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It's the end of the world as they know it
Daily Mail ^ | 1/23/12 | REUTERS REPORTER

Posted on 01/28/2012 9:02:34 PM PST by Kartographer

When Patty Tegeler looks out the window of her home overlooking the Appalachian Mountains in southwestern Virginia, she sees trouble on the horizon. 'In an instant, anything can happen,' she told Reuters. 'And I firmly believe that you have to be prepared.' Ms Tegeler is among a growing subculture of Americans who refer to themselves informally as 'preppers.'

Ready for anything: Chuck Izzo, a "prepper" sits in his basement where he stores wood pellets to fuel his woodstove, an alternative heat source in his home Some are driven by a fear of imminent societal collapse, others are worried about terrorism, and many have a vague concern that an escalating series of natural disasters is leading to some type of environmental cataclysm. They are following in the footsteps of hippies in the 1960s who set up communes to separate themselves from what they saw as a materialistic society, and the survivalists in the 1990s who were hoping to escape the dictates of what they perceived as an increasingly secular and oppressive government.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: preparedness; prepperping; preppers; survivalping
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The words that no prepper wants to hear: "We are from the Government and are here to help you.
1 posted on 01/28/2012 9:02:36 PM PST by Kartographer
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To: Kartographer

Ominous black clouds of doom cover the edge of the horizon, the lightening is flashing and there is the distant sound of thunder! The storm flags are going up, who you heed them?

I think that at best we are in for a collapse much like that of Argentina. A excellent 12 part documentary on the economic collapse of Argentina can be see on YouTube with part one here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH6_i8zuffs

I am very aware that if it’s the great end as foretold in the Bible that there is nothing I can do to stop or change it, but history is full of instances and times when man or nature have caused such a calamity that people have cried out and begged God to end it all.

The bible has many verse such as this:

A prudent man sees danger and takes refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.
NIV Proverbs 22:3

This verse and others are there for a reason and I urge all to take heed of them, because we are clearly on the edge. Everyday there is a new story about the ‘Yutes’ who grow more restless everyday and when you add the fact that because of the economy people are already on edge it won’t take much to set things off.

Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:

“Star Trek: Deep Space Nine: The Siege of AR-558 (#7.8)” (1998)
Quark: Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They’re a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don’t believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes.

Today we have ‘yutes’ who roam our streets who are with out morals, without respect for law or life itself. They will look are you with the same ‘doll eyes’ a shark does before he eats you and they will feel no more compassion than the shark does.

That will be the test of many. Most preppers I know are Christian people and they will hesitate to do what they might have to do to stop the ‘yutes’. On the other hand the ‘yutes’ won’t think twice nor lose a minute of sleep, in fact they will smile and laugh about it.

For those who are just starting or are old hands at prepping you may find my Preparedness Manual helpfull. You can download it at:

http://www.tomeaker.com/kart/preparedness1i.pdf


2 posted on 01/28/2012 9:03:11 PM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: appalachian_dweller; OldPossum; DuncanWaring; VirginiaMom; CodeToad; goosie; kalee; ...

Prepper’s PING!


3 posted on 01/28/2012 9:04:03 PM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer

Could I be added to you ping list please. Be gentle it’s my first ping list


4 posted on 01/28/2012 9:14:11 PM PST by FishinTX (Annoy liberals, VOTE NEWT.)
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To: FishinTX

You have been added, but a word of warning some of your fellow Texans consider me as being in the same vein as Phil Sheridan and Al Sieber. ;-)


5 posted on 01/28/2012 9:20:03 PM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer

This newbie to preparedness thanks you.
God Bless.


6 posted on 01/28/2012 9:24:52 PM PST by matchgirl (Welcome Home, American Heroes)
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To: Kartographer

Also please add me to your ping list.


