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Mitt Romney Pressured Single Mother To Give Up Baby, Book Says
Little green footballs ^ | Jan 11, 2012 | Researchok

Posted on 01/17/2012 10:08:09 PM PST by ynotjjr

As Mitt Romney spends the next leg of his campaign courting evangelical voters in South Carolina, his Mormon faith is expected to re-emerge as a subject of serious scrutiny. But concerns won’t belong exclusively to theologically suspicious Baptists: a newly revealed episode from the candidate’s time as a lay leader in the LDS church could raise eyebrows among women’s advocates.

While serving as bishop of a Mormon congregation near Boston in the early 80’s, Romney once threatened to excommunicate a young single mother if she did not give her soon-to-be-born son up for adoption, according to a passage from a forthcoming book, “The Real Romney.” excerpted this week in Vanity Fair.

The anecdote, which Romney has disputed, sheds new light on a compelling part of the candidate’s religious life—one that serves, politically, as a double-edged sword. On one hand Romney’s time spent as a minister of his faith gave him the unique opportunity of serving low-income Boston neighborhoods, undercutting the narrative that he’s an out-of-touch millionaire. On the other, his role as a representative of the church sometimes put him in a position of standing up for politically unsavory teachings.

Peggie Hayes had converted to Mormonism as a teenage along with her family, and told the book’s authors, Boston Globe reporters Michael Kranish and Scott Helman, that for a long time she found comfort in the faith’s teachings. After returning to the congregation as a 23-year-old divorced single mother, she soon got pregnant with a second child. Knowing she was in need of financial assistance, the Romneys arranged for her to do odd jobs for members of the congregation.

“Mitt was really good to us,” Hayes told the authors. “He did a lot for us.”

But while Hayes considered Romney a friend, he was also her bishop—which meant it was his job to pass along sometimes-harsh church counsel. The tension between the two relationships came to the forefront one day when he came over to her apartment, and encouraged her to turn her son over to the church’s adoption agency when he was born. (The church’s position is that if a happy marriage between parents of a newborn seems unlikely, adoption is preferable to single parenting.)

Hayes was offended by the suggestion, and told Romney she would never give up her son. But, according to Hayes, Romney told her, “Well, this is what the church wants you to do, and if you don’t, then you could be excommunicated for failing to follow the leadership of the church.”

Though she was defiant, the authors write, “In that moment, she also felt intimidated. Here was Romney, who held great power as her church leader and was the head of a wealthy, prominent Belmont family, sitting in her gritty apartment making grave demands.”


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bishopromney; bow2romney; bowb4romney; mittromney; mormonchurch; rnme4romney; romney2decide4u; romneybringsdeath; romneycare; romneydeathpanels
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Just saw this mentioned of Charley Rose, PBS. Mitt is toast. This will not go over well with women, heck, it's not going over well with me. "Papa don't preach, I'm keepin' my baby!"
1 posted on 01/17/2012 10:08:22 PM PST by ynotjjr
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To: ynotjjr

Romney has already admitted he called Utah to decide
events in Massachusetts under his thumb.

Stakepresident Bishop Romney knows where the power
over his shapeshifting facade does lie.


2 posted on 01/17/2012 10:12:36 PM PST by Diogenesis ("Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. " Pres. Ronald Reagan)
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To: ynotjjr

Just like with McCain..as soon as Romney is the nominee..all kinds of things will come out and his religion will become a major major issue with the MSM. Every weird story about Mormons will be given a special 30 minutes.
In a way he is the Manchurian Candidate..nominated by the MSM so that they then can kill him off and keep their own man in power.


3 posted on 01/17/2012 10:14:14 PM PST by Oldexpat
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To: ynotjjr
Really ? Is this the best they can do ? Sounds like she kept the baby so wheres the story ?

More crack from the media crack heads. Whats really wrong with Mitt wont come from them..

4 posted on 01/17/2012 10:19:32 PM PST by Nonstatist
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To: ynotjjr
“In that moment, she also felt intimidated. Here was Romney, who held great power as her church leader and was the head of a wealthy, prominent Belmont family, sitting in her gritty apartment making grave demands.”

I'm confused, she was divorced and then became pregnant? What the hell did she expect would come of having one child and then another out of wedlock? Of course adoption makes sense. She was intimidated by the frankness and having to confront the situation on adult terms.

