Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

THE DAWN OF THE ENERGY AGE
South Coast Today/ Middleboro Gazette ^ | February 09, 2012 3:35 PM | Mark Belanger

Posted on 02/11/2012 8:31:52 AM PST by Kevmo


THE DAWN OF THE ENERGY AGE

February 09, 2012 3:35 PM

I'm sure that I've written things that you didn't agree with and probably thought were downright crazy. Well, strap yourself in, because I'm about to take crazy to a whole new level: Within five years, the number of gas customers for the Middleboro Gas & Electric Department will start to plummet. Within 10 to 15 years, there won't be a single customer remaining for either gas or electric. The year 2012 will be looked at by future historians as the dawn of a new age of man - The Energy Age. This will happen because of widespread adoption of a new power source that will provide heat, cooling and electricity for your house for less than $100 per year. It will produce no waste of any kind: No radiation, no greenhouse gases, not even ash. It will replace oil, gas, and coal power plants as well as solar panels and windmills.

The proof of this will come within one year or two at the most. If it doesn't come, you can all have a good laugh at my expense for being gullible. You won't find it discussed much in mainstream media - yet - and most prominent physicists will tell you it's impossible because you can't overcome the Coulomb Barrier without large amounts of energy. They're wrong. High-energy physicists will be slow to believe that their life's work and multi-million dollar fusion/fission reactors will become irrelevant by a device barely more complicated than an air conditioner.

LENR
This new power source is called one of LENR, LANR or even cold fusion. I'm partial to LENR - Low Energy Nuclear Reaction. Devices using this technology are simple: Powdered nickel mixed with pressurized hydrogen gas, a little heat, and some common substances to accelerate the reaction. The result is heat - a lot of it - that can be used to heat and cool houses, produce steam, and eventually run turbines that produce electricity. The physics behind it is not well understood - NASA scientists prefer the Widom-Larson theory, but you'd have to be a physicist to understand it. There seem to be several companies on the verge of delivering products based on this technology. Andrea Rossi's Leonardo Corp has the E-Cat - the Energy Catalyzer - and Defkalion is marketing their Hyperion reactor. Defkalion is offering to let independent parties study their device. Rossi's E-Cat has been demonstrated multiple times but has not been verified by independent scientists - he claims to be protecting his intellectual property and will let the products speak for themselves. The Rossi E-Cat is based on the work of scientist Sergio Focardi, whose work was based on an accidental discovery by Francesco Piantelli. This accidental discovery probably would have been overlooked if not for the work of Pons and Fleischman - who became laughingstocks over their claims of cold fusion in 1989.

It is without doubt that LENR is real. It is without doubt that NASA scientist Dr. Joseph Zawodny has submitted a patent application for a device that sounds exactly like Rossi's device. What is debatable is how it works and whether or not Rossi and others have a viable product - a question that will be answered soon. I believe they have.

The Death of the G&E
Rossi claims that he will be shipping residential E-Cat units within 12-18 months. He claims they will be a cube about 15 inches on each side with a reactor core the size of a pack of cigarettes and sell for just $500. It will heat your house and supply air conditioning via a heat pump and eventually include turbines for electrical generation. The fuel will come from a small canister that you will change every six months for about $14 - similar to changing a filter in your refrigerator. Once perfected, a small canister of fuel might power your house for decades. Rossi is working with National Instruments on the control systems, claims to be in discussions with Home Depot for distribution, and reportedly has submitted a working prototype to Underwriter's Laboratory to have the devices certified as safe for home use.

If this is all true - and I think it is - the world is going to change dramatically and immediately in almost every conceivable way. From a local perspective, within a very short period of time, there will be no need for our gas and electric utility. Maybe some people will keep the service connected for the rare instance when their units break down, but even that will end if there is any charge for it. Eventually the MG&E will collapse with revenues that are insufficient to support their overhead. Their life may be extended somewhat because power plants will also convert to LENR, which will drop the cost of commercial power generation drastically. In the end the G&E will be dissolved - forced into obsolescence by ultra cheap home power generation.

