Skip to comments.Take it from Allen West on Marine urination flap: ‘War is hell’
Posted on 01/17/2012 9:37:41 AM PST by SmileRight
The media, along with the White House and its talking dogs, Leon Panetta and Hillary Clinton, have joined the usual ragtag terrorists in the Muslim camp in condemning our troops employed by our government to kill the Taliban for allegedly urinating on Taliban bodies. I have a simple question, because I'm confused by Obama's stance: Which is more inhumane, killing someone or urinating on him? I'm not a legal expert, but I'm sure the penalty in Washington, D.C., for killing a person is more severe than just peeing on that person. Whatever the penalty is for urinating on someone in America, thats how the Marines should pay in this escapade.
I've just about had it with hypocrites who demand we fight a war according to the rules laid out...
(Excerpt) Read more at bizpacreview.com ...
A: I have little sympathy for men who live their lives wiping their anuses with their bare hands after bowel movements, and who view as the pinnacle of human pleasure inserting their genitals and depositing their semen into the feces-laden rectums of boys and other men, who suddenly get squeamish about dead bodies being sprinkled with a bit of urine - which is sterile by the way. Those dead Taliban were probably the cleanest they had ever been in their adult lives after being showered with the righteous tinkles of those Marines. Ooh-rah. That is all. Carry on.
Marines recruit America's best: young men and women who have strong values, the determination to rise to any challenge, and a sense of service. Then we build on that foundation to create Marine character that serves our nation, and your son or daughter, for life.
You will be able to see Marine character in your son or daughter immediately after Recruit Training or Officer Candidates School. He or she will have learned teamwork, responsibility, determination and discipline. They will be poised, respectful and proud of their accomplishments.
After your Marine's first billet or deployment, you will see his maturity, perspective and leadership continue to develop. Your Marine will know what it means to pledge himself to a greater purpose.
These qualities will not only bring pride to your family now, but will enable your Marine to better lead his or her own family, community and work colleagues in the future. For the rest of your Marine's life, he or she will be the man or woman you raised them to be: a self-sufficient, capable, determined American.
Who the hell recruited and trained these "Marines," I wonder?
Not only IS war hell, it SHOULD BE hell!
The fatuous notion that war can be fought with “sugical precision” and limited collateral damage only increases the liklihood that war will be waged. Would the Taliban et.al. be so eager to take on American troops if they knew the cost would be considerably more than wet unifoms?
Call me warped and morally bankrupt but isn’t there Article 15 non judicial proceedings in the military for invasion of privacy for videoing personnel relieving themselves?
But a friggin’ MUZZIE soldier shoots up Ft. Hood and our muzzie president tells us not to come to any conclusions.
There is also the slightly more significant matter of the First Geneva Convention, which requires enemy dead be "honourably interred" according to the rites of their religion (Article 17), as well as post-engagement search for enemy dead to prevent their despoilment (Article 15).
In San Francisco, they pay people to do this. The Marines did it without charge. They should be receiving the humanitarian medal.
President Obama’s Secretary of State Hillary Clinton cheered and laughed when a POW named Gaddaffi was murdered after capture and his corpse was defiled by militant Islamists.
This administration is not about prosecuting war crimes or respecting the dignity of all people, even our enemy. They are about trashing this nation and supporting Islamists.
My husband asked one of our employees (National Guard) who just returned from 3 deployments to Iraq & Afghanistan about this incident. John just said something to the effect that, “You won’t believe what the Marines are asked to do day after day in the field. They are under incredible pressure constantly. Don’t judge.”
Our guy is Army, so for him to be so respectful of the Marines says something to me.
The press (Daily Mirror I think) ran staged photos of a British soldier urinating on a supposed Iraqi POW. The whole thing was a staged hoax by a traitor using equipment that was not even deployed.
Additionally, in the Abu Ghraib photo case, at least one of the participants was a homosexual (a lesbian who posed for photos with a dead body giving a thumbs up sign and a shiny smile). Recall another homosexual who sabotaged the US military’s efforts by stealing tens of thousands of documents with the stated reason that he disliked the military’s stance on homosexuality.
Some ask “who would throw away a career this way”? Ask Sgt. Akbar who threw a grenade into an officer's tent in Iraq. Ask the guy who shot up the military base in America.
Bad people do bad things disguised as the good guys.
And my tagline points out the administration's hypocrisy
The taliban are not combatants under the Geneva Accords nor do they recognize them, unless it benefits their propaganda cause. Article 17 does not apply to them so piss on them, both figuratively and literally.