5 posted on 01/17/2012 10:23:27 PM PST by newzjunkey (Imbecilic early voters doom us all.)
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To: Oldexpat

That’s why the msm makes an issue if anyone else makes an issue out of his Mormonism. It’s their baby when the time comes.


6 posted on 01/17/2012 10:24:12 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: ynotjjr; All
You need to get a grip.

She had one child already. And divorced. She was foolish enough to engage in behavior that resulted in another pregnancy. Keeping the second child in her circumstance is a childish and selfish act, not in the newborn's best interest. As faith leader who had helped her considerably by her own admission, Romney expressed the adult viewpoint embraced by their church. She betrayed the Romney's kindness by getting herself pregnant again. If it doesn't go over well with "women" they have no business having children or casting votes because they lack the capacity for adult thought and are trapped in perpetual adolescence.

7 posted on 01/17/2012 10:32:54 PM PST by newzjunkey (Imbecilic early voters doom us all.)
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To: newzjunkey

I don’t want some SOB so called bishop coming to MY house in his magic underwear and telling me that he and his “church” wants me to give up my baby. What kind of cult is that? I’d like to hear him explain that. Did he claim his mileage on that one? Let’s see his tax returns for the last 10 years.


8 posted on 01/17/2012 10:33:11 PM PST by ynotjjr (Gingrich/Rubio 2012 It's called the Constitution. Learn it, live it, love it!)
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To: ynotjjr

I have a Mormon friend (since High School) who is going through something similar. She is divorced twice, 4 kids. Rather than have an abortion when she got pregnant out of wedlock (to cover up her sin), she decided to have the baby and keep it.

She is now being excommunicated by the Mormon church for her decision.


9 posted on 01/17/2012 10:37:14 PM PST by reaganaut (If Romney is a conservative then I'm the frickin Angel Moroni.)
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To: ynotjjr

Excuse me, but NOBODY has the right to tell a woman to give her child up for adoption. It doesn’t matter if it is something her church wants or not. She got pregnant and didn’t kill it. Why doesn’t the Morman church support LIFE??? I am a Catholic and have heard many many people say how awful the church is in their views, but they would not kick someone out because the decided to keep their own child.

Yes, the woman made bad choices, but wants to own up to them and take care of her responsibilities. She didn’t ask for a handout, she asked for work to earn her way.

I can’t believe some of the comments some of you have made, it makes me sick.....


10 posted on 01/17/2012 10:52:08 PM PST by mrsadams
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To: Nonstatist
Really ? Is this the best they can do ? Sounds like she kept the baby so wheres the story ?

You don't have a problem with this?
11 posted on 01/17/2012 10:59:17 PM PST by SoConPubbie
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To: newzjunkey
She was intimidated by the frankness and having to confront the situation on adult terms.

What part of being threatened with excommunication if you do not give up your baby are you finding correct in a biblical sense?
12 posted on 01/17/2012 11:00:58 PM PST by SoConPubbie
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To: newzjunkey
I'm confused, she was divorced and then became pregnant? What the hell did she expect would come of having one child and then another out of wedlock? Of course adoption makes sense. She was intimidated by the frankness and having to confront the situation on adult terms.

WTHe*L

She was 23, divorced with one child - then got pregnant.

She wanted to keep her child but was being pressured - in her home - by her leading spiritual leader - to give up her child or lose her church membership, the one thing that should have been there for her.

Give her advice, maybe. Discuss possibilities, yes. But to pressure her to give up her own child?

Believe it or not, mothers have b een able to bring up children alone. Maybe they couldn't give them as much, materially, but they could give them the love with that silver thread intact from mother to child - the kind of love NO ONE else can, if the mother truly loves the child.

Bottom line, in this case, none of us were there - none of know the woman, none of us have a right to judge HER.

Romney, on the other hand...

And do we know the story is even true? If so, did he go to her home alone? If so, that is strictly against church policy. If it's true and he did go alone - why?

13 posted on 01/17/2012 11:04:49 PM PST by maine-iac7 (A prudent man foreseeth the evil,... but the simple pass on, and are punished. Prov 23:3 KJV)
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To: mrsadams

For the LDS it is all about controling their membership. They will spout things like they believe in ‘free agency’ but in reality the LDS church keeps tight reign on their membership. This was just one more area of spiritual blackmail.