Global game changer
LENR will prove to be the most disruptive technology since Oook discovered fire. The entire geopolitical and economic foundation of the planet is going to be in upheaval as oil quickly goes from being the lifeblood of the world economy to something that is used in relatively small quantities to make plastics and other synthetic materials.

On September 22 of last year, NASA held an LENR forum that included presentations by several scientists including Dan Bushnell - Chief Scientist at NASA Langley Research Center and Dr. Joseph Zawodny. The summary slide of Zawodny's presentation included these points:
- A cheap, abundant, clean, scalable, portable source of energy will impact EVERYONE.

- Singular solution to peak oil, climate change, fresh water, and associated geopolitical instabilities.

- Drop-in replacement for traditional utility heat sources. Minimal impact to existing infrastructure
- Enables widely distributed generation. Homes and businesses generate what they need - on site.

- Enables whole new approaches to all of NASA's missions - we can affordably get off this rock!
LENR is real and it's coming fast. Or else I'm a crackpot. Or both.

mark.j.belanger@gmail.com
http://nemasket.net








TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: cmns; coldfusion; ecat; lenr
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120209/PUB04/202090421

The Cold Fusion Ping List

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles

--------------------------------------------------------------

http://ecatnews.com/?p=1144

1 posted on 02/11/2012 8:31:58 AM PST by Kevmo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: dangerdoc; citizen; Liberty1970; Red Badger; Wonder Warthog; PA Engineer; glock rocks; free_life; ..

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120209/PUB04/202090421

The Cold Fusion Ping List

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles


http://ecatnews.com/?p=1144


2 posted on 02/11/2012 8:33:19 AM PST by Kevmo (If you can define a man by the depravity of his enemies, Rick Santorum must be a noble soul indeed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

If it sounds too good to be true...


3 posted on 02/11/2012 8:42:38 AM PST by cerberus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

The Philosopher’s Stone.


4 posted on 02/11/2012 8:47:03 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

5 posted on 02/11/2012 8:52:53 AM PST by Erik Latranyi (When religions have to beg the gov't for a waiver, we are already under socialism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo
So, what do the Saudi's have to say?

Where will the liberals go to make up tax short falls?

6 posted on 02/11/2012 8:53:30 AM PST by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The meek shall not inherit the Earth)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

Lets say all this is true, the US fed would make such cheap power illegal because they could not get their campaign finance doantions from the (non) green energy sources and the people are not allowed to have any energy sources unless they cost too much and produce to little energy. And all EPA energy plants must burn the necessary food supplys (corn, etc.) needed by people worldwide in order to be acceptable for the citizens hating feds. Energy supplies such as nuclear or coal or oil plants that are cheaper and clean would not do and the scum of DC would make it illegal by shoving EPA rules and regs down our throats.
The government would not allow such a boon for mankind.


7 posted on 02/11/2012 9:03:06 AM PST by kindred (Jesus Christ is the Lord God and Messiah of Israel, a present help in time of trouble.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Erik Latranyi
"Abstract -- A method and a generator to produce energy from nuclear reactions between hydrogen and a metal, comprising the steps of a) production of a determined quantity of micro/nanometric clusters of a transition metal, b) bringing hydrogen into contact with said clusters and controlling its pressure and speed, preferably after applying vacuum cycles of at least 10-9 bar between 35 DEG and 500 DEG C for degassing the clusters; c) creating an active core for the reactions by heating the clusters up to a temperature that is higher than the Debye temperature TD of the metal, preferably a temperature close to a temperature at which a sliding of reticular planes occurs, in order to adsorb in the clusters the hydrogen as H- ions; d) triggering the reactions by a mechanical, thermal, ultrasonic, electric or magnetic impulse on the active core, causing the atoms of the metal to capture the hydrogen ions, with liberation of heat, preferably in the presence of a gradient of temperature on the active core; e)removing the heat maintaining the temperature above TD, preferably in the presence of a magnetic and/or electric field of predetermined intensity. The active core can comprise a sintered material of micro/nanometric clusters, or a clusters powder collected in a container, or a deposit of clusters onto a substrate of predetermined volume and shape, with at least 109 clusters per square centimetre of surface, obtainable by means of methods such as sputtering, spraying evaporation and condensation of metal, epitaxial deposition, by heating up to approaching the melting point and then slow cooling, such methods followed by quick cooling for freezing the cluster structure. "

