/2012 9:54:20 AM PST by RavenLooneyToon
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To: running_dog_lackey

“And who do you envision we will be at war with?”

You might have your answer when you answer my question that you have conveniently avoided: “If crackpot Ron Paul gutted the military and closed all foreign US bases, what nation or group would you like to see become the dominant world military power. There will be one, it just guaranteed, with crackpot Paul, it will not be the US.”


68 posted on 01/13/2012 10:04:03 AM PST by Proud2BeRight
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To: Proud2BeRight

I disagree. It may make it harder for us to act internationally but it does not “destroy” the military.

With our current interventionist policies I can see how this would be very damaging. However if we changed our militarist posture of constant warfare we wouldn’t need a military presence in 70 countires around the world.

Our milotary should protect its own citizens and economic interests.


69 posted on 01/13/2012 10:10:03 AM PST by SpringtoLiberty (Liberty is on the march!)
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To: mnehring

Different congregation, he prefers blowback.


70 posted on 01/13/2012 10:20:43 AM PST by SJackson (The Pilgrims¬óDoing the jobs Native Americans wouldn't do !)
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To: Afronaut
“The heart of Republicanism IS Libertarianism”

Ronald Reagan.
If only he could be cloned and mass produced.
I fear, we are a dying breed. The last spark of a once spectacular torch of freedom through fiscal production.
I truley have pity for our grand children, and shame that I was unable to stop the Red Threat.

71 posted on 01/13/2012 10:23:03 AM PST by RavenLooneyToon
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To: Proud2BeRight

All candidates in every election at any level have positions that people do not agree with and can take strong exception to. You have every right to dismiss aany candidate for any reason. And you certainly have brought up good points.

As for me I have taken a long hard look at all the available candidates as well as the current crisis facing our country and more specifically my individual liberty and economic freedom. I have determined that dr. Paul is the candidate to support.

The primary reason is his support for the most basic of humn freedoms and rights, the right to life being paramount. I also feel that his personal conduct is more in line with my values.

I do take exception to your portrayl of his trashing the constitution. I think his record in congress as well as his writings on the subject show that he has a very high regard for the constitution as originally envisioned and written. Perhaps our nation’s understanding of our founding principles have been so diluted that we don’t even know what we’re missing.

Also, if dr. Paul were to be elected president I would not give him carte blanche to enact every whim and fancy he has. I would hold him accountable to the constitution and reality just like I do pres. Obama.


72 posted on 01/13/2012 10:24:35 AM PST by SpringtoLiberty (Liberty is on the march!)
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To: Proud2BeRight

-—You might have your answer when you answer my question that you have conveniently avoided:-—

I didn’t avoid your question. I told you that I didn’t agree with the premise on which it was based. You made the statement that if Paul were elected President we would become enmeshed in a “Ron Paul world war”. I don’t agree. I seem to recall the same being said of Reagan.


73 posted on 01/13/2012 10:30:52 AM PST by running_dog_lackey
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To: ejonesie22

Yes we have. We’ve been in saudi arabia for decades. The men who attacked us were saudis.

Despite our huge presense in the south china sea red china is more powerful then ever in her history.

South korea has been attacked relentlessy for decades with no end in sight only escalation seems inevitable.

The record for america policeman of the world is not good. America is at her best when she is the city on the hill that others can flock to, not the hegemonic self righteous arbitrator of every regional conflict on the globe.

As for oil, we have the resources under our very feet. Responsible and vigorous exploitation of our own natuaral resources would be more than enough to power our economic engine for a century or more.

Maybe you can’t vote for dr. Paul. I understand that, but maybe we should all rethink the federal government’s role in world affairs and how that effects our own security.


74 posted on 01/13/2012 10:32:41 AM PST by SpringtoLiberty (Liberty is on the march!)
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To: running_dog_lackey

Denial of the facts does not answer a question.


75 posted on 01/13/2012 10:40:19 AM PST by Proud2BeRight
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To: SpringtoLiberty
Yes we have. We’ve been in saudi arabia for decades. The men who attacked us were saudis.

We do not occupy Saudi Arabia, indeed our foot print has been small. They have been very supportive of our bases there for two conflicts in Iraq now. They know where their bread is buttered. 20 men does not account for the entire country. they have their issues with Radicals as well

Despite our huge presense in the south china sea red china is more powerful then ever in her history.

Well that is a good reason to run away...

South korea has been attacked relentlessy for decades with no end in sight only escalation seems inevitable.

'Relentlessly"? The 2010 shelling was the word in decades. Not exactly "relentless". South is still free.

The record for america policeman of the world is not good. America is at her best when she is the city on the hill that others can flock to, not the hegemonic self righteous arbitrator of every regional conflict on the globe.

I am sure the Japanese and Germans would argue that among others. And the "hegemonic self righteous arbitrator" tripe sound like it came straight from Obama apology tour...

As for oil, we have the resources under our very feet. Responsible and vigorous exploitation of our own natuaral resources would be more than enough to power our economic engine for a century or more.

Well then drill...

Maybe you can’t vote for dr. Paul. I understand that, but maybe we should all rethink the federal government’s role in world affairs and how that effects our own security.

I have, and Paul's way is a non starter.

76 posted on 01/13/2012 11:57:59 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Afronaut
Yes, but it is not all of Republicanism. if it were, Reagan would have been a Libertarian.

He wasn't.