And the LDS are not nearly as pro-life as people think. Their own Church Handbook of Instructions says abortion is permitted as long as it is prayerfully considered (ie you have a ‘burning in your bosom’ that they believe is personal revelation telling you it is ok).

People assume they are pro-life because they have a lot of kids, but it is more of a reflection of their theology. The LDS believe that we were all ‘spirit children’ of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother - created through Celestial sex (even Jesus and Lucifer) and that we have to come to this earth and gain a body in order to ‘progress’ further and become Gods ourselves. They have no statement on when the soul enters the body and several LDS I know do not believe life begins at conception.

and that because they have the ‘true’ gospel and are members of the ONLY true church, it is their responsibility to have as many children in order to provide bodies for these spirit children and the best of them are born into Mormon households. Having children is a duty.

I can source all of this and see my tagline. I used to be Mormon.


14 posted on 01/17/2012 11:06:36 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: reaganaut

wow. I listened to some Mormons call into a radio show last weeks, and they swore that they were just as Christian as mainstream Christian churches. Slide like anything but. Are they just outright lying, or decieved at lower levels?


15 posted on 01/17/2012 11:25:56 PM PST by catbertz (Easter egg...I wants it.)
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To: Oldexpat

Yup. That’s why the media — assisted by their operatives like Gloria Allred — had to build up and then smear Cain and Perry right quick. They were unknown quantities who might have posed a problem for Obama. Their ammo for Romney has been carefully assembled and is just waiting for the day after the convention.


16 posted on 01/17/2012 11:27:39 PM PST by JennysCool (My hypocrisy goes only so far)
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To: ynotjjr
I don’t want some SOB so called bishop coming to MY house in his magic underwear and telling me that he and his “church” wants me to give up my baby. What kind of cult is that? I’d like to hear him explain that. Did he claim his mileage on that one? Let’s see his tax returns for the last 10 years.

It's a free country. Want to join my association, then follow the rules. You don't like the rules, then leave. Self centered views like yours belong with the occupy Wall Street crowd. No one is forcing you to be a member of hte "cult."

17 posted on 01/17/2012 11:32:10 PM PST by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The meek shall not inherit the Earth)
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts

You need to work on your argument. That sh*t may fly in Massachusetts but I don’t think that will fly in Free America. Just guessing. I don’t hang around with the Wall Street crowd, I’ll just have to take your word for it.


18 posted on 01/17/2012 11:46:58 PM PST by ynotjjr (Gingrich/Rubio 2012 It's called the Constitution. Learn it, live it, love it!)
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To: Diogenesis

Romney has already admitted he called Utah to decide
events in Massachusetts under his thumb.
___________________________________

details and source please

Just so we have it on record...

:)


19 posted on 01/18/2012 12:16:14 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: ynotjjr

Who was the father of the child? You’d think that might be important to know.


20 posted on 01/18/2012 5:31:15 AM PST by SeaHawkFan
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To: mrsadams
Why doesn’t the Morman church support LIFE???

So, here we are in a thread discussion adoption, and you somehow parse that into mormons not supporting life? Wow.

21 posted on 01/18/2012 5:31:57 AM PST by T. P. Pole
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To: ynotjjr
I am reminded of my parents, who were raised in a time where real racism existed. It didn't matter what the situation was, but it the person was black or mexican they would curl up their lip and bare their teeth, and I expected them to spit one of these days. Thankfully I understood where they came from, observed that it was wrong, and was able to remove most of that racism from my generation.

I see some of that in this story and the comments following. The hatred of Romney and his mormonism is so strong that this story is presented as a major negative. The headline suggests something much worse than the actual fact. With so many claiming that Romney is an anti-life baby killer, this article seems to suggest that really isn't the case (at least at the time of this story).

I would appear to me that this is one point on the anti-abortion side for Romney. Alas, there are a lot of points on the other side for him, too. But only the folks looking for something to hate see this story as a bad thing.

22 posted on 01/18/2012 5:39:11 AM PST by T. P. Pole
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To: ynotjjr
After returning to the congregation as a 23-year-old divorced single mother, she soon got pregnant with a second child. Knowing she was in need of financial assistance, the Romneys arranged for her to do odd jobs for members of the congregation.

1) She returns to the congregation as a single mom.

2) Not making it financially as a single mom, she depends on the church to help her make ends meet.

