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India to Britain: We don't need the 'peanuts' you offer us in aid .
Daily Mail.Co.UK ^

Posted on 02/05/2012 9:09:14 AM PST by MBT ARJUN

India's Finance Minister referred to the financial aid given by Britain to his country as nothing more than 'peanuts', it is claimed.

It is also claimed that Pranab Mukherjee and other Indian ministers tried to reject the money - around £280million a year - from the UK in 2011, but the British Government 'begged' them to take the money.

The Sunday Telegraph claims that the Indian government were disposed to reject the money in April last year, because of the 'negative publicity of Indian poverty' highlighted by the aid.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2096628/British-foreign-aid-India-tells-Britain-dont-need-peanuts-offer-us.html#ixzz1lWkmhZjq

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: europeanunion; india; mmrca; uk; unitedkingdom; us
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1 posted on 02/05/2012 9:09:17 AM PST by MBT ARJUN
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To: MBT ARJUN

They should take it and give it to me.


2 posted on 02/05/2012 9:12:45 AM PST by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker

Please PM me your Account No..


3 posted on 02/05/2012 9:16:09 AM PST by MBT ARJUN
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To: MBT ARJUN

I got no peanuts. :(


4 posted on 02/05/2012 9:22:30 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper (NEWT GINGRICH 2012)
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To: MBT ARJUN

Cameron is an idiot. The profit margin for the typical defense firm is about 6%. 6% of $20b is $1.2b, or roughly what the UK has handed over to India. He’d be better off zeroing out the aid budget - as India’s Finance Minister has recommended - over the next 5 years and handing the money over to the manufacturer of Eurofighter.


5 posted on 02/05/2012 9:37:35 AM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: MBT ARJUN

we and the Brits need to stop giving aid....period.


6 posted on 02/05/2012 9:38:56 AM PST by Vaquero
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks MBT ARJUN.
The Sunday Telegraph claims that the Indian government were disposed to reject the money in April last year, because of the 'negative publicity of Indian poverty' highlighted by the aid.
£280 million worth of peanuts, well, that may be way too many peanuts.


7 posted on 02/05/2012 9:42:44 AM PST by SunkenCiv (FReep this FReepathon!)
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To: MBT ARJUN

It’s pretty clear that the wastrels in DC should review the continuation of American aid to India. It’s less than peanuts, at just over $100m a year.


8 posted on 02/05/2012 9:44:06 AM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: MBT ARJUN
My Swiss account is #694782295488533464377, which on your phone dial spells MY GRUBBY LITTLE FINGERS! :-)

Can you imagine the gall? £280million a year is nothing to sneeze at, even if you are a whole country. The Brits weren't offering to buy everyone in India a Big Mac. I'm sure the Indians can figure out a good use for it, sheesh.

9 posted on 02/05/2012 9:45:01 AM PST by LibWhacker
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To: MBT ARJUN
This sort of stuff is there to appeal to those with their national pride.

It's trash, but there will be many in India that see these silly gestures as some sort of symbol that India has “become someone.” It's the same sort of junk as when Schroeder talked of his “Deutscher Weg” and stabbed the US in the back. Many on the political right actually found themselves supporting this liberal politician because of how the scenario was framed.

These are simply cheap shots and the people that walk around beating their chest with their new found national pride are sheep.

10 posted on 02/05/2012 10:06:18 AM PST by Red6
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To: MBT ARJUN

But why did the UK beg them to take it? Think of all the elderly couples they could forcibly move to smaller flats with that money!


11 posted on 02/05/2012 10:18:27 AM PST by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: Zhang Fei

Nop!why blame cameroon,when you the one who is an Idiot. Your rant ,B.S and troll are like old school jibes. 20billion $ is just for Contract with 50% to be invested back in India as offset but still u get the profit.This is GOI condition to promote Jobs and industry in India.
And besides 20billion $ ,think about spare part industry and Job creation in country of origin.
Hope mods here are not in high to ignore a chinese CCP paid 50cent internet warrior.


13 posted on 02/05/2012 10:31:15 AM PST by MBT ARJUN
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To: MBT ARJUN

What did you just say? What does the last sentence mean? What does any of it mean?


14 posted on 02/05/2012 10:39:17 AM PST by healy61
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To: Red6; LibWhacker

Peanuts or walnuts, these comments were reported in the British press as being attributed to remarks made during a Indian parliamentary session last year.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/9061844/India-tells-Britain-We-dont-want-your-aid.html

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/uk/India-doesnt-need-peanuts-aid-offered-by-UK/articleshow/11769480.cms

The ‘peanuts’ comment was made in reference to the quantum of British aid to total Indian development expenditure rather than being directed at the British government. There was no mention of it in the Indian press last year. British tabloids have played up the claim to fuel a frenzy over aid to India after it decided against buying a half-British fighter.


15 posted on 02/05/2012 10:50:38 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: LibWhacker

Britain was obviously trying to buy India by giving money in the guise of aid - hoping to snatch a 10-to-20 billion-dollar aircraft deal through what would have been undue influence.

The “aid” given (against the will of the recipient) did not come without strings attached.

Besides, the ‘peanuts’ comment was not addressed to Britain.


16 posted on 02/05/2012 11:09:03 AM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: James C. Bennett

Britain is up to its t*ts in debt, and Britain has to beg India to take money we can’t afford to give to a nation that doesn’t want it. WTF is going on?!?!


17 posted on 02/05/2012 11:37:42 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: MBT ARJUN
The whys and wherefores of international politics are indeed mind boggling. At first, coming from England, I have a small sum as old age pension for working and being born there. I got very negative. It will buy about 25 Hortons large coffees. I have no complaints.

One always has to take a deep think and try to take in some excellent give and take on FR on this post. Perhaps these contracts for armaments do have a bearing. One can imagine the "party time" for the bureaucrats when these so called foreign aid grants are received. Something like the charitable agencies that take most money for "administration". This side of the Atlantic.

Fwiw. the last massacre in India by the British was at Amritsar 1919. Machine guns in armoured cars opened fire on demonstrators against British rule. 400 dead, a 1000 wounded. The British parliament condemned fiery General Dwyer for this.

Queen Elizabeth 11 humbled herself in 1997 on a visit to India, wearing some form of non european garment. She was born after the massacre. Her grandfather ruled then.

18 posted on 02/05/2012 11:40:02 AM PST by Peter Libra
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To: Peter Libra

Who in their right mind would want to rule India? Besides the stories from Jim Corbett what exactly enriched the West by turning them into being a colony?


19 posted on 02/05/2012 11:48:56 AM PST by junta ("Peace is a racket", testimony from crime boss Barrack Hussein Obama.)
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To: MBT ARJUN

Do you a deal India.

We really don’t need the 15 million of your citizens you sent us. Take them back and we’ll stop sending you money.


20 posted on 02/05/2012 11:54:42 AM PST by EnglishCon
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All contributions are for the Current Quarter Expenses.


21 posted on 02/05/2012 11:59:11 AM PST by RedMDer (Forward With Confidence!)
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To: junta
Who in their right mind would want to rule India?

This was indeed true following WW1. Ghandi was a leading light with his policy of passive resistance. He was actually kept alive when purporting to fast to the death. Some foreign ambassador to Britain said - "Too civilized,other countries would have shot him".

Alas, Ghandi was murdered in 1948 by his own kind. Over a million souls died when the British quit India. Religious differences .Educated people in Canada of Indian extraction seem to praise the British for stabilizing that country. The British hammered the Thugees, a tribe of thugs who robbed the defenseless, as a way of life. (Thugs)

22 posted on 02/05/2012 12:16:45 PM PST by Peter Libra
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To: LibWhacker
The price of a Big mac in UK being £2.30, £280million a year will buy 1 Big mac for roughly 122 million people....just once a year! Divide that money with 1.2 billion people you will get less then a packet of peanuts for that money..... but it will definitely buy the British tabloid press a large haughty arrogant mouth to spew moral indignation at India.
23 posted on 02/05/2012 1:03:55 PM PST by ravager
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To: Red6
Whats wrong with national pride? Do you as an American lack a sense of national pride for your country or do you consider national pride to be the sole privilege of Anglo-Americans?

India is the second fastest growing economy currently and has been growing at time at 10% growth rate. Unlike UK (or even US) its no longer a failing economy that is drowning in deep debt. For over a decade and half India had a budget surplus and a surplus of foreign currency reserve. In a few years India will topple UK (also France and Germany) to become the 4th largest economy in the world.

So they want to stand on their own feet and not live off handouts (as they rightly should). What exactly do you find wrong with that? Or it it the fact that those brown skinned third world country asserting their economic independence is what is turning you off? Which is it?

24 posted on 02/05/2012 1:23:32 PM PST by ravager
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To: junta

Tea, cloth, indigo, huge labor force, strategic location.


25 posted on 02/05/2012 1:27:34 PM PST by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: ravager

Dear India:

You tell them. The days of colonialist condescension are over.

Truly yours with no strings attached:

Israel

PS: What say we team up together against Muslim threat.


26 posted on 02/05/2012 1:35:03 PM PST by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: LibWhacker; Red6
UK’s current economic debt is roughly £1 trillion pound for a country with a £2.2 trillion pound economy. Thats nearly 47% debt. £280million a year is peanuts even to pay off their own economic debt, let alone do anything for India. So peanuts is right!

Believe it or not, India has her own foreign aid program (roughly worth $1.5 billion) to Afghanistan, Nepal, Burma and West Africa.

Recently India bailed out Europe with $2 billion dollars...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-to-give-2bn-to-fund-bailouts-in-Europe/articleshow/9463341.cms

And lent $10 billion dollars to IMF....
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/a-reversal-of-fortune-india-lends-to-imf/630443/

27 posted on 02/05/2012 1:51:27 PM PST by ravager
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To: Eleutheria5

......Spices,gold, ivory,jute,tobacco,cotton, labor force that built rail roads in Africa, worked on plantation in Africa/West Indies and fought wars for the British Empire in Africa, Europe, West Asia and South East Asia.......


28 posted on 02/05/2012 1:52:57 PM PST by ravager
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To: Eleutheria5

I am all for alliance with Israel against the Islamic world. Israel is India’s best ally! UK, Europe is dead beat.


29 posted on 02/05/2012 1:55:19 PM PST by ravager
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To: EnglishCon

“We really don’t need the 15 million of your citizens you sent us.”

Maybe you should come up with an English version of Mahatma Gandhi and launch a Quit England movement to fight for British independence from India. That might work. (Although you will still have to fight the Muslim invaders separately).

As for the “aid” I call it reparation money, but for all the 250 years looting and plunder its still peanuts!


30 posted on 02/05/2012 2:01:59 PM PST by ravager
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To: ravager

America, Europe and UK will be back in the saddle one day. But neither of us need be the horse. We are too small for such heavy riders, and you are too large. We are both too intelligent to be anything less than equals.


31 posted on 02/05/2012 2:03:50 PM PST by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: junta; Peter Libra; Eleutheria5; EnglishCon
Don't forget troop contributions to WW2 (or WW1, and wars before, even) - the largest all-volunteer force against the Axis Powers at the time:

Indian soldiers storm a German trench, after exploding it with hand grenades.

An Italian soldier surrenders to an Indian Jawan during the successful allied campaign of Operation Crusader

 

Colonies, Colonials and World War Two

By Marika Sherwood

2011-03-30

India

http://goo.gl/mLSzb

Troops from the British Empire fought in every theatre of war through the years of World War Two - as they had fought in a range of conflicts, on the side of Britain, for the past 150 years or so.

There were over two and a half million Indian citizens in uniform during the war. The Fifth Indian Division, for example, fought in the Sudan against the Italians, and then in Libya against the Germans. From North Africa the Division was moved to Iraq to protect the oilfields.

After this relatively easy posting, the Division was moved to the Burma front, together with eight other Indian Divisions, and then occupied Malaya. It was then moved to Java to disarm the Japanese garrison there. The men from this Division won four Victoria Crosses. In addition, Indians served in the Royal Indian Navy and in the Indian Air Force which, in recognition of it's war contribution, was granted royal status in 1945.

... Indian personnel received 4,000 awards for gallantry, and 31 VCs.

The Fourth Indian Division also fought in North Africa, Syria, Palestine, Cyprus and then in Italy. Together with the 8th and 10th Division it participated in the taking of Monte Cassino, after which it was moved to Greece. Four men of the Fourth were awarded Victoria Crosses.

Over 36,000 Indian members of the armed forces were killed or went missing in action, and 64,354 were wounded during the war. Indian personnel received 4,000 awards for gallantry, and 31 VCs. The only VC winner from elsewhere in the Empire was Corporal Sefanaia Sukanaivalu, of the Fiji Military Forces, who earned this highest of all commendations in June 1944, at Bougainville.

The story of one of the 31 recipients of the VC is that of Havildar Gaje Ghale, who, in May 1943 was in command of D platoon, 2nd battalion, 5th Royal Gurkha Rifles. Although badly wounded, he continued to lead a charge against the Japanese forces on the Tiddim Road in Burma.

The citation for his Victoria Cross stated that he had ‘dominated the fight’ with ‘his outstanding example, doubtless courage and superb leadership...[C]overed in blood from his own wounds, he led assault after assault’.

The land of India also served as an assault and training base, and provided vast quantities of foods and other materials to British and Commonwealth forces, and to the British at home. This necessitated the involvement of more millions of men and women in war work and war production. 

The Kohima War Epitaph:




Kohima, India.

 

India played a significant part in World War One. However, India’s part in the war is frequently overlooked as a result of the horrors experienced in trench warfare and by Europe’s tendency to home in on battles such as those fought at the Somme andVerdun, which many assume only Europeans fought in.

When was broke out in 1914, India was in a state of growing political unrest. The Indian National Congress had gone from being a group that simply discussed issues to a body that was pushing for more self-government. Before the war started, the Germans had spent a great deal of time and energy trying to stir up an anti-British movement in India. Many shared the view that if Britain got involved in a crisis somewhere in the world, Indian separatists would use this as an opportunity to advance their cause.

“The moment Britain gets into trouble elsewhere, India, in her present temper, would burst into a blaze of rebellion.” 

William Archer (author)

These fears were unfounded. When war was declared on August 4th, India rallied to the cause. Those with influence within India believed that the cause of Indian independence would best be served by helping out Britain in whatever capacity India could – including the Indian National Congress. Offers of financial and military help were made from all over the country. Hugely wealthy princes offered great sums of money, and even areas outside of British India offered help – Nepal offered help and in total sent 100,000 Gurkhas and the Dalai Lama in Tibet offered 1000 of his troops to the cause. Despite the pre-war fears of unrest, Britain, in fact, could take many troops and most of her military equipment out of India as fears of unrest subsided. Indian troops were ready for battle before most other troops in the dominions.

Indian troops were on the Western Front by the winter of 1914 and fought at the first Battle of Ypres. By the end of 1915, they had sustained many casualties. Along with the casualties from sickness, the decision was taken to withdraw the Indian Corps from front line duty at the end of 1915.

In total, 800,000 Indian troops fought in all the theatres of the war with 1½ million volunteering to fight. They fought in most theatres of war including Gallipoli and North and East Africa. In all 47,746 were classed as killed or missing with 65,000 wounded.

The Indian Corps won 13,000 medals for gallantry including 12 Victoria Crosses. Khudadad Khan won the Corps first Victoria Cross.

Such was the cost of the war, that India’s economy was pushed to near bankruptcy.

The Indian support given to Britain’s cause surprised the establishment in Britain. ‘The Times’ wrote:

“The Indian empire has overwhelmed the British nation by the completeness and unanimity of its enthusiastic aid.”

For its endeavours, India expected to be rewarded with a major move towards independence or at the least self-government. When it became obvious that this was not going to happen, the mood in India became more militant. During the last phases of the war Mahatma Gandhi said:

“Seek ye first the recruiting office, and everything will be added unto you.”

The British government’s post-war attitude quickly alienated Gandhi and was a great stimulus for his independence movement.

In 1919, the Government of India Act was introduced. 

This introduced a national parliament with two houses for India.

About 5 million of the wealthiest Indians were given the right to vote (a very small percentage of the total population. 

Within the provincial governments, ministers of education, health and public works could now be Indian nationals.

The act planned for a commission to be held in 1929, to see if India  was ready for more concessions/reforms.

However, the British controlled all central government and within the provincial governments, the British kept control of the key posts of tax and law and order.

Many in India felt that they had been badly let down by the British government for their part played in World War One. However, despite this feeling of being let down, India was to play a significant part in World War Two.

File:2nd Indian Cav Div.jpg

Indian cavalry from the Deccan Horse during the Battle of Bazentin Ridge.

The Indian Army during World War I, sometimes called the British Indian Army, contributed a number of divisions and independent brigades to the European, Mediterranean and the Middle east theatres of war in World War I. One million Indian troops would serve overseas, of whom 62,000 died and another 67,000 were wounded. In total 74,187 Indian soldiers died during the war.

The Indian Army had undergone major reforms in 1903, after Kitchener was appointed Commander-in-Chief, India. He instituted the large–scale reforms, including merging the three armies of the Presidencies into a unified force and forming higher level formations, ten army divisions.

In World War I the Indian Army fought against the German Empire in German East Africa and on the Western Front. At the First Battle of Ypres, Khudadad Khan became the first Indian to be awarded a Victoria Cross. Indian divisions were also sent to Egypt, Gallipoli and nearly 700,000 served in Mesopotamia against the Ottoman Empire.

File:Indian Army QF 3.7 inch gun battery Jerusalem 1917.jpg

Indian Army gunners (probably 39th Battery) with 3.7 inch Mountain HowitzersJerusalem 1917.

The Indian Army during World War II began the war, in 1939, numbering just under 200,000 men. By the end of the war it had become the largest volunteer army in history, rising to over 2.5 million men in August 1945. Serving in divisions of infantry, armour and a fledgling airborne force, they fought on three continents in Africa, Europe and Asia.

The Indian Army fought in Ethiopia against the Italian Army, in Egypt, Libya and Tunisia against both the Italian and German Army, and, after the Italian surrender, against the German Army in Italy. However, the bulk of the Indian Army was committed to fighting the Japanese Army, first during the British defeats in Malaya and the retreat from Burma to the Indian border; later, after resting and refitting for the victorious advance back into Burma, as part of the largest British Empire army ever formed. These campaigns cost the lives of over 36,000 Indian servicemen, while another 34,354 were wounded, and 67,340 became prisoners of war. Their valour was recognised with the award of some 4,000 decorations, and 38 members of the Indian Army were awarded the Victoria Cross or the George Cross.

File:Indian troops among pagodas on Mandalay.jpg

Troops of 19th Division open fire on a Japanese strong point.

File:British commander and Indian crew encounter elephant2.jpg

Sherman tank of the 9th Royal Deccan Horse, 255th Indian Tank Brigade, Burma 1945.

File:Operation Crusader.jpg

A section of Sikh infantry during Operation Crusader.

File:Indian-field-gun-keren.jpg

Indian soldiers in action before the capture of Keren in Eritrea . This gun hurled approximately 24,000 shells a day. Note the shadow of camouflage on the field gun.

File:5th Indian division soldier with Japanese soldiers.jpg

A soldier from the 5th Indian Division stands guard over Japanese prisoners outside their former headquarters in Singapore, September 1945.


An Indian soldier holds a captured Nazi flag. Germany, 1945.


Captain Umrao Singh, VC

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1526840/posts

Havildar who fought off three attacks by Japanese infantry and set a supreme example of gallantry AS A havildar (sergeant), Umrao Singh was the only non-commissioned officer of either the Royal Artillery or the Indian Artillery to be awarded the Victoria Cross in the Second World War. Forward observation officers are frequently at great personal risk when in exposed positions so as to direct artillery fire in support of armoured or infantry units. But Singh won his award for valour in what all gunners regard as their near-sacred duty — defence of the guns.

By the end of 1944, General Sir William Slim’s 14th Army was poised for a right-flank offensive against Lieutenant-General Sakurai Seizo’s 28th Japanese Army in the coastal strip between the Irrawaddy and the Bay of Bengal. General Sir Philip Christison’s XV Corps of four divisions was given the job. The offensive was launched on December 12 but fierce resistance was met by the 81st West African Division advancing down the Kaladan valley, every move forward being challenged by Japanese counter-attack.

The 33 Mountain Battery, Indian Artillery, in which Havildar Umrao Singh was a field-gun detachment commander, was subjected to a sustained bombardment from Japanese 75mm guns and heavy mortars for one and a half hours on December 16, immediately before his gun position was attacked by two companies of Japanese infantry. Twice wounded by grenades during the first assault, Singh fought off the enemy with the detachment’s Bren light-machinegun while directing the rifle fire of the gun crew.

The second Japanese attack killed all the crew other than two members and himself, but was nevertheless beaten off. When the third assault came only a few rounds of small-arms ammunition remained and this was quickly used. With his last shot gone Singh seized a “gun bearer” — a heavy crowbar-like rod used for turning the gun trail — and closed with the attacking Japanese. He led the two surviving gun-crew members in hand-to-hand fighting until they were overwhelmed. He was seen to strike down three enemy infantrymen before falling under a rain of blows to the head.

Six hours later, after a counter-attack recovered the battery position, Singh was found unconscious beside his field-gun and almost unrecognisable from head wounds. Ten Japanese dead lay around him.

The citation for the award of the Victoria Cross read: “Havildar Umrao Singh set a supreme example of gallantry and devotion to duty.” His gun was still fit for firing and was in action again that day. He received his VC from King George VI at Buckingham Palace on October 15, 1945.

Umrao Singh was born in the village of Paka in the Rohtak district of the Punjab, an area now part of the Indian state of Haryana. He continued his military service after recovery from his injuries and was subsequently promoted subadar-major. He eventually retired from the Indian Army with the honorary rank of captain.

In 1983 he was farming a two-acre smallholding inherited from his father in his home village. He owned a single buffalo and a cart, lived in a small mud-brick house and was finding life hard on a basic Indian Army pension of £14 a month. A friend who knew of his award suggested that he should sell his decoration, as he had heard that a VC had recently been sold for £20,000 in London. In spite of his straitened circumstances, Captain Singh refused to sell his VC for an offered sum of £32,000, saying to do so “would stain the honour of those who fell in battle beside me”. Subsequently he received a Haryana state pension of £50 per month.

Singh accompanied the Indian Army contingent to London for the 50th anniversary of the end of the Second World War. Although his name was on the list of those attending, it was not included with other holders of the VC or George Cross, who were invited to join the VIP party for the march past of veterans. It was while he was being delayed from entering the VIP stand by a security official that he was seen by the officer responsible for staging the event (Brigadier Tom Longland) who recognised Singh’s VC and ordered his immediate admission. After the march past of veterans, Singh was presented to the late Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother and to the Prime Minister, John Major.

While in conversation with the Prime Minister, the matter of pensions for holders of the VC and GC was raised. Major was amazed to discover that the pension had been set at £100 per year shortly after the Second World War and never increased. He took steps to secure Parliamentary approval for an increase to £1,300 per annum, no mean sum in rural India. After the interview, Singh reported: “I don’t think the Prime Minister speaks Hindi but when I talked to him, he just said ‘yes’ to everything.” Shortly afterwards, Singh retired from farming, but continued his close interest in the welfare of Indian Army pensioners, particularly in the correct receipt of their pension money.

On May 14, 2003, he attended the Service of Dedication of the Victoria Cross and George Cross Memorial in Westminster Abbey in the presence of the Queen, patron of the Victoria Cross and George Cross Association, and the Duke of Edinburgh.

His wife, Vimla, predeceased him; he is survived by two sons and a daughter. His death leaves only 12 surviving holders of the VC, eight of whom won their awards during the Second World War and four in subsequent campaigns, including Private Johnson Beharry, who won his VC in Iraq in 2004.

Captain Umrao Singh, holder of the Victoria Cross, was born on July 11, 1920. He died on November 21, 2005, aged 85.



And if you have the time, read about the 21 Sikhs: The Battle of Saragarhi, Afghanistan.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/21sikhs.html


32 posted on 02/05/2012 2:12:32 PM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: ravager

On the one hand, there was the looting and the plunder. On the other, the benefits: European scientific and medical advances and education, and best of all having the British to be pissed off at instead of one another. British former colonies such as America, India, Israel have done all right for themselves afterwards, and have often had a good friend in their former master. They are wonderful people once they are at home and stay there, as Lin Yutang said (Between Tears and Laughter, Dooubleday, 1940).


33 posted on 02/05/2012 2:13:43 PM PST by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: MBT ARJUN

I guess they want India to take the money so some special british interest can get a cut of it.


34 posted on 02/05/2012 2:20:28 PM PST by Diggity
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To: Eleutheria5

It seems as though the Brits have lost their marbles and have totally flipped because of this deal. Only last year David Cameron made his first overseas visit to India, courting India as a country that is more important then even then US! With the MMRCA deal going to the French, the Brits are now hollering for cancellation of the “aid program” (that India never asked for in the first place), want to cancel the visa program, stop all outsourcing and even trade with India! This deal really touched a raw nerve with the Brits.

Funny thing is, its difficult to tell if they are angry about Britain giving away that money or India refusing to take that money. Also what is funny is that UK is angry at India for not buying the Typhoon but UK has actually reduced their own Typhoon order to buy F-35s.


35 posted on 02/05/2012 3:09:42 PM PST by ravager
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To: ravager; Eleutheria5; Peter Libra

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/opinion/columns/article2863252.ece?homepage=true

The Indian military has bankrolled British military industries pretty significantly over the past 65 years. Off the top of my head, it was the largest buyer of several British warplanes-the Canberra, Folland Gnat, Hawker Sea Hawk, Hawker Hunter, Jaguar, Sea Harrier and BAe Hawk in addition to plenty of frigates, destroyers and two aircraft carriers as well as tanks.


36 posted on 02/05/2012 7:07:07 PM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: Zhang Fei; MBT ARJUN

Actually the profit margins for defense exports are significantly higher then 6%. They could be anywhere between 12% to 17%.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=aerospacedaily&id=news/asd/2012/02/03/02.xml&headline=Defense%20Disconnect:%20Lean%20Times,%20Fat%20Profits

That would mean a profit margin of anywhere between $2.5 to $3.5 billion dollars. And this we are talking about just profit margins. The actual overall $20 billion dollars worth of contract would be pumping much needed cash flow into the debt ridden European economy. It will not only create jobs but also help build industrial base and kick start economic activity.

Cameron’s peanut $1.2 billion will only generate so many government jobs. And we all know how well government created jobs work for the economy.


37 posted on 02/05/2012 7:10:52 PM PST by ravager
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To: LibWhacker

The Brits weren’t offering to buy everyone in India a Big Mac.

ooooooooooooooh. poor choice of terms.


38 posted on 02/05/2012 7:13:46 PM PST by Chickensoup (In the 20th century 200 million people were killed by their own governments.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki; Eleutheria5; Peter Libra; EnglishCon

To be honest, Indian investment has been the only kind of investment that has been steadily increasing in UK and has been creating jobs. Indian investments in UK is secondly only to US. For the entirety of last century Indian blood and sweat had kept the British economy/military afloat. There is only so much Indian money can do to keep a thankless and arrogant Britain economically alive. After that they have to start begging or declare bankruptcy like the Europeans.


39 posted on 02/05/2012 7:32:49 PM PST by ravager
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To: Chickensoup
Big Mac is not even real beef. Its just corn-fed garbage.
40 posted on 02/05/2012 7:39:10 PM PST by ravager
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To: Chickensoup

Some of the best burgers I’ve had were in India - in Bangalore, to be specific: a small chain of locally-owned restaurants by the name of Ice & Spice. I believe the burger patties were made of lamb, and as most Australians like it - no pickles! Fresh cucumber slices, instead, and everything freshly prepared right in front of you.

About a dollar and a half for a sandwich, freshly-fried chips and a drink (with real sugar, not HFCS).


41 posted on 02/05/2012 7:56:28 PM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: MBT ARJUN

If we get 4 more tears of Obozo we’ll need the foreign aid!


42 posted on 02/05/2012 8:52:54 PM PST by Reagan is King
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To: James C. Bennett; ravager
I will take time tomorrow to go over the informative information and excellent photographs of Britain's Indian allies. Also I must confess after over fifty years in Canada, I am out of touch with foreign policies. Needs some careful culling of what has been said regarding the economic ties of Britain and India.

What I am up on are the vagaries of multiculture. This and the confining to mediocrity in the minds of the British bureaucrat of the average English working class Joe. Coupled with the stories of the louts.

A good word for Indian people, Absolutely the lowest crime rate per capita in Canada and I think the same in the United Kingdom. Austrians and Germans running a close second here.

Well, we British left some marvellous buildings in India, plus statues of Queen Victoria (chuckle(. I hope these two countries can get their act together.

43 posted on 02/05/2012 9:06:20 PM PST by Peter Libra
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To: James C. Bennett
Britain was obviously trying to buy India

Is it possible we're making it sound a little too sinister? It's not much different than offering India a sale price or a rebate on the planes, except in this case India is getting the rebate up front and is being asked to use the money to help malnourished Indians. I'm not a lawyer, so maybe there is something terribly wrong with it that I am overlooking, but I simply fail to understand why it is so bad.

As an American, I'm sick of giving tons of taxpayer money to a bunch of perpetually ungrateful foreign countries. So my sympathies almost automatically are with the Brits here -- and I'm not a big fan of Britain nor someone who hates Indians. I'm about as impartial as a person can be.

44 posted on 02/05/2012 11:40:04 PM PST by LibWhacker
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To: ravager

I have — or had — “friends” who have asked me for money and then got all indignant about it when I didn’t offer them as much as they thought I should. Which always struck me as ridiculous. It’s my decision, not theirs. Beggars can’t be choosers, etc.

I wonder if this little eruption has more to do with the bitterness some Indians still feel toward Britain over the British Raj?


45 posted on 02/06/2012 12:08:40 AM PST by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker

So? Take a look at the situation from India’s viewpoint:

There was a fair and open bidding contest, involving a couple of high- altitude tests. The British plane displays sub-par performance in critical areas, and you want India to take an existential risk to support British jobs, just because they’ve provided what amounts to a very meagre amount, per-capita, as a deal-sweetener in disguise?

A couple of years ago, India sent aid and aircraft to America during the Katrina debacle. Would you be comfortable with the idea that India might have gained political influence in the American government because of the aid?

Charity in the expectation of returns is never true charity.


46 posted on 02/06/2012 1:04:12 AM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: ravager
National pride, is still just pride, and it's a vice that is exploited by savvy politicians and others once this pride is able to blind people.

Pride is a vice and only in moderation does it have a positive aspect. It is good to have pride and ownership. It is what makes people keep order and maintenance to a society. But in excess it becomes arrogance or causes people to loose perspective and rational thought. It becomes something which demagogues exploit to seize power, to stir one group up against another. Of course you can also suppress pride, and this is a forced modesty which isn't good either.

Other aspects that are exploited by those that lead social movements and politicians are race (Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton), sex (Feminist movement), socio economic class (the leftist / socialist types with their age old scream for class warfare), national origin (The Irish and how they were singled out years past) and religion (Iran / Saudi Arabia etc), a few aspects that you also dabble into.

Hitler spoke to German pride in the 30s: http://www.youtube.com/verify_controversy?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3D26Mxy-9Sqb4 But obviously it's a racist conspiracy against you, and you have your pride now. I'm happy for you.

47 posted on 02/06/2012 1:18:47 AM PST by Red6
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To: LibWhacker
Can you imagine the gall? £280million a year is nothing to sneeze at, even if you are a whole country.

No, but worthless twits (or much worse!) are.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/10/11/rec.giuliani.prince/ [Note the date]

48 posted on 02/06/2012 1:25:27 AM PST by cynwoody
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To: ravager
Politicians are whores that get pimped out by a “war industrial complex” (A liberal / hippy phrase, I know). But it is true in this case. They fly all over the place making deals for those people that then turn around and finance their political existence.

Who would have thought that the ultra liberal Obama gets knee deep into defense deals as in Brazil? Money talks, that's what this is all about. Who would have thought that German Social Democrats (usually near pacifist and anti defense and arms exports) get heavily involved in arms deals with Saudi Arabia?...

49 posted on 02/06/2012 1:28:59 AM PST by Red6
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To: cynwoody

Perfect example of a politician exploiting the contemporary “mood” of the people.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/10/11/rec.giuliani.prince/

$10,000,000 is still money and who says that this prince had any intent other than to help, as we slap him in the face?


50 posted on 02/06/2012 1:33:32 AM PST by Red6
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