77 posted on 01/13/2012 11:58:00 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: ejonesie22

But look at the real results of our actions.

By any measure you can use, america is a weaker nation than she was 50 years ago. Militarliy, economicaly and especially socially. We have been on a half century slide because of our federal government taking more of our liberty and in engaing in more conflicts around the globe.

Our national capital, both material and human, has been bled away for no tangible results. We are a confused nation beset on all sides and from the inside. Ii can’t see how more engagement on the worls scene can help us. I can’t see how spending more teasure and more lives on the protection of people who hate us can make us stronger.

Now on your points.

Our resources in saudi arabia are far from minimal whe you count the air bases, army bases as well as naval forces in both gulfs. Add in our huge presence in the uae, quatar, and kuwait and you have an enomous military force used to protect a resource (oil) wich is in abaundance in our own borders and that of our closest ally canada.

And as to south korea, please read about the several sinkings of naval vessles over the years, sniper activity on the dmz, artillery shellings, sub launched special forces and extensive tunnel networks. Not to mention industrial and political espionage. I’m sure that like me you might know an army or marine vet that served in sk. Ask them how much of the nork activity is actually reported.

China is able to fuel her massive military buildup with what? American dollars. If we were to repair our industrial base with regulatory reform as dr. Paul reccomends we would stop the hemoraging of dollars in our trade deficit with china. Her economy would collapse and the so called chinese threat would diminish.


78 posted on 01/13/2012 12:21:01 PM PST by SpringtoLiberty (Liberty is on the march!)
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To: SpringtoLiberty

Sorry, Ron Paul will not fix any of that. Indeed his idea of retreating from the world stage will have the opposite effect. We still have a reasonable amount of respect despite the leftist with their friends such as OWS and Code Pink (both supporting the idea of Ron Paul)have done.

On the rest I stand on what I said.

PS, I know all I want to know about SK/NK thanks, SK is free despite the skirmished and they have not been “relentless”, indeed the past few years have been the first real up tick in decades.


79 posted on 01/13/2012 12:40:14 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: B Knotts
The reason we were in Bosnia is a bit more subtle than that. If you go back to the reasons for the entry of the United States into WWI you find that leaders of American ethnic groups from Central and Eastern Europe OPPOSED entry unless certain political outcomes happened.

They were:

(1) Division of Europe more or less along language boundaries ~ particularly the belligerants we were going to defeat (Austro-Hungary, German Empire, Ottoman Empire), and

(2) Creation of a new nation called Yugoslavia (or South Slav Land) made up of Serbo-Croation speaking people and their affiliates.

So, Wilson got the allied powers to agree and the American (Eastern European) ethnic leaders to agree to NOT OPPOSE THE DRAFT.

America's WWI draft was very important to the winning of the war ~ not that everybody agreed we should even enter it, but it was anticipated that a return to peace would be better and the American military presence was considered the sort of commitment we needed to make to bring the war to a halt.

In the end Yugoslavia was created, and with it Bosnia as an integral part of Yugoslavia. Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro and a couple of other Serbo-Croat speaking areas were dragged in from the old Austro-Hungary, and of that came the new nation that'd never before existed.

Unfinished Turkish (Ottoman) business in the region was swept under the rug. When Yugoslavia finally came undone and parts of Austria-Hungary obtained liberation as independent nations, Bosnia became a flash point in the conflict between Roman Catholic Croatia and Eastern Orthodox Serbia (et al).

Alas, I can only take you back to the days when the Ottomans were moving into the Balkans, but if you read up on the local histories of many of the towns in the region you'd find they had plenty of trouble in the time when the Eastern Empire was separated from the Western Empire by the Roman Emperior. In FYR, "Split" isn't just the name of a small city ~ it's an event!

As the successor state to "the Glory That Was Rome" it was our duty to set things straight.

Or, maybe it wasn't, but President Wilson bought into the idea of merging the Balkans (less Greece and Bulgaria) into a single state, so that kinda did it anyway.

We were not there to save the Bosnian Muslims. We were there to help unbundle the place in a more peaceful manner.

To a degree we were successful. Next, France, there are several smaller nations the French have not been entirely successful in absorbing. We need to split them off and return them to the world community of independent nations.

This moment where they are having incredible financial difficulties is a good time to strike.

80 posted on 01/13/2012 1:00:20 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: ejonesie22

I’m curious as to who you will be voting for in your primary.


81 posted on 01/13/2012 1:06:52 PM PST by SpringtoLiberty (Liberty is on the march!)
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To: SpringtoLiberty
So far no one. I was with Cain. I am leaning Gingrich but there are no really top choices.
82 posted on 01/13/2012 3:00:50 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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Slap those Dems!




83 posted on 01/13/2012 3:09:49 PM PST by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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To: muawiyah

I will certainly agree that the mess in the Balkans goes back at least to the dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman emprires.

But if you start looking at that (and the aftermath of the Spanish-American War before that), you see the beginnings of our current foreign policy philosophy. And, one can certain argue that involving the U.S. in the Great War was wrongheaded. It did advance the cause of American influence in Europe, but I’m not certain that was such a good thing.


84 posted on 01/13/2012 8:45:39 PM PST by B Knotts (Just another Tenther)
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To: B Knotts

If you were a Democrat ward healer in Chicago you would still be overjoyed ~ or Cleveland even!


85 posted on 01/14/2012 5:44:36 AM PST by muawiyah
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