Cold fusion is kool. Hope it works.

8 posted on 02/11/2012 9:04:45 AM PST by Paladin2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: cerberus

“If it sounds too good to be true...”

If it is true it won’t become a reality unless the big boys get their slice of the pie and the government gets to tax it. Otherwise it’s SWAT teams and dead dogs.


9 posted on 02/11/2012 9:13:03 AM PST by dljordan ("Tyranny, like Hell, is not easily conquered.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

I’m still waiting for a report from one independent customer saying “I’ve run my purchased cold-fusion rig for two weeks continuously and have gotten substantial amounts of excess energy out of it”.


10 posted on 02/11/2012 9:14:04 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kindred

“”The government would not allow such a boon for mankind.””

No problem they will just tax the hell out of it

My “Getting Off the Grid” Dream would be partially realized


11 posted on 02/11/2012 9:19:55 AM PST by underbyte (TEOTEWAKI)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo
This will happen because of widespread adoption of a new power source that will provide heat, cooling and electricity for your house for less than $100 per year.

Even if he's right, (And I do not cede that), he's wrong about the "$100 per year" part. That would never be allowed to happen.

12 posted on 02/11/2012 9:21:52 AM PST by Graybeard58 (Eccl 10 v. 19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PapaBear3625

I’ve run my purchased cold-fusion rig for two weeks continuously and have gotten substantial amounts of excess energy out of it-—————NOT.


13 posted on 02/11/2012 9:28:22 AM PST by House Atreides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

Run a modest low voltage and amperage home, maybe.

I require 220V, 30A circuits x five.

Real industry runs on 480V 100A, or greater, times the number of machines in use.

Commercial power production is not ending.


14 posted on 02/11/2012 9:29:27 AM PST by Loyal Sedition
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo
As you say, people have been "working" with "cold fusion" since 1989, has anyone generated even 1 watt of electrical power with the subject technology? Warm water is a long way from steam and so far that's about all you get. Forget about the "Coulomb Barrier", there is another universal law; you get nothing for nothing, or put another way, there is no free lunch. There never has been, there never will be, and wishing won't make it so.

Cold fusion reminds me of the joke where the two scientists (two guys wearing white lab coats...) are discussing a chalkboard filled with abstract mathematical symbols. One scientist is pointing to an equation he doesn't quite grasp and the other scientist explains "at this point a miracle occurs."

Maybe in some "alternate universe" there exist "white holes" which connect to the black holes in our universe. From their point of view they see an incoming flux of energy with no apparent source and they have figured out a way to tap into that to utilize the "free power" but that's not happening in our little corner of the cosmos.

Regards,
GtG

15 posted on 02/11/2012 9:34:48 AM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

WoW! How can I too get in on the grounded flooring of this outstooding, once-in-a-lifer-time, not-to-be-myssed, ACME investment oppertoonity?

This will be a great way to use the excess funds I should be receiving... any day now... from that nice Nigerian investerment bancur I sent my bank account numbur to last week.


16 posted on 02/11/2012 9:39:44 AM PST by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: underbyte
My “Getting Off the Grid” Dream would be partially realized

A device like this would make it feasible for many more people to relo to Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Alaska, etc.


17 posted on 02/11/2012 9:55:58 AM PST by Iron Munro ("Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight he'll just kill you." John Steinbeck)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Erik Latranyi

So I wonder why WE are skeptical?

