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Deputy Says He Shot 'Irrational' Marine to Protect Kids in Car
Camp Pendleton Patch ^ | February 10, 2012 | Roy Rivenburg

Posted on 02/11/2012 10:25:42 AM PST by brityank

Deputy Says He Shot 'Irrational' Marine to Protect Kids in Car

15-year veteran of Sheriff's Department says Sgt. Manny Loggins was about to drive away, so he opened fire to prevent a perceived danger to Loggins' daughters. One other deputy was nearby at the time.

Sgt. Manny L. Loggins & fellow student The deputy who shot and killed an unarmed Marine sergeant after a predawn traffic stop said the Marine was acting so "irrationally" that it seemed dangerous to let him drive away with his two daughters, an official said Friday.

So when the Marine -- later identified as Sgt. Manny Loggins Jr. of Camp Pendleton -- climbed back into his GMC Yukon and turned the ignition, the deputy opened fire, according to Jim Amormino, a spokesman for the Orange County Sheriff's Department.

Amormino stressed that he was merely relaying statements made by the deputy to investigators and "not defending" what happened.

"This was a very tragic event, we all feel bad for the family," Amormino said.

The deputy, a 15-year veteran, told investigators he was parked at San Clemente High School writing reports when he spotted Loggins driving "at a high rate of speed" before turning into the lot and crashing into a gate near the football field.

The deputy pulled up behind Loggins and radioed for backup. It was about 4:40 a.m. Tuesday.

Loggins, 31, stepped out of the Yukon and walked off into the darkness toward the football field, ignoring a series of commands made by the deputy. His two daughters, ages 9 and 14, remained in the vehicle.

Other deputies soon arrived and formed a perimeter around the back end of the football field in case Loggins was trying to flee, Amormino said. Because it was dark, nobody could see where Loggins was.

"About five minutes later, Loggins walked back toward the Yukon," Amormino said.

The deputy issued "a new set of commands" which Loggins again didn't follow, Amormino said.

"Due to Loggins' failure to follow the commands and his irrational behavior, including statements he made, the deputy had a deep concern for the safety of the children," Amormino said. "In the deputy's mind, it was unsafe for [Loggins] to drive away with the girls."

Amormino said he couldn't disclose what the alleged "irrational" behaviors or statements entailed, but said Loggins didn't appear to be intoxicated.

When Loggins got back into the Yukon and either started the engine or began trying to drive away, the deputy opened fire, shooting Loggins through the driver side window, which shattered. (The girls were in the back seat and not injured.)

Amormino acknowledged that this version of events differs from an earlier account released by the Sheriff's Department, in which the deputy reportedly opened fire because he feared for his own life.

"The real threat was for the lives of the children," Amormino said Friday. In a case like this, "some information becomes immediately available and some takes longer to get because witnesses have to be interviewed," he noted.

Amormino said this account came from the deputy who fired the shots. Another deputy was nearby, but "I don't know what he saw," Amormino said.

Loggins' daughters were also interviewed by investigators, but Amormino said he didn't know what they said or if their story lined up with the deputy's.

"Whatever the truth is will come out," Amormino said, noting that "a complete and thorough investigation" would be conducted by the Orange County District Attorney's office, which investigates all officer-involved shootings.

Results of the autopsy on Loggins probably won't be made public for a few weeks, after toxicology tests are finished and the sheriff reviews the findings, he said.

Loggins' friends and colleagues have questioned official accounts of what happened, describing the Illinois native as a kind and faith-filled Christian family man who would never disobey authorities or jeopardize the safety of his daughters.



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: banglist; donutwatch; loggins; mannyloggins; manuelloggins; marine; ocsd; orangecounty; sgtloggins
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To: dragnet2
"If I were this marine's family, I'd hire the best attorney possible, and they probably already have. "

I'm fairly certain that MANY lawyers are lined up to take this case, some likely pro bono.