7 posted on 01/28/2012 9:27:31 PM PST by matchgirl (Welcome Home, American Heroes)
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To: Kartographer; All

Know What Your Gov't Is Up To
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On The WWW #1 Conservative Site
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8 posted on 01/28/2012 9:31:33 PM PST by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: Kartographer

I am a prepper and very aware that it has become a compulsion personally and nationally. We are truly neurotic about preparing for the worst. It seems to have come about mostly from our unconstitutional socialist leader and what he may have in store for us up ahead. He certainly has not instilled national confidence. He got here by deception and the backing of evil (Soros) money. It is doubtful he will leave peacefully and the country is preparing for what that may mean. It is shameful that the pretender has brought us to this. But we are “Can-Do” people and we will do what we have to to protect ourselves and our country.


9 posted on 01/28/2012 9:32:51 PM PST by Rapscallion (Beware that we do not allow a Gestapo to form and call it Homeland Security.)
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To: Kartographer

Please add me to your list as well.


10 posted on 01/28/2012 9:40:19 PM PST by theirjustdue
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To: Kartographer

Another good Apocalypse show is a British show called Survivors. When folks try to reestablish government they take a census of remaining folks and those who have skills are forced to work for the good of the community.


11 posted on 01/28/2012 9:41:26 PM PST by Sawdring
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To: Kartographer
I could easily be a prepper. BUT, before you decide to be a hermit and prepare for the end of the world, I would like to challenge you.

Look at this video of Allen West and Newt Gingrich and tell me what they are saying is not a better answer:

Newt Gringrich-Palm Beach County GOP Lincoln Day Dinner (Allen West 1st)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2839521/posts

January 28, 2012

It is TIME to rout the Commie Bastards that are causing this calamity.

12 posted on 01/28/2012 9:54:55 PM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: Texas Fossil

Being a hermit is not a requirement of being a prepper. And to tell you the truth the Federal Government has grown so large and so deep into debt I refer you to post #1. Newt is a Million times better than the Communist Kenyan we have now, but Newt is still a big Government guy and if he wins I see the growth and the reaching subsiding but I seriously doubt we will see any ‘rollback’ that amounts to anything close to what needs to be done.


13 posted on 01/28/2012 10:02:00 PM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer

Since I am unaware of those two individuals at this time. I shall remain on your ping list but will stay at a safe distance. Just in case.


14 posted on 01/28/2012 10:07:12 PM PST by FishinTX (Annoy liberals, VOTE NEWT.)
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To: Kartographer
a word of warning some of your fellow Texans consider me as being in the same vein as Phil Sheridan and Al Sieber

I had forgotten I was mad at you. Thanks for reminding me about it.

15 posted on 01/28/2012 10:07:48 PM PST by sockmonkey
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To: Kartographer

ping ?


16 posted on 01/28/2012 10:08:10 PM PST by snooter55 (People may doubt what you say, but they will always believe what you do)
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To: Kartographer

Bible and Star Trek quotes, I love it!


17 posted on 01/28/2012 10:17:00 PM PST by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Kartographer

I love it when EUrope writes about America. They are just do darned cute.


18 posted on 01/28/2012 11:04:01 PM PST by Mike Darancette (11/06/2012: Starts "Occupy the White House")
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To: Kartographer
Scouting taught me “Be prepared”. Words to “live” by.
19 posted on 01/28/2012 11:07:07 PM PST by fella ("As it was before Noah, so shall it be again.")
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To: Kartographer
The further you are removed from large population centers, the safer you will be, for sure you'll have more freedom. Honestly, I don't see a total collapse as some do. I see high prices, economic problems that make today's look like kindergarten, and people getting use to doing for themselves.

Just imagine all those who have become completely dependent on entitlements, pensions, disability, and all the govt assistance programs that enslave those who accept it.

20 posted on 01/28/2012 11:10:18 PM PST by Eska
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To: Rapscallion

Preparedness is a human tradition, an American tradition, and huge during the 1950s,1960s,1970s, and 1980s.

It never goes out of style, I grew up with it, I have a small collection of pamphlets from 1961 through the 1980s.

What changed in the pamphlets, is the tone from the government. It used to be adult to adult, man to man, government to veteran, adult, father of the household facts, data, graphs, percentages, hard nosed scenarios and practical ways to deal with them.