This is such a farce.


18 posted on 02/11/2012 10:02:13 AM PST by Sequoyah101 (Half the people are below average.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: All

Not only that, but I get 200+ mpg from a simple device that I installed on my carburetor. For only $29.95 (plus S&H) you can have one too!


19 posted on 02/11/2012 10:02:38 AM PST by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

It sounds like the glo-bull warming “scientists” have found a new sideline!


20 posted on 02/11/2012 10:07:30 AM PST by Noob1999 (Loose Lips, Sink Ships)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo
Andrea Rossi's Leonardo Corp has the E-Cat ...

Just another regurgitation of the Rossi scam copy and pasted by Kevmo. Same vomit, different day.

21 posted on 02/11/2012 10:10:08 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rockrr

Add my magnets around the gas line and wear this special bracelet and you’ll get 300 mpg unless the black helicopters show up.


22 posted on 02/11/2012 10:20:58 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Gandalf_The_Gray

Your ignorance is showing. Go here and wise up:

http://www.lenr-canr.org/LibFrame1.html


23 posted on 02/11/2012 11:07:12 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

Kind of a strange article

10 parts hyperbole - zero parts science.


24 posted on 02/11/2012 12:52:00 PM PST by Eldon Tyrell (question,.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

Back in the 1950s, there were articles stating that nuclear energy would be so cheap that we wouldn’t need to meter electricity any more, and our power could be generated by the nuclear potential found in a glass of water.

Back in the 2010s, there were articles stating that wind and solar power would give us a near-limitless and potentially pollution-free source of energy that would allow each homeowner to work “off the grid” and bring the cost of energy down to nearly nothing.

I’m detecting a pattern of wish fulfillment here. Hey, maybe it’s true. I’ll order one from Amazon. Until then, though, I’m remaining skeptical.


25 posted on 02/11/2012 1:29:32 PM PST by redpoll
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gandalf_The_Gray
As you say, people have been "working" with "cold fusion" since 1989, has anyone generated even 1 watt of electrical power with the subject technology?
Earlier this week, Kevmo posted THIS article, commenting on a public demonstration of a cold fusion reactor at MIT. The best run produced 0.08 Watts for about 102 minutes.

CERN is also holding a conference about LENR (in March, I believe). They made a point of saying that coffee and tea would be served afterwards. Using the above device as an example, if they could store the heat it generated perfectly, it would take about 10 days to produce enough energy to brew a cup of tea. So, at this time, LENR is not yet ready to make a cup of tea.

The part I find most amazing is that the Rossi fan boys who believe that Rossi is really generating 10,000W of power with his gadget are, nevertheless, getting all excited about Swartz generating 0.08W. Either Swartz's demonstration is totally trivial, or Rossi's is totally fraudulent.

26 posted on 02/11/2012 2:26:34 PM PST by Johnny B.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

Would have better luck with a magnifying glass.


27 posted on 02/11/2012 2:49:39 PM PST by Razzz42
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kindred

the scum of DC would make it illegal by shoving EPA rules and regs down our throats.
***They can’t do anything about the guys developing cold fusion in other countries.


28 posted on 02/11/2012 5:44:13 PM PST by Kevmo (If you can define a man by the depravity of his enemies, Rick Santorum must be a noble soul indeed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Gandalf_The_Gray

If LENR is so far off, why is NASA filing a patent for this technology? You don’t see them doing that for Polywater or Zero Point Energy.


29 posted on 02/11/2012 6:00:11 PM PST by Kevmo (If you can define a man by the depravity of his enemies, Rick Santorum must be a noble soul indeed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Johnny B.
The part I find most amazing is that the Rossi fan boys who believe that Rossi is really generating 10,000W of power with his gadget are, nevertheless, getting all excited about Swartz generating 0.08W. Either Swartz's demonstration is totally trivial, or Rossi's is totally fraudulent.