51 posted on 02/11/2012 11:34:15 AM PST by matthew fuller (Obama has definitely earned a second term- 99 years in Leavenworth USP.)
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To: brityank

I say take their guns away and put 5 of the Marine’s buddies up against the pig and 10 or 20 of his buddies (who always stick together and cover each other’s asses) and settle this.


52 posted on 02/11/2012 11:36:16 AM PST by Slump Tester (What if I'm pregnant Teddy? Errr-ahh -Calm down Mary Jo, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it)
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To: brityank

Couldn’t he have just shot out the tires?


53 posted on 02/11/2012 11:36:50 AM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: matthew fuller

Well, when OCSD throws out raw meat, they’d better expect flies to land on it.


54 posted on 02/11/2012 11:37:43 AM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: brityank

Too many trigger happy fvkin’ cops!!!!

They ere ONLY supposed to use deadly force to defend themselves or another!

Azzhats with badges!


55 posted on 02/11/2012 11:52:51 AM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: Slump Tester

5 marines vs 20 cops? that’s not fair, better make it 2 marines.


56 posted on 02/11/2012 11:54:12 AM PST by Bulwyf
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To: brityank
"Due to Loggins' failure to follow the commands and his irrational behavior, including statements he made, the deputy had a deep concern for the safety of the children,"

...and so he shot their dad in the same vehicle the children were in. I'm sure those children really appreciate this deputy's concern. Why didn't the deputy prevent this guy from walking (not running) back to his car in the first place?
57 posted on 02/11/2012 12:07:02 PM PST by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: brityank

Until all of these kinds of “officers” are either dead, or in life lockup, all children are in danger, along with their parents.


58 posted on 02/11/2012 12:07:27 PM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: microgood

They must have that Minority Report thing perfected.


59 posted on 02/11/2012 12:17:32 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: brityank

I’ll play detective. The cop was alseep. The marine pulled into the lot to take a whiz, hit the gate, got out, went into field to relieve himself. Cop hears crash and wakes up. He drives over to investigate, sees a black man coming out of the field and returning to his car. He tells him to stop. Maybe the marine doesn’t know he’s a cop or just doesn’t doesn’t listen, gets in the car to drive away and groggy cop shoots him. I’m betting the marine was dead before the cop claimed he was stopping him for hit and run and child endangerment.


60 posted on 02/11/2012 12:26:49 PM PST by Krankor (It's time you started thinking inside your head, that you should you stand up and fight.)
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To: dragnet2; All

More info from SD-U/T: Marine shot by deputy in San Clemente ID'd

Still no info from daughters, or whether the lights and siren were activated.

61 posted on 02/11/2012 12:28:05 PM PST by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: Krankor; dragnet2
I’ll play detective. The cop was alseep. The marine pulled into the lot to take a whiz, hit the gate, got out, went into field to relieve himself. Cop hears crash and wakes up. He drives over to investigate, sees a black man coming out of the field and returning to his car. He tells him to stop. Maybe the marine doesn’t know he’s a cop or just doesn’t doesn’t listen, gets in the car to drive away and groggy cop shoots him. I’m betting the marine was dead before the cop claimed he was stopping him for hit and run and child endangerment.

I do not disagree. Just the statement he fired into the Yukon with no regard to the danger he placed the children in tells me this stinks to high heaven.

62 posted on 02/11/2012 12:33:47 PM PST by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: brityank

Or it’s possible the marine was just pulling in the lot to turn around and he hit the gate. He got out to look at the damage, suddenly a car pulls up, a guy jumps out, tells him not to move, the marine gets in the car to get the heck out of there and protect his kids, cop shoots him, then sees the kids in the backseat and makes up the child endangerment story. I’m guessing the cop was taking 40 winks when he heard the crash and he drove over to investigate. Of course, it’s also possible the marine was having some kind of mental episode


63 posted on 02/11/2012 12:42:19 PM PST by Krankor (It's time you started thinking inside your head, that you should you stand up and fight.)
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To: brityank

Sounds like the black Marine shot by the white cop was a societal success. The black community will not riot.


64 posted on 02/11/2012 12:44:24 PM PST by Rebelbase
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To: dragnet2

I didn’t catch the part where the deputy drew his gun and ordered the man out of the truck. When did the deputy decide to draw his gun?


65 posted on 02/11/2012 12:47:33 PM PST by peeps36 (America is being destroyed by filthy traitors in the political establishment)
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To: brityank

Don’t police carry batons and tasers anymore?


66 posted on 02/11/2012 12:48:19 PM PST by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The meek shall not inherit the Earth)
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To: brityank

“He said the deputy radioed for backup at some point, then something happened that prompted the deputy to open fire.”

Thanks for that very informative news article - those journalist sure can sniff out the details.


67 posted on 02/11/2012 12:56:11 PM PST by 21twelve
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To: Krankor; dragnet2; smokingfrog; JaguarXKE; Jack Hydrazine; Bob; TigersEye; RedMDer; Altariel; ...

VIDEO and TV News Report

KABC-7 | Suspect shot by OC deputy was US Marine

They have a 2:30min. report showing the Yukon being trucked out in the morning. There is NO DAMAGE to the front end from a 'collision' with a gate or fence.

68 posted on 02/11/2012 12:56:30 PM PST by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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69 posted on 02/11/2012 12:57:07 PM PST by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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To: sport

The group I thought we’d find here are the pro-CPS folks, who would argue that anything is justifiable if you think kids are at risk.


70 posted on 02/11/2012 12:58:24 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Krankor; dragnet2; smokingfrog; JaguarXKE; Jack Hydrazine; Bob; TigersEye; RedMDer; Altariel
Might help to give the link:
71 posted on 02/11/2012 1:00:39 PM PST by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: All
Loggins was from Joliet, Ill., and joined the Marines in 1998. He had a reputation as being a deeply religious (Christian) man who put a premium on his family and his work.

Aaron Banks, 28, who served with Loggins for a year in Hawaii, described him as a "poster boy" for the Marines.

"He was everything I wanted to be as far as a Marine and a person," Banks, of South El Monte, said. "He basically schooled me up."

He said he and his colleagues are confused by the shooting. "We're all upset," he said.

Sgt. James Chavis, 28, who also served with Loggins in Hawaii, said he was equally surprised.

"Manny was not one of those people who disobeyed commands," he said.

72 posted on 02/11/2012 1:01:00 PM PST by Riodacat (And when all is said and done, there'll be a hell of a lot more said than done......)
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To: elvis-lives

Well, I would like to hear his side of the story before we assume that everything the officer said was true.

oh wait, he’s dead, so I guess we won’t be getting HIS statement now....


73 posted on 02/11/2012 1:01:58 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: brityank; dragnet2; All

Looked again - there IS DAMAGE to the left front headlight, and blue paint transfer on the lower left bumper. Loggins likely got out to see what he’d hit.


74 posted on 02/11/2012 1:07:09 PM PST by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: brityank; elvis-lives
They have a 2:30min. report showing the Yukon being trucked out in the morning. There is NO DAMAGE to the front end from a 'collision' with a gate or fence.

Remember what I mentioned up thread?

crashing into a gate with his two daughters

Even that version changed. Initially, it was, "He crashed THROUGH a gate. Now it's "into".

Now there is no obvious damage?

75 posted on 02/11/2012 1:12:19 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: brityank
Their original version changed. Initially, it was, "He crashed THROUGH a gate. Now it's "into".

The damage you are seeing is extremely minor, and what one would expect would happen in a minor parking lot bump/ incident.

76 posted on 02/11/2012 1:18:48 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: brityank
Note the drivers side window is blown out.

Clearly the deputy was not standing in front of the marines vehicle, bit was standing on the drivers side door when the marine was shot to death.

77 posted on 02/11/2012 1:24:43 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: elvis-lives
But this guy driiving at a high rate of speed, crashing into a gate with his two daughters strapped in the back seat at 4:40 in the morning and refusing to obey legitimate commands of a law enforcement officer isn’t making you curious?

Is the following your comment at the The Camp Pendleton Patch?

____________________________________________________

Elvis
4 hours ago

Yeah, no weapon a 3500 lb car couldn't possibly be a weapon, huh? The fact that the child was in the back proves the Marine had no regard for anybody's safety. If the Marine will gravely endanger his own daughter, do you really think he would take a second thought about taking out a bunch of people?

Police officers have a tough job that takes split second decisions. They don't decide whether or not somebody wants a bag or not. Lives hang in the balance. You want justice? Then support the decision to take potentially take a life to save many.

This I am sure was not and has not been easy for the deputy. He has to not only live with his decision, but listen to all of you people call him out. When you go through you day today and the toughest question you ask yourself is blue cheese or Italian. Think about how hard a life changing decision that is.

78 posted on 02/11/2012 1:25:29 PM PST by Ken H (Austerity is the irresistible force. Entitlements are the immovable object.)
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To: Ken H; elvis-lives
Good find. It appears elvis, if this is the same elvis, is totally ignoring that fact that never once did OCSD alleged the marine was attempting to run over the deputy.

In fact, when the marine was shot to death, the deputy shot straight through the drivers side window.

In fact the Sheriff's original version of events alleged the deputy feared for his life.

The new version is the deputy feared for the kid's lives.

OCSD bull sh** is up to the rooftops here.

79 posted on 02/11/2012 1:32:52 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: brityank

Well, they say everything is on the dashcam tape, so we’ll see. You would think if the whole thing was clear cut, they’d release the tape to alleviate any possible racial tensions. Then again, perhaps there’s some kind of legal procedure that has to be followed before they can release it. By the same token, if it was clear cut, I don’t know why the spokesman wouldn’t mention the dashcam tape. Instead, he seems to be concentrating on the officer’s “perceived threat”. I’m still bothered by the fact the cop was in the lot “writing reports”. If you’re allowed to do that while on patrol, I’m sure the cop would have to call it in- I know Reed and Malloy would.


80 posted on 02/11/2012 1:33:59 PM PST by Krankor (It's time you started thinking inside your head, that you should you stand up and fight.)
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To: TomGuy

“Since the marine was apparently unarmed, did the officer(s) try to restrain him”

Trying to restrain a Marine is a quick way to get your arm snapped;)


81 posted on 02/11/2012 1:37:34 PM PST by Frank_2001
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To: All

These are the same cops that we expect to stand with the citizens when the gun confiscations begin?

Yeah, right! They will fear for their safety and gun us down in big bleeding numbers.


82 posted on 02/11/2012 1:40:23 PM PST by 11Bush
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To: brityank

Cops shoot first now, and that is just wrong. I’m sorry, I don’t care what the training manual says, cops should take necessary risks to protect life. They require it of citizens, it should be demanded of authorities. Inappropriate use of force is borderline murder, and case after case proves that the policing paradigm is wrongheaded and evil.


83 posted on 02/11/2012 1:42:28 PM PST by HMS Surprise (Chris Christie can still go to hell.)
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To: Krankor
A former commanding officer said Loggins routinely went to the school during the early morning with his daughters to walk the track and read the Bible.

So was the gate usually open, and this time it wasn't?
He's not paying attention and drives into the gate?

I'm sure if the marine had made any threatening statements to the cops or toward his girls, we'd know about it.

84 posted on 02/11/2012 2:13:40 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: brityank
Here's something very odd. According to this news report, the marine walked regularly early in the morning with his kids at this high school track. Is it possible the cop was waiting for him?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2012/02/10/state/n162739S25.DTL
85 posted on 02/11/2012 2:17:25 PM PST by Krankor (It's time you started thinking inside your head, that you should you stand up and fight.)
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To: Krankor

Every profession has a distribution of competence. There are some bad, most average and some good. It sounds like this cop was on the bad end (extremely bad end) of the spectrum. Murdering a Marine in front of his kids because he was afraid for the kids???? What kind of total BS is that?! RIP Marine.


86 posted on 02/11/2012 2:20:31 PM PST by hal ogen (1st Amendment or Reeducation Camp?)
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To: smokingfrog

Ha! While you were posting, I was writing the same thing. Now I’m really suspicious. Did someone complain about the black man using the track early in the morning? Was he told he couldn’t be there? Did the cop have an earlier run in with the marine? Was the cop waiting for him? I always thought the “writing reports” story was a bunch of bs.


87 posted on 02/11/2012 2:22:51 PM PST by Krankor (It's time you started thinking inside your head, that you should you stand up and fight.)
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To: Ken H
I call BS.

The cop shot the guy in front of his kids. He made a very bad decision. He should pay dearly for it.

88 posted on 02/11/2012 2:30:17 PM PST by starlifter (Pullum sapit)
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To: UnwashedPeasant
I see “irrational” drivers every day. I did not know it was OK to just kill them.

I read incomplete and often times erroneous news reports on LEO shootings posted on this site so I'm going to reserve judgment until ALL THE FACTS come out........

I would hope that fellow FReepers would follow the same logic but that's not likely to happen. There's too many keyboard commandos wanting to claim the "see I told you so" award.

89 posted on 02/11/2012 2:31:26 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (The only solution to this primary is a shoot out! Last person standing picks the candidate)
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To: Bulwyf

Quite a few guys get out of the Corps, and go into law enforcement, even moreso in the OC. The odds are pretty good, in fact, that the deputy himself is a Marine. Assemble 20 OCSD deps, and you’re sure to have at least 8 Marines in the bunch.


90 posted on 02/11/2012 3:01:13 PM PST by absalom01 (You should do your duty in all things. You can never do more, you should never wish to do less.)
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To: Hot Tabasco
I'm going to reserve judgment until ALL THE FACTS come out.

That begs the question, why would it take so long for the facts to come out, when there are multiple investigators involved, and in fact witnesses present who were in the vehicle?

In addition, why has OCSD changed it's version of the "Facts" several times?

Is it a secret to report to the public the Marine was completely unarmed, no weapon, or that he was indeed armed with a weapon?

Why put such a tight lid on this? Why has the LE version of events changed?

91 posted on 02/11/2012 3:02:27 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

Sorry. A nutjob had already crashed his vehicle into a gate, refused an order to stop. Returned to the vehicle and with two female minors in the back seat attempted to flee. The deputy did not know if the girls were kidnapped sex slaves, illeghal aliens or escaped mental patients. Deputy deserved a medal.


92 posted on 02/11/2012 3:04:45 PM PST by elvis-lives
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To: dragnet2
That begs the question, why would it take so long for the facts to come out

Good question, please refer to my prior statement.........

I'm going to reserve judgment until ALL THE FACTS come out.

93 posted on 02/11/2012 3:09:14 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (The only solution to this primary is a shoot out! Last person standing picks the candidate)
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To: Hot Tabasco
That begs the question, why would it take so long for the facts to come out, when there are multiple investigators involved, and in fact witnesses present who were in the vehicle?

In addition, why has OCSD changed it's version of the "Facts" several times?

Is it a secret to report to the public the Marine was completely unarmed, no weapon, or that he was indeed armed with a weapon?

Why put such a tight lid on this? Why has the LE version of events changed?

Good question, please refer to my prior statement......... I'm going to reserve judgment until ALL THE FACTS come out.

Well wait a minute here, they already disseminated their facts, yet their version of the facts changed. Why are would it take so long?

This should not be a complex investigation.

All the players are accounted for, and in fact there are witnesses. What's the hold up?

Are you going to believe OCSD's version after their version has already changed?

