Posted on 01/27/2012 2:37:35 PM PST by pinochet
The great British preacher John Newton had a friend, a poet by the name of William Cowper, who along with Newton wrote hymns which eventually were compiled in the Olney Hymnal. Cowper’s more noted contributions to this hymnal were “Oh, for a closer walk with God” and “There is a fountain filled with blood.”......Sadly, we find documented in Forbes Winslow’s Anatomy of Suicide (written in 1840) that Cowper has tried more than once to take his own life. As psychiatrist and Christian author John White puts it, “Here then we are presented with a gifted and Godly man, a man the Holy Spirit used to produce hymns to exalt the Lamb of God… yet (he is)… only one of many Christians who have struggled against the shame and horror of trying to take their own lives – some successfully, others unsuccessfully.” (White 146)
Anyone who professes Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord may find this statement shocking. After all, Jesus came that we may have a full life (John 10:10). The scriptures are overflowing with the hope and love that is found in the gospel of Jesus Christ. We are taught that those who believe have been washed, made new and been forgiven. Our guilt and shame has been removed and we have been set free from the power of sin and death. Therefore, a deep religious faith (in God) should keep people from taking their own lives. And yet there are Christians who do take their own lives.[1] Although Christians have at their disposal the emotional supports needed they are just as susceptible to committing suicide as anyone else, and may in fact do commit suicide in similar numbers to non-believers. It seems as absurd for a Christian to commit suicide as it is for someone who instantly became a millionaire to take his own life. Yet both have done this.
White addresses the fable that Christians do not commit suicide. “Godly patients have looked at me in the eye and told me despairingly, ‘My faith has gone’ … so delicate is the balance between madness and sanity that the strongest Christians can become victims of suicidal despair” [emphasis mine] (White 167). Some do question though whether a true Christian would commit suicide.
There is a strong taboo among Christians, in acknowledging that even faithful Christians can struggle with suicidal feelings. This makes it hard for people to seek help from pastors and Christian counsellors, because their suicidal feelings are taken as evidence that they are not truly devoted to their faith.
One lovely lady in our Church committed suicide nine years ago. Her public image was that of a perfect wife and mother, and a devoted believer who was in the Church choir. Subjects like this are very difficult to talk about.
Suicide is not always about emotions.
Christians are not immune to depression. The much lauded preacher, Charles Spurgeon, apparently had many deep episodes. Not suicidal though as far as I know.
That said Christians have a hope and a Comforter, and we all must preach the gospel to ourselves daily, as it were, reminding ourselves of God’s presence, mercy and sovereignty.
Also taking care to remind our fellow believers of the same thing. Just having a friend tell me, “God will take care of you,” when expressing a serious problem, is a reassuring reminder.
Christian despair. There is the temptation at the Garden of Gethsemane. Something that tried even Jesus. Some, weaker or more weakened, succumb to the terrible seduction of despair.
“Stay and pray with me.”
Do not sleep, when your brother or sister is in extremis.
“Suicide is not always about emotions.”
Rommel comes to mind. Sometimes there are objective reasons.
Rarely.
Christians suffer more than those who ignore religious matters as a general rule. Why? Satan despises Christians and will torment them to try to get them to repudiate their faith.
So, if you find a Christian who has committed suicide, it is due to pain.
Ministers are often attacked through their children.
He certainly could not be faulted for attempting to take his own life. He was in constant combat with some hideous demons.
It seems weird that a Christian would be more worried about his image with a Pastor or Priest, than he would be about seeking help before he does such a heinous thing.
Faith in Jesus says that He will care for us and that all things work together for good to them that serve Him. Wouldn’t suicide indicate a lack of faith? Faith in Christ is what makes one a Christian. If one lacks that faith can they ba called a Christian?
I sat still on a stone by the river's side feeling as miserable as I ever felt in my life. Hitherto it had not occurred to me to doubt the intentions of the Solid People, nor to question the essential goodness of their country even if it were a country which I could not long inhabit. It had indeed once crossed my mind that if these Solid People were as benevolent as I had heard one or two of them claim to be, they might have done something to help the inhabitants of the Town-something more than meeting them on the plain. Now a terrible explanation came into my mind. How if they had never meant to do us good at all? How if this whole trip were allowed the Ghosts merely to mock them? Horrible myths and doctrines stirred in my memory. I thought how the Gods had punished Tantalus. I thought of the place in the Book of Revelation where it says that the smoke of Hell goes up forever in the sight of the blessed spirits. I remembered how poor Cowper, dreaming that he was not after all doomed to perdition, at once knew the dream to be false and said, "These are the sharpest arrows in His quiver."
Ping to a thought provoking subject.
I think suicide can be decided within 5 seconds. One brief moment of despair and the “Dutch Act” - as we used to call it.
Philippians 1
21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. 25 Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith, 26 so that through my being with you again your boasting in Christ Jesus will abound on account of me.
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I’ve heard it argued that Paul was vocally discussing suicide.
>>>>Christians suffer more than those who ignore religious matters as a general rule. Why? Satan despises Christians and will torment them to try to get them to repudiate their faith
Excellent point. We live in a world where, those who defend Bibilical values are called “bigots”, “haters”, and “intolerant”.
Those who believe that the definition of marriage is one man getting married to one woman, are called “haters” by the liberal media. Those who oppose abortion are called enemies of women’s health. Students who try to maintain their Christian faith in secular universities go through hell. The attacks from the secular world do take a toll.
Yet, within the Church, people try to present an image of picture-perfect happy families. If a family is going through problems, they try to keep it within the family, to avoid embarassment. They find it hard to share their pain with others, because personal struggles are seen as evidence of insufficient faith.
It's very easy to judge others. Chronic depression is many times caused by something wrong with brain chemistry. That is a physical problem manifesting itself in despair and hopelessness, regardless of faith. They aren't thought processes, they are deep emotional feelings that can overwhelm someone.
Besides, it isn't up to you to judge whether someone who has committed suicide was a Christian or not, that is up to God.
I am so sorry for the tragic losses in your family. My understanding is that salvation is a work done wholly by God through His Son Jesus Christ.
The scripture says in Romans 8 paraphrased: nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus. Therefore mental illness and suicide cannot separate a true child of God from His love.
Whatever the Church’s decisions about where our mortal remains may be buried, we can take comfort that the destination of our eternal souls rest at the sole discretion of a holy, gracious and loving God who knows us and accepts us in His Son Jesus Christ.
If anyone wants a link to the sermon I'll find it.
“Faith in Jesus says that He will care for us and that all things work together for good to them that serve Him”
That’s why God gave us medical doctors and medicines to treat a “clinical depression” ( ie, biological -physiological)..and being suicidal is certainly indicative of a clinical depression that needs medical treatment.
It is only since the 1950’s that we have had anti-depressants to address the brain neuronal imbalance that causes suicidal depression, not “just being a little sad or down”. Prior to that people were just locked up in insane asylums.
I am amazed , that in 2012, people who have a serious medical mental illness ( clinical depression; schizophrenia or bi-polar disorder ) are still being told its because they “lack faith” or have demons.
Someone who is suicidal, needs 1) hospitalization for the crisis 2) medications to deal with the neurological imbalance 3) therapy if needed 4) loving support from family and friends 5) and yes, by all means, prayer,
I’m surprised they didn’t bury her. The contemporary thinking is that we really don’t know what that person was doing - did they repent at the last moment? Was it too late to go back but they wanted to live? Did they have a mental illness?
The better answer, fortunately, is charity. “Betwixt the stirrup and the ground, I mercy asked, I mercy found.” We don’t know what happened.
William Cowper was a much greater figure than John Newton.
