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More Doctors 'Fire' Vaccine Refusers
Wall Street Journal ^ | FEBRUARY 15, 2012 | SHIRLEY S. WANG

Posted on 02/15/2012 1:10:19 PM PST by FewsOrange

Pediatricians fed up with parents who refuse to vaccinate their children out of concern it can cause autism or other problems increasingly are "firing" such families from their practices, raising questions about a doctor's responsibility to these patients.

Medical associations don't recommend such patient bans, but the practice appears to be growing, according to vaccine researchers.

In a study of Connecticut pediatricians published last year, some 30% of 133 doctors said they had asked a family to leave their practice for vaccine refusal, and a recent survey of 909 Midwestern pediatricians found that 21% reported discharging families for the same reason.

By comparison, in 2001 and 2006 about 6% of physicians said they "routinely" stopped working with families ...

Most pediatricians consider preventing disease through vaccines a primary goal of their job. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and AAP issue an annual recommended vaccination schedule, but some parents ask if their child's immunizations can be pushed back or skipped altogether, pediatricians say. While rates for several key inoculations in young children rose between 2009 and 2010, according to the CDC, lower immunization rates have been blamed as a factor in U.S. outbreaks of whooping cough and measles in recent years.

Parents often voice concerns about autism or that their child's immune system may be overwhelmed by too many vaccines at once. Worries about a link between vaccines and autism arose because some parents noticed their children regressed, or lost some skills, around the time of their vaccinations at two years of age. Another concern centered on the former use of mercury as a vaccine preservative.

Numerous studies since have dispelled these concerns among scientists. Rather, scientists say, it is more likely that autism symptoms begin showing up around the same age children are vaccinated.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: autism; vaccinations; vaccines
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1 posted on 02/15/2012 1:10:24 PM PST by FewsOrange
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To: FewsOrange

My guess this is being done on the advice of lawyers.

You know some doctor somewhere is getting sued for not vaccinating a child, even though it was the parents that refused the vaccination.


2 posted on 02/15/2012 1:13:41 PM PST by Brookhaven (Mitt Romney has been consistent since he changed his mind.)
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To: FewsOrange

This sounds like a marketing opportunity for a medical practice that doesn’t support vaccination. Surely there is at least one doctor, osteopathic practitioner, chiropractor, or something that would be interested in picking up these customers.


3 posted on 02/15/2012 1:16:32 PM PST by Tax-chick (I saw a werewolf drinking a pina colada at Trader Vic's. His hair was perfect!)
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To: FewsOrange
Worries about a link between vaccines and autism arose because some parents noticed their children regressed, or lost some skills, around the time of their vaccinations at two years of age.

Jesus H. Christmas, some people are stupid....

4 posted on 02/15/2012 1:16:34 PM PST by NoPinkos
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To: FewsOrange
'More likely' could be a statistical statement, but in this case it's simply wishful thinking - they simply don't know.

Vaccine Safety Conference Session 16 Dr. Christopher Exley

And, like with global warming, there are inconvenient facts out there showing that the consensus is wrong. That's not to say the anti-vaccine folks are proved true, just that the science is definitely not settled yet.

5 posted on 02/15/2012 1:17:02 PM PST by slowhandluke (It's hard to be cynical enough in this age.)
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To: Brookhaven

Agreed on the legal ramifications. It’s too much exposure for a doctor in these lawsuit days. “Hey didn’t INSIST we inoculate our child,” the formerly adamant against vaccinations mother said. “Now we need money !”


6 posted on 02/15/2012 1:20:02 PM PST by magritte (Nevermind)
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We're also going to try to replace some of our older servers and failing equipment this year so we're going to add a little extra to our FReepathon goals. John is estimating ten to fifteen thousand to do this and I'd like to get it all in place and working before the election cycle is fully heated up, so we'll try to bring in a little more now if we can and the rest next quarter.
Jim Robinson


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7 posted on 02/15/2012 1:21:52 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: magritte

Also, who wants to take their kid to a doctor that also has unvaccinated kids as patients? The risk may be low, but why take it if you don’t have to?


8 posted on 02/15/2012 1:24:39 PM PST by ltc8k6
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To: FewsOrange
Good. Hopefully knock some sense into these parents.
9 posted on 02/15/2012 1:28:09 PM PST by starlifter (Pullum sapit)
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To: slowhandluke

“That’s not to say the anti-vaccine folks are proved true, just that the science is definitely not settled yet.”

We do know that, for instance, not having a polio vaccine leads to polio and often consequences like paralysis.

The science of vaccination is settled. What isn’t settled is whether vaccinations are the cause of certain other ailments or whether it’s just bad parenting.

I submit that it’s not vaccinations that cause any complications, that it’s bad parenting. You may try to prove me wrong, but I’ll just say “the science of bad parenting is FAR from settled”.


10 posted on 02/15/2012 1:37:12 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: FewsOrange

These aren’t your kids, they belong to the State!

Now shut up and get back in line. We will give them the meds the State requires, they will learn what the State requires, and they will vote the way the State tells them.

No more of this by the people, for the people BS.....

sorry no /s tag, this is where we are heading.


11 posted on 02/15/2012 1:38:23 PM PST by wrench
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To: FewsOrange

There is a valid reason for these doctors to refuse to treat these individuals. Prevention of communicable disease often relies upon vaccinations to promote “herd immunity.” This protects individuals who are most susceptible to infectious diseases. (The elderly, the very young and those w/suppressed immune systems such as AIDS patients or those on immunosuppressive drugs; i.e.: transplant patients.)

By allowing children, whose parents refuse to have them vaccinated, access to his/her office, a physician would violate medical ethics and risk possible legal jeopardy for allowing other patients to be exposed to an unnecessary risk.


12 posted on 02/15/2012 1:38:23 PM PST by Ozymandias Ghost
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To: FewsOrange

Why don’t they just make them sign something that says they WERE advised???? And, that they will NOT make any legal claim based on non-vaccinations?


13 posted on 02/15/2012 1:39:23 PM PST by goodnesswins (2012..."We mutually pledge our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor")
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To: Tax-chick
My 8 year old’s pediatrician is wonderful. He said he still recommends them but understands there are enough concerns about them he'd never try to change a parent's mind.
14 posted on 02/15/2012 1:40:57 PM PST by porter_knorr
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To: FewsOrange

Science has become so politicized nowadays, and scientists so mendacious, that it’s hard to take anything uncritically. For me, vaccination is always a cost/benefit thing. I don’t take them just because they’re available, nor do I take them under the assurance that they’re neither harmless, nor will prove in the long run to be harmless.


15 posted on 02/15/2012 1:42:34 PM PST by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: porter_knorr

Our doctors have always let us decide which vaccinations we want and when. It helps that we homeschool, so we don’t have to deal with the requirements for any daycare or school.


16 posted on 02/15/2012 1:43:39 PM PST by Tax-chick (I saw a werewolf drinking a pina colada at Trader Vic's. His hair was perfect!)
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To: FewsOrange

I’m not sure I blame them, I don’t want my kids hanging around in the doctors lobby with some kid with TB or the Measles coughing up a storm because he’s got stupid parents. Also, many children, infants, are too young to get those shots and could easily die from the measles.

I agree with the doctors on this one.


17 posted on 02/15/2012 1:44:09 PM PST by Scythian
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To: FewsOrange

Ironic, I just fired my doctor for this type of bs.


18 posted on 02/15/2012 1:45:31 PM PST by CodeToad (NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!!!)
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To: ltc8k6
Also, who wants to take their kid to a doctor that also has unvaccinated kids as patients?

On a side note, my pet peeve is dog owners who don't get their dogs vaccinated for rabies. They keep their dogs under the grid.

3-4 years ago one of these unvaccinated dogs bit a little kid in my area and the dog had symptoms of rabies so they started the painful shots on the kid and sent the dog to the local vet who put it down and chopped off it's head and sent the head to the state lab for testing.

I live in a rural area and many people refuse to vaccinate their pets for rabies. Basic thought is it's their dog and they can do what they want and no one will tell them otherwise. It's unbelievable.

19 posted on 02/15/2012 1:45:49 PM PST by trailhkr1
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To: RFEngineer

We do know that, for instance, not having a polio vaccine leads to polio and often consequences like paralysis.

This is completely false.
One does not get polio because they do not have the vaccination. In fact Polio is eradicated in the US. The only cases of it are by the oral vaccination that is still offered in other countries.

The science of vaccinations is far from settled. Look at the explosion of disorders in school aged children and the amount of vaccinations that are introduced to a weak non-formed immune system. The science of vaccination is actually a huge science experiment at the expense of the most vulnerable of our society.


20 posted on 02/15/2012 1:46:31 PM PST by porter_knorr
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To: FewsOrange; All

why not just make dead virus vaccines without the preservatives and eliminate the complaints?

Even if it has to be special orded it seems a reasonable solution.


21 posted on 02/15/2012 1:48:35 PM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: wrench
"These aren’t your kids, they belong to the State!"

Pretty much. As the full implementation of the Health Care Reform Act gets nearer, expect physicians to drop anyone who has ever smoked or has any non compliant behavior. The law has too many financial disincentives for doctors and hospitals to take on patients who have a high chance of chronic illness. Kind of a stealth rationing program. Better pick out your ice floes while the selection is good!

22 posted on 02/15/2012 1:48:35 PM PST by buckalfa (Confused and Bewildered With a Glass Half Empty)
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To: Scythian

If you’ve got a waiting room with unprotected coughing you’ve got a stupid doctor. Also, if your kid has had innoculations then why are you worried?


23 posted on 02/15/2012 1:48:54 PM PST by CodeToad (NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!!!)
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To: Brookhaven

“My guess this is being done on the advice of lawyers.”

Probably.

My wife is a doctor and fires patients who won’t follow her advice. They always cause trouble and end up sick and blaming the doctor.


24 posted on 02/15/2012 1:50:35 PM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Brookhaven

Yes but you could make the same argument on the other side.

Doctors have been sued numerous times for vaccinating kids and having severe/fatal reactions to vaccines. Most notably HPV vaccine. Or infants who get so many vaccines at once that it’s too much for the body to deal with without causing problems.

I am sure that was based on legal advice they had currently been told by lawyers and they still got sued for giving vaccines.

And I have yet to find one single case of parents who have researched the “why” behind not wanting their kids vaccinated, to sue a doctor they told not to vaccinate their kid. The whole point is they don’t want the kid vaccinated. They WANT the doctor not to do anything. If the doctor vaccinates when they don’t want them to, THAT is the point where they would rightfully sue the doctor.


25 posted on 02/15/2012 1:50:44 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: slowhandluke

The dunderheads in the media (and I think too many docs unfortunately) seem to think the “autism” link is the only reason for refusal, as if there are no other good reasons like:

* use of fetal cell lines from abortions
* use of adjuvants other than mercury, like aluminum
* use of egg or other allergens
* the sheer aggressiveness of piggybacked vaccines
* vaccinations for normal, non-fatal childhood diseases (chickenpox)
* Gardasil (need I say more)

Vaccines are not panaceas. Every vaccination is a cost benefit analysis that has to be weighed individually.


26 posted on 02/15/2012 1:53:36 PM PST by Claud
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To: Tax-chick

I do a combo homeschool/Christian School in California - California has a great waiver program - you just sign you philosophically disagree and that’s the end of it.


27 posted on 02/15/2012 1:53:52 PM PST by porter_knorr
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To: ltc8k6

Well gee, if your kid is vaccinated what the heck do you have to worry about? Perhaps the fact vaccines have never been guaranteed to provide immunity?

You talk about even if the risk is low, why take it? That’s exactly what the parents who decide not to vacinate their kids believe too, about vaccines. There are risks to every vaccine, and some have higher risks than others, but why take it if you don’t have to?

Unless you are for forcing people to take vaccines so that you can believe you are safer. I would hope you aren’t that kind of ends-justifies-the-means socialist type of person.


28 posted on 02/15/2012 1:54:47 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: CodeToad

“Also, if your kid has had innoculations then why are you worried?”

Because herd immunity is the primary method immunizations work.


29 posted on 02/15/2012 1:55:01 PM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: FewsOrange; Chode

Fire them?

Wait just a minute! When one goes to a doctor you hire him/her!!! That doctor did not “fire” you he/she said “I quit”.

I personally would not give that employee a good reference in the future. After all if I tell my employee that I don’t want that shot then I don’t want that shot.


30 posted on 02/15/2012 1:58:29 PM PST by Morgana (I only come here to see what happens next. It normally does.)
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To: slowhandluke

I don’t think raising questions in this manner is radical or extreme in any way. Vaccine proponents should have nothing to fear from an open and honest discussion since they believe the evidence to be on their side.

The way they mock and deride most people who ask them to defend the status quo is shameful.


31 posted on 02/15/2012 1:59:42 PM PST by Cato in PA (1/26/12: Bloody Thursday)
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To: Claud

They are marketed as if you take them you won’t ever catch what you’ve been immunized for. That is simply not true.

More and more doctors and nurses have stopped vaccinating their kids or have skipped some of the vaccines for their kids.

Most adults have had far fewer vaccines, spaced further apart across the years, than todays kids. In my day there were about 5-6 vaccines. Not there are over 20. Then there are sexual vaccines that Merck needs to make money on.

To say these vaccines never get contaminated, anyone about Merck and the SV-40 viruses in their polio vaccines that THEY KNEW ABOUT and didn’t do jack sh1t about? That have led to a bunch of cancers and where many believe AIDS evolved from?

That no doctor ever used expired vaccines on people? That no doctor ever gave a vaccine that was supposed to be dead but still had live viruses that wound up giving the person the illness, sometimes a permanent one (again, polio) and others? That they have never found live viruses in vaccines that were assured to be dead viruses?

There’s plenty of reasons to seriously consider NOT taking vaccines. I don’t take vaccines so everyone else can be happy and think they are safer. I’d take them for ME, and then only if I knew they were safe and not made from aborted baby stem cell lines.


32 posted on 02/15/2012 2:02:51 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: starlifter

“Good. Hopefully knock some sense into these parents”

Whose money do you think it was that shoved this Obamacare garbage down our throats?

Parents who already Have some sense are the ones refusing Pharma owned medicine by bureaucratic, CYA checklist. Gardasil for boys?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2797779/posts

At least read the cafepharma thread by Merck Employees about what a pile of S**t their Gardasil and their Company are at comment 29.

http://www.cafepharma.com/boards/showthread.php?t=476247


33 posted on 02/15/2012 2:03:14 PM PST by To-Whose-Benefit? (It is Error alone which needs the support of Government. The Truth can stand by itself.)
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To: porter_knorr

We end up getting all the major vaccines and some that are less significant, but I like being able to work with a doctor and say, “We’d rather get this one on the next visit,” or “We don’t think this is necessary because of our limited exposure to disease vectors.”

Both doctors and patients (i.e., customers) should be able to decide whom they’ll do business with.


34 posted on 02/15/2012 2:05:14 PM PST by Tax-chick (I saw a werewolf drinking a pina colada at Trader Vic's. His hair was perfect!)
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To: Jewbacca

And this is the flaw of vaccines. It shows they really don’t work that well at all. Not if everyone else has to have it too. Otherwise if they worked so well, the ones who were vaccinated would have nothing to worry about.

Given the fact that drug makers know they are selling expensive prescription drugs that at best, work on only 50% of those that take them, and I’ve seen a senior pharma guy admit this in an interview, are we surprised that vaccines really don’t work that well?

Have you read the articles discussing the fact that the majority of flu cases each year are in people who have taken the flu vaccine? The one year they totally messed up the batches and said they wouldn’t work against the flu that year, so hardly anyone took it - as it’d truly be worthless - the flu deaths went down greatly. The year I believe was 2007-8 (it’s in the oughts) and the very year most elderly didn’t get vaccinated was the year elderly flu deaths were shockingly low.


35 posted on 02/15/2012 2:09:46 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Tax-chick
This sounds like a marketing opportunity for a medical practice that doesn’t support vaccination. Surely there is at least one doctor, osteopathic practitioner, chiropractor, or something that would be interested in picking up these customers.

Yes there is, you can call Luddite Medical Services at 555-1212.

36 posted on 02/15/2012 2:11:07 PM PST by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
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To: Secret Agent Man

“And this is the flaw of vaccines. It shows they really don’t work that well at all.”

Yeah, I miss iron lungs from polio and smallpox, too.

The good old days, you know?


37 posted on 02/15/2012 2:13:59 PM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Yes, exactly. All good points.


38 posted on 02/15/2012 2:14:19 PM PST by Claud
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To: FewsOrange

My doc is not pleased with me for not accepting a statin drug for cholesterol. He even pleaded with me and said he would “make” his own wife take it if he had to. I told him point blank: Okay, fire me. He didn’t, but probably doesn’t care too much now that I don’t have health insurance.


39 posted on 02/15/2012 2:21:57 PM PST by SaintDismas
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To: porter_knorr

“Look at the explosion of disorders in school aged children”

Bad parenting.


40 posted on 02/15/2012 2:23:10 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: NoPinkos
Jesus H. Christmas, some people are stupid....

Your language defines your intellect!!!! AND unless or until you have a 'perfectly' normal child that does in fact regresses, or is NOT the same child immediately after being vaccinated you have NO clue who is or is NOT stupid.

Seems rather strange given all this crisis mentality over NOT vaccinating the children, why are there NO vaccination clinics all along our borders? Yet it is government law these children must be allowed to go to school.

41 posted on 02/15/2012 2:23:42 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: Jewbacca
My wife is a doctor and fires patients who won’t follow her advice. They always cause trouble and end up sick and blaming the doctor.

My father got fired by his doctor after his doctor refused to fill his prescription for gout medication saying that my father did not have gout. This was despite the fact that his previous doctor, from whom he had bought the practice, had diagnosed my father's gout years before and had prescribed medication to treat it for years up till his retirement. The doctor was a West Pointer and former Army doctor and wasn't accustomed to having a patient challenge him.

42 posted on 02/15/2012 2:24:51 PM PST by Paleo Conservative
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To: porter_knorr

“In fact Polio is eradicated in the US”

Before arguing against vaccines, you might look at your own argument.

it appears to be “Vaccines don’t work because the illness is eradicated by vaccination”


43 posted on 02/15/2012 2:25:39 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: FewsOrange

Gosh, doctors making choices of conscience. Perhaps there is a hope for a free market after all. At least until some jerk decides they have to dispense abortions at the patient’s request.

Does anyone else see the importance of this freedom to treat?


44 posted on 02/15/2012 2:26:31 PM PST by Steamburg (The contents of your wallet is the only language Politicians understand.)
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To: RFEngineer
Bad parenting.

You are clueless.

45 posted on 02/15/2012 2:26:39 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: FewsOrange
Sounds like freedom of choice to me.

Of course, we only believe in choice when it comes to abortion.

46 posted on 02/15/2012 2:28:09 PM PST by Joe the Pimpernel (Should a constitution protect government from the individual, or the individual from government?)
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To: Ozymandias Ghost

All babies in a pediatric office are vulnerable to diseases carried by unvaccinated children.


47 posted on 02/15/2012 2:29:59 PM PST by tbw2
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To: FewsOrange
...raising questions about a doctor's responsibility to these patients.

I think that responsibility starts with "first, do no harm."

48 posted on 02/15/2012 2:30:56 PM PST by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: Jewbacca

“The good old days, you know?”

These are not “the good old days”.

The FDA’s objectivity is severely compromised by money it gets directly from drug, device and vaccine makers. It’s roughly 1/5th of their operating budget.

http://www.fda.gov/ForIndustry/UserFees/PrescriptionDrugUserFee/ucm152775.htm

FDA brass is in hot water with Congress for spying on, harassing, and firing FDA workers who’ve been blowing the whistle to Congress on unsafe medical devices.

http://www.pharmalot.com/2012/02/osc-joins-probe-over-fda-employee-whistleblowers/


49 posted on 02/15/2012 2:31:59 PM PST by To-Whose-Benefit? (It is Error alone which needs the support of Government. The Truth can stand by itself.)
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To: Paleo Conservative

Should have reported him to the State Medical Society.


50 posted on 02/15/2012 2:33:20 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture (Could be worst in 40 years))
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