I have a BS in mechanical engineering and an associate in internal combustion engine design. The latter featured more thermodynamics, chemistry (fuels & lubricants), heat transfer than what was required for the BSME. That is I got to do calorimetry studies to measure the heating value of various fuels.

It is quite awhile since I actually did one of those studies but it still sticks in mind all of the factors that need to be recognized and accounted for when measuring heating values. The procedure required a closed "bomb" which contained the carefully weighed fuel sample along with an enough oxidizer to permit full combustion. Before closing the bomb, a small piece of nicrome wire was connected between two terminals in the wall of the bomb container to allow ignition of the sample. The assembled bomb was then placed in a large cylindrical tank of of water which had been weighed as the cylinder was filled. Temperature probes were then placed to measure both water and ambient air temperature. A stirring apparatus was used to induce a slow circulation of the water bath. Temperatures were observed until the water bath with the bomb achieved observed room temperature for a specified period (10 minutes typical). After achieving equilibrium, the circuit to the nicrome igniter was closed and periodic observations (every 15 sec. typical) of both water and air temperature commenced. These observations continued until the water temperature returned to room temperature.

Knowing the weight of the water in the bath and the sample weight you then were required to calculate the heating value of the sample fuel. The actual calculation required you to make allowances for the heat input from the igniter wire and from the mechanical work performed by the stirring apparatus. To arrive at the correction factors required a separate calorimeter runs w/o a fuel sample to measure the input from the igniter and another run to observe any correction needed for stirring.

Oops, I almost forgot! After the actual calorimeter run w/ fuel sample achieved equilibrium w/ room temp the bomb was removed from the water bath and carefully opened. The residual ash was removed and carefully weighed. The ash sample was then placed in a desiccator and thoroughly dried and then weighed again. Knowing the weight of the sample (fuel & oxidizer) before combustion and the wet ash weight after allows you to calculate the weight of the CO2 produced. Knowing the dry weight allows you to calculate the amount of water vapor produced by combustion. The last correction factor is to calculate the heat released by the condensation of the water vapor into liquid water, knowing that the heat of vaporization of water is 540 Calories/gram.

That is how small quantities of heat are measured. Careful attention to experimental design, actively looking for procedures which could introduce error, performing calibration runs to observe any such errors and either reduce them to zero or identify them so that corrections may be applied to the experimental values. I would venture that the CERN people are familiar with all of this, my doubts are that the people peddling these devices are not so scrupulous.

Regards,
GtG

PS Last time I did one of these experiments JFK was shot during the equilibrium phase of the experiment (no kidding).

30 posted on 02/11/2012 6:03:59 PM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Moonman62

This will be my standard post to moonboy that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. But if it offends you to the point that you get it removed like my prior innocuous citation then I’ll have to come up with some other ‘ignore button’ post.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62

This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.

55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies | Report Abuse]


31 posted on 02/11/2012 6:07:00 PM PST by Kevmo (If you can define a man by the depravity of his enemies, Rick Santorum must be a noble soul indeed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo
If LENR is so far off, why is NASA filing a patent for this technology? You don’t see them doing that for Polywater or Zero Point Energy.

I have no idea why NASA does anything, I can say that big business has been know to blanket whole areas of science with "patent applications" to "sew up" the areas for later development or to block others from doing so. Everything from every possible gear-set arrangement for automatic transmissions (auto industry) to potential drug improvements (pharmacutal industry) has been done in the past and "new developments" have been refiled to extend the patent protection so as to slow down competitive developments. I am an old phart and still have trouble w/ Newtonian Physics, Quantum Theory is mumbo jumbo has far as I can see but I do respect the laws of Thermodynamics because they have withstood the test of time with nothing added or deleted.

My question for you is if low energy nuclear reactions are indeed possible, just what is it that is holding the entire universe together. Why doesn't everything just blink out in a flash of unbound energy in a massive chain reaction? If I recall that was a real concern back during the Manhattan project.

