Female driver who defied Saudi motoring ban dies in fatal road accident

Definite NOT GUILTY...but it doesn’t matter now.

Thought you might be interested.
Ping to main article & comments.
Also to #19.

...doesn’t say she was driving...someone is Saudi got their knickers in a twist over it:

Do not talk about my country if you were you know all what is happening there!!! I am a Saudi girl and I know all the circumstances of what happened .. Driving the vehicle is rejected from society in the cities .. Sharif crossed red lines of the community in general, so for now SHE NOT respected as one of her family even apologized for the behavior .. ITS A Long story .. But the death of the girls has nothing to do with what happened!!! that it is natural girls can drive ‘ car outside the cities and in rural areas, villages, and sometime we have deaths, this is not the first time!! .. There are traditions and peculiarities of our society I do not know Why everyone intervene whith it !! where we do not interfere in the privacy of your community!!
- shatha, ksa, 25/1/2012 01:38

So here’s my reply to her outraged little highness:

Dear shathe, ksa

Perhaps if the fanatics who caused over three thousand deaths on 9/11 had not been from your country, we in the rest of the world wouldn’t give a d*mn - but that’s a huge glass house you live in, and we reserve the right to throw back some stones. Think yourself lucky. Oh and btw, your ‘prophet’ was a terrorist.

Thanks for posting Shatha’s comment.

It is interesting that she notes the difference between cities & villages/rural areas regarding female drivers. I believe her regarding that point. But hadn’t heard of that, and wonder why that should be the case, specifically for female drivers in SA.

Of course, KSA (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia) as we know it today (its official borders), was only (artificially) formed & founded in early 1930s, with the help of the British gov’t, which brought the House of Saud to power.

Naturally another significant “peculiarity” regarding KSA was & is its bedouin tribes, of which Mohamad was one together with his other immediate infamous disciples such as Umar, and Uthman Abu Bakr, and Mr original Shi’ite Imam (or the 4th Caliph for Sunnis) Ali ibn abi (talib)-—> Taliban sounds very familiar almost 14 centuries later.

Btw, Taliban is the plural form of “Talib”. — Talib means a Seeker. Though their behaviour & actions were & still are more akin to terrorists (those who terrorise) - whether by attacking caravans, stealing, looting, or attacking countries & forcibly converting others.

forgot comma = Uthman, and Abu Bakr

Found this blog, interesting...

http://taraummomar.blogspot.com/2010/04/women-driving-in-saudi-arabia-my.html

From Shaykh Nasirud-deen Al-Albaani, rahimahullah (translated by Adnan bin Salam)…

Questioner: Is it permissible for a woman to drive a car?

Answer: If it is permissible for her to ride upon a (female) donkey then it is permissible for her to drive a car.

Questioner: But there is a difference between a donkey and a car.

Shaykh Al-Albaanee: Which is more concealing – riding upon a donkey or in a car? I would suggest (riding in) a car.

Shaykh Muqbil Al-Waadi’ee (rahimahullah) issued a similar ruling...

Question: What is the ruling on a woman driving a car, and what is your view in making it similar to a woman riding a beast (i.e. Horse)?

Answer: ... if the woman is righteous and is safe from fitnah and she needs something in the market then this is no problem (driving) and I do not see any prevention in this. For the car is a machine made of iron and we do not make this haraam upon her.

It’s like life on another planet, you need to consult a cleric with a long beard - wearing a dirty nightshirt if it’s ok to breathe.

hahaha.. shows the mentality & logic, doesn’t it?

>>”Which is more concealing – riding upon a donkey or in a car? I would suggest (riding in) a car.”<<

Which one is more animate, a car or a donkey? How about a horse?!

Ever saw this bit of news back in 2007? — the Iranian mullahs’ regime & their ‘female’ lackeys I reckon get their stuff from the same source -—> Bedo Arabs. Yet, they (and we) often want to say there is a difference in Shi’ite vs. Sunni or Wahhabi or whatever that crawled out of Arabia infesting the region and now the world!

“Iran To Make ‘Islamic Bicyles’ For Women

May 17, 2007 — Iran will soon start manufacturing “Islamic bicycles” for women to allow them to remain largely hidden from view as they ride.”

http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1076545.html

Then again, maybe it is simply ‘marketing the contraption to the right crowd’..

“It is interesting that she notes the difference between cities & villages/rural areas regarding female drivers. I believe her regarding that point. But hadn’t heard of that, and wonder why that should be the case, specifically for female drivers in SA.”

I too believe her.
Several yrs ago, I watched a piece on tv about a woman dentist who practiced in Jeddah (I believe). The most modern dental office I’d ever seen - obviously cost a fortune. But what was surprising to me at the time, was that she was in western dress, no head covering and it showed her working on several men. Answering the reporter’s questions about her attire & practice, she said it depended on what part of Saudi you were in. (I assume it had to do with her clientele too)

Even in Iran, there are photos of women in more remote rural parts of the country, wearing their traditional regional dress, which doesn’t include the hijab enforced in the cities.

So, it doesn’t surprise me that in Saudi there are different ‘rules’ & exceptions or acceptable behaviors for different parts of the the country.