3) She gets pregnant out of wedlock, which means her financial dependency would increase, as she would be even less able to work while caring for a baby.

4) Mitt tells her that she cannot expect the church to subsidize her bad choices any further. She cannot support a new baby. She should give it up for adoption.

If I was in Mitt's position, I would have done the same. Failure to enforce expecting responsibility will doom any group.

23 posted on 01/18/2012 6:47:08 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.)
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To: ynotjjr
I don’t want some SOB so called bishop coming to MY house in his magic underwear and telling me that he and his “church” wants me to give up my baby. What kind of cult is that?

He wasn't forcing her to give up the baby. He was just telling her that the church membership had been helping support her, she betrayed that support by getting pregnant out of wedlock. If she want's to keep the baby, don't expect any more support from the church.

In other words, you can have as many babies as you want, but should not expect others to pay for your choices.

24 posted on 01/18/2012 6:53:10 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.)
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To: ynotjjr

There are two things the law should for the child of a single mother — to get married, or to have the child adopted.

Single motherhood is a criminal activity. As most crimes left unchecked do, social tolerance for single motherhood bears serious and continuing harm for a society. It is an incredibly corrosive thing.

Historically, single motherhood has been a crime under common and statute law. There is good reason why it is a crime.

It is NOT a good thing in our times that single motherhood is tolerated, supported, even celebrated.

Look at how this very article raises up the cult of the victim, victimology, of single motherhood. Good and historically-knowledgeable men and women who cross this cult are branded as heretics who must be driven out of the society. That is like banning fire alarms and fire departments because the alarms and sirens are just so bothersome and irritating.


25 posted on 01/18/2012 6:56:38 AM PST by bvw
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To: bvw
There are two things the law should for the child of a single mother

If Obama pushing this angle and attaches it to Romney, HE IS DONE. Good grief, what next, an only 1 child policy like China?

26 posted on 01/18/2012 6:59:08 AM PST by LuvFreeRepublic
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To: LuvFreeRepublic
Good grief ...

You do know that historically single motherhood has been a crime, right? Do you know what that crime is called, and WHY it was a crime? If you do not know these things it would be wise for you to go and learn them.

Do YOU want children to be poor, sick, deprived of proper nurture? What other foolish hysterical reactions do you have to the basic social history of mankind?

27 posted on 01/18/2012 7:04:53 AM PST by bvw
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To: bvw
The spin Obama will use on Mitt is: No abortions, No single moms, No sex without marriage FOR WOMEN. THIS WILL NOT FLY.

You cannot legislate morality.

Nothing you wrote will be a winnable argument with the general election voters.

28 posted on 01/18/2012 7:12:06 AM PST by LuvFreeRepublic
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To: LuvFreeRepublic

(1) Do you know that single motherhood has been a crime for hundreds of years and more, back to English Common Law, and in our own common law and statute law until only very recently, right? Do you know what that crime is called, and WHY it was a crime?

(2) Why let Obama determine HOW and WHAT our campaign messages are? Is Obama our King?

(3) Please know that the phrase “You cannot legislate morality” is (a) false, (b) a strawman for avoiding needed discussions of morality, and (c) a propaganda motto of those forces who would destroy our society in order to raise up some imagined secular utopia. It is a motto of the pro-abortion movement, of the Marxists, the social deconstructionists, the anarcho-liberatians, the sexual libertines. It is utterly false.

ALL legislation and law is based in morality. All law is a form of moral code. A moral society is a law-abiding society, and an immoral society devolves into chaos and tyranny, into both lawlessness and tyranny at the same time.

Without a respect for, an appreciation and understanding of morals and how good laws are moral laws, how some parts morality must become parts of law in any viable culture, a society that is tolerates immorality and mocks morality always evolves a huge burden of inscrutable and invasive laws that dictate EVERY aspect of life, and in ever contradictory ways. Everything, every action, becomes illegal if the law were to be completely enforced. The laws then come to be enforced by whim of the enforcer, and are applied harshly. A multitude of petty tyrants arise. No one is safe, no one is free.

Only morality and a regard for that morality both in the written law and in the social custom keep a society free, and the people within that society safe.


29 posted on 01/18/2012 8:30:18 AM PST by bvw
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To: SoConPubbie
You don't have a problem with this

No. Whats wrong with being ex-communicated? She can go find anoither church willing to subsidize her.