Regards,
GtG

PS I wouldn't sell my utility stocks just yet...

32 posted on 02/11/2012 6:36:28 PM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Gandalf_The_Gray

“patent applications” to “sew up” the areas for later development or to block others from doing so.
***There’s no reason to do that if it’s a chimera.

My question for you is if low energy nuclear reactions are indeed possible, just what is it that is holding the entire universe together. Why doesn’t everything just blink out in a flash of unbound energy in a massive chain reaction?
***I don’t see what LENR has to do with this level of cosmology.


33 posted on 02/11/2012 6:52:26 PM PST by Kevmo (If you can define a man by the depravity of his enemies, Rick Santorum must be a noble soul indeed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Gandalf_The_Gray
Prolly off topic, but your post reminded me of this:



34 posted on 02/11/2012 7:25:51 PM PST by tomkat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Gandalf_The_Gray
That is how small quantities of heat are measured. Careful attention to experimental design, actively looking for procedures which could introduce error, performing calibration runs to observe any such errors and either reduce them to zero or identify them so that corrections may be applied to the experimental values. I would venture that the CERN people are familiar with all of this, my doubts are that the people peddling these devices are not so scrupulous.

That could explain why all of cold fusion's excess heat anomalies remain unexplained and inconsistent after all these years. They are measurement errors.

35 posted on 02/11/2012 7:34:10 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: LoneRangerMassachusetts

Powdered nickel mixed with pressurized hydrogen gas

95% of Worlds Nickle comes from either Canada or Russia.

There is one source in Montana.


36 posted on 02/11/2012 8:49:12 PM PST by CPT Clay (Pick up your weapon and follow me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Moonman62

I believe there was a team that reported just last month at a LENR conference that they found that a meter they were using didn’t produce accurate results for the “spikey” data they had, and when they switched to an accurate measuring device (oscilloscope) their “excess power” readings disappeared.


37 posted on 02/11/2012 9:47:37 PM PST by Johnny B.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Gandalf_The_Gray
"That is how small quantities of heat are measured. Careful attention to experimental design, actively looking for procedures which could introduce error, performing calibration runs to observe any such errors and either reduce them to zero or identify them so that corrections may be applied to the experimental values. I would venture that the CERN people are familiar with all of this, my doubts are that the people peddling these devices are not so scrupulous."

MOST of the people doing research in LENR are scientists of impeccable credentials. Perhaps you should actually READ some of the published papers on their calorimetry and results. Lots of links to papers in the Library Section at LENR-CANR.org, including many with full explanations of the calorimetries used.

38 posted on 02/12/2012 5:14:06 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Gandalf_The_Gray

“Excess powers in the range of 5-8 W with 170% efficiency were reported for the glow discharge experiments.”

1) http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/NagelDJscientific.pdf

“The registered meanings of Excess Heat power obtained in the experiments amounted to 120 – 170 W with Heat Efficiency (the ratio between output heat power and the input electrical power) 200 – 340 % in HVEC experiments.”

“The most unusual feature for the Pd-B electrode was the observation of excess power and positive feedback at a very early stage of the experiment (Day 3) at a low current density (48 mA/cm2) and at a low cell temperature (29 °C).[1] This Pd-B experiment ran 68 days with excess power production often exceeding 400 mW. The cell was driven to boiling on Day 68 with the excess power exceeding 9 watts.”

2) http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Srinivasaniccfthinte.pdf

Most recent survey of the field is probably McKubre’s talk in 3) on page xv.

3) http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/ViolanteVproceeding.pdf

4) http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/ViolanteVproceedinga.pdf


39 posted on 02/12/2012 5:22:03 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog; Kevmo
“Excess powers in the range of 5-8 W with 170% efficiency were reported for the glow discharge experiments.”