In time it became more condescending, government talking down in simple terms to simple people, in nonthreatening generalities, with simple advice, a little food, some water, flashlights and batteries.


21 posted on 01/28/2012 11:10:39 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: Kartographer

All of the shelters, dried food, water, etc, is fine for short term natural disasters, but little good for societal collapse, or a radical Marxist government.

Such a disaster will last many months or years, as in central/east Europe when the soviets took over.

I left America for good in 2004, not because I was worried about collapse of the society/government, but as a lifestyle choice.
As I see the foundation of America crumbling, however, I am now very thankful that I got out when I did.
America will never return to the days of 10+ years ago.

While I was first in central Europe, I am now in the Philippines, a poor third world country.

Life here is great for me.
I can live very nicely on $700 per month (two adults and one baby boy).
We live on a beach in the best part of our town, paying $100 rent, and have all the modern conveniences from A/C, microwave, fridge to satellite TV. We want for nothing.
We are also rich compared to most people around us.

I use to get a few “dog in a manger” cracks from some FReepers, but no more.
I now get some asking for how they can escape from America.

I have to admit that I was 60 when I left, and I know it would be tough for a younger man with family to leave, but for many it should be considered an option.


22 posted on 01/28/2012 11:11:32 PM PST by AlexW
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To: AlexW
Have a friend who imported a Philippino girl, great wife actually. They had several kids and now also considering moving back to Philippines, cost of living so cheap he claims.

What spooks me is that I feel quite safe here along the Yukon, quite rural & self sufficient. I had an old neighbor move to Guatamala a few years back, got robbed and hacked to death with machetes. Should have stayed in Alaska, he had all kinds of guns & security here.

23 posted on 01/28/2012 11:22:48 PM PST by Eska
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To: Eska

okay.
“imported wives”

“living in the Phillipines”

60 years old with small chidren?

Stay where you are and don’t come back.


24 posted on 01/28/2012 11:34:22 PM PST by acapesket
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To: acapesket

Sorry I got you mixed up with Alex W!
Both of you are a bit out there


25 posted on 01/28/2012 11:36:49 PM PST by acapesket
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To: Eska

“Should have stayed in Alaska, he had all kinds of guns & security here.”
__________________________________

Well, I guess Alaska would be as safe as anywhere in the world, but much, if not most, of America is decaying rapidly.
My birth city of Memphis, since being taken over by the blacks, is now murder capital of America.
Fortunately, it is mostly inter tribal killing.

As for the Philippines, I live out in the provinces on Cebu, listed by Travel and Leisure Magazine as the third best island in all of Asia.
I have seen no violence here, but a big city like Manila
is a place I would never care to visit, and, of course, I would not live in any Muzi territory as on Mindanao.


26 posted on 01/28/2012 11:44:45 PM PST by AlexW
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To: AlexW

I don’t mean to seem like I’m judging your choice to leave — you have every right to protect and provide for your family as you see best. I hear you. But I’m not sure the Philippines was the best choice.

China is getting more aggressive, and the Philippine navy wouldn’t last minutes in a fight with them. You can’t count on the US coming to your aid, just as Israel cannot count on us anymore. It depends on who is in office.

Perhaps you might consider having a fall-back plan in case things get tense? You could work on building a few relationships with some ship captains or pilots, who could then be persuaded to give you passage out of the country if the Chinese decide to act on their desires.


27 posted on 01/28/2012 11:49:06 PM PST by PastorBooks
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To: acapesket
Friend of mine is in late 30's has been married to his imported wife 10 years here in Alaska. Has a place here in Ak and plans to spend winters over there; he works 6 months here during Ak summers. He claims it's good living there. His wife really is a great wife, no joke.

I've been married 26 years to girl from my home town, my kids are all in college, ain't going nowheres, luv life in rural Alaska; even the minus 47 it now is tonight. I live along the Yukon, no road to where I live most the year, no cell phones, or taxes, or govt, or law enforcement, or services. Pretty much live off moose, caribou, salmon and what I grow in my garden; my quality of life is great.

28 posted on 01/29/2012 12:00:07 AM PST by Eska
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To: AlexW

Wouldn’t mind doing that.