30 posted on 01/18/2012 9:13:46 AM PST by Nonstatist
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To: LuvFreeRepublic
You cannot legislate morality.

Utterly false. Morality is legislated every day. What IS the law but enforced morality? What are the laws about theft and robbery, but a codification of "Thou shall not steal"? What about legislation about "hate crimes", discouraging smoking in public, etc, etc?

The proper venue for legislation is to discourage actions which would tend to be harmful to society. Single motherhood is one of THE MOST DESTRUCTIVE activities to a modern society.

31 posted on 01/18/2012 9:54:32 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.)
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To: maine-iac7

And do we know the story is even true? If so, did he go to her home alone? If so, that is strictly against church policy. If it’s true and he did go alone - why?

- - - - -
IIRC that church policy doesn’t extend to Bishops. I know I had more than one Bishop show up to the house alone. HT’s, VTs and such are always in pairs, but I don’t think most Bishops follow that.

If this is true, who knows. I can see it happening though.


32 posted on 01/18/2012 9:55:53 AM PST by reaganaut (Romney IS Obama - just 'white and delightsome' 2 Nephi 30:6)
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To: catbertz

Are they just outright lying, or decieved at lower levels?
- - - - -
A little bit of both. They are told that they are Christians (the only true Christians) and that their Jesus is the Biblical one. What they don’t say is that they don’t believe anyone outside of the Mormon church is Christian - only them.

Most LDS just repeat what they are told and don’t think for themselves a quote from one of their manuals states “when the prophet speaks, the thinking has been done”.

There is also a pattern of lying to make the LDS church look good. This shows up when you ask point blank questions that may be embarrassing. Part of the justification for this lying is the ‘milk before meat’ doctrine, that you need to learn and understand certain things and then are told the ‘meat’ doctrines only after you are LDS. This extends to giving ‘gentiles’ (all non Mormons even Jews) the barest of milk.

Elsie has a video that is well worth watching of one of their leaders explaining how they shouldn’t answer.

Here is something I have posted before about just how the LDS lie to people to make them sound like just another Christian denomination.

Every member is expected to find ‘investigators’ (people who would be interested in converting who take the missionary discussions - similar to RCIA). There is also a lot of people who hear things about beliefs but don’t know enough to know what the LDS are saying, that they use different meanings for terms, even though the LDS usually know that Christians mean different things. A typical exchange could go like this...

non - LDS - “I have a lot of Mormon friends, and they are nice people, but don’t Mormons believe Jesus and Satan are brothers?”

LDS - No! We don’t believe that at all! Jesus is the only begotten Son of God! Joseph Smith saw Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and they said that all other churches had some problems and Joseph needed to start a Church that was the same as the one when Jesus Christ was on the Earth. Why don’t you come over for dinner and we will have the missionaries talk to you? There is a set of 6 discussions that they give that shows what we believe.

non-LDS - “Well, ok, but I read somewhere that Mormons believe they will become Gods”

LDS - “That was probably written by someone who has a grudge against the Church. They probably are one of the ones who gets paid to badmouth the Church or someone who couldn’t live by the principles of the Church so they left or they were offended by someone in their ward.

Ok, lets parse this. Notice how many times “the Church” is used. For the LDS it is all about “the Church”. LDS ‘testimonies’ often start out with “I know the Church is true”.

Then there is the automatic denial that Jesus and Satan are brothers. We saw it on this a thread the other day even. Now, all LDS know that their church teaches Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers. So why would you get a resounding “NO”? Because it makes their theology look silly. By stating “No” the LDS are lying to you, but they are thinking “Well they aren’t flesh brothers, just spirit brothers like we all are, Jesus is our Elder brother”.

The other day an LDS came on one of these threads and stated “Jesus and Lucifer aren’t brothers, as if by Mary!”. Notice the subtlety of it. “As if by Mary” implying they aren’t physical brothers (which no one claimed). But they left out That Lucifer was the second born and Jesus was the firstborn of the spirit children.

Next we come to what would appear to be a rebuttal to the claim Jesus and Satan are brothers. “Jesus is the only begotten Son of God!” what they are not telling you is that they mean it in a literal sense. Jesus and Satan are SPIRIT brothers (like all of us) but Jesus is God’s physical son, God came down, had sex with Mary and conceived Jesus. So it isn’t a rebuttal at all and the LDS know that. They are intentionally twisting words to make you think they don’t believe Jesus and Satan are Spirit brothers.