“The registered meanings of Excess Heat power obtained in the experiments amounted to 120 – 170 W with Heat Efficiency (the ratio between output heat power and the input electrical power) 200 – 340 % in HVEC experiments.”

That is significant! (previous posts were reporting 0.08 W continuous, which suggests measurement error). I was going to make a comment about a COP exceeding one when I had a flash back. The laws of Thermodynamics stipulate that the COP of a process cannot exceed 1 (the part that is hardly ever mentioned is coming up!) barring the presence of nuclear processes.

Since the experiment ran at a measured 170% thermal efficiency I would take that as an iron clad guarantee that "nuclear processes" were, in fact, providing the excess energy. Is there any other artifact generated besides the thermal energy released? Electromagnetic waves or particles of any sort? It does seem rather odd that these reactions release nothing but heat w/ no discernible byproducts.

Nuclear power, safe as Churches, who would have thought...

Regards,
GtG

40 posted on 02/12/2012 6:27:00 PM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Gandalf_The_Gray
"(previous posts were reporting 0.08 W continuous, which suggests measurement error)."

Not really. If you actually check the full writeup, the COP for the 80 mw is 10X, and the sensitivity of the calorimeter is also given. Although small, the excess heat is WELL above the limit of detection of the calorimetry.

"Since the experiment ran at a measured 170% thermal efficiency I would take that as an iron clad guarantee that "nuclear processes" were, in fact, providing the excess energy. Is there any other artifact generated besides the thermal energy released? Electromagnetic waves or particles of any sort? It does seem rather odd that these reactions release nothing but heat w/ no discernible byproducts."

There are MANY CF experiments that have given similar excess heat ratios, and virtually all the necessary nuclear signatures have been seen (formation of He4 (and He3!), tritium, x- and gamma rays, and even the occasional stray neutron), but always at many orders of magnitude lower than can account for the excess heat.

41 posted on 02/12/2012 8:04:48 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog
virtually all the necessary nuclear signatures have been seen (formation of He4 (and He3!), tritium, x- and gamma rays, and even the occasional stray neutron), but always at many orders of magnitude lower than can account for the excess heat.

Now that's really interesting! I would expect a neutron flux directly proportional to the excess heat output... The "high temperature" fusion experiments favor using the neutron flux as the path to recovering energy from the reactor as any attempt to process the plasma itself would necessarily quench the fusion reaction.

You and Kevmo have been most helpful in providing a "reading list" of suggested sources on LENR background. Thanks to both of you and if I may ask a favor, could you point me to information that addresses the dearth of "nuclear signatures"? It still seems remarkable to me that the world has found a potential energy source with no appreciable down side.

Regards,
GtG

PS Helium-3 on tap? Might just save us a trip or two to the moon!

42 posted on 02/13/2012 11:45:05 AM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Gandalf_The_Gray
"I would expect a neutron flux directly proportional to the excess heat output... The "high temperature" fusion experiments favor using the neutron flux as the path to recovering energy from the reactor as any attempt to process the plasma itself would necessarily quench the fusion reaction."

That is the main "sticking point" for the "hot" physicists. They expect neutrons and see almost (or) none. And the "maxiumum neutron pathway" is only preferred in Tokamaks. Bussard's polywell may be able to convert directly from p-B. (And that's a whole other story, which I'm also following).

"Thanks to both of you and if I may ask a favor, could you point me to information that addresses the dearth of "nuclear signatures"? It still seems remarkable to me that the world has found a potential energy source with no appreciable down side."

You can't beat the "Library" section of LENR-CANR.org. If you sort by "Categories", you'll get "Experiment, particle", which, I think, is precisely what you're looking for.

""Helium-3 on tap? Might just save us a trip or two to the moon!"

There are some sub-categories of CF research that are apparently being VERY CAREFULLY avoided (like what happens when you use mixtures of H and D). An easy route to tritium?? He3?? I suspect that the military is or has looked at this....or darned well should be.

43 posted on 02/13/2012 1:43:53 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson