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'The Oldest (Neanderthal) Work Of Art Ever': 42,000-Year-Old Paintings Of Seals Found In Spain
The Daily Mail ^ | 2-7-2012 | Tom Worden

Posted on 02/08/2012 10:36:42 AM PST by blam

'The Oldest (Neanderthal) Work Of Art Ever': 42,000-Year-Old Paintings Of Seals Found In Spanish Cave

* Six paintings were found in the Nerja Caves, 35miles east of Malaga
* They are the only known artistic images created by Neanderthal man

By Tom Worden
Last updated at 9:27 PM on 7th February 2012

Comments (38) Share The world's oldest works of art have been found in a cave on Spain's Costa del Sol, scientists believe. Six paintings of seals are at least 42,000 years old and are the only known artistic images created by Neanderthal man, experts claim.

Professor Jose Luis Sanchidrian, from the University of Cordoba, described the discovery as 'an academic bombshell', as all previous art work has been attributed to Homo sapiens.

Important find: These six paintings of seals were discovered in the Nerja Caves near Malaga, Spain. They are at least 42,000 years old and are the only known artistic images created by Neanderthal man

The paintings were found in the Nerja Caves, 35 miles east of Malaga in the southern region of Andalusia. Spanish scientists sent organic residue found next to the paintings to Miami, where they were dated at being between 43,500 and 42,300 years old.

They hope to establish the exact age by testing parts of the paintings themselves, but their investigation has been hampered by a lack of cash.

Antonio Garrido, in charge of preserving the caves, said the paintings could revolutionise our view of Neanderthal man, who is often portrayed as being monkey-like.

The Nerja Caves, an impressive series of enormous caverns, were discovered

(snip)

Tourist attraction: The caves are home to the world's largest stalagmite, standing 105ft tall

(snip)

Location: The paintings were found in the Nerja Caves on Spain's south coast

(snip)

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ancienthumans; archaeology; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; neandertal; neandertals; neanderthal; neanderthals
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WE ARE NEANDERTHALS!

Thanks to FReeper Viiksitimali for the article.

1 posted on 02/08/2012 10:36:57 AM PST by blam
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To: SunkenCiv; Viiksitimali

GGG Ping.


2 posted on 02/08/2012 10:38:18 AM PST by blam
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To: blam

Those aren’t seals! Those are secret Freemason symbols! But seriously, this is cool.


3 posted on 02/08/2012 10:41:45 AM PST by AD from SpringBay (We deserve the government we allow.)
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To: blam; Black Agnes
WE ARE NEANDERTHALS!

and we are rather different because of it...as should be painfully clear to anyone but the most obtuse

I support Michael Berry for President!

4 posted on 02/08/2012 10:42:57 AM PST by wardaddy (I am a social conservative. My political party left me(again). They can go to hell in a bucket.)
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To: blam
WE ARE NEANDERTHALS

absolutely....we may be blended with the late out of Africa tribes...but Europeans are Neanderthals and Asians contain other Homo Erectus genes....

but it is politically incorrect to say so...

5 posted on 02/08/2012 10:44:02 AM PST by Vaquero
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To: SunkenCiv; Viiksitimali
Modern Flint Expert 'Reverse Engineers' Neanderthal Stone Axes - And Says OUR ANCESTORS Were Clever, Elegant Craftsmen
6 posted on 02/08/2012 10:45:51 AM PST by blam
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To: blam

“And then came the first Art Critic.”


7 posted on 02/08/2012 10:47:41 AM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: blam

Not exactly, The Caves of Altamira, but still a good excuse to post some Steely Dan:

I recall when I was small
How I spent my days alone
The busy world was not for me
So I went and found my own
I would climb the garden wall
With a candle in my hand
I’d hide inside a hall of rock and sand
On the stone an ancient hand
In a faded yellow-green
Made alive a worldly wonder
Often told but never seen
Now and ever bound to labor
On the sea and in the sky
Every man and beast appeared
A friend as real as I

CHORUS:
Before the fall when they wrote it on the wall
When there wasn’t even any Hollywood
They heard the call
And they wrote it on the wall
For you and me we understood

Can it be this sad design
Could be the very same
A wooly man without a face
And a beast without a name
Nothin’ here but history
Can you see what has been done
Memory rush over me
Now I step into the sun


8 posted on 02/08/2012 10:50:18 AM PST by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: blam
Oh, seals. I thought that maybe the SEALS were preparing an ambush from 40,000BC.

