Skip to comments.'The Mahdi does not negotiate. Neither should we'
Posted on 02/05/2012 2:13:51 PM PST by Nachum
Several years ago, prior to my retirement from the CIA, I was meeting with a senior Iranian asset in the Middle East. I had finished debriefing him on the intelligence he had to provide, and we had launched into a more expansive conversation about the overall direction of American policy toward Iran. I was trying to explain the rationale behind our sanctions regime and the thought process that had led us to conclude that we could persuade the Islamic Republic of Iran to modify its behavior.
The asset interrupted me. "You really don't have any idea who you are dealing with, do you?" he asked. I told him I was not sure I understood what he meant.
The source elaborated. We were under the illusion we were dealing with rational actors. We were not. We were under the illusion we were playing a game, which would stretch out over many years. Our adversaries in Iran shared no such belief. They expected this conflict to reach its climax in the very near future.
They also knew, to a moral certainty, that they would win.
Iran is an overwhelmingly Islamic nation, and almost all Iranians belong to the Twelver sect of the Shia branch of Islam. This sect awaits the return of the 12th Imam, or Mahdi, a direct descendant of the Prophet Muhammed anointed by Allah himself. According to the Twelvers, the Mahdi has been in hiding in caves since the 9th century.
The Mahdi has been hidden for 1,200 years now, but he will return just before the Day of Judgment. According to the Hadith, his return will be preceded by three years of chaos, violence and cataclysmic events. He will rule over the world for a period of seven years, eliminate all tyranny and oppression,
(Excerpt) Read more at 2.tbo.com ...
I remember as a kid,, going weeks or months,,and never hearing a word about islam, or that wretched part of the world.
I would love a day without islam.
Very sobering but many of us already knew what we were dealing with.Too bad many in charge do not.
Thanks for posting.
I love it when someone who had “Been there, Done that, Got the T-shirt” confirms what I have always said.
Iran is an overwhelmingly Islamic nation, and almost all Iranians belong to the Twelver sect of the Shia branch of Islam. This sect awaits the return of the 12th Imam, or Mahdi, a direct descendant of the Prophet Muhammed anointed by Allah himself. According to the Twelvers, the Mahdi has been in hiding in caves since the 9th century.The Mahdi hides in caves knee-deep in pungent bat guano but he doesn't negotiate?
Great point! You have just stolen my thunder
My earliest memory of the ME is the Iran Hostage Crisis.
Part of the reason was that there weren’t many muslims in the US when you were a kid. I have attached a link to the US Census Bureau which shows that the islamic population of the US increased by 156% from 1990 - 2008, from 527,000 to 1,349,000. I have read that the US islamic population was around 100,000 in 1970, but the 1970 census data is voluminous and I have found only .pdf images, no digital data. So the islamic population has grown to 3 times the 1990 figures and 15 times the 1970 figures if you believe these stats.
I suspect that the policy allowing preferential immigration from cultures dedicated to the destruction of our own is part of the Progressive need for self destruction, but I admit a personal bias in this regard.
Israel certainly knows the irrational calculus driving the leadership in Iran. They will not sit back and wait for an attack they know is coming. And their action is coming soon.
Same here, followed by the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
Born in ‘72.
I hate it that the best Israel can hope from us is that we don’t betray them any farther. I hope they know not to tell our government what they’re gonna do before they do, because the Muslim-in-Chief would make sure any attempt at Israeli self-defense would fail.
When Israel attacks Iran’s nuclear sites, it will face two enemies. One, the Iranian military. Two, the weasels in Obama’s Defense Dept. who will be on the phone to Iran and the press giving warnings that Israel’s jets have just taken off. It will be very messy over there.
That is what we will do "continue to kick the can down the road".-Tom
Well, being a Muslim stuffed down a well and all, I'd suspect he's not all that well socialized, and still won't be, whenever he pops out.
This is a film sponsored by the very top level of the Iranian government and clerics, made to spread to the top layer of the government and others around the Muslim world telling them that the 12th Imam is close at hand and to prepare (for the Armageddon war).
What happens when the Mahdi fails to appear, no matter how far the chaos escalates?
Just looking at the timing here. The author of that piece retired from the CIA in May of 2008. He spoke to this source shortly before that, since he says it was “several years ago”. The source said Ahmadinejad was looking for the Mahdi to come within about 18 months to 2 years.
If that discussion took place at the beginning of 2008, then Mahmoud was thinking sometime around mid-2009 to the end of 2010.
In May of 2010 Isreali press reported that the Egyptian ambassador had given an interview on TV where he said that Barack Obama had said to him in confidence that he was and still is a Muslim who supports the Muslim agenda. (See http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/06/-obama-tells-egyptian-foreign-minister-i-am-a-muslim-stealth-coup-on-the-white-house.html )
From Geller’s site cited above:
“Finally, during the week of 14-18th of January 2010, just on the eve of my winter tour to the US, Rachel picked up a Nile TV broadcast in which Egyptian Foreign Minister Abul Gheit said on the “Round Table Show” that he had had a one on one meeting with Obama who swore to him that he was a Moslem, the son of a Moslem father and step-son of Moslem step-father, that his half-brothers in Kenya were Moslems, and that he was loyal to the Moslem agenda. He asked that the Moslem world show patience. Obama promised that once he overcame some domestic American problems (Healthcare), that he would show the Moslem world what he would do with Israel. (more here)”
Geller cites news reports that place that one-on-one meeting between Obama and Gheit on January 8, 2010.
So as of early January 2010 Obama was asking the Muslim world to be patient with him - that he would first take care of healthcare and then get to the important work of “what he would do with Israel”.
So after 6 months of being in the White House Obama was explaining to the Muslim world why he hadn’t yet taken care of Israel. Ahmadinejad was expecting the job done by around the end of 2010.
People, I’ve been saying for quite a while that Soros and his communist-Islamist allies made the September 2008 run on the bank in order to get Obama into office to implement the communist-Islamist agenda of overthrowing America and capitalism. Now it appears that around the time that Obama’s passport file was being sanitized, Ahmadinejad was expecting the 12th Imam to be ushered in within the first 1-2 years of the next POTUS’ inauguration. Six months into the job, Obama felt like he needed to tell the Muslim world what was slowing him down.
Remember how Obama’s campaign specifically disabled the address verification for credit card campaign donations, so that a couple million dollars’ worth of campaign contributions couldn’t be tracked?
Remember how Ghadaffi was saying that Obama is a Muslim, and the various reports that the whole Middle East pretty much knew Obama is a Muslim? Remember the explanations that if Obama was NOT a Muslim practicing taqiyya he would be considered an apostate and deserving of the death penalty? Remember the “truth squads” down in Missouri right before the election - where law enforcement officers swore that they would give anybody problems if they had lawn signs, etc saying that Obama is a Muslim?
Remember when a sting operation caught 5 Muslims in Brooklyn(?) thinking they were setting up bombs, and then a little bit later there was the Muslim who shot the military recruiter in ARkansas? All those guys were Black Muslim converts, and there was a report from FBI insiders around then who said that the DOJ had told them they couldn’t investigate Black Muslim converts? Think of the New Black Panther Party voter intimidation case that was already won and then the DOJ nixed the case.
And then think about Arab Spring, and how the only insurrection Obama DIDN’T support was the one against Ahmadinejad. All the others were Muslim Brotherhood and Al Qaeda rising up against the secular government that aided the US in the war on terror.
Realize also that George Soros has said that he is afraid the US would win the “war on terror” because then the US would be strong and capitalism would thrive - both of which he considers to be the great evil. George Soros believes that he himself is God. Realize also that he has said that he has bought and paid for the democratic party; it is his.
Fast forward to today, when the “domestic issue” that Obama had to work on in early January, 2010, before he could go after Israel is now forcing the largest Christian body in the US (Catholics) to commit what they believe to be murder. The US government is forcing US Christians into committing abortions.
People, this boa is already so tight around our necks that if we don’t rise up against it now it will be way too late. Obama has planned with Soros and all the communist-Islamist allies to take over the foundations of this country and replace it with Sharia. The two parts of the “Muslim agenda” that both shia and sunnis agree on are these: the destruction of the US and Israel, and the institution of worldwide sharia.
US tax money has already gone to Kenya to support a new Constitution there that institutes sharia - a payoff for Obama’s cousin, Raila Odinga, who agreed in a Memorandum of Understanding to institute sharia there if the Muslims would support him in the election of Dec 2007(that is, go on violent rampages if the stolen election plan failed; the violence succeeded in getting Odinga into power). It is a Kenyan teroorist group that is wreaking havoc in Mogadishu these days.
I had said a long time ago that I would flesh out why it is that I believe Soros and his communist-Islamist allies made the Sept 2008 run on the bank in order to get Obama elected to a position where he could serve both factions by destroying America. There is just SO MUCH stuff that points that direction, I don’t know if I could get it all into one document.
This article provides insight into the timing - when the plans were being made. Rush Limbaugh said at one point that the dems had been planning to weaken the economy and were just surprised that it was as bad as it was when the Sept run happened. I think that’s an innocent view of what really happened. I think this whole thing was in the works for a long time before that. We know that the Cloward-Piven Plan was in the works for a long time, and that Obama as a signed member of the New Party in Chicago became the lawyer who fought for 2 major planks of that Cloward-Piven Plan (Motor Voter to undermine elections and Community Reinvestment Act bullying to undermine the economy - which is what eventually enabled the Sept 2008 run on the bank to be effective). Now it really looks like Ahmadinejad in early 2008 was already planning on the next US president ushering in the return of the Mahdi.
Then, some enterprising mullah will don his clothes and climb out of the well, declaring his fealty to Barack Hussein Obama.
I don't know how to answer the question. Their prophecy is that the 12th Imam will appear after greatly destructive wars, and for them it isn't cheating if they are the ones who start the wars. If he doesn't appear, then is it just that they weren't bloody enough? Will they reject the prophecy, or just keep biding their time? I don't know.
But since it requires an armageddon, and paradise is on the other side of that, how much damage are they willing to inflict on others, and how much are they willing to suffer themselves, before they call an end? This is more like the end days of Imperial Japan, a near genocidal conflict they are willing to accept on their own people, who will afterwards be in paradise of course.
The most disturbing thing for me is their nuclear missle program, which seems to be designed to be used in an EMP attack on the US.
The WWII Japs were equally fanatical. Surprising what an instant nuclear shock treatment at Hiroshima and Nagasaki did for that mass psychosis. The world’s Muzzies could well@ benefit from a similar treatment.
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I’m sure the Iranians already have direct-action teams in the USA. That was the point of the driveway assassination of the female Iranian dissident in Texas a few weeks ago. Her machinegun slaying, that nobody heard, (indicating multiple suppressed full-auto weapons) came just a day or two after an overt, public, official Iranian warning about taking the war to America.
She was “only an Iranian” and so it made almost no news, but her murder was clearly a warning shot across our bow that they have hit teams here ready to act.
If he had recorded, “Fight to the last breath, even with sharpened bamboo spears,” they would have. Just as Jap soldiers hid in Pacific island jungles for decades after WW2, because their “standing orders” were to continue to resist. Even in the 1970s, some of them had to be coaxed out of hiding by old NCOs in airplanes overhead on loudspeakers. Otherwise, no surrender.
However, the Muslims have no Emperor or Pope to obey. Nobody could “order” Muslims to stand down, the way Hirohito ordered the Japanese.
The Muslim critical node is different. It's three cities, Mecca, Medina and Q’om (for the Shiites, in Iran.) Take out those three cities, and POOF! No more Islam. There cannot be any alteration to the eternal “Five Pillars of Islam.” Two of the five pillars depend on the physical existence of the black moon rock in Mecca. No moon rock, no Mecca, no Islam. Islam is “the perfect and complete religion” in their minds. Allahu Akbar means, “Our god is greatest.” The black moon rock is the physical manifestation of that god, the hard drive of Islam.
No black moon rock, no Islam.
“We're going to find out, sooner or later, if Abdul will pray, to a glowing crater.”
Well Dang he should have seen the Madonna show.
Maybe there will be a couple of really pissed people over there.
This is more like the end days of Imperial Japan, a near genocidal conflict they are willing to accept on their own people, who will afterwards be in paradise of course.
We know how it ended for Imperial Japan, of course.
I just saw a quote by zer0 that “negotiation is preferred”, with Iran.
The EMP possibility worries me, as well. I feel way too old for a 19th century existence.
Could this Mahdi be the Anti-Christ? Seems plausible if not likely.
Most Twelvers, what are sometimes called "orthodox Twelvers", do not think that they should be creating chaos to hasten the coming of the Imam Madhi. They think that Muslims should patiently await his coming. The Grand Ayatollah Ali Al Sistani is a Twelver, and except for a brief period of three months when, for internal reasons in the Iraqi Shi'ite community, he tilted toward the Iranian backed Sadrist faction, effectively supported our invasion of Iraq and was instrumental in getting the Shi'ites to accept the U.S. proposed constitution, including super-majority provisions which were being opposed by others as an "infidel trick". He read our history and saw that super-majority provisions in our constitution and in our constitutional adoption procedure were a benefit we had given ourselves and were now passing on to the Iraqis.
The Twelvers who are quite insane are the minority Ta'ajili (sometimes transliterated without the second a) or "Hastner" sect who think that they can and should create the chaos in which the Imam Madhi is supposed to appear. Most Twelvers regard the Ta'ajili as insane, even as you and I do.
Get this straight. (Besides his over the top style, the mistake of regarding all Twelver Shi'ites as Hasteners -- thereby offending the post pro-U.S. factions in Iraq -- is probably the thing about Glenn Beck that most annoyed me until he started backing Romney.)
And that is why the Israeli advance warning to the U.S. will be given when their planes take off. I suspect it will be given in advance of the attack on the Iranian nuclear facilities but simultaneously with the first attacks to degrade Iranian air defenses.
You are 100 percent correct, the mahdi is in the white house, that is why iran is so confident. Obama was smuggled to the United States with the help of his communist mother and parents to be raised, protected, and groomed to become president. However, the Dajjal, islames anti-christ will protect Israel and destroy islame once and for all. I want everyone to know that the mahdi will be accompanied by Issa(Jesus), a fake Jesus to deceive all Christians, they will be deceived, for issa will act and appear just like the true son of God, but he will state that the mahdi is the true son of god. I beg that every Christian realize that the Dajjal is the true son of God, he will return in his crucified body, crippled and blind, and those who are deceived will say: “how can this be the son of God, he is not perfect”, don’t listen to them, he is perfect in spirit. The end times are upon us, sad, but true, take comfort that the religion of lucifer, the failed prophet, Islame will finally be destroyed and the Dajjal, the true Jesus will hold those who seek to destroy his name accountable: communists, muslims, labor, they seek to make us forget his name. The Harry Reids, Pelosis, and Soros’s of the world will gnash their teeth and tongues when they realize they were wrong. God protect Israel! Nazi socialism never died, it just morphed into the democrats and labor ideals of today!
Actually, it is only the Sunnis who have no central authority to whom they look (since the fall of the Ottoman Empire, until then the Ottoman Sultan had been the Caliph for centuries). The Iranian Shi’ites who are loyal to the government would stand down at the order of Ayatollah Khamenei. Those who aren’t probably regard Ayatollah Al Sistani of Iraq as their point of reference, and although he very cleverly words all of his pronouncements to avoid the appearance of siding with infidels against Muslims, he has been objectively pro-American since our invasion of Iraq. The ones who follow him wouldn’t really be a problem.
Actually Q’om is not that important a city to anyone. It may function as the clerical capital of Iran, but all of the major holy sites of Shia Islam are located in Iraq, Saudi Arabia or Syria (the most important being Najaf and Karbala in Iraq). The mosque in Q’om is maybe 15th or 16th in importance to Twelver Sh’ites.
Well, that’s how it looks from over here among us hard-core Gingrich supporters — maybe it’s just his style grating on me more than usual when he attacks/criticizes Gingrich. You can check my facts about Shia Islam if you want, but don’t join Beck in tarring all Twelvers as lunatics bent on creating chaos to bring the Imam Madhi out of hiding. Some Twelvers are actually our allies, and most of them think the Ta’ajilis are nuts.
Waste someone else’s time.
Hasan has not been charged.
AQ Taliban leader to go back home.
Jarrett, the Iranian, is the shadow POTUS.
45 muslim resumes requested in 2009
terrorist changed to Americans.
nothing about islam, terrorism, sharia in military training docs being implemented
the rise of the MB
Hamas and Hezbollah on the Mexican border
prayer rugs in the Arizona desert
Malihi is Iranian
Then, there’s Neda.
Covering the cross, “we’re not a Christian nation”, “we are the largest muslim nation on earth.”
Twelvers are bat sh!t crazy. They believe in their own beliefs in a way that is not Western. At all.
Don’t forget 21 December 2012 and the EOW!
Nukes, Earthquakes, Global Diasters, Madhi return, Debt Crisis, Riots, Protesters, Famine, the US Elections and the worst part if Obama gets re-elected were all doomed.
Looks like 2012 will be a year I would like to skip.
Mahdi=Anti-Christ. One can not make a deal with Satan. He’s in it for keeps. Its a Holy War folks—don’t forget it because our enemies don’t.
I thought that the sacred well containing the 12 Mahdi was located in Qom? I’ve seen video of pilgrims sticking their notes through the grate down the hole to appeal to the 12 Mahdi directly.
If Qom turned into a giant crater, along with Mecca and Medina, you don’t think this would affect the Islamic religion worldwide?
Would they start praying, “Our god USED to be greatest” and carry on with “The Three Pillars of Islam?
Nope. I can’t see it.
So if Israel takes out the place where their idol abides, all Israel has to fear is sheer anger/vengeance rather than an enemy’s devotion to a murderous religion?
What are they waiting for?
I do remember gas lines and Carter wearing a sweater telling Americans to make do with less energy. Even as a five-year-old, I could tell he was a flippin’ idiot.