Of course, to have the $700 per month, I would need to stay put and keep working. It’d be a heckuva commute.


29 posted on 01/29/2012 12:09:20 AM PST by ExGeeEye (Islam: a transnational fascist government that demands worship.)
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To: Kartographer

Today’s preppers, as they call us, have NOTHING to do with hippies. Who writes this $hit?


30 posted on 01/29/2012 12:10:52 AM PST by packrat35 (When will we admit we are now almost a police state?)
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To: acapesket

““imported wives””
“Stay where you are and don’t come back”
_______________________________________

Obviously, your reading comprehension is somewhat lacking.
Imported wives? Where did I say that?

Go back and study how and why America was founded.
I suppose if this were the 1700s and you were back in Europe, you would be saying the same thing to the founding fathers.

One last point..
I will damn well stay wherever I want.
You can be sure I would never set foot in YOUR state.
Tennessee, my home, is the only state that I would consider even visiting.

I thought all you “dog in a manger” sourpusses had left FR.

Have a nice day.


31 posted on 01/29/2012 12:15:22 AM PST by AlexW
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To: acapesket

What’s an “imported wife”?


32 posted on 01/29/2012 12:23:13 AM PST by SIDENET ("If that's your best, your best won't do." -Dee Snider)
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To: PastorBooks

“China is getting more aggressive, and the Philippine navy wouldn’t last minutes in a fight with them”
_______________________________________

China would be the least of my worries here.
They have no more motive to expand their dominance to the Philippines, then any other country close to them.
They have all they can do manufacturing and selling their goods here and everywhere else in the world.
Just today I was reading about their Apple factory, making Ipads and other Apple products.
It is a city in itself, employing over 200,000 workers.

Just in the news last night there was mention of the US asking to station some ships here.


33 posted on 01/29/2012 12:30:02 AM PST by AlexW
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To: ExGeeEye

“Of course, to have the $700 per month, I would need to stay put and keep working.”
__________________________________________

Yes, it is not for expats that are not retired, or well to do.
Non-citizens can not work or own businesses here, with exception of some multinational corporations, and they would be in Manila.

I rarely see an expat under 60.


34 posted on 01/29/2012 12:34:11 AM PST by AlexW
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To: Kartographer

At the moment there are three things in life I am sure about, may be not about in that sequence but here they are any way. Death, taxes and the direction this country is headed. Sooner than later something has to give, but what it will be I am not so sure. Unfortunately there are still way too many people who are either too ignorant, too dumb or live in a dream world to recognize and see what is coming down the pike. Just been looking at the polling results from Florida and from what I could see there are still way too many who apparently have not seen the light. Makes one wonder what it will take, perhaps an event of biblical proportions to get this once great country back on track, or some revelation which will take most people by surprise. All I can say is that we live in interesting times.
Add me to your list


35 posted on 01/29/2012 12:35:52 AM PST by saintgermaine
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To: AlexW

My wife’s also from the Philippines. She just got her US citizenship and will be proudly voting in the upcoming elections. She’s turning out to be quite the Patriot, and a pretty good Prepper, and she has no interest in going back to the life she left behind, come what may here.

As for me, I’m your age, and yet I’m still able and willing to fight to the death for what this country means to me. Proud to be a Patriot - I’d be ashamed to be an Ex-Patriot, especially now when our country needs us most. But shame’s not in your repertoire. Enjoy the beach.


36 posted on 01/29/2012 1:15:43 AM PST by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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To: dagogo redux

Im not going anywhere either but I do see why people do leave. How many people would actually be willing to fight to the death? Id suspect not many. There arent enough of us who would to make a difference. Many people see the writing on the wall. The majority of our populace is dependent on the govt. The majority of the great unwashed are happy as long as they have their American Idol and Burger King. I will not knock the people who have left because when you get right to it, nothing will be done to right this ship.


37 posted on 01/29/2012 1:37:11 AM PST by hillarys cankles
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To: Kartographer

I’m a liveaboard sailor and a free man. Add me to your list.


