Skip to comments.Chicago Cop Responds to Train Station DGU(Defensive Gun Use, IL)
Posted on 02/10/2012 6:45:18 AM PST by marktwain
An email from a TTAG reader who experienced a DGU at a Windy City train station has generated a lot of traffic and discussion. Heres a comment from a Chi-town cop:
Im glad that you were not harmed during your encounter on that L platform. Yes, CTA does have some very, very good video surveillance on their platforms, buses. Sad part is that if those 3 mutts had called the Police, we would have to check it (and you if still on the scene ) out. Dont believe the BS that having a firearm in a fanny pack is having it in a container (such as in a vehicle). Also if there are any rounds in that gun, magazine, chambered or any combo of both, that gun is loaded. Being a 26 yr. Chicago Police Officer, currently a Detective, Ive investigated, responded to more homicides, shootings, robberies than I could ever count. Although I am sympathetic to you (and other law abiding citizens) as to carrying concealed, I would have no option not to arrest . . .
First off instead of just thinking concealed think covertly concealed. The gun may be really hard to get at, but it may keep you out of jail for that one time someone spots it on you. Another thing, if you have to pull that gun, keep it at your side , barrel pointed down, until the last instant that you may have to shoot. If you did this in your encounter, this would lend credence to your version .vs their version that he pointed that gun at me.
As far as being arrested with a gun. You do have the right to remain silent, but remember that only leaves me with one version of what went on. Your version will come out during your felony trial. Once arrested, I would interview all parties involved, then contact the Cook County States Attorneys Felony Review Unit. They will ultimately make the decision of to charge you criminally with a felony (having only one side of a story presented, they will).
Next roll of the dice is what judge you will get at a bond hearing (you will sit in Cook Co. Jail until then). He may give you a $5000 or $500,000 bond, which you will have to come up with 10% cash to get out of County, or sit until your trial, which can be over a year down the road. If convicted, even though you may only get probation, you are now a felon. The FF job is gone. Believe me if I responded to your incident , and found out you were a FF on his way to work, I would do everything in my power (which I will not get into on a public blog) to keep you from an arrest.
But realize that some of these options may jeopardize my and my partners jobs. If you keep in your head that the ONLY time that gun comes out is when you HAVE to shoot, you may be fine. Not pulling it when you are apprehensive or scared. Again, your freedom and job will depend on #1 who the Police are that show up on the scene #2 Detectives investigating your incident #3 which Cook Co Asst. States Attny answers the phone #4 what judge is sitting on the bench the day of your bond hearing #5 what judge and / or jury is in that courtroom for your trial.
The gun laws are what they are in this State and I dont see them being voluntarily changed anytime soon. Just be smart, only do what you have to to defend yourself, and dont do something to prove a point. Believe me, myself and many other coppers are on your side, but can only do what the law allows us to.
A smart person points out evidence at the scene to support their version of events, then remains silent until they have a lawyer.
This sounds like my kind of policeman. I would bet that he’s save many an innocent from the joke that is our legal system....and sent others (who deserve it) into the pit of despair that is Chicago and its corruption.
Too bad that there not more cops like him, as common sense is in short supply. Sounds to me that he is not just smart but wise as well.
First, you will be charged. There is no reason on earth to share your story without benefit of counsel. The situation is over and time is no longer of the essence despite interrogation techniques to the contrary.
Second, any statement you make will tie you to one defense and permit the prosecution to work on breaking any part of that story.
Third, anything you give them is one less thing for them to prove, starting with the admission that it was your gun.
Finally, I was a criminal investigator for over 30 years. No matter how I personally feel, the prosecutor is going to use the statement of any defendant against them, not for them. Exercise your Fifth Amendment rights with the same conviction as you exercise your Second Amendment rights.
What a whiny b!tch.
FF=firefighter. The cop would go out of his way to give a break to a fellow unionized emergency-response person. This does not imply that he would give a break to the average private-sector citizen.
He’s a cop. He’s not your “friend”. Don’t EVER talk to the police. Give your name and let the donut munching, pensioner get his own evidence and “version” of the story. If you live-in Chicago , just realize that you’re screwed. Get a lawyer and prepare for losing a couple of years of your life for defending yourself.
I love the condescending tone and the “gee, I wish I could do more but I’m just a good little Nazi and have to follow orders, doncha know?”. So I’d HAVE to arrest you. Otherwise my pension and donut allowance will vanish and I might actually have to get a job and produce something. . Screw him.
Early in my career, a man fired a rifle as a warning to another man who was causing a problem. Because I, and most cops in the U.S. didn't really understand Miranda, I went ahead and read him his rights. He told me what happened, and I agreed that he didn't use the rifle in an unlawful manner. I wrote a report and that was the end of it.
Later in my career, when I was a detective and I DID UNDERSTAND Miranda, I worked a case where a convicted felon was in possession of firearms. I learned that he was open to search and seizure and I went to his house. He wasn't home. I explained why I was there to his wife, and I asked permission to search for the weapons. (For the record, I was very polite to her.) She let me in and showed me where the firearms were and I confiscated them. I wrote a crime report on a felon being in possession of a firearm.
The man called me and came to my office. I interviewed him without reading him his rights. When he was done I let him walk without arresting him.
At the preliminary the defense attorney raised the Miranda objection, and the judge initially held that the statement was given in violation of Miranda.
I gave the information to the Deputy DA that I had received in recent training that explained that if a person wasn't in custody that Miranda didn't apply. A week or so later we went back into court and had the preliminary hearing and the judge agreed that I was on point regarding the law.
The man was held to answer. I talked with the Deputy DA and asked that because of the entire circumstances that he not be sent to prison. The Deputy DA couldn't guarantee me that he would not go to prison. The case never came to trial and I think a deal was reached for additional felony probation.
In the Chicago case of the FF, the detective could have interviewed him without having to Mirandize him if he didn't place him under arrest. The FF must make the decision to either remain silent or tell the whole story. The story he gives to the Detective is the one he is going to tell in court if it gets that far. Now obviously, there is a whole library of what if's and woulda coulda shoulda as to whether or not the FF should tell his story and I can't possibly cover every possibility. Yes, it could go either way, release or arrest, and I can't predict either.
I have talked with Chicago firemen and there is a strong sense of loyalty between the Police and Fire Fighters in Chicago, and the cops would like to avoid arresting Fire Fighters if it's possible.
I like the way the Detective outlined the possibilities. As in any case where different people are involved, it's a roll of the dice as to who you encounter that determines your future.
Why does an ordinary law-abiding person who just defended himself against a violent attack deserve less consideration than a fire fighter who did the same thing?
Amazing that he has no option on the unconstitutional law but can ignore the Constitution.
They deserve the same consideration.
“There is nothing you can tell the cop at the time of the incident that would prevent you from being arrested.”
Not quite true in this case, since it was in Chicago. The cop himself acknowledges that when he says, if he had known it was a firefighter on his way to work, he would have done everything he could to prevent him from being arrested, even at the risk of his own job. That’s the way it works here. If you can tell the cop, for example, “My dad is a Chicago cop”, or “I work for Alderman XXXX”, etc, then that actually may prevent you from getting arrested in this fair town.
Because this is Sparta, and we are the helots.