Skip to comments.Defkalion offers testing of cold fusion reactors
Posted on 01/24/2012 6:53:19 PM PST by Kevmo
The Greek company Defkalion has invited scientific and business organizations to test the core technology in its forthcoming energy products. The products are based on LENR Low Energy Nuclear Reactions.
In a press release on January 23, Defkalion has invited "internationally recognized and reputable scientific and business organizations" from now and two months ahead, to do independent testing with their own instruments on the reactors used in the Defkalion's forthcoming energy device, "Hyperion" .
The apparatus is according to Defkalion based on "Chemically Assisted Low Energy Nuclear Reactions caused by Nickel and Hydrogen Nuclei", a technology supposedly developed by the company after the termination of the agreement on production and distribution of Andrea Rossi's "E-cat" last summer .
Low Energy Nuclear Reactions, or LENR, is the term used in recent years instead of the more controversial "cold fusion", a new type of nuclear reactions that there is still little knowledge about.
Measurements will be made on the "bare" reactor without cooling, and according to Defkalion temperatures above 650°C will be reached, and also a power development that is far more than 20 times the input electrical power required to start the reaction (COP) .
Defkalion describes a test method known as "Differential thermal analysis". The intention is to measure the difference between power development in a reactor loaded with fuel and one that is empty and only heated by the resistor needed to start the reaction, and then repeat the measurement after the reactors have been switched .
The description in the press release, however, is scant and partly incorrect .
In addition to power measurement, alpha and gamma radiation will be measured, and the reactors will be weighed, measured, and also opened .
Test protocols will be published before tests and the results may be published freely by invited evaluators .
Defkalion maintains that independent testing of the finished Hyperion products, which were presented in November 2011, will be made in the beginning of this year after certification of the products. Final products are supposed to be ready for market in 2012 .
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The Cold Fusion Ping List
The Cold Fusion Ping List
4. Other Measurements No other measurements (e.g. calorimetry), will be performed during such bare Reactor testing.
This is a concern though.
When is the test?
I thought this has been decided to always be a folly. I am no nuclear scientiest but in the 1980’s someone rolled out this discovery only to be proved again a folly. It sounds so promising like Co2 reduction mechanisms
I was skeptical and derisive when I first saw articles and press releases about the E-Cat a couple of years ago. It didn't help matters that the people pushing it looked and sounded like dozens of other "free energy" scams I've seen on the internet.
I'm still skeptical, but I now think that they are not con artists and they are observing "something". Their willingness to push forward with working prototypes, development of marketable products and "some" independent testing is encouraging. They claim that mainstream gov't and academic researches are biased against them.
There have been rumors and some claims of proof that the independent facilities that tested the claims of cold-fusion back in the 80's modified the experiment protocols and doomed the tests to failure. The "scientific consensus" was that the testing proved that there was nothing to it, just some bumbling physics professors at a couple of Podunk Universities who didn't design appropriate experiments and then jumped to erroneous conclusions.
I never would have believed it possible...until I witnessed the global warming scam in action. Like I said, I'm holding on to my skepticism, but I'm pullin' for the guy.
Measurement of bare Hyperion Reactor COP (i.e. total energy consumed versus energy produced)
Got to plug it in or does it run on batteries? Not a self sustaining reactor?
Total energy consumed versus USEFUL/USABLE energy produced.
Please add me to the ping list. Thanks.
That's OK. Who really needs precision from a company promising nuclear fusion devices?
This will be my standard post to moonboy that says youre not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says buzz off & doesnt leave crickets. But if it offends you to the point that you get it removed like my prior innocuous citation then I’ll have to come up with some other ‘ignore button’ post.
This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.
55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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That's what the folks who have worked so hard to suppress cold fusion want you to think. In point of fact, the CF phenomenon is very real, and highly reputable scientists have replicated the Pons and Fleischmann results, one such replication having done within a few months of the P&F results. When the final story is written, that suppression will likely prove to be one of the biggest scandals in science history.
1:20 (energy in:energy out). As further progress is made in understanding and tuning the process and the hardware, that will probably increase.
Think of the reactor as like your car engine....it needs a large amount of input power to start up, and then a continuous trickle of power to keep going. It is also mode similar to a Diesel....still needs a large amount of input power to start up, but no further power to keep going.....but is "more cantankerous" than the engine WITH the continuous trickle. But in both cases, the output power is gigantic compared to the "input" power.
has a reasonably balanced discussion. There is quite a bit of evidence of suppression using the same tactics as the promulgators of “global warming” use to suppress countering views....denial of funding, denial of tenure, accusations of fraud (both public and in academic “witch hunts”), loss of career, termination (if possible)
Right. It's a phenomenon and anomaly. The energy produced, if any, is unpredictable, which is why any claim of having a commercially viable energy producing product is rubbish.