In a way you’re correct about different parts of the country, including rules and acceptable behaviour.

Here is my bit of info:

>>”But what was surprising to me at the time, was that she was in western dress, no head covering and it showed her working on several men.”<<

I *personally* never have lived in Saudi Arabia.

Based on all I have heard from those who are either Saudi or others who have lived there, I should say *western* attire is not the norm or the rule in SA - not even in villages or rural areas. It is more an exception to the rule.

Of course many Westerners, also, are often surprised to know, for example, that (Islamic) ‘hejab’ as we see & know it today in many moslem countries, like SA, didn’t so much exist prior to Islam. Certainly was not *enforced* on women as a dress code in most “Arab” countries prior to Islam.

>>”Even in Iran, there are photos of women in more remote rural parts of the country, wearing their traditional regional dress, which doesn’t include the hijab enforced in the cities.”<<

I know Iran pretty well. From personal experience & since I still have relatives living there - not only in Tehran, but also in other Iranian provinces. Though my relatives are Zoroastrians. But, they live among mostly (officially) moslem people in Iran.

So, firstly, should say Iran is not comparable to a place like Saudi Arabia - neither historically nor today.

Iran, for many, many centuries has consisted of different *ethnic* grps, as you know. Each grp has its own traditional dress or costume. In Iran these traditional costumes or dresses for women (and men) were not “religiously” dictated, certainly were not Islamic. They still are not.

A CORE issue with the mullahs’ regime (IRI), unlike the Saudis, is that mullahs forcefully are anti-Western attire, often advertised as anti-Islamic. In remote or rural areas of Iran, the IRI doesn’t really care, and traditional *Iranian* (ethnic dress) for women is seen not to negate IRI’s anti-Western (by extension anti-Islamic) stance.

The Saudis (including many members of the Saudi Royal family) are not primarily anti-Western under the guise of Islam. They are primarily Islamic.

The reasons for why a particular practice may be acceptable in certain areas of the country and not others, or whether it is the norm or not, are varied & interesting.

I was pointing out that the exceptions exist, are observable & practiced out in the open, as the Saudi girl/woman commented about women driving in rural areas.

Most people get one picture of life in a foreign country, especially an islamic one, and assume the entire country is the same.

I have wondered if the mullahs of Iran are descended from the Arabian invaders. Is there an Arab aristocracy in Iran? I have read that the Arabs formed a ruling class in places such as Morocco and Algeria. The native people are the Berbers but their culture and language has been supressed by the Arabs. I was wondering if something like that took place in Iran.

I wonder what they have in those vans.

I wrote to you some months ago about promoting Persian cultural identity, have you seen any examples of this?

Yes & No. It is a long & often convoluted story & history...

Basically & key points are:

When Iran (known as “Persia” back then to foreigners only) was invaded by Bedo Arabs, Mohamad himself was not alive.

Iran was attacked by Mohamad’s 2nd Caliph (successor) ‘Umar’ & his army.

The 1st Arab rulers of Iran (Persia), thereafter, were called the Ummayyads. They were pure Bedouin Arabs.

Later, another Bedouin Arab tribe, in war (conflict) w/ Ummayyads defeated them & came to power. They were called the Abbassids.

The Arab Abbassids were no aristocracy. Similar to the Ummayyads, the Abbassids were also primitive Arab Bedos, but quite wiley.

UNlike the Ummayyads, the Abbassids *gradually* tried to assimilate into *Persian Culture* by marrying Persian women, positioning themselves as “Kings”, similar to previous Zoroastrian (Sassanid) Kings, BUT by adapting traditional Iranian & Zoroastrian customs, traditions, and celebrations (even the Iranian calendar) to suit their Islamic purposes, which was the Islamisation of Iran. And, to some extent, Iran’s Arabisation.

Additionally, they made deals with various regional Iranian moslem converts to devolve rule to Iranian converts to Islam, in various regions, in order to further embed Islam in Iran, and to make Islam acceptable.

Yes, Persian language, post-Arab-Islam invasion was banned for 2 centuries, after Arab-Islam invasion in the 7th century AD. Arabic was enforced as the only & official language.

Anyone who spoke Persian, if caught, had his/her tongue cut off. Traditional Iranian books, taught at universities in ancient Iran, on sciences, astronomy, medicine, mathematics, algebra, Zoroastrianism, and so on.. were burned, often Iranians and especially Zoroastrian priests (mobeds) were burned in the pyre of the books. Only the Qu’ran was acceptable to read. — As just ONE reliable reference, you may want to read the book by Abdolhossein Zarrinkoob called “Two Centuries of Silence”.

It wasn’t until the 10th century that an Iranian called Ferdowsi wrote the Shah-nameh (Book of Kings) in almost pure Persian language, in order to revive the Persian language. He did achieve his goal. Even unlike today’s mainstream farsi spoken in Iran, the “Shah-nameh” only has about at most 2% words with Arabic roots in it.

Towards the end of the Arab Abbassid rule circa 10th C. AD (which was based out of today’s Iraq), a good portion of Iranians had become moslems. Either due to financial pressures, desire to save their properties, not be persecuted & humiliated, or simply to avoid being killed. Of course, some Iranians willingly accepted Islam for their own reasons.