To me, that's kind of like asking which is more justifiable, killing an armed robber in the commission of a crime, or dropping your pants and taking a dump on his grave the following week? That said, I'd care more if these combatants were part of a proper enemy army who were just doing their duty to their country, rather than the filthy band of criminals, fanatics and bandits that the Taliban are....
I know what those Marines were thinking, as I once was one. That video was intended for the Taliban to see, and those Marines’ intention was to deeply offend their enemy and dare them to do anything about it. In other words, to piss their enemy off and make them do something stupid.
But, these Marines failed to recognize who their enemy really is, and they’re about to find out. By the time the politically correct folks now running this country get through punishing them, they’ll wish they had joined hands with the Taliban and sang “Kum-Ba-Ya” with them instead of killing them...and pissing on them.
Once again our country is at war, and once again the Democrat Party has sided with the enemy.
Honor guides Marines to exemplify the ultimate in ethical and moral behavior; to never lie cheat or steal; to abide by an uncompromising code of integrity; respect human dignity; and respect others. The quality of maturity, dedication, trust and dependability commit Marines to act responsibly; to be accountable for their actions; to fulfill their obligations; and to hold others accountable for their actions.
Does the fact that the Taliban are not lawful combatants under Geneva mean that wounded Taliban can have their fingernails pulled out by US Marines, or female enemy combatants can be gang-raped by US Marines, since you're suggesting that Article 12 doesn't apply to them?
I'm not concerned with the damp dead Taliban here, I'm concerned with the discredit and dishonor that these men have brought upon the Brotherhood of Marines and the generations upon generations of Marines who preceded them.
They need to stand in front of R. Lee Ermey and answer the question, "WHERE IS YOUR HONOR, MAGGOTS???"
If you were once a Marine, then you know that it’s possible to kill, crush, and destroy your enemy while still retaining your own HONOR, right?
I will NOT jump on the artificial bandwagon of condemnation of these Marines. After 11 years of military engagement in Afghanistan, and almost 9 years in Iraq, where our men and women of the U.S. Armed Forces have been asked to endure things most Americans only can vaguely imagine, I will not join in on the media feeding frenzy. When our media mildly yawned at the beheading of Nick Berg and others (truly, they had their heads hacked off with a less than sharp blade), as well as ho-humed the torure, burning, and displaying of the burnt bodies of those contractors, while feigning indignation and outrage from Abu Graib, and now this? No thanks. At worse these Marines should only receive article 15’s.
The three Corps Values: honor, courage, commitment. They make up the bedrock of the character of each individual Marine. They are the foundation of his Corps. These three values, handed down from generation to generation, have made U.S. Marines the Warrior Elite. The U.S. Marine Corps: the most respected and revered fighting force on earth.
So you're basically telling me that this "honor" and "character" and "warrior elite" business is just a bunch of bullsh!t that they feed us civilians in order to lure us into the recruiting offices?
Thanks for the clarification.
I have a vivid and indelible snapshot in my head of the charred, mutilitated remains of an American, dragged through the dust and finally strung up on a bridge.
Did I imagine that?
Have YOU walked in the shoes of these Marines? Have you lost friends to those rag heads they killed? Have you witnessed the brutality they have inflicted upon their own people, let alone our soldiers? Let me know when you return from multiple tours of duty in a combat zone and have faced what they faced and then we’ll talk about your faux outrage. on 1/2/12 a Petty officer from a community near my home town was killed while collecting evidence of an IED explosion. He was killed from a manually detination of an IED. He was 25, and last year received the Outstanding Sailor of the Year award. My son has lost friends in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He saw them get killed. My wife and I spent three days in May 2007 awaiting word on the 7 soldiers from the 10th Mountain Division and one Iraqi interpreter who were ambushed - five killed outright, and three taken hostage. You see, our son was a 10th Mountain soldier with that combat brigade, and we didn’t know for three days whether it might have been him. One of the three who were taken hostage has still not been found. You will NOT find any sympathy for those Taliban or Iraqi rag heads from this quarter.
The Taliban don’t need or deserve sympathy, they’re dead or soon will be. Good riddance. Eff ‘em.
But would you be proud of your son if he was one of the Marines in this video? Would you show it around to your friends and neighbors?
Or would you be ashamed of how he represented himself and his Corps by his actions in desecrating a corpse, regardless of how superficially understandable those actions were?
Are you seriously asking if I would be less proud of my son, knowing that he IS responsible for taking life while in combat in Iraq, were he to have pissed on the dead bodies? So, I should be ashamed were it that he pissed on the dead, but proud that he killed them in the first place? That is your question?
Superficial to someone who has not walked in the boots of these Marines.
The four dumb Marines (who records these things?) urinating on dead Taliban displayed what the should be considered courageous restraint when forced to operate under rules of engagement the enemy exploits to debilitate our troops. When attacking a stronghold or fighting an ambush, staff from remote offices deny artillery and air support critical to minimize casualties and bring victory. Engaged units cannot call illumination rounds to reveal enemy firing positions. Often troops may not chamber a round in their weapons. Now even farting around the Afghans calls for a reprimand. The action we considered reprehensible, enabled them to forget momentarily that they operate under constraints ensuring probable death or crippling for one of them within a week.
Overall the Pentagon and Administration ignore Articles 28 and 29 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, which says Protected Persons within the enemys physical control, cannot be used to render certain points and areas immune from military operations. Instead our troops serve an effeminate political agenda, and suffer the fantasy of courageous restraint, which cripples their ability to win. They also perceive battlefield victories will be compromised away for negotiations with the Taliban.
The character of the Taliban can most often be discovered by consulting Article 13 of the First and Second Geneva Conventions and Article 3 of the Fourth Convention. They are not the armed forces, militias, volunteer corps, insurgents, or freedom fighters of any country or authority. They are not an organized resistance movement carrying arms openly and have no distinctive identifier. Most often they fight for control focusing on the murder and torture of people defined as Protected Persons by the Conventions. The Taliban seldom if ever follow the customs of war. There is no basis to consider these human abominations prisoners of war.
I didnt serve in the infantry, and I tell sea stories and never war stories. However, I will say sailors of the Brown Water Navy had some interesting ways of handling their trophies, which helped to relieve the tension of realizing they had a better chance of returning home in a bag or on a stretcher than on a freedom bird. Good officers learned how to manage the behaviors, which were certain to arise, in a way sailors could be retained for combat, retain their sense of honor, and arrive at a new normal.
Isnt this a wonderful country where defecating on the American flag can become a career enhancement, and urinating on a dead enemy can result in prison?
reprimand the soldiers and move on. Unless you have fought in a brutal war keep your mouth shut . . . completely shut!
Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.), a former Army lieutenant colonel, sends THE
WEEKLY STANDARD an email commenting on the Marines’ video , and has
given us permission to publish it.
I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our
Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous
indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies
dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and
condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their
bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.
All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to
chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne
Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq?
The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field
grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General
Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them
in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally
apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing
the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.
As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban,
shut your mouth, war is hell.
If you can’t see the difference between killing an enemy in combat and desecrating a corpse, then I guess there’s not much more to discuss.
I see the hypocrisy of feigning outrage at an incident like this and being silent about the real atrocities committed by people for whom brutality is a religious requirement. So, yes, there is nothing more for us to discuss regarding this issue.
In May 2007 8 soldiers (7 U.S., one Iraqi interpreter) were ambushed south of Baghdad, Iraq. Five were killed outright (including the interpreter), while three were taken hostage. The U.S. soldiers were members of the 3rd BCT/10th Mountain Division. The Ambush was first reported on a Friday here in the U.S. My wife and I spent the next two days anxiously looking out our front window on our house, hoping against hope that no one would arrive with news that our son was either dead or one of the captured. When we learned that it was not him, or members of his platoon, we felt both relief and guilt. To this day only two of the three soldiers taken hostage were found - tortured to death, mutilated beyond recognition. DO NOT ask me to feel bad about the dead Taliban being pissed upon. The actions were stupid, yes. I completely agree with Col. West in his recommendations.
Who’s being silent about the atrocities of soulless jackals like the Taliban except the media? I’m certainly not.
And again, what do the actions of soulless jackals have to do with the honorable conduct of United States Marines? We’re not talking about the actions of soulless jackals in this thread, we’re talking about the actions of men who earned the title of United States Marine.
Will you at least agree with Col. West that their actions were wrong and that they should be punished?
I’m not asking you to feel bad about dead Taliban being pissed on. I’m asking you to feel bad about US Marines dishonoring themselves in front of the entire world.
So, just how did you vent that outrage at the atrocities committed by members of the Taliban, Al Queda, Iraqi insurgents, members of Hammas, The Muslim Brotherhood, the PLO, etc, etc, etc??? Have you called for their being placed on trial? Have you contacted your local Mosque and complained? Were you part of a huge mob out carrying protest signs? No? We (meaning the whole of the U.S.) sent our sons, daughters, fathers, mothers, nephews, nieces, etc, etc, into brutal conditions, in which they were often constrained by ridicules rules of engagement, to witness the death, slaughter, mayhem, and barbarity committed by a cult of death. WE at home have rarely made any noise about the barbarity of these cult worshipers. But, WE are quick to judge any member of our own who commit such atrocities as taking pictures of prisoners with underwear on their heads or pissing on dead bodies.
Are YOU going to AT LEAST agree with Col. West that if you haven't been shot at by the Taliban, then Shut UP!!!
NO! Let me emphatically state in no uncertain terms - HELL NO! I will not feel badly about the actions taken by these few Marines. I will not denigrate them for these actions. I have NOT been in their boots. I have NO right to sit in judgement when I have NOT been where they have been. No American sitting at home in the comfort of their own home, and who has not faced what these men have faced has ANY RIGHT to denigrate them. It is not up to the public to pass judgement. It is a military matter, and should be handled by the superiors of these Marines. The public need not be involved. CRAP! I am very thankful that we didn't behave this way during WWII. If we had - if we were so controlled by our emotions as created by the liberal media of today, we would have lost WWII and all been either speaking German, Japanese, or sitting in someone's home as a lamp shade. Too many people in this country need to grow a pair. War is hell, and it's no place for mamby pamby crybaby peepants.
The pilot of this plane was doing his level best to kill as many US Marines and sailors as possible:
He wound up killing no one but himself, and only managed to put a small dent in the side of the USS Missouri:
His name was Setsuo Ishino. His body was recovered from the wreckage of his airplane by the sailors he had just tried to kill, and he was buried at sea with full military honors beneath a Japanese flag improvised by the Missouri sailors.
Chaplain Roland Faulk of the USS Missouri once said "A dead Jap is no longer an enemy."
And here's another example from WW-II:
Lt Colonel Tim Collins, of the 1st Battalion Royal Irish Regiment, addressed his troops thus:
"Wipe them out if that is what they choose. But if you are ferocious in battle, remember to be magnanimous in victory.
"If you harm the regiment or its history by overenthusiasm in killing or in cowardice, know it is your family who will suffer.
"You will be shunned unless your conduct is of the highest, for your deeds will follow you down through history. We will bring shame on neither our uniform or our nation."
The skull is real, a dead Jap....
If you were on fire I wouldn’t even piss on you to put it out.
Why, because I agree with Col. West that what these men did was wrong and that they should be punished?
No, it's because I don't like you.
Your being very disengenuous when you try and ascert that Col. West is calling for the punishment of these men. Yes, Col. West stated they should be held accountable - through the use of Article 15 nonjudicial punishment. There would be no court. There would be no incarceration. There could be a monetary cost (loss in rank). The harshest aspect of the Article 15 would be to their continued enlistment in the Corp. Hardly the level of punishment the media and liberal flamers in this country would demand. Nor, based upon your apparent position, would this be sufficient to you.
I'm not sure that your understanding my position on this, considering that you keep pinging me. I WILL NOT DENIGRATE THESE MEN OVER THIS! Is this clear enough for you? Any further attempts on your part to change my mind will also result in futility.
Your attempts to equate the Japanese uniformed soldier with these muzzie rag headed cultist who are not members of a state completely fall short of the mark.
Don't you get it? It's not about who the dead bodies were when they were alive. It's about who these US Marines are, about their character and their honor.
As LTC Collins said, their deeds will follow them down through history, and I don't envy them that. Their grandchildren's grandchildren will see that video, and wonder what kind of men they were.
Apparently, you don't. I'm finding it hard to understand why you are being so obtuse. I'M not going to denegrate these men. They do not need me to judge them. Especially when there are people such as you in the world who are doing so. Now, please go back into your glass house and stop trying to get me to change my opinion. It's not going to happen.
The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.
Those three Marines are 10 times the person you are. I would be proud to be seen with them and to know them. They have more guts and honer in the little finger than you do in your entire sad carcass.
If they have honor, then why are they ignoring their orders and the law by filming themselves pissing on dead bodies? It’s not automatically honorable conduct, just because they claim the title of US Marines. If they have so much honor in their little fingers, then where the hell was it shown in the video?
Article 134: “... all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, ...”