Next Phrase - “Joseph Smith saw Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and they said that all other churches had some problems and Joseph needed to start a Church that was the same as the one when Jesus Christ was on the Earth.” This is referring to the “First Vision” (of which there are several contradictory accounts) and the Great Apostasy. The LDS will tone down things said about other Christians. In the first vision account, Smith isn’t told that other churches ‘had problems’ he was told “I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt http://lds.org/library/display/0,4945,104-1-3-4,00.html

“All wrong”, “Corrupt” and Creeds an abomination are not the same as “some problems” and the LDS know that. But they will soften it in order to not scare people off or to put the LDS church in a ‘better light’.

Next - about becoming Gods. Notice the LDS response is to go down a rabbit hole, rather than addressing the comment. Instead they lead the person to believe that the source was unreliable, or written by someone who had something to gain (money) or a former Mormon with a grudge. The question itself isn’t even addressed (lying by omission). It also causes the person to think that they might be wrong and that the LDS don’t believe that, even though the LDS person knows they do.

Finally, the invitation to meet with the missionaries. There is an assumption by many that these are people who know more about Mormonism than the average member and that isn’t true either. Most men and quite a few women serve LDS missions (I nearly did). They don’t have special knowledge. They also don’t tell you is the goal of those 6 discussions is to get you baptized Mormon and there is pressure put on you to read the Book of Mormon, pray about it, make commitments and convert. Those 6 discussions aren’t just a summary of LDS beliefs, they are the requirements for conversion and that is their goal. But they don’t tell you that, they make it sound like this is just a friendly way of talking to knowledgeable people about what the LDS believe.

Also, there is the doctrine of ‘line upon line, precept upon precept’ or “milk before meat”, that coverts are only told doctrines when they are spiritually ready to hear them. The missionary discussions are the barest of milk. You learn one set of things in them, and then after you convert you start to learn the rest of LDS theology. Then after a year of faithful membership (sometimes more) you get to go to the LDS temple and learn the ‘meat’ doctrines and are sworn to secrecy (used to have to swear blood oaths).

Hope this helps.


33 posted on 01/18/2012 10:06:08 AM PST by reaganaut (Romney IS Obama - just 'white and delightsome' 2 Nephi 30:6)
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To: ynotjjr

34 posted on 01/18/2012 10:09:03 AM PST by JediJones (Newt-er Romney in 2012!)
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To: ynotjjr

35 posted on 01/18/2012 10:10:16 AM PST by JediJones (Newt-er Romney in 2012!)
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To: ynotjjr

36 posted on 01/18/2012 10:11:28 AM PST by JediJones (Newt-er Romney in 2012!)
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To: ynotjjr
Sick..just sick. Messiah did not teach this kind of stuff.

Everything about Romney just oozes out that he is a complete egomaniac, arrogant-to-the-max, control freak who is convinced he is an up and coming G-d. It probably gave him a tingle to scare the “little woman” to death. You can't believe in an omnipotent universal creator master G-d if you think you are a G-d..and you can't serve two masters.

Romney does not act anything like the Mormons I know. This man oozes a level of dark arrogance that is through the roof. It's disgusting And I hate to say it but every time I see his wife and sons they look just like an abused family would look if they had to put on a face for the camera.

The man is not just fake..underneath he is eerie. Others have said he seems deceptive..like a used car salesman..I'm thinking he is more of a dark shadows kind character..profoundly sinister.

I CAN NOT BELIEVE ANY PART OF MY PARTY IS CONSIDERING THIS SLEAZEBALL!

37 posted on 01/18/2012 10:15:09 AM PST by Earthdweller (Harvard won the election again...so what's the problem.......? Embrace a ruler today.)
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts; ynotjjr; greyfoxx39; colorcountry; SZonian; SENTINEL

No one is forcing you to be a member of hte “cult.”

- - - -
Leaving Mormonsim isn’t that simple. For someone to leave, they risk their ‘salvation’, most, if not all, of their friends, sometimes their job and even their families.

Mormons are big on shunning.


38 posted on 01/18/2012 10:15:49 AM PST by reaganaut (Romney IS Obama - just 'white and delightsome' 2 Nephi 30:6)
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To: Earthdweller; colorcountry; greyfoxx39; Elsie

Romney does not act anything like the Mormons I know. This man oozes a level of dark arrogance that is through the roof.

