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JEFF GUNDLACH: These 3 Charts On Government Jobs Should Make You Furious
TBI ^ | 2-15-2012 | Sam Ro

Posted on 02/15/2012 10:02:41 AM PST by blam

JEFF GUNDLACH: These 3 Charts On Government Jobs Should Make You Furious

Febuarary 15,2012
Sam Ro

Jeff Gundlach, the brains behind the $30 billion DoubleLine Capital, hosted a webcast with clients on Tuesday. The title of his presentation: "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire."

He drew parallels between the U.S. and Rome, highlighting excessive government spending.

Gundlach noted that one of the major problems with U.S. federal deficits is federal government employee pay.

He was appalled to see that these employees made "so much more than the private workers, who pay the taxes, that pay the salaries of the government workers!"

We pulled the three slides from Gundlach's presentation where he discusses this issue.

Click Here To See The 3 Slides From Gundlach's Presentation

(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: charts; corruption; government; taxpayers; unions

1 posted on 02/15/2012 10:02:47 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
HANK PAULSON: The #1 Root Cause Of A Financial Crisis Is Government
2 posted on 02/15/2012 10:05:03 AM PST by blam
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To: blam

3 posted on 02/15/2012 10:34:26 AM PST by null and void (Day 1121 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
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To: null and void
Avg. compensation for someone in the Military is $113K????

That must mean the MIC??? Right?

Surely not the branches of military.....

4 posted on 02/15/2012 10:38:54 AM PST by Osage Orange (A clear conscience is the sign of a fuzzy memory.)
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To: Osage Orange
Avg. compensation for someone in the Military is $113K????

I wondered about that too. I know every year that I was in, I got a statement that included all of the benefits I was getting and informed me that I was actually making much more that I realized. It was hog wash...it is probably the source for these numbers.

5 posted on 02/15/2012 10:46:09 AM PST by TankerKC (Welcome to the age of "I Meant to Do That" Diplomacy)
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To: blam

This is yet another example of demonizing federal employees by comparing apples to rocks. The vast majority of federal employees are educated. Comparing this to the private sector makes no sense - it’s basically no different than saying that your local bank pays its employees more than your local McDonald’s and concluding that the bank employees are overpaid. They don’t do the same job. The government pays basically nobody to do janitorial work, groundskeeping, hospitality, or anything like that.

I looked at moving last year and I can assure you that the private sector offers me more in “total compensation” than the government does but I decided not to move. Comparing apples to apples, you will find that government employees earn LESS than their private-sector counterparts. This is the reason that locality pay exists in the first place. The idiots in Congress (from both parties) naturally fail to recognize this. The federal pay freeze (as of right now, anyway) is set to expire. Locality pay should increase substantially to account for the huge jump in the public/private pay gap (in the end, saving nothing).

It just pisses me off when I read these things weekly saying somebody in Congress wants to either freeze or cut the pay for federal employees or cut the benefits of federal employees. The dollars saved are trivial - if I remember correctly, freezing federal pay saved something like $10 billion a year. These people are by definition middle-class (those on the general schedule are capped) and they are penalized while the government spends an order of magnitude more to pay people not to work.


6 posted on 02/15/2012 10:51:21 AM PST by flintsilver7 (Honest reporting hasn't caught on in the United States.)
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To: TankerKC
#19 seems odd too........

Way low.....IF you are considering Hollyweird, ABC , NBC, , CBS, NFL, NBA, MLB....

7 posted on 02/15/2012 10:53:29 AM PST by Osage Orange (A clear conscience is the sign of a fuzzy memory.)
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To: flintsilver7
The vast majority of federal employees are educated.

Are you saying...most American's not in the Federal work force...aren't?

The government pays basically nobody to do janitorial work, groundskeeping, hospitality, or anything like that.

Really? I dunno....about that. Are those job's farmed out? Even if they are..."we" are still paying for it. Right?

FWIW-$10 billion isn't trivial to me........

8 posted on 02/15/2012 11:03:14 AM PST by Osage Orange (A clear conscience is the sign of a fuzzy memory.)
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To: flintsilver7

Paper pushers do not need to be educated, but they do get paid more if they are. Government is doing many things that they should not be doing, most likely 50% of the government work force could be fired and it would be better for the country.


