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Does Mormonism Scare you? Does the thought of a Mormon US President Romney scare you? READ THIS!
January 27, 2012 | Ralph Mitchell

Posted on 01/27/2012 12:18:49 PM PST by mitchell001

Does the thought of Mitt Romney, a devout Mormon and Mormon leader, becoming President scare you? After reading this testimonial of an ex-Mormon ((http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_packham/why.html)), I am scared of Mitt Romney becoming President. Remember when Barack Obama was seeking the nomination in 2008, his 20 year attendance at Jerimiah Wright's church where radical preaching took place was glossed over by the American public and the press. I say we do not make the same mistake with Mitt Romney and his leadership role in the Mormon Church. In the GOP nominating process, let's explore Mitt's Mormon beliefs. Am I totally off base? Please read the link on the ex-Mormon above!


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: inman; mormon; mormonism; romney; romneymorman; romneymormon; vanity
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To: cherry

The fact that he is a temple Mormon unequivically means he believes what the LDS church teaches. It is an all or nothing proposition. If you don’t believe you leave like I did.

To me his religion matters because it shows his gulliblity and worldview. He thinks he will become a god, and he believes in a very different God.

Do your research. It matters to me that he wears a apron in the Temple that is the apron of Lucifer’s priesthood. In 1990, however, they changed the ETERNAL ENDOWMENT ceremony (right there red flag) and removed the part about ministers being hirelings of Satan. However, they did leave this part in....

www.ldsendowment.org

THE APRON
[Lucifer returns as Adam is eating the fruit.]
LUCIFER: That is right.
EVE: [To Adam.] It is better for us to pass through sorrow that we may know the good from the evil. [To Lucifer.] I know thee now. Thou art Lucifer, he who was cast out of Father’s presence for rebellion.
LUCIFER: Yes. You are beginning to see already.
ADAM: What is that apron you have on?
LUCIFER: It is an emblem of my power and priesthoods.
ADAM: Priesthoods?
LUCIFER: Yes, priesthoods.
ADAM: I am looking for Father to come down to give us further instructions.
LUCIFER: Oh, you are looking for Father to come down, are you?
[Elohim and Jehovah are heard speaking outside the Garden Room.]
ELOHIM: Jehovah, we promised Adam that we would visit him and give him further instructions. Come, let us go down.
JEHOVAH: We will go down, Elohim.
ADAM: I hear their voices; they are coming.
LUCIFER: See—you are naked. Take some fig leaves and make you aprons. Father will see your nakedness. Quick! Hide!
[Lucifer withdraws from view.]
ADAM: Brethren and sisters, put on your aprons.


151 posted on 01/28/2012 9:31:00 AM PST by reaganaut (If Romney is a conservative then I'm the frickin Angel Moroni.)
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To: Vigilanteman; MHGinTN

I can be prepared, have survival skills and extra food without being Mormon.

If you talk to ex-mo’s you will often hear stories about how much food they wasted on their requirements to be prepared. It is a hoarding mentality.


152 posted on 01/28/2012 9:34:43 AM PST by reaganaut (If Romney is a conservative then I'm the frickin Angel Moroni.)
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To: JustTheTruth; mitchell001

Sure - check it out from the source:’

www.irr.org/mit
www.utlm.org
www.mormonoutreach.org
www.mrm.org
www.ldsendowment.org
www.exmormon.org


153 posted on 01/28/2012 9:37:29 AM PST by reaganaut (If Romney is a conservative then I'm the frickin Angel Moroni.)
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To: MindBender26; Just mythoughts

Not if it was his church that taught him it is ok to lie to get what he wants or to further the goals of said organization.


154 posted on 01/28/2012 9:40:44 AM PST by reaganaut (If Romney is a conservative then I'm the frickin Angel Moroni.)
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To: gswilder

I expected the media and the democrats to bring up religion, but not conservatives.

- - — -
Why not? For conservatives faith, worldview and beliefs matter.


155 posted on 01/28/2012 9:44:29 AM PST by reaganaut (If Romney is a conservative then I'm the frickin Angel Moroni.)
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To: boomop1; NakedRampage

As an ex-mormon I will say the “Temple of Doom” video is poorly done and a bit over the top. However, much of the info contained in it is accurate.