- - - - -
Unfortunately he acts like a lot of Mormons I know. The arrogance is part of Mormonism.


39 posted on 01/18/2012 10:20:55 AM PST by reaganaut (Romney IS Obama - just 'white and delightsome' 2 Nephi 30:6)
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To: reaganaut
"Unfortunately he acts like a lot of Mormons I know. The arrogance is part of Mormonism.

Well..the ones I know are from the Midwest and they are converts from the Methodist church..so that may explain a lot.

But I can't believe they all act just like Romney. It seems to me they would have had their butts kicked years ago for acting like all around filthy jerks. At least that's what has usually happened to self proclaimed G-ds throughout history.

I don't see Romney helping the image of Mormons in any way.

40 posted on 01/18/2012 10:31:16 AM PST by Earthdweller (Harvard won the election again...so what's the problem.......? Embrace a ruler today.)
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No formal training in a theological seminary.

No formal training in marital or family counseling.

No formal training of any kind to prepare him as the “bishop” of his ward.

And yet, here he is, a “lay” leader giving “counsel” to an unwed mother.

So he whips out his handy-dandy Church Handbook of Instructions and when the troubleshooting tree doesn’t address this situation, he calls SLC for the answer.

This action (if true) by Romney and SLC contradicts mormon beliefs that all spirit children “choose” their families here on earth.

So they essentially “blackmail” her into giving up her child by threatening her membership in the church.


41 posted on 01/18/2012 10:41:42 AM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: PapaBear3625

Cut off the church welfare because of her choices? Ok.

Ex-communicate or give up the baby and retain membership? Not ok.


42 posted on 01/18/2012 10:48:23 AM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Earthdweller

But I can’t believe they all act just like Romney. I

- - - -
Spend some time in Utah. It is a prominent attitude especially among those born in the LDS church. The attitude of superiority comes partly from their believe that the ‘most valiant’ spirit children during the ‘war in heaven’ are born to good LDS families and the really valiant ones are born to Mormon ‘royalty’ - like Romney.

Converts were less valiant than those born Mormon, and never Mormons less valiant still. It is a spiritual hierarchy.

This attitude is also what got them kicked out of the US in the 1840’s and part of the impetus of the “Mormon War”


43 posted on 01/18/2012 11:00:25 AM PST by reaganaut (Romney IS Obama - just 'white and delightsome' 2 Nephi 30:6)
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To: PapaBear3625
Ok, let me make it a little bit clearer. In a free society which has certain rights relative to that freedom means that you cannot infringe on those rights because YOU want for force your morality on someone else.

My original comment was related to thinking anyone in this country would be ok with someone saying you cannot have a child if you are single and therefore, the only way to ensure you don't have a child if you are single means no sex if you are single. THAT kind of morality cannot be legislated.

The Puritans on this site can think it is possible to achieve their vision of how people will live their life, but it will never happen.

44 posted on 01/18/2012 11:42:17 AM PST by LuvFreeRepublic
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To: reaganaut

Thank you for responding with very interesting info! I’ve felt a similar sensation of deception when Jehovah Witnesses have found their way to my door. The truth comes later, often much later, after it’s too late.

As I said to another poster who responded by mail, I cannot agree with their teachings, and don’t believe I share the same Christian faith with Mormons. As a sci-fi fan, I find their beliefs interesting, but perhaps share more in common with Scientology. I’ve met some absolutely wonderful Mormons in my life btw. Very fine family people.


45 posted on 01/18/2012 1:31:00 PM PST by catbertz (Easter egg...I wants it.)
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To: LuvFreeRepublic
Ok, let me make it a little bit clearer. In a free society which has certain rights relative to that freedom means that you cannot infringe on those rights because YOU want for force your morality on someone else.

I don't think you are against legislating morality, just against legislating moral stances that you happen to disagree with.

Some people have decided that racial or sexual discrimination is morally wrong, and have imposed their morality upon others by law. I, personally, think that people should have freedom of association, and that this means that an employer who doesn't feel like hiring blacks, women, or left-handed Armenians should not be forced to employ people he doesn't want to, and that business people who don't feel like doing business with gays or redheads should be allowed not to. The law says otherwise. From my viewpoint, that is legislating morality. Do you disagree?