9 posted on 02/15/2012 11:18:40 AM PST by Ratman83
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To: Osage Orange

All the hundreds of people who work on movies don’t make the scratch the big stars do. Local radio/tv are not high paying jobs either. The big paychecks for the big stars are probably significantly skewing the average.


10 posted on 02/15/2012 11:19:50 AM PST by iceskater (I am a Carnivore Conservative - No peas for me. (h/t N.Theknow))
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To: flintsilver7

With regards to your “locality pay”. Are you saying that an FBI agent HAS to get his LEAP(10hrs overtime everyweek - the payweek is based on a 50hr workweek) and LOCALITY pay(varies across the country). But the local detective, who does more work in a month than most agents do in a year OR MORE, can live in the same place, without those incentives?

If so, then you’ll cry that feds aren’t eligible for overtime like the locals. Wrong. In most cases, the feds aren’t. But what do they get in return: FREE VEHICLE - just in case they have to race into work in the middle of the night. FREE GAS for FREE VEHICLE. GOVERNMENT CREDIT CARD-you know, just in case they have to follow Fugitive #1 half way across the country and have to buy underwear and toothpaste. However, the wrench in all of the above IS, that while some feds aren’t eligible for OT, quite a few are. Secret Service, DSS, Air Marshals.


11 posted on 02/15/2012 11:27:12 AM PST by qaz123
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To: blam

Can’t get much more furiouser (yes, I made that up) than I already am...


12 posted on 02/15/2012 11:32:12 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: iceskater
Maybe so....

I'd like to know exactly who they are and aren't counting.

13 posted on 02/15/2012 11:39:56 AM PST by Osage Orange (A clear conscience is the sign of a fuzzy memory.)
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To: Osage Orange
#19 seems odd too........

Good point.

14 posted on 02/15/2012 11:49:07 AM PST by TankerKC (Welcome to the age of "I Meant to Do That" Diplomacy)
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To: flintsilver7
I looked at moving last year and I can assure you that the private sector offers me more in “total compensation” than the government does but I decided not to move.

I made the move last August. I took a $6K cut and a slightly less generous benefits package.

I got lots more work and job security out of the deal.

15 posted on 02/15/2012 11:49:50 AM PST by TankerKC (Welcome to the age of "I Meant to Do That" Diplomacy)
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To: flintsilver7
I made the move last August. I took a $6K cut and a slightly less generous benefits package.

To clarify, I made the move from industry to the government.

16 posted on 02/15/2012 11:52:05 AM PST by TankerKC (Welcome to the age of "I Meant to Do That" Diplomacy)
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To: flintsilver7
“This is yet another example of demonizing federal employees by comparing apples to rocks.”

My consulting company did many salary surveys for government entities, and even in the 90’s Government employees doing the same job, and eductaion level(though gov has lower entrance standards) on a total compensation basis(includes wages & benefits) were making 20% more than in the private sector. It started to even out a bit as you moved yo the management ranks. Of course any manager that was good would leave for the private sector. Typically management in the public sector is not too good - of course we all know that.

17 posted on 02/15/2012 12:12:25 PM PST by stubernx98 (cranky, but reasonable)
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To: Osage Orange

Not at all. I’m saying that the percentage of federal employees (not state or local, as there is a huge difference) with a degree is much higher than the percentage of private employees with a degree. This is because the federal government does not have many blue-collar workers as I mentioned. They contract it out. While it comes out of the same budget, the salary is not considered in such a comparison. Where I work, we contract with an organization that provides developmentally disabled individuals to do janitorial work. We contract with another general facilities company to handle maintenance and repairs. It is my guess that they make substantially less than the average government employee, but the overall point (lost in nearly all of these pieces) is that they aren’t doing the same job.

$10 billion isn’t trivial. I don’t disagree. I simply feel like we’re living in some kind of sci-fi dystopia where we provide “unemployment compensation” for two years instead of a competitive salary for trained engineers. We pay for federal inspectors to seize the lunches of preschoolers. We pay for the medical insurance of families well above the poverty line. The lack of priority is astounding.


18 posted on 02/15/2012 3:49:48 PM PST by flintsilver7 (Honest reporting hasn't caught on in the United States.)
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To: Ratman83

I’m an engineer. I can guarantee that I can get paid more in the private sector. You might ask why I remain a federal employee and the answer is that I have had my graduate school tuition paid. Once I finish, I will be looking elsewhere.

I am certain that some people in the federal government are overpaid. I am also certain that lumping engineers in with tenured clerical employees makes no sense. I am even more certain that comparing the “average federal salary” with the “average private salary” makes similarly less sense. It would make the most sense if we could say that in a given area, if a private sector employee’s total compensation is X, then a public sector employee’s total compensation should also be X if the employees are about equal. What this does is punish the already underpaid federal workers (such as scientific and technical personnel) because the overpaid federal workers (clerical and administrative, for example) make too much and the government either can’t be troubled or isn’t smart enough to separate the two. It would make the most sense to freeze some salaries and raise others.


19 posted on 02/15/2012 3:54:50 PM PST by flintsilver7 (Honest reporting hasn't caught on in the United States.)
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To: TankerKC

Job security is the primary reason that people make that move. It used to be that you took the lower salary the government offered because the benefits were superior. Now, at least in the defense sector, both the benefits and the salary are superior in private industry. The last remaining reason to remain a federal employee is the pension - a package which has already been significantly reduced compared to the way it was (FERS compared to CSRS) and is now the new favorite target.

This isn’t about saving money directly. It’s about cutting the workforce through attrition and it remains to be seen how it will work. The average defense employee will still be paid by the taxpayer whether they work for a government agency or private industry.


20 posted on 02/15/2012 3:58:40 PM PST by flintsilver7 (Honest reporting hasn't caught on in the United States.)
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To: flintsilver7

Pretty much agree.............


21 posted on 02/15/2012 4:04:53 PM PST by Osage Orange (A clear conscience is the sign of a fuzzy memory.)
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To: flintsilver7
Used to be.....having a city, county, state, fed job...meant you had better hours, more holiday's, better retirement, more job security, less work, but less hourly pay.

It seems over the years those worker's have everything...that they had before, plus equal if not better pay.

FWIW-

22 posted on 02/15/2012 4:18:55 PM PST by Osage Orange (A clear conscience is the sign of a fuzzy memory.)
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To: flintsilver7
Show me where in the constitution the fed government has any justification for the following departments

EPA

DEA

BAFTE

SS

Education

Just as a first list.

I’m an engineer.

Big deal, so am I.

I can guarantee that I can get paid more in the private sector.

I see Federal Engineers that make as much or more than me so your guarantee means nothing. As a government worker you have no accountability were as in the private sector I can be sued over any and all of my work.

You might ask why I remain a federal employee and the answer is that I have had my graduate school tuition paid.

So you are sucking off the government teat for your own gratification. Wow real conservative. Government workers are not under paid, most are overpaid and should not be employed at all.

23 posted on 02/16/2012 7:48:09 AM PST by Ratman83
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To: Ratman83

Based on your grammar, I would suggest that you make less than comparable federal employees because you’re a moron. Being incompetent is a problem when it comes to getting paid.

It’s almost difficult to even respond to your post. You make little sense. If you’re going to argue that the government does not have any Constitutional justification for the departments listed, then *any* amount those employees are paid qualifies as an overpayment.

By the way, taking advantage of a benefit offered to me is not “sucking off the government teat” any more than an McDonald’s employee eating a free or discounted lunch is “sucking off the McDonald’s teat.”

Also, studies have repeatedly shown that federal salaries lag behind private industry salaries for comparable positions. The value of benefits is debatable and as such there is simply no data to support either position as far as overall compensation is concerned.

You may now resume your frustrated keyboard pounding.


24 posted on 02/16/2012 5:29:18 PM PST by flintsilver7 (Honest reporting hasn't caught on in the United States.)
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To: flintsilver7
Based upon your response I will assume that you work for one of the listed agencies or another unconstitutional one.

McDonalds does not take money by force to operate, so yes you are sucking off the government teat.

Per the info in the charts you can take your lagging salary bs and stick it in an appropriately dark place.

So you can go back to robbing from your fellow citizens.

25 posted on 02/17/2012 4:58:04 AM PST by Ratman83
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