I recommend other sites for learing about Mormonism and its temples.

www.irr.org/mit
www.mormonoutreach.org
www.utlm.org
www.ldsendwoment.org
www.mrm.org


156 posted on 01/28/2012 9:55:50 AM PST by reaganaut (If Romney is a conservative then I'm the frickin Angel Moroni.)
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To: Elsie; Jeff Head; Colofornian; greyfoxx39

That FR of all places would be viewed as a haven for those who would castigate, call liars, demean, and marginalize such a group of people is beyond me and astounding.

- - - - - -
Take it up with your LDS leadership. We are just quoting your leaders and telling of our experiences.


157 posted on 01/28/2012 10:00:43 AM PST by reaganaut (If Romney is a conservative then I'm the frickin Angel Moroni.)
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To: Pollster1

What Romney the bishop, the ‘high priest’ thinks is mormonISM.
Romney is not a conservative, he is a liberal.
Romney is a liberal because of his mormonISM not in spite of it.


158 posted on 01/28/2012 10:03:46 AM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen You up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: Jeff Head
There are few voting block of people who vote more consistantly conservative, more pro-family, more pro-constituion...and whose lives reflect those things than the millions of LDS members in this nation.

You keep making that claim, yet there is no evidence to support it. Please provide the source.

159 posted on 01/28/2012 10:05:45 AM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen You up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: mitchell001
Scared of Mormon president?

Probably after legalizing gay marriages in Massachussetts, he would legalize polygamy on national level *sarcastic grin*

160 posted on 01/28/2012 10:09:38 AM PST by Marguerite (When I'm good, I am very, very good. But! When I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: mitchell001

Does the thought of a Mormon US President scare you?
__________________________________________

We have a Mormon US President right now...


161 posted on 01/28/2012 10:17:04 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana

It is good to keep reminding the uninformed of that! Barry was baptized in abstentia in a mormon temple ceremony. [I liked your sentence about ‘boys being baptised for folks on lists’. Very few non-LDSinc know stuff like that.]


162 posted on 01/28/2012 10:35:51 AM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Timaeus

>Romney’s proper title is Bishop Romney. He is a senior cleric in the Mormon tradition<

And Obama will not play the religion card, wiping the floor with the Good Bishop?

These RINO’s are smoking crack if they believe nominating Romney will give them the White House come November.


163 posted on 01/28/2012 10:40:10 AM PST by Darnright ("I don't trust liberals, I trust conservatives." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca)
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To: MHGinTN; reaganaut; greyfoxx39; Elsie

and a big problem that the Mormons have with Barry being a Mormon because they sealed him to his mother the dead dunked Stanley Ann Dunham is that the only way she could lose her standing as a baptised, and fully endowed temple worthy Mormon is to be excommunicated

and the dead cant be excommunicated

after all who could ever prove she had done something so unMormon since 2008 that her name would be strickened from the rolls ??

Plus shes not 110 yet...

and she hasnt submitted her resignation..

and that sealing between Mom and son is forever as the Mormons are into “forever families”

Thus a bona fide Mormon presidemnt...

a black one to boot..

:)

BTW Joey Smith and the early Mormons never allowed for the undoing of any dead dunking conversions...

Brigham Young must be rolling over in his grave..


164 posted on 01/28/2012 10:57:46 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana
We have a Mormon US President right now...

I hate it when Spell Check lets the wrong word through just because it is a word. The second "m" in "Mormon" is a typo, if you're willing to pretend that the occupant of our White House is eligible for the job he is mishandling.

165 posted on 01/28/2012 10:58:11 AM PST by Pollster1 (Natural born citizen of the USA, with the birth certificate to prove it)
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To: Pollster1

Im not pretending anything...

This is the belief of Mormon bishop and high priest Willird Mitt Romney...

We have a Mormon US President right now...


166 posted on 01/28/2012 11:20:58 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana

Bring’um Young is, as a friend once said of a criminal child abuser, ‘too busy screaming in toasty agony to roll over in a cold grave ...’


167 posted on 01/28/2012 11:30:36 AM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

nice visual image...


168 posted on 01/28/2012 11:35:53 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: svcw

If you want the voting rate, simply look at the breakdowns for the 2010, 2008, 2004, 2000, etc. elections and see what percentage of the people in those states that are highly LDS voted for the Republican candidates, down the line (not unanimously, and with a few pointed exceptions ... like Harry Reid)...use Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, and Nevade (States with the higest percentage of LDS populations) and you will see that those states, particularly Utah and Idaho are among the highest, if not the highest, per captia/percentage voters for conservative candidates in the nation.

That’s easy to research and not in dispute.

With respect to life-style...here’s a whole slew of them, easily found by simply researching LDS or Mormon demographics:


- Utah spends much less of its budget on public welfare than other states. “On average, other states spend 22.4 percent of their budgets on public welfare; Utah spends 14 percent.” Utah also has the lowest Utah has the lowest child poverty rate in the county. [Source: Maria Titze, in Deseret News, 28 April 2000.]

The 2000 Self magazine ranked Provo, Utah as the number 1 healthiest city in the country for women. The article said that the Mormon influence is the reason women in Provo experience such low incidents of cancer, smoking, drinking, violence, depression, etc. [Source: MSNBC]

- In a ranking of “Family Values”, based on marriage rate, divorce rate, suicide rate, AIDS rate data from the World Almanac of the U.S.A. Utah was ranked 4th highest in the nation (with statistics most indicative of traditional family values). The states that ranked higher by this cumulative score were Iowa, Idaho, and South Dakota.

- According to IRS tax returns, Utahns rank first among all U.S. states in the proportion of income given to charity by the wealthy (households with annual gross income of more than $200,000).

- Longstanding Latter-day Saint emphasis on secular education and learning, in addition to religious education, can be seen in federal education statistics. The American Legislative Exchange Council’s (ALEC) Report Card on Education reported that Utah was ranked 7th academically in the nation, despite the fact that the state spent less money (49th in expenditures per pupil) than most other states. [Source: Center for Education Reform, 1001 Connecticut Avenue NW, Suite 204, Washington, D.C.]

- Utah is ranked 2nd in proportion of the population who are high school graduates. 85.1% of Utah’s adult population are high school graduates. (Alaska is ranked 1st, with 86.6. Nationally the figure is 75.2%.) [Source: 1990 Census, U.S. Bureau of the Census, published in Statistical Abstract of the United States 1997 (117th Edition), U.S. Dept. of Commerce, pg. 161.]

- National demographic studies indicate that couples in which both partners are Latter-day Saints (and who marry in a Latter-day Saint temple) have the lowest divorce rate among all U.S. social and religious groups studied. “The divorce rates for Latter-day Saints who marry in the temple are 5.4 percent for men and 6.5 percent for women. source: William Lobdell, Holy Matrimony: In an Era of Divorce Mormon Temple Weddings are Built to Last in Los Angeles Times, 8 April 2000

- The following statistics show where Utah (0ver 75% LDS) scores high in a number of areas, including family, health, crime and education. These statistics cover the entire state. In 2000, Utah was one of only three states to receive a straight-A score in a national report card based on a number of criteria (1).

Families:
Utah ranked highest in the number of married-couple families, with an average of 63.2 percent. (2)
Utah ranked highest in the number of family households, with 76.3 percent. (2)
Utah ranked highest in the number of persons per family, with an average of 3.57. (2)
Utah ranked third for the fewest number of single-headed households with children, with 7.7 percent. (2)

Education in Utah
Utah ranked fourth for the highest population of persons age 25 and over with a high school degree at minimum, totaling 91 percent. (3)
Utah ranked 11th for the highest population of persons age 25 and over with a bachelor’s degree or higher, totaling 27.9 percent. (3)
Utah ranked fifth for the highest percentage of ninth-grade students who graduated within four years, increasing from 77.8 percent in 1999 to 82.3 percent in 2000. (4)

Health in Utah
Utah ranked first for the lowest prevalence of smoking, with 14 percent. (4)
Utah ranked first for the lowest risk for heart disease, and was 20 percent below the national average. (4)
Utah ranked first for the lowest number of cancer cases, with 239.5 cases per 100,000. (4)
Utah ranked first for the lowest number of work days missed within a 30-day period due to illness, averaging under three days per month missed. (4)
Utah ranked second for the lowest overall death rate, with only 5.6 deaths per 1,000. (3)
Utah ranked second for lowest number of heart-disease mortalities, and was the most improved state since 1990. (4)
Utah ranked third for best overall health in 2000, maintaining its high standing in this category during the past decade. (4)
Utah ranked fourth for the lowest infant mortality, and fifth in the nation for lowest total mortality. (4)

Crime in Utah
Utah ranked 12th for the lowest crime rate. (3)
Utah’s index crime rate (murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, burglary, larceny, motor vehicle theft and arson) decreased 12.6 percent. (5)
Utah’s violent crime rate (murder, rape, robbery and aggravated assault) decreased 8.8 percent. (5)
Utah’s violent crime rate was less than half the national rate and represented a 21-year low. (5)
Utah’s property crimes (burglary, larceny, motor vehicle theft and arson) decreased 12.8 percent. (5)
Utah’s property crimesrate was less than half the national rate and represented a 21-year low. (5)
Utah’s burglary rate decreased 8.3 percent. (5)
Utah’s rate was 33 percent lower than the national rate and represented a 21-year low. (5)
Utah’s larceny rate decreased 12.9 percent compared to 1999, and 30.4 percent compared to 1995. This represented a 21-year low. (5)
Utah’s murder rate decreased 3.7 percent compared to 1999, and was nearly one-third of the national rate. This represented a 21-year low. (5)
Utah’s aggravated assault rate decreased 15.1 percent. This represented a 21-year low. (5)
Utah’s arson rate decreased 18.3 percent. (5)
Utah’s rate was less than half the national rate and represented a 21-year low. (5)
Utah’s robbery rate decreased 18.4 percent. (5)
Utah’s motor vehicle theft rate decreased 20.1 percent. (5)
Utah’s rate was 71 percent lower than the national rate. (5)
Utah’s adult arrests for violent crimes decreased 16.3. (5)
Utah’s adult arrests for property crimes decreased 13 percent. (5)

Other Utah Statistics
Utah ranked highest in charitable giving. (1)
Utah was the fourth fastest-growing state, with a 29.6-percent population increase during the past decade. (3*)
Utah’s growth rate more than doubled the nation’s growth rate of 13.2 percent. (3*)
Utah supports 1,000 churches representing 67 religious denominations. (3**)

Sources:
(1) The Corporation for Enterprise Development, “Development Report Card for the States 2000,” www.drc.cfed.org
(2) Utah Government (citing the 2000 Census), www.utah.gov
(3) Economic Development Corporation of Utah (citing the “2001 Economic Report to the Governor”), www.edcutah.org
(3*) Economic Development Corporation of Utah (citing the 2000 Census), www.edcutah.org
(3**) Economic Development Corporation of Utah, www.edcutah.org
(4) United Health Group, “United Health Group State Health Ranking: 2000 Edition,” http://www.unitedhealthgroup.com
(5) Utah Commission on Criminal and Juvenile Justice, “2000 Crime Statistics,” www.justice.state.ut.us
(6) Deseret News 2001-2002


If one spent more time, they could find a lot more. I am sure there are negatvie ones as well...which one owul expect in demographics with millions of adherants. But that was a sampling.

Anyhow, it was not my intent to debate it. These things as regards, health, family values, pregnancy rates, disease, conservative values, have been lonk known and spoken about with respect to the LDS faith. trying to paint a picture of LDS being worse than Obama, liars, decievers...taught to do so by their church...just do not hold, either by the vast majority of experiences people in the church have, or the statistical data which is out there.

Now, some folks do have bad experiences. There are bad apples and I grieve for that and wish that folks would not run across them or have their attitudes and felings hurt, devasted or so negatively impacted.

Whenever that happens, it is wrong.

But the claims made on this thread are simply over the top when it comes to LDS people being tauhgt in church to lie, planning some kind of takeover of the US government, are leftists and liberals by nature of their membershiop in the Church, being just like fundamental Islam which many Americans, inclding many fine LDS personnel are fighting, being wounded and injured and dieing to defeat. It is an insult to their service and the inclinations, beliefs and lives of most active LDS members.

With that, I’ve given my input here...people can make whatever they will of it. It is sincere, reasoned and the truth and I hope folks can rise above these type of claims and feelings and work together with most LDS members who are their allies in the effort to protect our constitutional republic...who believe strongly in their Savior, Jesus Christ, and who want America to adhere to and follow the foundational republican values and morals as set forth in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.


169 posted on 01/28/2012 12:18:31 PM PST by Jeff Head (Liberty is not free. Never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Jeff Head; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; svcw; Zakeet; SkyPilot; rightazrain; Tennessee Nana; ...
There are few voting block of people who vote more consistantly conservative, more pro-family, more pro-constituion...and whose lives reflect those things than the millions of LDS members in this nation.

Sorry, Jeff..you will see this statement turned into a lie by the lock-step mormon support and voting for Romney all over the US in the weeks and possibly months to come.

I commend you for saying you do not support him, but hundreds of thousands of your fellow mormons do, not because he is right, but because he is mormon.

How any mormon can support Romney in the face of his vicious, slandering attacks both in the last election and recently and at the same time call himself a conservative is incredible...read "not credible". I think you would best serve the country by preaching at these identity voters about their ignorance of his character rather than preach at those of us who recognize what he is and what he will do.

I feel for you as the days go by and if he is the nominee, you will see the mormon church held up before the nation for what it really is. It will not be pretty.

170 posted on 01/28/2012 12:21:11 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (Romney seems like a creature put on Earth to blend in with the humans and report back what he finds.)
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To: Jeff Head; Admin Moderator
Jeff, once again you post reams of words with no accompanying source link.

Where does all this information come from?

171 posted on 01/28/2012 12:50:43 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (Romney seems like a creature put on Earth to blend in with the humans and report back what he finds.)
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To: Jeff Head

Jeff, you forgot to include that Utah has the most white collar crime, the most ponzi schemes and the most bankruptcies per capita.

All is not well in Zion and far too many Mormons will vote for a liberal just because he is a Mormon than vote for a conservative who isn’t. the 94% of LDS who voted for Romney last primary speaks volumes.


172 posted on 01/28/2012 1:08:54 PM PST by reaganaut (If Romney is a conservative then I'm the frickin Angel Moroni.)
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To: Zakeet
... and I contend that a person's faith and beliefs are the critical factors in determining an individual's externalized values and resulting actions. In other words, you act according to your beliefs.

Exactly. Well spoken.

Almost all of what is passed off as anti-Mormon bigotry on Free Republic is in reality nothing more than people providing annotated facts (and in some cases personal experiences of ex-Mormons) concerning Mormonism ... and the vast majority of their data is taken directly from LDS sources and historical records. Saints are offered an opportunity to rebut the replies and apologies are offered along with retractions if the information provided is not correct.

I've had several Mormons who worked with or for me in the past and we've had relaxed and upbeat discussions. They all lied through their teeth about practices, beliefs and the whole structure of the LDS. Good workers and employees. But when you have to lie about your beliefs, what does that say?

173 posted on 01/28/2012 1:42:20 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Marguerite
Probably after legalizing gay marriages in Massachussetts, he would legalize polygamy on national level *sarcastic grin*

One of the problems with multiple wives is multiple mothers-in-law. These things do have a way of working out...

174 posted on 01/28/2012 1:44:12 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: greyfoxx39

Read post 169...the sources are listed throughout that post. You don’t have to have links to source something. The sources are in there and listed...all you have to do is read them.

And, BTW, I know literally hundreds of LDS all around me who are not voting for Romney.

What do you make of the 300,000+ citizens thousand who already have voted for him, the vast majority not LDS? In fact a large number of people who call themselves conservative are voting for him...meaning probably many batpists, evangelicals, methodists, etc.

They believe he is a better candidate than Obama...irrespective of what you say...and having enough business experience to warrant their vote in these times. I believe his past stances on the issues are sufficient for me NOT to vote for him through the primaries.

...and I have stated this numerous times and it has nothing to do with his religion. Other people, including a whole lot of non-LDS (as was the case 4 years ago) voted and are voting for the guy. We have to stop by educating them about the issues and not trying to us religion withj rediculopus statements like his is the anti-cChrist and has a plan to take over the US government, but based on his track record and positions as an idividual...which is what I try and do.


175 posted on 01/28/2012 1:59:16 PM PST by Jeff Head (Liberty is not free. Never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Jeff Head
The article said that the Mormon influence is the reason women in Provo experience such low incidents of cancer, smoking, drinking, violence, depression, etc. [Source: MSNBC]

Did I somehow miss the DATA about PROZAC® and/or White Collar Crime in UTAH?

I gotta hand it to you Jeff; you are the BEST at Faith Building stories!

176 posted on 01/28/2012 2:04:49 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Jeff Head

Jeff, still no link but its ok. I am not going to get a swinging contest over these statistics, except I have links that state other information.
So lets get down to this question, why do the ever so conservative lds vote at a rate of 94% for Romney the very liberal guy, and a majority vote for the very liberal guy?
lds do not vote conservative other wise federal office holders who are liberal would not be supported.
You statistics do not jive with who lds vote.


177 posted on 01/28/2012 2:05:24 PM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen You up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: Jeff Head
... women in Provo ...


178 posted on 01/28/2012 2:06:04 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Jeff Head

Jeff, it was Joseph Smith that compared himself to islam. It is the SLC lds that have been partnering with islam for decades.
All of this information has been given to you, and others on FR many times.
It is Joseph Smith who wanted to over throw the US Constitution, all that information has been supplied to you and others on FR many times.


179 posted on 01/28/2012 2:08:11 PM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen You up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: Jeff Head
......which is what I try and do.

 
They would not listen, however, but persisted in their former practices.
Even while these people were worshiping the Lord, they were serving their idols.
To this day their children and grandchildren continue to do as their fathers did.
 
 2 Kings 17:40-41 


180 posted on 01/28/2012 2:08:35 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Jeff Head

Your leader giving a seminar on how to lie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zA-rZQB-xQ
Jeff, you do yourself a disservice to deny the information you have been provided as bogus or distorted when it comes from lds sites.


181 posted on 01/28/2012 2:10:55 PM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen You up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: mitchell001
Mormons help Mormons.

They are shrewd businessmen. They are Jew wannabes. If Romney wins, invest in Mormon headed businesses.

I may be a racist.

182 posted on 01/28/2012 2:11:09 PM PST by Glenn (iamtheresistance.org)
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To: Jeff Head

What do you make of the 300,000+ citizens thousand who already have voted for him, the vast majority not LDS?
_________________________________________________

I say about 200,000 of them were Democrats who want him opposite their Obama in Nov

What say you ???

;)


183 posted on 01/28/2012 2:21:40 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Elsie; Jeff Head
Who you callin' MINOR??? [Written tongue-in-cheek with photo of Watchtower building]

I respect the rights of Jehovah's Witnesses to worship as they choose as well. When I first became in-house at a children's hospital, I surprised their liaison by inviting him to lunch. My two immediate predecessors wouldn't even answer his telephone calls.

I listened to him, brought my Bible to go over the passages he wanted to discuss. I read his materials, including the medical journal articles on blood-free procedures (which were fascinating - especially the ones on cardie-thoracic surgery without blood transfusions) . But I explained our legal obligations as a hospital. I always met with the parents and relatives, as well as the liaison, when we had to go to court.

It's been a few years, but I previously could go toe-to-toe with you on JW blood issues and their Biblical sources and interpretations.

The Jehovah's Witnesses have an interesting growth pattern; they baptize twice as many people each year as become new 'publishers.'

I'll still stick by my reason for reading LDS history - from secular and religious sources, from the LDS Official History of the Church to academic sources, from faithful (Neal A. Maxwell, FARMS, BYU, FAIR, and Desert Publishing related) to non-faithful (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Sunstone, Signature Books, University of Indiana Press):

Mormonism is the only American contribution to the world's major religions.

184 posted on 01/28/2012 3:43:00 PM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: gswilder
I expected the media and the democrats to bring up religion, but not conservatives.
Yes, because conservatives aren't interested in religion ... oh, wait ... yes, we kind of are.
185 posted on 01/28/2012 6:21:06 PM PST by Timaeus (Willard Mitt Romney Delenda Est)
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To: svcw

svcw, he did not teach anyone how to lie. He was teaching a group of missionaries how to bring the discussion back to a central point from which they can teach.

I do not happen to agree with how he proposed to do that for the very reasons you are trying to illicit...that is, without any intent to do so, people like yourself, looking for a reason, will say they are deceiving people (which is not their intent at all). I personally would not deflect the question but would answer it with scripture from the Bible which would serve to support our interpretation, and then I would proceed to go where he went and ask them if they want to know why we have come to believe that.

IMHO, something like that is not a very good video for you to use to try and say that Mormons teach their members to lie. You have taken a speech given to LDS Missionaries who are specifically sent out to teach about the Restoratioon of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and Him crucified through Joseph Smith and an individual trying to help them not get bushwacked and sidetracked away from that goal by all sorts of questions that are usually meant to attack.

As I said, I would address it and approach it differently and myself have taught missionaries and prospective missionaries the to do so.

Anyhow...we could go on with this all night...and I do not intend to do so. The Church is large with millions of members. They are not perfect by any stretch. They make mistakes...we all do.

I do not agree with the method this individual used, for the reason I just explained. I have taught differently, both at the Mission Training Center in Provo years ago, and where I have lived since.

But I have also found that people can just about find whatever they want to find when you are talking about a population of millions.

I see the good fruit from the church and there is a whole lot of it. You concentrate on the bad fruit and there is some of that too because people are human.

In the end, the Savior, and God in Heaven will judge us all by our hearts and true acceptance of Him in our hearts and souls. The church brings people to Christ...the interpretations are different than yours, but the central, critical point is that Christ Jesus saves, and His atonement alone.

Bringing people to Christ is a good thing and I appluad anyone who does so, to whatever degree they can, and to whateve measure of His truth they have...all of that is good and is a boon to our nation.

God bless you for your own efforts in that regard. I will continue doing the same from the perspective I have through the Holy Ghost and try and help people by so doing, not the least of which have been my own family, kids and grandkids.


186 posted on 01/28/2012 6:32:32 PM PST by Jeff Head (Liberty is not free. Never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Jeff Head

“The fruit”, (assuming here ‘by their fruit you shall know them’) has to do with false prophets.
Jeff, you use a lot of words to explain the most simple of concepts. The video was one of the lds leader teaching other lds how to avoid answering questions, how to change the subject and NOT answer direct questions about mormonISM.
Sorry, in this universe that is lying.


187 posted on 01/28/2012 6:59:29 PM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen You up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: reaganaut; Elsie
You two sure know how to liven up a LDS party.

This one is calling you both : #186 as I watched the whole training video after Elsie posted a link to it.

There is also the part where they teach them not to defend their beliefs, which they call arguing or debate as bad. Better to seek those that are easy targets.

188 posted on 01/28/2012 7:10:59 PM PST by sickoflibs (You MUST support the lesser of two RINOs or we all die!)
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To: Jedidah

Personally I don’t care how the Dems use Romney’s religion against him in the general. The party of Romney is no party of mine. I’d write in “Santa Claus” before voting for that pandering fraud.


189 posted on 01/28/2012 7:18:17 PM PST by EagleInGA
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To: svcw

No...he did not.

He simply taught them how to stay on point and task when confonted with a question that would lead them away from what they are sent out to teach. He did not tell them to decieve, he did not tell them to answer untruthfully, he simple taught them to ask a differnt question so they can accomplish what they are sent out to do.

I also indicated that I did not agree with that approach for the reasons I explained and that I myself have taught in that same Missionary Training Center, and now later in other places I have lived, how to do so per what I outlined above.

I also tried to explain...and you like to call it wordy because it provides important background that refutes these huge claims and accusation you make...that there are millions of LDS and that they all are human and do not all do things that you or I agree with.

That does not make them liars...though there are certainly those that do that too. If you want to find them...you can. If you want to find good...you can also.


190 posted on 01/28/2012 7:24:46 PM PST by Jeff Head (Liberty is not free. Never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Jeff Head

So then let me ask you, when your past leaders have said it was reveled to them there are Quaker like people on the moon, do you agree?
So then let me ask you when your leaders have taught/teach that you will get your own planet and become a god, do you agree?
So then me ask which of the fourteen first visions do you beleive to be “the truth”?
Just wondering.


191 posted on 01/28/2012 7:38:09 PM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen You up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: svcw

With apologies to Jim Morrison and the Doors (Riders on the Storm):

Quakers on the Moon
Quakers on the Moon
It really is a boon
To have Quakers on the Moon
If you give a man a gun, he’ll really have some fun
Quakers on the Moon

There’s a Mormon on the road
J Smith is squirming like a toad
Take a great big tithe
And a polygamous wife
If you give this man a vote
You’re hist’ry and I quote
Mormon on the road

You gotta love your Newt
You gotta love your Newt
Your vote you gotta cast
8 years he’s gotta last
On him we all depend
Our country never end
Gotta love your Newt

Romney’s on the stump
Romney’s on the stump
This nation we must save
For the free and for the brave
We’re not a Romney fan
Newt’s our go-to man
Romney’s on the stump

Take the Romney down
Vote for Newt right now
Take the Romney down
Vote for Newxt right now


192 posted on 01/28/2012 7:57:02 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr

Hmm; in rereading this, it sounds like I’m advocating violence against Quakers; didn’t mean it to come out that way. The juxtaposition of guns against the Quaker non violence seemed good at the moment of composition, however, I don’t want anyone to get the wrong idea...


193 posted on 01/28/2012 8:05:02 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr

;-)


194 posted on 01/28/2012 8:19:18 PM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen You up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: MarkBsnr; greyfoxx39; colorcountry; Utah Binger; Elsie; mrreaganaut; T Minus Four; svcw; ...

That is hilarious!!!


195 posted on 01/28/2012 8:21:17 PM PST by reaganaut (If Romney is a conservative then I'm the frickin Angel Moroni.)
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To: Jeff Head; reaganaut; Elsie
RE :”No...he did not. He simply taught them how to stay on point and task when confonted with a question that would lead them away from what they are sent out to teach. He did not tell them to decieve, he did not tell them to answer untruthfully, he simple taught them to ask a differnt question so they can accomplish what they are sent out to do.

Well then please relay exactly how they recruited you to LDS. What was the exact back and forth exchange between you and them; and what did they say that convinced you that they were Christians?

I watched the whole Bob Millet lecture at another link.

196 posted on 01/28/2012 8:32:15 PM PST by sickoflibs (You MUST support the lesser of two RINOs or we all die!)
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To: MarkBsnr

Oh, I thought you were referencing Smith’s attempted prison break, where he got killed. He accidentally shot his brother in the back, if I recall correctly.

On the other hand, now I’ll be singing that song all night! Oh noes!


197 posted on 01/28/2012 8:35:52 PM PST by mrreaganaut (See the wild curelom herds at Zion National Park!)
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To: mitchell001

Liberal Romney scares me. The mormon church isn’t even a blip on my radar screen, and anyone who seriously thinks that there is any real danger of a mormon “theocratic” takeover of the USA needs to get help.


198 posted on 01/28/2012 8:38:20 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Jeff Head; svcw; Elsie; reaganaut; greyfoxx39; Tennessee Nana; MHGinTN

Well, that sure explains alot.

You are flat wrong (or are you practicing the art of deceit?) when you say that Robert Millet is not "telling" them (Mormon missionaries) to deceive.

Not only is he teaching them to deceive, he is teaching them how to manipulate and control. Apparently you teach people the same art.

Manipulating people is bad enough ...

Teaching young people how to deceive, manipulate and control; having them do it in the very homes of their targets; and titling them missionaries is beyond revolting. In my opinion, it's evil.

199 posted on 01/28/2012 9:14:02 PM PST by delacoert
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To: delacoert

Um, I don’t think you’re supposed to out Jeff. Folks are supposed to take what he says without questioning, after all, even he has taught the stuff Robert teaches, and Jeff doesn’t realize it is purposed decetion, so we’re supposed to give him a pass, don’tchaknow.


200 posted on 01/28/2012 9:51:58 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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