Teenagers have accomplished fusion with deuterium gas plasmas. There is no suppression of the results. The difference is they aren't trying to scam people by saying it produces more energy than it consumes.
Have you read the proceedings from ICCF15 yet?? Or ANY paper from LENR-CANR.org?? If not, you're still ignorant. Probably willfully.
Of course not. It fits the accepted "hot fusion" paradigm. Have you studied the stories of Bockris, Hagelstein, Taleyarkhan yet?? Lots of evidence for suppression. But, you just can't be bothered to actually look at the facts.
This doesn't prove or disprove Rossi if it succeeds or fails. I hope people realize that. Rossi said he misled them and Defkalion said they found the catalyst on their own and from what I've seen of Defkalions Hyperion, it is a different animal in configuration, I have no idea if it runs on the same exact principle as Rossi's.
The good part is this seems to separate the two companies so that the elaborate scams that included both aren't applicable.
I do know who is going to make a ton of moolah off of this and Rossi, attorneys, fighting over either the catalyst, or Rossi breaking off the contractor finally, the disparaging remarks Rossi made about Defklalion (you know attorneys), they'll use anything they can get their hands on. Rossi will say that Defkalion stole his catalyst which might be mitigated by him also saying he misled them.
Sit back and enjoy the ride. I hope they both work, that doesn't mean I think they will.
The same applies to muon catalyzed cold fusion. The only real paradigm is, like I said, one group has scammers claiming to produce net energy.
Has Defkalion, the mysterious company with no background (except links to Rossi), published any of them?
I think it's a Rossi sister scam designed to give credibility to his magic catalyst. If someone steals it, it must be legitimate, right?
Here is what I assumes the production model will look like:
The green thing looks like a float for a toilet bowl.
What do you think; is this a tiny reactor just to demonstrate the affect because Rossi's fat-cats are pretty big?
If it is a production model, it's probably what, 1kw or less provided it works?
The pic I posted of it in the green box has different electronics in it, in fact, it looks like they combined the two circuits in the first one into one board mounted on the right side. While a two year electronic student could design the controls, that doesn't mean they can cover ALL operating conditions unless any aberration in reactions just kills the reaction instead of regulating it. I hope they got someone good because they have no choice but to work with the reactor side of the picture and you get two numbnuts whose egos are better than their skills and it is a nightmare.
You may laugh and say any design should have all parties speaking but I've been in a place where no one talked so I had to get my info from the lead programmer (on the sly) to design the systems his software was running on. I couldn't believe it but it worked in the end. It would have worked better if we were all involved in the design phase.
No, I haven't. I look forward to it with some eagerness.
"This doesn't prove or disprove Rossi if it succeeds or fails. I hope people realize that. Rossi said he misled them and Defkalion said they found the catalyst on their own and from what I've seen of Defkalions Hyperion, it is a different animal in configuration, I have no idea if it runs on the same exact principle as Rossi's."
Well, they certainly are both "Ni-H2" based, so the general category is the same. If they do a real public test, it sort of puts Rossi in the "between the rock and hard place" position. He will almost certainly HAVE to respond.
"I do know who is going to make a ton of moolah off of this and Rossi, attorneys..."
Yeah, this situation is tailored for many years of litigation.
"Sit back and enjoy the ride. I hope they both work, that doesn't mean I think they will.
I've been enjoying the ride since last January. I look forward to seeing what data is generated.
In general, Defkalion's stuff appears much better engineered than Rossi's. If you saw the slides of the early prototypes in Focardi's talk, the one thing that stood out was the crudity of the construction.
"If it is a production model, it's probably what, 1kw or less provided it works?"
I think it's impossible to say at this point. They're using a much higher temperature fluid, and working in a totally different temperature regime, so that small gizmo may actually be turning out signficant energy.
"I hope they got someone good because they have no choice but to work with the reactor side of the picture and you get two numbnuts whose egos are better than their skills and it is a nightmare."
Been there, experienced that.....NOT fun.
"You may laugh and say any design should have all parties speaking but I've been in a place where no one talked so I had to get my info from the lead programmer (on the sly) to design the systems his software was running on. I couldn't believe it but it worked in the end. It would have worked better if we were all involved in the design phase.
I most definitely would not laugh....those are my sentiments exactly. Get as much input from as many people might have expertise UP FRONT in the design process has been my mantra for probably thirty years. It took me a while to learn that, but learn it I did.
So, your judgment is that all researchers in LENR are scammers??? That all those thousands of papers, by dozens of researchers, were all scams?? Is that your position?
How is this relevant??
Perhaps you would like to point out the most important ones, why they're relevant, and why the scientific community should consider them published.
We don't see any scams in the areas of fusion research that are backed by real theories, where the results can be explained with calculations, and are more than anomalies and phenomena.
Creating fusion is relatively easy. Creating fusion that produces more energy than it consumes, is commercially viable, and doesn't kill everything in a huge radius is extremely difficult. I'm confident that an ex-con from Italy with a tendency for incomprehensible tirades hasn't solved the problem.
Because you obviously also don't think that LENR has any scientific basis. TRUE science is about reproducible facts, NOT theory. Theory is nice, but TYPICALLY comes after the garnering of reproducible facts, particularly in "paradigm-shaking" situations (a la the "Big Bang").
If you go the the LENR-CANR.org "Library" section, at the top of the page you will see a link entitled "Publications". Clicking this shows the articles organized by where published, with the list of journals in the left-hand window. Pick the ones from the journals "you" think are "most reliable". You might actually learn something.
"Creating fusion that produces more energy than it consumes, is commercially viable, and doesn't kill everything in a huge radius is extremely difficult. I'm confident that an ex-con from Italy with a tendency for incomprehensible tirades hasn't solved the problem."
Many other researchers with impeccable scientific credentials have also produced experimental evidence that the phenomenon is real, though with smaller COP than Rossi. The point isn't the COP, it's the existence of the phenomenon. But you just can't be bothered to look at the evidence, endlessly repeating your tired old "there's no theory" meme.
This is supposed to be the original source:
I'm looking for a photo. He says he had it running at 200o degrees for two days.
Considering the fact that Defkalion and Rossi now seem to hate each other, this makes LENR hard to ignore.
At this point, the phenomenon seems more probable than not.
Looking down the road, I see a brief economic boom that will be milked to service gov’t debt. The day of reckoning for Greece and the West will be postponed.
On the plus side, this will drain the Mideast swamp. I also see a boom in mega-construction projects, with this new source of practically free energy. Buy Caterpillar!
It's 15 minutes long so if you get free time it is interesting. He dedicated the video to Mallov (sp?)
Haven't gone to the original sources that you link, but have been following the comments on Vortex-L about it.
"I'm looking for a photo. He says he had it running at 200o degrees for two days."
Well, I have to put this one in the category of REALLY insufficient data. At least Rossi has "some" level of independent verification, as criticized as that verification is. This guy has zip. "If" he has succeeded with a method significantly at variance with either Pd/D2 or "normal" Ni/H2 devices, then apparently "solid state fusion" with gas-loaded systems is a LOT easier than originally thought. As with all things scientific, the truth will inevitably come out. That may happen next week, in twenty years (per P&F), or even longer, but science ALWAYS gets to the bottom of things eventually.
He was using a glove box with propane as the inert gas and a bunch of people said that's not exactly a great idea.
I can't really make sense of his description, he's using a Styrofoam lid?
1) 10" X 10" X 10" soldered seam copper box, open at top. 2) 4" Styrofoam insulation on sides and bottom. Styrofoam cover for top.
3) 7 6" lengths of 1/4 " copper tube soldered to bottom, centered to provide platform.
4) 4" diameter by 6" long glass pipe created by cutting glass bottle. 5) #24 gauge winding around this and placement on stand completes the apparatus. The windings are connected to an RFG with a low range and pulse mode. 6) The box is filled to 8 " with mineral oil. A thermal couple is placed in the oil outside the core. Outside, a small oil pump with 1/4 " copper tubes leading into the box circulates the oil A fan cooled radiator is attached in series to provide heat dissipation and an adjustable valve allows temperature control.
7) The energy capsules which I place inside of the coil consist of 5 " lengths of 1/4 " copper tube with the bottom pressed and then spot welded closed.
Noting that excessive copper and iron surprise showed up in the Swedish analysis I stocked powders of both with varies properties.
It looks like Aussie Guy's been PNG'ed at Vortex.