Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

They Killed Him
Townhall.com ^ | January 30, 2012 | Bruce Bialosky

Posted on 01/30/2012 5:00:54 AM PST by Kaslin

January 22nd was a sad day in America. A pitiful and depressing episode that confirms how a lawyer-controlled and weak-kneed society, ended with the tragic death of Joe Paterno. As sure as day turns into night, the actions taken last November by the Board of Trustees of Penn State University were responsible for the premature death of this great man.

I grew up in Shaker Heights, Ohio, next door to Paterno’s domain: Pennsylvania. My father graduated from Ohio State, and I was – and still am – a born-and-bred Buckeye fan. I clearly remember the emergence of Joe Pa at Penn State, which had not yet joined the Big Ten – that wouldn’t happen for another 25 years.

In that time we had the great Woody Hayes, but now we were butting heads with this scrawny- looking guy with goofy glasses who was somehow stealing a number of our recruits. Because he wasn’t in the Big Ten – and, of course, because Michigan was the center of everything evil in the world – I developed a mild liking for the guy. If the Buckeyes weren’t winning the national championship, then Penn State and Joe Pa seemed to be an acceptable alternative. It was certainly better than some others (like USC). Sure enough, it didn’t take him too long to produce undefeated seasons – reeling off three very quickly in 1968, 1969 and 1973 – but he had to wait until 1982 to win his first national championship.

Paterno went on to become a national icon. There have been many great college coaches with stellar, decades-long careers, but Joe Pa was beginning to set records. From the time he turned 70 – and then 80! – we all participated in the annual rite of speculation about whether he would or should retire.

Whenever I was asked about it, my answer was always the same: the Bear Bryant Syndrome. Joe knew very well that Bryant had passed away a little over a month after his retirement, and in fact had told sportscaster Brent Musburger that Bryant’s untimely death was one of the reasons he continued coaching. His team, school, and community – along with his wife of nearly 50 years – had become his life.

The Jerry Sandusky scandal shocked everyone; it always smacks your senses when someone is accused of such despicable acts. I read the transcript of the grand jury testimony with utter horror, and yet the fact that it engulfed the entire Penn State University made this sordid story even more appalling and disgraceful. Still, something seemed to be missing.

Mike McCreary, a young staffer for the football team, had walked into the locker room in the Penn State athletic complex while Sandusky, now a former employee, was sodomizing a young boy in the showers. McCreary claimed that he reported it to Paterno, who promptly informed his superiors, Athletic Director Tim Curley and Vice-President for Finance and Business Gary Schultz. When Curley and Schultz testified that they had heard a different story than what McCreary related to the grand jury, the two men were indicted despite no further verification by the grand jury and then summarily fired by the Board of Trustees. Then McCreary changed his story, telling the press something different than he told the grand jury. The Trustees still fired Paterno.

The most iconic person in Penn State history, an employee for over 60 years, was fired via telephone call. He was not given the chance to explain his side of the story. A group of weaklings who were more concerned with protecting their jobs and fending off lawsuits just started canning people. Even someone who has been with the University for one year deserves to have their side heard. Someone with 60 years of exemplary service merits a little extra consideration.

The villain in this story, Jerry Sandusky, was now lost in the shuffle and the focus of the sports world was on Paterno and the Trustees. Every sanctimonious sportscaster started whimpering about how they would have done more and how everyone involved should have done more. They, of course, were only thinking of the children.

When Joe Pa finally broke his silence, it was accompanied by yet a third version of McCreary’s story. Apparently, he never really told Paterno what actually happened in the shower. He justifiably couldn’t bring himself to tell a 76-year-old legend the ugly details. The fact that an aging Paterno wasn’t really able to comprehend the whole matter will not convince some of his lack of blame. Some people will insist that he should have been able to understand such despicable behavior, and they will never accept that some among us come from an era where such repulsive activities were utterly inconceivable. So Coach Paterno reported what he had heard from McCreary, and that was all he knew.

Some say Joe died of a broken heart. I say he died from a knife in the back. Does it shock me that the man is now dead? No – there is, after all, the Bear Bryant Syndrome.

There will always be those who maintain that Paterno should have done more. There are those who claim that if they were in the same situation, they would have done more. But the only thing anyone should really say is if they are ever in the shoes of the Trustees, that they would give everyone the decency and fairness of an honest hearing, that they wouldn’t jump to conclusions, and that they would never, ever try to cover their own butts by ruining the lives of others.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: joepaterno; paterno; pedophilestate; pedostate; pennstate; sandusky
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-143 next last

1 posted on 01/30/2012 5:00:58 AM PST by Kaslin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Poppycock.

Paterno made his own choices. The consequences he suffered were as a result of his own actions.


2 posted on 01/30/2012 5:07:35 AM PST by PBRSTREETGANG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

sorry pal, my sympathy is in teh children who were molested under his watch.


3 posted on 01/30/2012 5:10:09 AM PST by camle (keep an open mind and someone will fill it full of something for you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Thank you for having the guts to post this.


4 posted on 01/30/2012 5:11:55 AM PST by LoveUSA (God employs Man's strength; Satan exploits Man's weakness.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Save your concern and sympathy for the young boys that were molested.


5 posted on 01/30/2012 5:14:56 AM PST by midwyf (Wyoming Native. Environmentalism is a religion too.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
Some say Joe died of a broken heart. I say he died from a knife in the back.

I'm confused. Didn't he already have terminal cancer?

6 posted on 01/30/2012 5:16:56 AM PST by Tax-chick (View new baby pictures on the Tax-chick page!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: camle
children who were molested under his watch

I missed this. I didn't know that Paterno had even seen a child in the locker room, let alone one who was being abused.

ML/NJ

7 posted on 01/30/2012 5:16:56 AM PST by ml/nj
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Sorry - I can’t work up so much as a single sniffle. Sports figures get away with almost anything, and this is another case of something being swept under the rug getting discovered. So it came back to bite him. Who cares? He made a fortune as head coach, and he, as part of his duties, should have kept an eye on his employees. Screw him.


8 posted on 01/30/2012 5:17:16 AM PST by from occupied ga (your own government is your most dangerous enemy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
The fact that an aging Paterno wasn’t really able to comprehend the whole matter will not convince some of his lack of blame. Some people will insist that he should have been able to understand such despicable behavior, and they will never accept that some among us come from an era where such repulsive activities were utterly inconceivable.

I think it's more likely that sodomy is not about football, so he simply didn't care. So, he informed who he felt he should have, covered his behind, and then just forgot about it, and back to football world.
9 posted on 01/30/2012 5:17:32 AM PST by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 ! We should take off and Newt washington from orbit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

National icon my foot. I’m 59 years old and before all this hubbub about him facilitating child molestation, I didn’t know who Joe Paterno was.


10 posted on 01/30/2012 5:19:20 AM PST by Lucas McCain (The day may come when the courage of men will fail, but not this day.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
The author correctly says the following - but reaches the wrong conclusion IMO:

The fact that an aging Paterno wasn’t really able to comprehend the whole matter will not convince some of his lack of blame. Some people will insist that he should have been able to understand such despicable behavior, and they will never accept that some among us come from an era where such repulsive activities were utterly inconceivable.

The premise is right, that a man of that era simply has no understanding of today's culture of homosexuality and so on. That, however, is an indictment and not a defense of Paterno.

11 posted on 01/30/2012 5:19:20 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: LoveUSA

I totally agree with this article. They killed JoePa and they are still in charge??? SHAME on them and the press!


12 posted on 01/30/2012 5:20:13 AM PST by Cricket24 (Proud to be a CONSERVATIVE WOMAN!!!!!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: C. Edmund Wright

Similar thoughts.

The press have been relentless in their condemnation and pursuit of Paterno. They are something much less than relentless in examining the NAMBLA-like aspects of this case. Sandusky’s crimes have been described as everything from molestation to rape to a ‘sex scandal’ (ugh) but the PC code of the press means that the most glaring aspect of the case has been ignored (at worst) or simply recounted in matter-of-fact terms (at best).


13 posted on 01/30/2012 5:26:35 AM PST by relictele (Green energy is neither)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Most Townhhall articles are pretty reasonable, this one isn’t. I don’t see much likelihood that something like that cold have been going on for years and Paterno not have known about it and the school had no options but to get rid of him. For that matter I’d anticipate the football program being shut down for at least the next several years, if nothing else they’re not going to be able to get serious players for a while.


14 posted on 01/30/2012 5:27:02 AM PST by varmintman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

“They they they”

Go home little kid, your mommy’s calling you.


15 posted on 01/30/2012 5:30:06 AM PST by bvw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
responsible for the premature death of this great man.

The death of an 85 year old man with terminal cancer was "premature"?

16 posted on 01/30/2012 5:31:38 AM PST by Graybeard58 (Eccl 10 v. 19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: relictele

It’s a very confusing and stunning episode - that we’ll now think of Paterno totally differently than we have all assumed we would think of him for the past several decades.

On one extreme are those who think he’s just as guilty as Sandusky - and on the other are those who want to saint him.

I have no doubt that he really could not process what McQueary was telling him. I am sure that whole scene was totally foreign to him. And yet, rumors are that Sandusky’s proclivities were an open secret in State College. (I cannot deny or verify this).

So -The truth is probably something along the lines of the fact that he held onto a job longer than he should have for a number of reasons - and that part of this motivation for keeping quiet was to protect Penn State football - which is a very poor reason.

I feel for the victims of Sandusky, and for the family of Paterno.


17 posted on 01/30/2012 5:33:17 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

The Board of Trustees of Penn State University gave Joe Paterno lung cancer?

Wow! They really ARE all-powerful...


18 posted on 01/30/2012 5:35:11 AM PST by WayneS (Comments now include 25% MORE sarcasm for no additional charge...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

The single most damning moment for Paterno was when he held court a few days after the allegations surfaced and helpfully explained that the Board of Trustees had better things to do than look at the issue.

That was a blatant display of his de facto power, and the board could not let it stand. I don’t think Paterno was evil, and I have come to believe he was more of an addled figurehead than any sort of conniving dictator. But the board did the right thing for the university in the long run. Did they do the right thing for Paterno? Well, that really shouldn’t have been their concern. Everyone thought what was good for Joe was good for PSU and vice versa, but this situation changed all of that.


19 posted on 01/30/2012 5:36:02 AM PST by Mr. Bird
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tribune7

Ping.

JoePa’s body was riddled with cancer. His days were numbered. That’s what took his life. Not the public. Not the press. Not the university officials. May he RIP.


20 posted on 01/30/2012 5:36:46 AM PST by randita
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

I leave Paterno’s judgement to God. However, I call BS on the author and his title. Crybaby.


21 posted on 01/30/2012 5:37:29 AM PST by Clara Lou (nObama, noRomney (Obama-lite), noPaul-- Santorum in a pinch)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick

Yes. Yes, he did.


22 posted on 01/30/2012 5:37:55 AM PST by WayneS (Comments now include 25% MORE sarcasm for no additional charge...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

New theory - remember, the Grand Jury testimony was accidentally released(correct me if Im wrong there)...which resulted in the shitstorm that ended with Joe being fired.

Perhaps - they knew Joe was terminally ill...and if they could keep a lid on this until he had passed - they could spare him all this crap - and keep the focus on Sandusky and not the University.

And remember - Joe had testified to the GJ - he knew what was going on - independent of public/media. That had to be a weight as well.

Not sure that casts the board in any better light, though.


23 posted on 01/30/2012 5:40:48 AM PST by 2ndamendmentpa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ml/nj

keep your blinders on...
IIRC jopa admitted to having been informed, and apoligized for not having done the right thing. so you keep shouting to an empty room that still thinks he’s innocent.
no sport, NO form of entertainment is worth ignoring the abuse of our children. no amount of money generated is worth the harm done to our children when it’s ‘gods’ are given a clintonesque pass on horror.
do you care for the sport, or for the children?


24 posted on 01/30/2012 5:41:01 AM PST by camle (keep an open mind and someone will fill it full of something for you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
Some people will insist that he should have been able to understand such despicable behavior

Hadn't he read the bible through at least once?

25 posted on 01/30/2012 5:41:54 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
responsible for the premature death of this great man.

Great man?

I thought he was a football coach.

26 posted on 01/30/2012 5:42:01 AM PST by humblegunner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WayneS

Those wascawwy smoke filled rooms.


27 posted on 01/30/2012 5:43:15 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: C. Edmund Wright
And yet, rumors are that Sandusky’s proclivities were an open secret in State College. (I cannot deny or verify this).

Definitely verified by a friend who has many friends in and around the program (or at least he did during the era in question). Which begets another question...why didn't anyone act on it even before the McQueary incident?

28 posted on 01/30/2012 5:43:47 AM PST by relictele (Green energy is neither)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: humblegunner

Famous football coach.

Today’s somewhat kinder, gentler answer to the gladiator of old.


29 posted on 01/30/2012 5:44:08 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: relictele

Too busy tittering at it, I guess.


30 posted on 01/30/2012 5:45:02 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: WayneS

Eh, I tend err on the side of the kids. 1 out of every 4 are sexually molested. This has been going on through time. We need to put a stop to it and let society know it’s NOT OK. I don’t care if you’re a football icon — kids are more important.


31 posted on 01/30/2012 5:45:51 AM PST by LibsRJerks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Wow! Evil post of the day! Proof that there is a devil and that he is active in this world.


32 posted on 01/30/2012 5:48:11 AM PST by iowamark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

“Protector of gay pedophile rapist”

Should be on his headstone. By law - for his dieing to avoid the punishment he deserved.


33 posted on 01/30/2012 5:52:54 AM PST by Eldon Tyrell (question,.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: humblegunner
Great man? I thought he was a football coach.

Only someone who's entire universe revolves around football, would not be able to see any difference between the terms, "great man" and "great football coach".
34 posted on 01/30/2012 5:53:04 AM PST by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 ! We should take off and Newt washington from orbit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: ZX12R

Thus his failure.


35 posted on 01/30/2012 5:55:26 AM PST by onedoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: PBRSTREETGANG
Poppycock.

I agree . . . to, in any way, lionize JoePa is disgusting. He knew for years what his pervert animal buddy was doing in the showers and did NOTHING to prevent it. I feel bad that JoePa didn't get a chance to go on trial and then, perhaps, be walked out of court in prison jammies.

To say that JoePa is in any way a victim is ridiculous. I just think of the dozens, if not more, of little boys sodomized by that Sandusky slob and I wonder what anyone is thinking if there's the slightest tear for JoePa.

36 posted on 01/30/2012 5:55:57 AM PST by laweeks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: relictele

Well, if your friend is accurate - and his take seems to be consistent with persistent rumors - then all of Penn State and State College should share in the blame. This would be tantamount to an entire community looking the other way on a horrible set of crimes to protect the reputation of the football program.

Irony is, had they acted swiftly and properly and not worried about the PR - they would have gotten a lot of good PR and prevented other awful incidences from taking place.

Now Penn State will suffer from this for probably decades.


37 posted on 01/30/2012 5:56:05 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
Boo-hoo-hoo! The great enabler of CHILD MOLESTATION died. Paterno wasn't a hero, he was an enabler of a monstrous evil. He chose to look the other way when children UNDER HIS PROTECTION were being abused by one of his people.

I feel sorry alright, I feel sorry for all of those young boys who were ABUSED BY PATERNO'S PET PERVERT. I feel sorry for all those kids who were sacrificed--whose LIVES WERE DESTROYED, to the god of football money.

Any good that Joe Paterno did in his life is more than counterbalanced by his tacit approval of the Penn State Pervert's actions. Sandusky destroyed lives while Paterno sat by and watched. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
38 posted on 01/30/2012 5:57:10 AM PST by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: LibsRJerks
Since I posted NOTHING that could POSSIBLY have been interpreted in any way as a defense of Joe Paterno, or as agreement with the tripe in the posted article, I have NO idea why you addressed your post to me.

Do you care to enlighten me, or must it forever remain a mystery?

39 posted on 01/30/2012 5:57:21 AM PST by WayneS (Comments now include 25% MORE sarcasm for no additional charge...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick

yes, he was already supersick


40 posted on 01/30/2012 5:58:07 AM PST by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Graybeard58

Precisely what I was thinking, and read no further than that rather strange statement.


41 posted on 01/30/2012 5:58:50 AM PST by rockinqsranch (Dems, Libs, Socialists, call 'em what you will, they ALL have fairies livin' in their trees.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: iowamark

Yes, and the author probably has no clue that the darkness was working through him in writing that!


42 posted on 01/30/2012 5:59:25 AM PST by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

I really don’t understand all you Monday morning quarterbacks. Just what else was Paterno supposed to do? Go to Sandusky’s home & beat him up? Call press conference to expose (poor choice of words) the “facts”? What facts did he have - McQuery’s word? What if McQuery had a personal vendetta & made the whole thing up? Would you really risk ruining a man’s reputation on some else’s say-so? All Paterno had was, legally, a rumor.

Have you ever witnessed and reported a crime? Did you “follow up”? And if the authorities you “followed up” with told you things were being handled, then what?

Of course the kids come first, and Joe never failed to mention that they were, first and foremost, the victims.
That being said, Joe was also a victim —— of the BOT, medical wonder that they are: spineless, gutless, ball-less.


43 posted on 01/30/2012 5:59:34 AM PST by PA BOOKENDS
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Joe could have went against the system to save young males. He decided not to do that. It cost him his life and his honor on a bad decision. Joe paid a cost for that. His friendship to Jerry killed him.


44 posted on 01/30/2012 6:00:36 AM PST by bmwcyle (I am ready to serve Jesus on Earth because the GOP failed again)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lucas McCain

You wrote:

“I didn’t know who Joe Paterno was.”

Okay, but he was a national icon. I have been all over the USA and have seen his image and name on bumper stickers, T-shirts, etc. The guy has been famous since the 1960s. I suppose if someone knows nothing about college football, he might not know him, but he also was involved in Republican politics too.


45 posted on 01/30/2012 6:01:16 AM PST by vladimir998
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: C. Edmund Wright

Paterno was surely not so virgin-eyed or -eared that he hadn’t heard stories of the buggery of the navies of old, or read it in the bible, or heard it warned about from a pulpit?

Denial isn’t just a river in Egypt.


46 posted on 01/30/2012 6:05:21 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: bmwcyle

Jerry never gave Joe cancer, unless they were REALLY weird.


47 posted on 01/30/2012 6:06:21 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: C. Edmund Wright
There are no secrets on a campus. You can bet that everyone knew about this at least from rumor, from the top down. If I were the governor, I would have moved in immediately, dismissed the entire board of trustees and all of the top administration and placed the entire university under new control directed by the governor's office.

YOu can bet all the coaches knew of this, all of the grounds keepers knew of this, most of the professors knew of this.

A college campus is more like a fraternity than a business. Everyone knew what was going on and they all just chose to close their eyes to it.
48 posted on 01/30/2012 6:06:53 AM PST by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick

Now now, don’t go depriving the age of consent abolition lobby of their martyr.


49 posted on 01/30/2012 6:06:53 AM PST by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: PA BOOKENDS

Report the allegation to police, mentioning all he had learned including McQueary’s allegations. If McQueary was the villain here, police investigators and Sandusky’s own attorneys (not difficult to get given his posh position) would be the cure.


50 posted on 01/30/2012 6:09:35 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-143 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson