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Ron Paul Tells CNN’s Piers Morgan Only “Honest Rape” Warrants An Abortion. (Honest Rape?)
Hinterland Gazette ^

Posted on 02/05/2012 6:59:20 PM PST by mnehring

Edited on 02/05/2012 7:06:55 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

During an appearance on CNN’s Piers Morgan, GOP presidential hopeful Ron Paul was asked whether as a man with daughters and granddaughters, Rep. Paul (R-TX) thinks that abortion is warranted if a woman has been impregnated by a rapist.

“If it’s an honest rape,” Paul replied, “that individual should go immediately to the emergency room, I would give them a shot of estrogen.” He claimed, however, that if a woman is “seven months pregnant” and says that she was raped, “It’s a little bit of a different story.” Source


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: abortion; moralabsolutes; prolife; rape; rino; ronpaul
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To: lynn4303

Sure you are not an alterPaul supporter.(eye roll)
alterPaul knows as much about the founding and Constitution as Fred Phelps knows about the Bible.
There have been many and myself included that have posted dozens of links to alterPauls own words that back up his delusion.
I am not doing it again, alterPaul supporters are not interested.


51 posted on 02/05/2012 7:45:04 PM PST by svcw (Only difference between Romney & BH is one thinks he will be god & other one thinks he already is.)
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To: surroundedbyblue

Do you think a rape victim should be forced to carry her child to term ? have you ever been raped and how do feel about condoms or the pill?


52 posted on 02/05/2012 7:47:58 PM PST by Charlespg
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To: muawiyah

Hey in my “perfect world” rapists would be executed, and it would not take months or years.

If you were given a choice between abortion on demand remaining completely legal, even at tax payer expense or abortion being outlawed but with rape being one of very few exceptions, in which case the rape victim would be offered the “morning after pill” only once, in the ER once the rape is confirmed by a medical doctor and that was her only opportunity.....you would choose the first or the second scenario?


53 posted on 02/05/2012 7:49:27 PM PST by Grunthor (Mitt Romney and anyone supporting him can go fornicate themselves with a cactus)
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To: muawiyah

Most people would not vote to outlaw abortion in all cases, including rape. I think abortion is evil. I would even advise my daughter to bear the child if she was raped. It would be the right thing to do. However, I don’t think I have a right to force her to keep a child conceived by rape.

I know many FReepers are absolutely dead set against abortion in all circumstances, and they believe government should protect every child at the moment of conception. But it’s wrong, in my opinion, to demonize everyone who agonizes over the extreme cases, like rape. At least have the honesty to admit administering an injection immediately after a rape is not the exact same circumstance as aborting a 7 month old fetus (like Ron Paul was pointing out).

Fortunately, my family has never faced this particular dilemma. I’d also vote for any law that outlawed abortion except in cases of rape or incest. That would be a far, far cry better than what we have now, and I wouldn’t sit the vote out because the law wasn’t pure enough.


54 posted on 02/05/2012 7:51:59 PM PST by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Anyone can do it. Good is more work but worth it!)
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To: surroundedbyblue

Ok.....you are placed in a position of power over rape victims. You try to counsel them in love (as I believe you would) but some are simply not going to make the choice that you want them to make.

What do you do with them?


55 posted on 02/05/2012 7:53:33 PM PST by Grunthor (Mitt Romney and anyone supporting him can go fornicate themselves with a cactus)
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To: svcw
No, I am not a Ron Paul supporter. Just shows how stupid you are. And the second part of your answer belies your lack of intelligence on the subject being discussed. I offered you an opportunity to show your points and support your argument with facts. But you are unable to do that. Again you are a keyboard cowboy. All bad and tough as long as you aren’t available in person. Instead of answering and supporting your ramblings, you must mock and deride. A fine example you display of your intelligence and how you were raised.
56 posted on 02/05/2012 7:54:26 PM PST by lynn4303
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To: Grunthor

Nothing. Abortion is legal. What more could I do??


57 posted on 02/05/2012 7:55:30 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: CitizenUSA

100% agree.


58 posted on 02/05/2012 7:57:00 PM PST by Grunthor (Mitt Romney and anyone supporting him can go fornicate themselves with a cactus)
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To: Grunthor

Mean’t?

:-)


59 posted on 02/05/2012 7:57:10 PM PST by Larry Lucido (My doctor told me to curtail my Walpoling activities.)
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To: lynn4303

lynn4303: “This board use to be rich with good honest political discussion.”

Yes! Let’s say people actually started discussing why they believe what they believe rather than calling everyone else nutjobs. Might they convince others to change their opinions? Seems possible.


60 posted on 02/05/2012 8:00:16 PM PST by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Anyone can do it. Good is more work but worth it!)
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To: CitizenUSA
Again, one more time ~ if we are going to execute a rapist we want to make doggone sure the kid is his, right? Else, he's not the rapist and it would be wrong to execute him.

You must follow from that into the realm of law where you have NO ABORTION but with a RAPE EXCEPTION.

With no rape, there's no abortion. if there's a claim of rape, but the accusation is false, there's still no abortion. If the rape can be proved, then you execute the rapist and the kid, right?

Now, what happens if this takes so long the baby is born, but you do find out the guy was a rapist. Do you then execute the baby as well as the rapist?

What if it languishes for years ~ due to faulty evidence, can we track down the offspring once they reach adulthood and skrag them?

What are your cutoff points. What are your details. How do you deal with reality?

You can treat these as rhetorical questions, but I'd think you'd have to agree that the "rape exception" is a rather difficult exception to administer.

61 posted on 02/05/2012 8:01:43 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: lynn4303

Ok, Lynn, what part of “I have and others” have posted dozens of links to alterPaul words which show his delusions do you not understand.
I am not doing it again.
I am mocking you, not alterPaul.
alterPaul is not the person whom you think he is. That is your issue not mine.
This post is about abortion and it is clear that alterPaul is not pro-life - it is that simple.
Try and keep up.
toot-a-loo


62 posted on 02/05/2012 8:03:37 PM PST by svcw (Only difference between Romney & BH is one thinks he will be god & other one thinks he already is.)
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To: no dems; Grunthor

Got it, thanks.


63 posted on 02/05/2012 8:06:00 PM PST by svcw (Only difference between Romney & BH is one thinks he will be god & other one thinks he already is.)
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To: mnehring
Dr. Paul's response bears very close examination because if he is prescribing abortifacient (estrogen shot) treatment for a rape victim, I don't think I can support him anymore.

Mary MacGregor: Robert, there is more. I am carrying a child and I do not know who is the father."
Robert Roy MacGregor: Ach, Mary...
Mary MacGregor: I could not kill it, husband.
Robert Roy MacGregor: It's not the child that needs killing.

64 posted on 02/05/2012 8:07:18 PM PST by Theophilus (Not merely prolife, but prolific)
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To: Grunthor
I would, at a minimum, demand evidence of a rape ~ since as soon as you outlaw abortion on demand you're going to have the Planned Parenthood harpies and ghoulies figuring out all sorts of ways to lie and cheat the system.

You have to deal with reality.

With the evidence in hand, and a foreshortened prosecution cycle (maybe as fast as the old abortion on demand cycle), we still need to execute the rapist first.

Cynic that I am I think the rape rate would decline.

We probably ought to legislate a death penalty for falsifying a rape too. That's to keep the number of false positives down.

Remember, all these thoughts are occurring to me within the context of a system that says in cases of rape somebody is going to die. I simply want the rapist to be the one who does the dying. We have a shortage of adoptable babies.

65 posted on 02/05/2012 8:08:23 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: CitizenUSA
Fortunately, my family has never faced this particular dilemma. I’d also vote for any law that outlawed abortion except in cases of rape or incest. That would be a far, far cry better than what we have now, and I wouldn’t sit the vote out because the law wasn’t pure enough.

that's pretty much how I feel , I don't agree with abortion for convenience sake but I do see a exception in cases like rape or incest ,or to save the mothers life

66 posted on 02/05/2012 8:09:27 PM PST by Charlespg
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To: altura

So because there maybe a rape the baby should be dismembered or burned to death and that is ok?
Got it.


67 posted on 02/05/2012 8:10:03 PM PST by svcw (Only difference between Romney & BH is one thinks he will be god & other one thinks he already is.)
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To: muawiyah

Yes, we do have a shortage of adoptable babies. Thank you for bringing that up.

Our unplanned babies in the US end up in a dumpster or down a garbage disposal at the local abortion clinc. All tax-payer funded.


68 posted on 02/05/2012 8:11:29 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: mnehring

Okay folks, I’ve gone through this before.

I’m assuming all of us posting on this thread agree that at fertilization a new and unique human being is created. From this it follows that destroying an embryo or a foetus is homicide. Note I was very careful, homicide, not murder. Homicide committed on a whim, for convenience, simply because one wants it is murder. But we are left with the question of whether any abortions are justifiable homicide, rather than murder.