In this case, Romney, as an officer of his church, told a woman that she could not keep a child born out of wedlock (and which she could not afford to support without church assistance) remain a member in good standing of the Mormon church. He was not putting a gun to her head, he just laid out the criteria she needed to follow in order to remain a member.

The above does not mean I like Romney as a candidate, or like the Mormon church, just that I think the Mormon church has the right to decide who to keep around.

What ticks me off is people who demand freedom without responsibility.

46 posted on 01/18/2012 2:08:02 PM PST by PapaBear3625 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.)
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To: ynotjjr
Mitt Romney Pressured Single Mother To Give Up Baby, Book Says

Well at LEAST he didn't tell her to Pray to GOD to see if she should ABORT the baby. (Did he?)

47 posted on 01/18/2012 2:12:19 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: PapaBear3625

You left out number five:

5) Do it or ELSE!!!!


48 posted on 01/18/2012 2:15:23 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Nonstatist
She can go find anoither church willing to subsidize her.

No need; as we TAXPAYERS have been forced into doing that.

49 posted on 01/18/2012 2:16:39 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: reaganaut
Unfortunately he acts like a lot of Mormons I know. The arrogance is part of Mormonism.

 

MORMON
ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY
 

  1. I’m Superior; I have a special gift of the holy Ghost -- you don’t!
  2. I’m Superior; I have God’s true priesthood power -- you don’t!
  3. I’m Superior; I can go in God’s secret Temple -- you can’t!
  4. I’m Superior; I’ve been Endowed with special Gifts and Knowledge -- you’re just normal!
  5. I’m Superior; I’ll have my family with me in heaven -- you’ll be with strangers!
  6. I’m Superior; I’m becoming a God -- you aren’t!
  7. I’m Superior; My women know their place as servants of man and yours don’t.
  8. I’m Superior; YOUR creeds are wrong because they come from man - mine comes from God (you can find each one printed in our Scriptures).
  9. I’m Superior; I don’t HAVE a creed - I’ve got 13 Articles of Faith.
10. I'm Superior; I have 4 "Bibles"-- the standard works (5 if you count the JST) -- you've only got one: in as far as it is translated correctly.
11. I’m Superior; I can lie with impunity about such things as church membership, church growth, church doctrine, church history, church influence, etc. —                           -- You can’t.
12. I’m Superior; I am right (everybody knows) when I say 'evangelical' Christians are lunatics -- 
                           -- You’re a hideous narrow-minded bigot, who is persecuting me by practicing discrimination by saying I'm not a Christian.
13. I'm Superior; I have a testimony about a prophet -- you don't.
14. I'm Superior; I have a Scripture-producing Amos 3:7 prophet -- you don't
15. I’m Superior; I have a Living Prophet who talks to god every day -- you have a dim-witted hireling of Satan who only talks to himself.
16. I'm Superior; I have my calling & election made sure -- you don't.
17. I’m Superior; I have magic underwear to protect me from the bogey man -- you don’t.
18. I’m Superior; I have secret clasps and grips to give the angel so I get admitted to the celestial kingdom -- you don’t ;so you can’t.
19. I'm Superior; I know secret handshake codes for afterlife entrances-- you don't.
20. I’m Superior; I will see Joseph Smith setting on the right hand of GOD, when I get to Mormon heaven, and he will recognize me and judge me favorably                              -- You’re on your own; when you get to wherever you’re going!
21. I’m Superior; I’m going to hie to Kolob -- you’re going to who knows where.
22. I’m Superior; I get to have a harem and act like a celestial stud for time and all eternity -- you don’t.
23. I’m Superior; I have sun stones, moon stones, sky stones, cloud stones, Saturn stones, and the evil eye of Osirus guarding my temple
                            -- You have nothing but a stupid cross.
24. I’m Superior; My church has billions in assets stashed away -- yours has taken a stupid vow of poverty.
25. I'm Superior; Last - we have the power to keep a whole race out of our priesthood if we wanted to reinsert our 148-year legacy  (we ARE still keeping an entire GENDER at bay!)
26.  I'm superior; I have the "higher law" -- everyone else "lives under the "lesser law' because I say so...(over and over).
 
 
Revision 46.5
Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans.
All rights liable to be abused.

50 posted on 01/18/2012 2:22:51 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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