More seriously, I'm surprised that anything survived in a cave with that many stalactites. Those are a sign that water is leaking into the cave and moisture isn't good for artwork.

9 posted on 02/08/2012 10:53:20 AM PST by KarlInOhio (You only have three billion heartbeats in a lifetime.How many does the government claim as its own?)
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To: blam

Sure those are Seals and not Cee Lo...?


10 posted on 02/08/2012 10:54:19 AM PST by freebilly (Obama Sings While America Sinks....)
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To: blam

"If I can do it, it's not art."

11 posted on 02/08/2012 10:58:15 AM PST by Snickering Hound
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To: blam

Just great. A monkey man from 42,000 years ago could draw better than me. :-/


12 posted on 02/08/2012 10:58:37 AM PST by Bobalu (It is not obama we are fighting, it is the media.)
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To: blam

DNA helicies


13 posted on 02/08/2012 10:58:55 AM PST by rod1
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To: blam

14 posted on 02/08/2012 10:59:49 AM PST by Hatteras
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To: blam
The paintings were found in the Nerja Caves, 35 miles east of Malaga in the southern region of Andalusia. Spanish scientists sent organic residue found next to the paintings to Miami, where they were dated at being between 43,500 and 42,300 years old.

Uuh, it's me the resident FR skeptic.

I thought these stalactites or stalagmites (I always forget which type hangs down.) were formed over long periods of time by water with with dissolved CaCO3 dripping into caves and essentially forming icicle-like these things. That means that they start off thin and grow thicker as additional water drips down the outside of the icicle, evaporates, and leaves more CaCO3 on the outside of the growing icicle. This means that whatever was painted on the outside, supposedly long ago, should be covered up now by more CaCO3 deposited in the interim. No?

ML/NJ

15 posted on 02/08/2012 11:00:26 AM PST by ml/nj
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To: blam

Spanish documentary
“Arqueomanía’ se adentra en La Cueva de Nerja “
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QLeDHWEk8wQ#t=240s

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/02/42000-year-old-art-from-andalusia.html


16 posted on 02/08/2012 11:05:54 AM PST by Viiksitimali
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To: Hatteras
The guy in the picture in post #14 has no Neanderthal DNA.

The Neanderthal Theory

17 posted on 02/08/2012 11:08:08 AM PST by blam
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To: blam

I drew those last week!


18 posted on 02/08/2012 11:09:49 AM PST by US_MilitaryRules (Unnngh! To many PDS people!)
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To: ml/nj

I noticed the same thing right away. This “discovery” does not pass the “smell test”, not by a long shot. The nearby stalactites are still growing, you can see that by the whites dots on their tips that are water drops reflecting the light.

It would be nearly impossible for these paintings to survive intact on the surface of a stalactite for 40,000 years.They would either be covered up by mineral deposits or eroded away.


19 posted on 02/08/2012 11:11:21 AM PST by BigBobber
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To: ml/nj

Why do you have to throw a monkey wrench into the fray? Nobody wants facts of reality! LOL


20 posted on 02/08/2012 11:13:39 AM PST by US_MilitaryRules (Unnngh! To many PDS people!)
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To: Viiksitimali
Stranger In A New Land

These 1.85 million year old people discovered in Dmanisi, Georgia had the most advanced tool technology anywhere in the world. It was only thousands of years later that technology this advanced appeared in Africa.

21 posted on 02/08/2012 11:15:21 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
An earlier find in Lebanon proves that Neanderthals lived there first. This self portrait was found in a caves high in the mountains of Lebanon and is dated at 50,000 BC.