94 posted on 02/11/2012 3:24:33 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Hot Tabasco; dragnet2

Not to butt in, but it might be pertinent to point out that there is an on-going criminal investigation being conducted right now regarding the deputy’s use of force and conduct, statements, actions and failures to act before and after the shooting occurred. So, it is indeed going to take some time for the facts to come out, but anyone who thinks that every split-second decision of the entire encounter won’t be dissected is hopelessly paranoid.

Second, as with any police use of force story on FR, the normal skepticism that meets any other story reported in the MSM evaporates. In my life, I’ve had occasion to read media accounts of events, statements, or situations to which I had been a witness. I’ve never seen a story that doesn’t contain numerous factual errors: an event that is reported to have happened on one street occurred a few blocks away, the time was wrong, a statement reported as a quote exactly contradicts what was actually said to the reporter. etc etc etc.

The thing is, if one is inclined to believe that the cops are all a bunch of thugs, you can read that into this story. If you’re inclined the other direction, there are pieces of the puzzle that support that reading as well.

But, by the time the facts are presented, the rabid Libertarian cop haters will have moved on to the next fresh story, and will concoct a witch’s brew of paranoid ramblings that will cite this caper as an example of “out of control police”, regardless of what the facts turn out to be. Because, for them, the point is not the truth, but justification of a world view that rejects all authority other than their own.


95 posted on 02/11/2012 3:32:35 PM PST by absalom01 (You should do your duty in all things. You can never do more, you should never wish to do less.)
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To: elvis-lives
Deputy deserved a medal.

The deputy shot the unarmed Marine to death because the deputy thought the Marine was a mental patient trying to run from the cop with his kidnapped sex slaves?

I see you have all this figured out.

Thanks for your keen insight!

Good grief!

96 posted on 02/11/2012 3:33:07 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2
Are you going to believe OCSD's version after their version has already changed?

Good question there Sgt. Friday but you're becoming a little tedious now, please refer to my prior statement.........

I'm going to reserve judgment until ALL THE FACTS come out.

97 posted on 02/11/2012 3:33:17 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (The only solution to this primary is a shoot out! Last person standing picks the candidate)
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To: absalom01
Not to butt in, but it might be pertinent to point out that there is an on-going criminal investigation being conducted right now

Forget the facts, there are onsite keyboard commandos who are privy to every nuance of every LEO shooting out there, so it's best not to even attempt to dispute their indisputable claims......

98 posted on 02/11/2012 3:39:07 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (The only solution to this primary is a shoot out! Last person standing picks the candidate)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

“...and so he shot their dad in the same vehicle the children were in. I’m sure those children really appreciate this deputy’s concern. Why didn’t the deputy prevent this guy from walking (not running) back to his car in the first place?”

Finally, the right question. Why indeed? Was a Taser avaliable? Where was the deputy standing relative to the driver? At what point was he aware that the children were in the car?

There’s too much fog, too little facts available in the media to answer any of those questions. This could either be a justified, though tragic use of force, or criminal incompetence. Can’t tell from the information present.

But you’re asking the right question.


99 posted on 02/11/2012 3:40:44 PM PST by absalom01 (You should do your duty in all things. You can never do more, you should never wish to do less.)
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To: absalom01
there is an on-going criminal investigation being conducted right now regarding the deputy’s use of force and conduct, statements, actions and failures to act before and after the shooting occurred.

How many versions from OCSD are you willing to accept?

Which one will you determine to be true? Which begs the question:

Why would you believe a government entity which has clearly already changed it's version of events?.

But, by the time the facts are presented, the rabid Libertarian cop haters will have moved on to the next fresh story, and will concoct a witch’s brew of paranoid ramblings

Nice try, but I've likely forgotten more about law enforcement procedures/investigations/public relations and tactics than you ever knew.

One not be a senior investigator to understand, based on that OCSD has reported and or not reported, that this shoot reeks bad.

100 posted on 02/11/2012 3:41:52 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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