Those Iranian (regional) moslem converts & rulers then, essentially, became the vassal of the Arab Abbassids invaders.

Many (most) pro Arab (often religious) moslem Iranian historians (and people) like to claim that Shi’ite Imams for example are part Iranian. That a daughter (Shahr-banou) of the last Sassanid Zoroastrian King Yazdgerd III actually & willingly married an Arab (namely Ali ibn abi Talib - the 1st Shi’ite Imam or the 4th Caliph to Sunnis) and produced 2 sons being the 2nd & 3rd Shia imams, who were Hassan & Hossein.

However, most bona fide historical records indicate that Yazdgerd III did not have a daughter called ‘Shahr-Banou’. She is a fictitious character invented by pro Arab moslem Iranians, who use that story to encourage the acceptance of Islam in Iran as ‘homegrown’. Just as they do so by saying “Shia” Islam is an Iranian invention or an Iranian Islam - it isn’t. Suggest reading post #65 in this earlier thread: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2698874/posts

At any rate, a member of Sassanid Royal family would have NEVER married an Arab, especially not a primitive Bedo Arab. Culturally, it would’ve been completely unacceptable, even on a personal level. Plus, most members of the Sassanid Royal family were either killed in Iran. Others actually moved to China and were given sanctuary in the old Imperial Chinese Court, at the time.

Of course following Arab-moslem invasion of Iran, the Arabs raped, killed and ‘married’ Iranian women (but not aristocracy or royalty). So, some of the mullahs could be descended from the original Arabian invaders. Also, even in recent history, many of those currently in charge in mullahs’ regime were not born in Iran. Many were born in Iraq.

The *other* issue with the current mullahs is that they subscribe to Islamic-Arabic “ideology”. Besides, they are in a league of their own!

Sorry for the long reply, but am just giving you a fraction of significant details..

It is difficult to see visible examples of it in Iran, since anything (or most things) to do with REAL “Persian identity” includes the Monarchy (not just the late Shah or the Pahlavis). And, the Mullahs’ regime would, most definitely, prevent it, censor it, or take more direct, life-threatening actions in Iran. Well, unless the Monarchs were diehard “Moslems” (Islamics) like the Safavids or the Qajar dynasties. So, most things are done underground & surreptitiously in Iran.

In the US there are several Persian (Iranian) networks and programs, many out of California which promote and have promoted “persian identity”.

Since I live in Australia, I don’t have firsthand knowledge of the specifics in the US. But, know that in Australia, the promotion of Persian identity has been ongoing, particularly in Zoroastrian-Iranian or Zoroastrian-Parsee communities, especially for children. I am also noting that the Iranian ex-pat community in Australia is much smaller than the US, and has been much more Perian, anti-Mullah oriented, for a long time.

For example, a statue of Cyrus the Great was put up in Sydney’s Olympic Park several years ago, only through efforts and $$$ raised by the Iranian (Persian community) both in Australian, and with some help from Iranians elsewhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Olympic_Park_Cyrus.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Olympic_Park_Cyrus-2.png
http://www.sydneyolympicpark.com.au/search?query=cyrus+the+great+statue

http://features.kodoom.com/en/iran-culture/islamic-bicycle-designed-for-women-in-iran/v/2252/

Oct 3, 2010
According to Iranian Women’s News Agency (IWNA) Mehdi Esmaeeli, the Deputy to Governor of Isfahan in Security and Political affairs, discussed plans for design and mass production of a special Islamic bicycle for women. He said: “Riding bicycle for women, if it is done to attract attentions, is against Islamic norms ... But there are health benefits and we cannot only prohibit women from doing things ... So we are designing biking provisions for women, such as specially designed bicycles.”

Mr. Esmaeeli did not elaborate on how the new design would mask or block attention to the woman riding the bicycle, but he pointed out to other provisions: “Naturally covered and hidden paths around the Zayandehrood river in Isfahan and closed paths are considered for this purpose.”

IRANIAN WOMEN BEFORE 1979

Very good. I always enjoy reading about history.

I typed & posted #34 rather quickly w/out revising.

>>”That a daughter (Shahr-banou) of the last Sassanid Zoroastrian King Yazdgerd III actually & willingly married an Arab (namely Ali ibn abi Talib - the 1st Shi’ite Imam or the 4th Caliph to Sunnis) and produced 2 sons being the 2nd & 3rd Shia imams, who were Hassan & Hossein.”<<

CORRECTION = They say: “Shahr-Banou” married the 3rd Shi’ite imam “Hossein”, and, as a result, they claim that the other Shi’ite Imams (12ers sect) are part Iranian (Persian).

Ali ibn abi talib was Mohamad’s cousin, actually married a daughter of Mohamad (by the name of Fatimah), was therefore also Mohamad’s son-in-law.

Thanks for the photos!
The singer “Googoosh” is an Iranian icon!
She is still very popular and now lives in California.
Funny, I distinctly remember that photo of her in that particular outfit from my time in Iran.