However, before I was diagnosed, thoughts of suicide would race through my brain. At NO time while that was happening, did I question my faith, lack faith, or turn my back on Christ. In fact, I leaned on Him more than in any other time of my life. YET, the thoughts were still there. Why? It was NOT from lack of faith or distance from God. It was simply the disease effecting my rational thought. During depressive episodes, serotonin is not produced in the brain in adequate amounts and, in short, your brain is firing but not make necessary neurological connections that are needed for clear and rational thought.
PLEASE, I implore you to take time out and inform yourself regarding mental illness.
While I am sure you meant, no offense, so none was taken, it is the prevailing thought within the body of Christ, such as yours, that suppresses the suffering Christian to seek help from fellow believers.
Muscular dystrophy, drug resistant tuberculosis, terminal cancer, and other incurable ailments.
Among people who suffer chronic sexual abuse as children, suicide is second only to overdose as a cause of death (and these two are followed in turn by eating disorders.) That isn't just depression, its an escape from flashbacks and memories.
Suicide is not God's plan. It is not God's best.
But for some people, it is merely hurrying the only relief that will ever come absent a miracle from God.
Is it wrong? Yes.
It is also understandable.
Wouldn’t suicide indicate a lack of faith?
Perhaps. But there are sincere believers who struggle with suicidal feelings. If they get help, those suicidal feelings will not result in suicide.
However, some believers find it difficult to talk to pastors and counsellors of their suicidal feelings, because those feelings would be viewed as evidence of a lack of faith.
It is easier for people in the secular world who struggle with suicidal thoughts, to get the help that they need. But it is much harder for Christians with suicidal feelings to talk about those feelings with therapists, because of fear of being labelled unfaithful.
A believer is always expected to display a life of joy, that comes from knowing Christ. Openly acknowledging that one has suicidal thoughts is taboo, and opens one to accusations that one does not really have Christ in his life.
>>>>>Wouldn’t suicide indicate a lack of faith?
Perhaps. But there are sincere believers who struggle with suicidal feelings. If they get help, those suicidal feelings will not result in suicide.
However, some believers find it difficult to talk to pastors and counsellors of their suicidal feelings, because those feelings would be viewed as evidence of a lack of faith.
It is easier for people in the secular world who struggle with suicidal thoughts, to get the help that they need. But it is much harder for Christians with suicidal feelings to talk about those feelings with therapists, because of fear of being labelled unfaithful.
A believer is always expected to display a life of joy, that comes from knowing Christ. Openly acknowledging that one has suicidal thoughts is taboo, and opens one to accusations that one does not really have Christ in his life.
1 Corinthians 2: 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
Thank you for your kind words. I take much comfort in knowing that she is with God. She was such a beautiful person, inside and out; full of warmth which she graciously extended to anyone she met. Only God could have created such beauty and I know in my heart he welcomed her home and made her whole again.
I’d love to have a link if you can find it.
This is a subject very near to my heart. Three in my family have taken their own lives ; one being my own Mother , who indeed is a Christian.
I suppose one could make a case from Jesus’s statement that if your eye offends you, pluck it out. If your hand offends you, cut it off. Better to go into life blind or maimed than, being whole, cast into ever lasting fire. What if someone perceives that his very existence offends him and wants to take himself out before he sins?
I suppose a person could omit pertinent information to the cemetery since there is no death certificate at the time of the burial but that would be lying by omission and I shudder to think of what could happen if they were to find out.
>>>>While I am sure you meant, no offense, so none was taken, it is the prevailing thought within the body of Christ, such as yours, that suppresses the suffering Christian to seek help from fellow believers
Thanks for sharing your struggles with us.
There is a strong taboo in Christian Churches, against Christians who suffer from deep depression, especially those who have suicidal feelings.
The general stereotype is that, suicidal feelings are associated with people in the secular world, because of their lack of faith in Christ. But we are told that coming to Christ ends such suffering, and one is supposed to live happily ever after, because of the joy that comes with knowing Christ.
But many in the churches fail to acknowledge that chemical imbalances in the brain cause depression and suicidal feelings, and they can affect Christians and non-Christians alike. It is very important that we built a culture whereby, Christians can confess their pain and suffering to fellow believers, without being accused of insufficient faith.
Nothing in a Christians walk precludes taking advantage of medical advances. Nothing was said about not taking into account medical or neurological conditions. Faith also includes relying sometimes on fellow Christians to be God’s instruments.
Lack of faith?:
“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”
Instant suicide? not really.
I don’t see suicide being different from any other sin Christians regularly commit. If they were saved by grace, what does it matter? They’ll just have an unforgiven sin they have to account for on judgement day.
My opinion and that's all it is, is that God gave us the gift of life and to end it prematurely is against His wishes.
If you are suffering pain from end stage cancer, I don't know what to think, would He want you to suffer or is it a bad idea to take things into your own hands playing God?
That makes no sense in the context of the passage.
Anakrino
examine or judge to investigate, examine, enquire into, scrutinise, sift, question specifically in a forensic sense of a judge to hold an investigation to interrogate, examine the accused or witnesses to judge of, estimate, determine (the excellence or defects of any person or thing. [http://www.biblestudytools.com/search/?q=anakrino&s=References&rc=LEX&rc2=LEX+GRK]
Look at the verse again. Notice the “yet he himself is judged of no man”. That would indicate judging those around us. We must make a determination as to the motivations of others.
1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
Claiming to never judge is naïve.
Guess you’ve never suffered extreme depression. It can lead to very quick, very bad decisions about life or death. Do you honestly think that people who throw themselves out of windows (as opposed to steathily planning their own demise by hanging or collecting pills) have thought that through? There are as many types of suicides as there are of people. Sad, sad, sad.
I’m so sorry for your loss! Suicide does tend to run in families as Mariel Hemingway has pointed out. She has taken up the cause of suicidal depression after the death of her sister, Margot.
"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither DEATH, nor LIFE, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Rom. 8:35-39).
Our life cannot separate us. Our death cannot separate us, if we are in Christ. And we are in Christ if we are saved.
So, what is it that a Christian loses if he takes his life? And what is it that Satan gains?
"Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us; we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."2 Cor. 5:14-21.
Satan has two goals. To keep unbelievers from the Cross and the gospel of their salvation. And to keep believers from preaching the cross and the gospel of their salvation to unbelievers.
When a believer commits suicide, he has given up his God given commission to preach the finished work of Christ to unbelievers. And has effectually given Satan another chance to deceive unbelievers. Someone who may have been reached by the gospel of God's grace by that person who decided to end his life. That is why suicide is so bad. It cuts off another chance to hear/preach the gospel of the grace of God. That believer was and will always be in Christ. That is God's promise to us. But his work in Christ's stead, preaching the reconciliation of God and man has forever been cut off.
That was my point, “great depression” does not come on in 5 seconds.
“Claiming to never judge is naïve.”
I wasn’t questioning you wondering about someone’s lack of faith. Just that a weak faith (in my limited understanding conveyed by the “poor in spirit”) is understood by God.
As one who has contemplated suicide, you really do need to hang on to the promises in the Bible that God loves you, is there in ALL circumstances, and can turn ALL things to a good use.
Never said that we can not discern and judge. I do it all day long. But for you to act like you can know that mind and heart of a believer that may have committed suicide is ubsurd.
that is all
Never said that we can not discern and judge. I do it all day long. But for you to act like you can know that mind and heart of a believer that may have committed suicide is ubsurd.
that is all
Among people who suffer chronic sexual abuse as children, suicide is second only to overdose as a cause of death (and these two are followed in turn by eating disorders.) That isn’t just depression, its an escape from flashbacks and memories.
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Most overdoses are suicides.
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