38 posted on 01/29/2012 1:46:48 AM PST by AnTiw1
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To: dagogo redux

“As for me, I’m your age, and yet I’m still able and willing to fight to the death for what this country means to me. Proud to be a Patriot”
________________________________________________

That is all well and good when the country is under attack from a foreign power, but means nothing when your own fellow countrymen, along with illegal aliens, turn against that which made America great.

Just how are you going to fight???
You and I can do nothing more then vote.
If your fellow countrymen choose Marxism, what are you to do?
You might do the same as the founding fathers, or those that escaped central Europe, and say screw this, I will go to a new land.

Do not get me wrong, I love America as it was founded.
My great great great uncle was the Uncle Sam (Troy NY).
It is, however, not in my power to decide who the current citizens choose to be their president.
I have only one vote.


39 posted on 01/29/2012 2:20:45 AM PST by AlexW
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To: AlexW
We are also rich compared to most people around us.

But aren't you concerned about the emergence of an "eat-the-rich" mentality, in the event of a societal break-down?

Or do you live in some sort of gated community or enclosed compound that would be capable of defending itself when the biker zombies go marauding?

How will you defend yourself? What sort of gun laws do the Philippines have? Can you be sure that, after TSHTF, your police wouldn't pay you a visit to confiscate your weapons, squeeze baksheesh out of you, or simply harass the "Gringo" in order to make points with the locals?

Please don't lump me together with "dog-in-the-manger" types. I am honestly interested.

Regards,

40 posted on 01/29/2012 2:37:12 AM PST by alexander_busek
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To: alexander_busek

“But aren’t you concerned about the emergence of an “eat-the-rich” mentality, in the event of a societal break-down?”
______________________________________________

I have less fear here then I would have in Memphis.
I have no weapons and I do not live in a gated compound.
In my three years here I have never had any fears.
We lock our front door only when going to bed, or going out of town. I do not even lock my European bicycle at night.

I am not in Manila, or any big city.
There is no “eat the rich” mentality here, not that there is not petty theft as anywhere in the world.

I go everywhere in my town by bicycle, and find nothing but friendly people.
Every spot in the Philippines has many expats from America and Europe, more Europe where I am, but I avoid many of them, except for a few that come around in the afternoon for a cold beer on the porch, and I center my life around the locals.

I do not know any place on Earth that would be 100 percent safe, certainly not in any US metro city.


41 posted on 01/29/2012 2:54:49 AM PST by AlexW
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To: Kartographer

...stores wood pellets to fuel his woodstove...

Lose the pellets. Get a stove that doesn’t require “processed” fuel, or electricity to stoke it...


42 posted on 01/29/2012 3:40:11 AM PST by Paisan
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To: sockmonkey
I had forgotten I was mad at you. Thanks for reminding me about it.

You are welcome. It wouldn't do to let anyone forget. Besides...

"If you don't have enemies, you don't have character." Paul Newman
43 posted on 01/29/2012 4:18:57 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: hillarys cankles; dagogo redux

How many did it take at Lexington or Concord?


44 posted on 01/29/2012 4:34:59 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: AlexW

So, have you given up that American citizenship yet? No need to keep it if you are gone for good is it? I would really have much
more respect for your convictions if you did.

I seem to recall you were living the phat life in Italy the last I heard of you. Did that not work out so well for you? It’s crazy what can happen when the government runs out of good credit no matter where you live, isn’t it?

Speaking of money, you don’t have all of your wealth in US dollars do you? That could be a problem for you in a couple of years. That cheap rent which you currently pay could get awfully expensive. Or maybe you truly believe in your heart of hearts that the debt bomb that is coming for all of us in this country will somehow not devalue “your dollars” like it will mine. Oh, wait, I began to convert mine years ago, I don’t have a lot of dollars anymore.

What I do have is a place out in the country that is completely paid for along with everything else, I owe money to no one. We have 2 horses, a milk cow, a few sheep and goats. We keep chickens and raise meat rabbits which we butcher for our own use and sell for a small flow of cash. A 5 lb. rabbit currently brings $10 live, no need to process. We sell every one we don’t use ourselves,typically around 100 to 125 per month.