22 posted on 02/08/2012 11:18:30 AM PST by ThomasMore (Islam is the Whore of Babylon!)
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To: BigBobber

Since I can’t post photos I tried finding the best thread to post this....huge shark whale caught and brought to land....does anybody know what this thing actually is?
Forgive me for this pause in your thread...

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/02/08/asia/gallery/whale-shark-gallery/index.html?hpt=hp_c3


23 posted on 02/08/2012 11:18:57 AM PST by caww
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To: blam
"The guy in the picture in post #14 has no Neanderthal DNA."

Ahh.. but he IS a Seal

24 posted on 02/08/2012 11:20:59 AM PST by Hatteras
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To: caww
It's a whale shark...


25 posted on 02/08/2012 11:25:50 AM PST by Hatteras
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To: ml/nj

Mite = MIGHT! as in making a fist to show off the impressive might of your bicep, and then raising your fist to your head height. Your forearm and fist are up, stalagmites point up too.

CaCo3 ceases to be deposited when the water containing dissolved CaCo3 ceases to flow over the surfaces of the dripstones. Hence, these dripstones are much older than 42kyr, and the cave is older than the dripstones.

Yep, your thinking was correct!


26 posted on 02/08/2012 11:26:46 AM PST by Graewoulf (( obama"care" violates the 1890 Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND is illegal by the U.S. Constitution.))
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To: ml/nj

Stalactites ( think “T” for top) do drip down from the top as you describe. They will continue to to so as long as the ground water conditions above the cave remain unchanged. I have no information on this detail for this cave but conditions could have changed and dried up millions of years before the painting were done and remained that way. Those stalactites could have been massive “ canvases” for that Neanderthal painter and way older than the paintings themselves.


27 posted on 02/08/2012 11:29:25 AM PST by muir_redwoods (No wonder this administration favors abortion; everything they have done is an abortion)
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To: Hatteras

Do they attack like other sharks? That thing is HUGE!


28 posted on 02/08/2012 11:36:46 AM PST by caww
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To: blam

GrandPappy sure could paint!


29 posted on 02/08/2012 11:40:05 AM PST by Neanderthal
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To: ml/nj
(I always forget which type hangs down.)

I had someone tell me the easiest way to remember was that stalactites "hang tight" to the ceiling. That was 30+ years ago, so it certainly stuck.

30 posted on 02/08/2012 11:42:12 AM PST by IYAS9YAS (Rose, there's a Messerschmitt in the kitchen. Clean it up, will ya?)
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To: ml/nj

“This means that whatever was painted on the outside, supposedly long ago, should be covered up now by more CaCO3 deposited in the interim. No?”

Maybe. Depends when the stalagmites stopped “growing” Eventually, they reach a size where the water can’t flow down them, or comes down unevenly.

Aside from the “art” issue, being this deep in a cave shows NT (or whomever) mastered not only fire, but mobile fire used for lighting a cave. That’s huge.


31 posted on 02/08/2012 11:45:10 AM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: blam

Watch out for the Seventh Seal!


32 posted on 02/08/2012 11:46:38 AM PST by fish hawk (Isa. 42:12 Let them give glory unto the Lord and declare his praise in the islands. (Maui))
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To: Jewbacca

Do you think Adam and Eve had to “master” carrying a torch?


33 posted on 02/08/2012 11:49:28 AM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: blam

How can they be sure they are depictions of seals, and not chicken-fried steaks?


34 posted on 02/08/2012 11:51:35 AM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: blam
The Neanderthal Theory

Who wrote that page?
35 posted on 02/08/2012 11:51:57 AM PST by Sopater (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. - 2 COR 3:17b)
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To: caww

Whale sharks are very docile creatures and yes, huge. They survive on plankton through a filter.

I went out to swim with them off the coast of Mexico years ago, unfortunately, they were not out that day. The main thing we were warned of was to not get flogged by their tail.


36 posted on 02/08/2012 11:54:01 AM PST by HollyB
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To: fish hawk

.
LOL!

.


37 posted on 02/08/2012 11:54:12 AM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: ml/nj

The “long period of time” theory crumbles with a trip to the basement of the Lincolin Memorial.
.


38 posted on 02/08/2012 12:01:25 PM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: blam
Six paintings of seals are at least 42,000 years old and are the only known artistic images created by Neanderthal man

However, the authenticity of this find came into question when one of the drawings appeared to depict a seal balancing a beach ball on its nose.

39 posted on 02/08/2012 12:05:01 PM PST by GreenHornet
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To: blam
  LASCAUX

shaman feeds the fire with angelica root and chant
'becomes animal spirit and shadowdances the moon
unnatural noises escape into an otherwise quiet night
the clan is caught in his web of magic song
they enter the trance of his altered state
the morning star showers them with healing
as they stomp evil spirits back into the dark earth
to the east the dawn sun lights the sky with slant
as once again they become mystic animals 
painted on the walls of damp caves. 

                  fish hawk

40 posted on 02/08/2012 12:08:58 PM PST by fish hawk (Isa. 42:12 Let them give glory unto the Lord and declare his praise in the islands. (Maui))
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To: blam
Seals?
41 posted on 02/08/2012 12:11:47 PM PST by Sloth (If a tax break counts as "spending" then every time I don't rob a bank should be a "deposit.")
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To: All


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42 posted on 02/08/2012 12:15:18 PM PST by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: All


Just A Reminder
Please Don't Forget
To Donate To FR
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Sponsoring FReepers are contributing
$10 Each time a New Monthly Donor signs up!
Get more bang for your FR buck!
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43 posted on 02/08/2012 12:15:36 PM PST by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: editor-surveyor

Well, obviously, if the basement of the Lincoln Memorial looks like a cave that has been dated to 3.8 billion trillion years old, the Lincoln Memorial must be that old as well...


44 posted on 02/08/2012 12:16:09 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Sloth

Careful, if the dept of interior makes the connection,
chicken fried steaks will be on the endangered species list.


45 posted on 02/08/2012 12:17:53 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: ml/nj
This means that whatever was painted on the outside, supposedly long ago, should be covered up now by more CaCO3 deposited in the interim. No?

Good thinking, but not necessarily so. Caves go through dry and wet periods, and when dry, there is no active accretion of speleothems. You are right that evaporating water deposits the Calcium Carbonate (or calcium sulphate, in some cases) which forms the stalagmites, stalactites, columns and other formations within the cave, but without water movement, there is no deposition.

I have been in dry caves, wet ones, and some which were dry in one part and wet in other places. So it is possible that the drawings could survive for a long period of time, just as signatures or markings on the wall of a cave do.

46 posted on 02/08/2012 12:20:48 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: ml/nj; BigBobber
On second look, yes, there is water on the speleothem tips nearby and on the rock behind the formation.

The 'soda straw' developing on the end of the one stalactite indicates a new period of growth and possibly previous breakage, and I have seen such (about that size) in archways of limestone buildings about 100 years old in Virginia. While it would make one suspicious, it doesn't mean that the new growth isn't a recent development.

It could be genuine, it might be a publicity stunt.

47 posted on 02/08/2012 12:27:23 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: blam

Are these stalagmites and stalagtite not active anymore seems funny to me they would be found on one of those instead of a wall.


48 posted on 02/08/2012 12:27:35 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK (Any man may make a mistake ; none but a fool will persist in it . { Latin proverb })
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To: ml/nj
stalactites or stalagmites (I always forget which type hangs down.)

You will get several different reminders, G = ground = down.

But I find few forget that the top half of the human body does not contain the "mit", it does the other word choice equivalent.

49 posted on 02/08/2012 12:58:30 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: ml/nj

You can see that pigment from the drawings has been displaced downward, which suggests that the drawings have been there a long time.


50 posted on 02/08/2012 1:04:53 PM PST by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter)
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