I think all who reason clearly about moral matters will agree that in a circumstance where the continued growth of the child will result in the death of both mother and child (e.g. an ectopic pregnancy) an abortion is justifiable homicide, rather than murder. In other cases some medical problem could render the mother incapable of carrying the child to term or until a caesarian delivery could allow the child to survive in the care of neonatologists even though the child is growing normally in her womb.

Beyond that, as in all case of potentially justifiable homicide, there are likelihoods to consider. Most everyone on FR supports a strong castle doctrine in which an intruder in a home who does not flee when ordered off may be presumed to be a threat to life and limb and shot out of hand. There are circumstances in which continuing a pregnancy is probabilistically more of a threat to the mother’s life than an intruder is to a householder’s life. Should abortion in those circumstances be viewed by the law as justifiable homicide? (Certainly as Christians, we should hope and pray that a Christian woman might be given grace to risk what is arguably a martyric death seeking to carry the child to term, but should the law oblige her to undertake that podvig, as we Orthodox call a spiritual burden?)

Which brings me to the point at hand. Those who argue for an exception to a general prohibition against abortion in case where the pregnancy was engendered by rape or incest do so on the basis that such an abortion is in the nature of self-defense: the carrying of the child is a continuation of the violation of the woman. Again, we might find a difference between what we might hope and pray as Christians — that the woman be given the grace to bear the burden as a witness to the sanctity of life as a gift of God — and what the state ought to impose upon the woman. In a well-ordered Christian society, society would support, indeed hold up as exemplary, a woman who bears the burden of carrying a rapist’s child to term. Alas, we do not live in such a society. In the existing world, I would be content with a rape-and-incest exception to go along with a life-of-the-mother exception to a general prohibition on abortion.

And finally to Congressman Paul’s point: a rape exception should not be so elastic as to permit abortions on the basis of women having regrets for consensual sex and deciding “it was rape” after the fact, esp. long after the fact (that glass of wine I had with dinner impaired my ability to consent. . . ). As I pointed out in my other post to this thread, it is not his fault that the meaning of “rape” has been so expanded that infelicitous (”honest rape”, “rape rape”) are now needed to recapture its original sense.


69 posted on 02/05/2012 8:11:35 PM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: CitizenUSA

alterPaul supports abortion - nuff said.


70 posted on 02/05/2012 8:12:19 PM PST by svcw (Only difference between Romney & BH is one thinks he will be god & other one thinks he already is.)
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To: svcw

And “mocking” is what part of intelligent debate. Again go back and read my posts. I was attempting to get you to demonstrate your knowledge. I assumed you had some. Despite my best intentions you keep proving me wrong


71 posted on 02/05/2012 8:14:27 PM PST by lynn4303
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To: Charlespg

Yes, no carried to term, adoption
Your premise is idiotic.
Birth control - great , not likely a rapist would use it.


72 posted on 02/05/2012 8:17:07 PM PST by svcw (Only difference between Romney & BH is one thinks he will be god & other one thinks he already is.)
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To: mamelukesabre

Otherwise known as good, old-fashioned rape!

/s


73 posted on 02/05/2012 8:18:54 PM PST by PGR88
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To: muawiyah

muawiyah: “You can treat these as rhetorical questions, but I’d think you’d have to agree that the “rape exception” is a rather difficult exception to administer.”

Yes. I agree a “rape exception” is a difficult exception to administer. However, if that’s what it took to actually eliminate the other 99.9% of abortions, then that’s an exception I’d embrace. We could easily get a political majority to support restrictions on abortion in all but extreme cases, like rape and incest. I would not delay saving the 99.9% in order to save the 0.1%.


74 posted on 02/05/2012 8:19:18 PM PST by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Anyone can do it. Good is more work but worth it!)
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To: The_Reader_David
You should have read down a little further. I pointed to your argument at post #10.

A number of folks have taken my suggestion and flipped this over to the question of EXECUTING THE RAPIST, which includes establishing the evidence necessary to prove that a rape occurred.

If we ban abortion but leave an exception there, we need to establish what the details in that sticky wicket are. Simply stipulating that if this is a crime worthy of the death of someone we should certainly consider the rapist a candidate for that first, we can see where the exception really takes us.

Through experience arguing this case for over 3 decades I've noticed that MOST PEOPLE find it easy enough to say "give an exception" but they have difficulty dealing with the EVIDENTIARY TRAIL necessary to justify executing the rapist.

It's just a corollary.

Let me say this about your post. If you can dump that much stuff into the hopper, I'd think you could argue the EXECUTE THE RAPIST side equally well.

Try it, let's see what you've really got to say!

75 posted on 02/05/2012 8:21:02 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: svcw
Your premise is idiotic.

so you'd force a rape victim to carry to term ?

76 posted on 02/05/2012 8:21:20 PM PST by Charlespg
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To: mamelukesabre
I think its pretty obvious what he meant.

It's not the least bit obvious to me, so here I am. Enlighten me, please.

77 posted on 02/05/2012 8:22:37 PM PST by John Valentine (Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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To: lynn4303

So cute.
I told you that myself and others have posted dozens of links showing alterPauls delusions and I am not doing it again.
Take it or leave it I do not care.
The bottem line is that alterPaul supports abortion, as evident by what he just said.
He is not the pro-life guy he (supporters) claims to(him) be.


78 posted on 02/05/2012 8:22:51 PM PST by svcw (Only difference between Romney & BH is one thinks he will be god & other one thinks he already is.)
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To: lynn4303

So cute.
I told you that myself and others have posted dozens of links showing alterPauls delusions and I am not doing it again.
Take it or leave it I do not care.
The bottom line is that alterPaul supports abortion, as evident by what he just said.
He is not the pro-life guy he (supporters) claims to(him) be.


79 posted on 02/05/2012 8:23:25 PM PST by svcw (Only difference between Romney & BH is one thinks he will be god & other one thinks he already is.)
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To: Charlespg

So you are willing to kill an innocent baby - got it.


80 posted on 02/05/2012 8:25:46 PM PST by svcw (Only difference between Romney & BH is one thinks he will be god & other one thinks he already is.)
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To: 1_Rain_Drop

“forcible” rape, maybe? (full circle)


81 posted on 02/05/2012 8:27:20 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: CitizenUSA
It should be possible to get an absolute prohibition on abortion ~ its existence in this country rests solely at the hands of the Supreme Court.

Envision Ruthy's pancreatic cancer sweeping back in this week and she's gone by next week. The funny little Latina whose been mainlining all sorts of insulin for 40 years could simply collapse in a heap of broken bones. Then, there's the gal from Harvard ~ she's carrying entirely too much weight. A heart attack is in the realm of possibility.

That's 3. Presuming that happens too late for an outgoing Obama regime to do anything about it, the new guy coming in as President can appoint the people we need giving us a 7 to 2 court.

So, don't rule out an absolute prohibition with no exceptions.

82 posted on 02/05/2012 8:28:05 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: svcw

svcw: “So because there maybe a rape the baby should be dismembered or burned to death and that is ok?”

An injection immediately after the rape doesn’t dismember or burn a baby. That’s not to say I have no moral qualms against treatments like the morning after pill. I do, but let’s not sensationalize it.

I think this is a very fair description:

http://www.morningafterpill.org/how-does-it-work.html

Note that the pill can delay ovulation, prevent an egg from being released, and irritate the lining of the uterus so a fertilized egg won’t implant. Only the latter actually destroys a fertilized egg.


83 posted on 02/05/2012 8:30:07 PM PST by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Anyone can do it. Good is more work but worth it!)
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To: no dems
An “Honest” Rape is when a woman is violated against her will.

That's rape. Period.

Not when some girl gives it up for her boyfriend and then screams rapes, or some “wife” comes home from a business trip, after banging her boss in the hotel, and tells her husband he raped her.

Those scenarios are NOT rape in any way shape or form. Why even dignify them with the term "rape", even if it's "dishonest rape"? Why not call them what they are, filing a false report or even perjury?

84 posted on 02/05/2012 8:31:08 PM PST by John Valentine (Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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To: svcw

Why do you keep referring to him as “alterPaul”?


85 posted on 02/05/2012 8:33:51 PM PST by Huntress ("Politicians exploit economic illiteracy." --Walter Williams)
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To: svcw

And your the reason I despise the frothing at the mouth anti abortion nuts as much as I hate the Nazis at Planned parenthood ...forcing a rape victim to carry a child to term is something the koran animals would do


86 posted on 02/05/2012 8:35:37 PM PST by Charlespg
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To: mamelukesabre
I think its pretty obvious what he meant. I think its pretty obvious he’s right.

Respectfully, my FRiend, I do not agree.

I think that it's apparent that it meant something to him, and I do believe the gentleman to be, at times, insufficiently lucid.

I do not think that Dr. Paul is a bad or dishonest person.

That said, he lacks a certain continuous mental presence on the home planet.

.

87 posted on 02/05/2012 8:36:22 PM PST by Seaplaner (Never give in. Never give in. Never...except to convictions of honour and good sense. W. Churchill)
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To: Theophilus

With Neeson reportedly on the verge of converting to Islam, maybe the conversation would go more like this:

Mary MacGregor: Robert, there is more. I am carrying a child and I do not know who is the father.”
Robert Roy MacGregor: Ach, Mary, how could you bring such shame on our family?
Mary MacGregor: I could not kill it, husband.
Robert Roy MacGregor: It’s not the child that needs killing, it’s you. The seed of your shame will perish in the womb as God wills.

However bad things might seem here, they could always be worse...


88 posted on 02/05/2012 8:38:22 PM PST by John Valentine (Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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To: Huntress

I really believe the man lives in an alternate universe.
It revolves a science fiction story line where there are alternate universes and the main charters refer to the people in the alternate universe as (whatever their names are) the other person as alter(whatever).
So Sam in this universe becomes alterSam in the alternate universe.
That’s all, I did not used to but the more he speaks the more it seems to fit.


89 posted on 02/05/2012 8:40:19 PM PST by svcw (Only difference between Romney & BH is one thinks he will be god & other one thinks he already is.)
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To: Charlespg
forcing a rape victim to carry a child to term is something the koran animals would do...

No they wouldn't. See my post No. 88 above.

90 posted on 02/05/2012 8:40:36 PM PST by John Valentine (Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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To: strider44
If my wife were raped there’s no way she’d keep that baby.

Has she actually told you that is how she feels?

If not, I think you'd be wise to make sure...

91 posted on 02/05/2012 8:41:11 PM PST by jonno (Having an opinion is not the same as having the answer...)
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To: Charlespg

The baby is innocent.


92 posted on 02/05/2012 8:41:42 PM PST by svcw (Only difference between Romney & BH is one thinks he will be god & other one thinks he already is.)
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To: John Valentine
Oh your right about that
93 posted on 02/05/2012 8:43:11 PM PST by Charlespg
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To: John Valentine

Exactly.


94 posted on 02/05/2012 8:43:46 PM PST by no dems (I'm more concerned with America's future than I am Newt's past.)
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To: Grunthor

It is an assumption based on ignorance that women who are victims of rape automatically want to abort - should they conceive.

It’s that old two wrongs don’t make a right sort of thing...


95 posted on 02/05/2012 8:45:54 PM PST by jonno (Having an opinion is not the same as having the answer...)
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To: mnehring

Wow...well, at least you have started a controversy here...

Yes, many of RAPE charges are false! It seems that the continue effects of feminism continue to be false!

Yes, the are many who claim false charges because they are drunk. Is that really fair? Most of the men were drunk also, should they be charged also? Mercy, when are we all going to be responsible for our own actions - drunk or not!

Ah, I give up, with today’s feminists and the blame men theology, we do not have a chance!

So, of course you would take the statements of the women and disregard the man’s statements, that seems to be the way things are going these days....

How about we give both the benefit of the doubt?


96 posted on 02/05/2012 8:46:19 PM PST by Deagle
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To: muawiyah

The evidence needed to permit an abortion under a rape exception is different from that needed to convict a rapist (whether capital punishment, castration, or imprisonment is the statutory punishment): for the first it is necessary to establish beyond a shadow of a doubt that the woman was raped, for the latter, it is also required that the identity of the rapist be established beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I would think that a properly constructed rape exception would require an evidentiary hearing to establish that a rape had taken place. Alas, we are very far from needing to consider the exact details at this point, even though a pro-life policy with such exceptions should garner majority support among the populace (unless the no-exceptions folk let the perfect be the enemy of the good and perversely side with the pro-abortion folk because they can’t get everything they want).


97 posted on 02/05/2012 8:47:26 PM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: John Valentine
they could always be worse...

That would be funny if it were not so sad, disgusting and true.

98 posted on 02/05/2012 8:48:09 PM PST by Theophilus (Not merely prolife, but prolific)
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To: Charlespg

I despise mewling cowards who abandon their reason when it gets difficult for their tender sensibilities to accept.


99 posted on 02/05/2012 8:48:09 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass
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To: mamelukesabre

“I think its pretty obvious he’s right.”

WRONG.

All abortion is murder. Abortionists are murderers, period. I don’t care who did a rape. One thing I know is that the child had NOTHING to do with it. Innocent life is INNOCENT, get it? A doctor nor a mother has the right to kill an innocent child of any age. Six years, six months, six days, six hours, or six seconds.


100 posted on 02/05/2012 8:49:26 PM PST by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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