I plant a half acre of garden. I keep crops growing through the fall, there are some root veggies and Brussels Sprouts that we are still harvesting now. I built a small greenhouse where we will start the plants for our gardens in a couple of weeks and yes, we plant heirloom varieties in order to save the seeds.

Other places I allocated all of those USD$ were in tools and equipment, lots of tools and equipment, and spare parts for everything. Lots of books, manuals, and instructional DVD’s (for as long as we have electricity) teaching everything from how to deliver a baby to how to repair the diesel engine in my tractor. I bought welding equipment, gas and electric ( requires gas but generates electricity) and took classes at the local community college to learn how to use it. My wife will finish her classes in nursing this summer.

I’ve been heavily investing in food storage the last 4 years and I currently have enough provisions stored, not counting what we preserve ourselves, to supply the 8 people who will shelter here 2500 calories per day for 5 years. The inventory gets increased every month, bi-annually, and annually. I have been grinding wheat for flour for 3 years now.

We have been practicing living without electricity for a couple years now. Once a month, we go for anywhere from a few days to a week without turning on anything. No TV or computer, clothes are washed in a machine that doesn’t require electric. Meals are cooked and bread is baked in a wood cookstove. We already heat a very large ( 3 stories, 5000+ sf) house and all of our hot water with an outdoor wood furnace we burn year round. It helps having a 20 acre woodlot.

So, you may well ask, how am I prepared to defend all of what I have from the hoards who currently reside in the condo canyons that surround cities such as Washington, D.C., Phila., NYC, and all the rest. Well, we have guns, lots and lots of guns. And ammo, lots of it. We have a lot of powder, ball, and cap to reload all the empty brass. I am the resident armorer and keep all of our weapons running well. There is a weapon which is appropriate for everyone in our sheltering group and I insist on monthly practice. My oldest son is currently learning the art of repairing firearms.

We started construction on some defensive fighting positions on our property as well as the property of our like minded neighbors. Each neighbor is responsible for sheltering their own group, but we will act jointly in defense of property, i.e., I won’t stand by and watch their homes be looted and burned.

All of this must sound terribly dreary to an international citizen such as yourself, after all, milking a cow and tending a garden ain’t life on the beach, but my family has come to enjoy this life very much. We have all been to the beach, it has sand and lots of salt water. One thing that we do have which you will never have though. We live on our own property, provide for ourselves by our own labor, and live unafraid in the greatest country on Earth, the United States of America. that is something by your own admission which you will never do again.

You will try and rationalize your decision, spin it like a politician, lie to all of us as well as yourself, but every morning when you look out at the ocean there is one thing that must lay in your gut like a ball of ice; you are no longer an American.


45 posted on 01/29/2012 4:50:30 AM PST by Rearden (Deo Vindice)
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To: Sawdring

Jeremiah is a good one too. It was written by JMS of Babylon 5 fame. It was apparently abruptly ended. S2 theme is my favorite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flG7kqJWkZ4&feature=related


46 posted on 01/29/2012 5:26:05 AM PST by wally_bert (It's sheer elegance in its simplicity! - The Middleman)
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To: Kartographer
You have been added, but a word of warning some of your fellow Texans consider me as being in the same vein as Phil Sheridan and Al Sieber. ;-)

Kartographer, please add me to your ping list as well (good grief, Phil Sheridan?).

Thanks!

47 posted on 01/29/2012 5:27:17 AM PST by Texas Mulerider (Rap music: hieroglyphics with a beat.)
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To: FishinTX

General Sheriden is said to have said “The only good Queer is a dead Queer”


48 posted on 01/29/2012 5:31:45 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ..... Crucifixion is coming)
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To: fella
"Scouting taught me “Be prepared”. Words to “live” by. "

Me too...and then, I read Atlas Shrugged when I was 19 in 1962.

49 posted on 01/29/2012 5:50:06 AM PST by blam
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To: Kartographer
Is Now The Time To Move Away From Major U.S. Cities?
50 posted on 01/29/2012 5:51:47 AM PST by blam
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