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Deal reached on unemployment, payroll tax cut
cbs ^ | 2/16/2012 | ap

Posted on 02/16/2012 8:46:50 AM PST by tobyhill

Relieved congressional bargainers say they've reached agreement on compromise legislation extending payroll tax cuts and benefits for the long-term unemployed through 2012, edging a white-hot political battle a major step closer to finally being resolved.

Rep. David Camp, R-Mich., and Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., the two top negotiators, strode from a conference room minutes after midnight Thursday to say that only technical issues and the drafting of legislative language remained. The bill would assure a continued tax cut for 160 million workers and jobless benefits for several million others, delivering top election-year priorities for President Barack Obama.

"It's a very good deal for the country," said Baucus, who chairs the Senate Finance Committee.

(Excerpt) Read more at cbsnews.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: payrolltax; unemployment
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According to Obama and his campaign workers at the Dept. Of Labor, the economy is just steaming ahead so there was really no need for this unemployment extension or Social Security Trust Fund robbery.

Get ready to see a spike in the unemployment numbers because suddenly these people are counted again.

1 posted on 02/16/2012 8:46:59 AM PST by tobyhill
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To: tobyhill

Sounds like Obama and friends painted themselves into the corner on this.


2 posted on 02/16/2012 8:49:19 AM PST by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: tobyhill

Wait wait wait... you mean to tell me that if you lose your job, you can now collect unemployment for over 3 years?

What

The

Hell?

I’ve been unemployed for almost 4 months, did not apply for unemployment, and I’m going absolutely bonkers from boredom. 3 YEARS?! I’d sooner hang myself.


3 posted on 02/16/2012 8:49:56 AM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: tobyhill

Yep, when they all get back on the bus, they get counted again.

Unless they play with the numbers some more...


4 posted on 02/16/2012 8:50:00 AM PST by ltc8k6
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To: tobyhill

I does not appear to me this bill will extend additional unemployment benefits to anyone - just cuts the total number of weeks from 99 to 73.


5 posted on 02/16/2012 8:50:41 AM PST by Keith in Iowa (Willard Romney, purveyor of the world's finest bullmitt. | FR Class of 1998 |)
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To: tobyhill
Get ready to see a spike in the unemployment numbers because suddenly these people are counted again.

Didn't we discuss this last week? Unemployment compensation does not figure into calculations of the unemployment rate.

6 posted on 02/16/2012 8:53:57 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: tobyhill

Exactly. Because of the way they calculate U3, this (should) ironically make the U3 start shooting back up as tons of people reapply for benefits.

Every dark cloud has at least one silver lining.


7 posted on 02/16/2012 8:55:33 AM PST by Yashcheritsiy
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To: tobyhill

Do you guys really call it welfare? I mean these are people who worked. They can’t get it if they never worked before. There are quite a few people who worked 25 years at a company and were told to go home. Over 50 and trying to get a job is not easy. Unemployment is for people who worked. I don’t get the welfare tag. I am grateful not to have had to use it but if I ever were to lose a job, I can’t see feeling guilty because the company could not afford me anymore. If you want to ban unemployment and tell people to keep a six month emergency fund. Maybe start a fund that people contribute mandatorily to bank six months worth of funds so if they do lose their job they have that to fall back on. Are you guys SURE you want to call unemployment welfare? If you don’t like unemployment, what are the alternatives to this? Enforce companies that they are not allowed to give out pink slips?


8 posted on 02/16/2012 8:55:47 AM PST by napscoordinator (A moral principled Christian with character is the frontrunner! Congrats Santorum!)
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To: napscoordinator

I tend to agree.

Referring to unemployment as “welfare” is not *always* correct.

There are some people on it who are genuinely looking for a job, but due to the Obama economy, they can’t find one.

Of course, there ARE others who really do use unemployment as a prop to sit around and do nothing, making only a notional effort to “look for work” so they have something to turn in each week to prove that they’re “looking for work.”

But lumping the two together doesn’t seem fair to me.


9 posted on 02/16/2012 8:58:35 AM PST by Yashcheritsiy
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To: rarestia
you can now collect unemployment for over 3 years?
From the article ...
10 posted on 02/16/2012 8:58:39 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: tobyhill
Forbes article This is just another punt down the field. We will be paying for this one way or another but the scariest is having the FCC be the next revenue generating tool of the gov.
11 posted on 02/16/2012 9:00:36 AM PST by Baseballguy (If we knew what we know now in Oct would we do anything different?)
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To: Yashcheritsiy
Exactly. Because of the way they calculate U3, this (should) ironically make the U3 start shooting back up as tons of people reapply for benefits

The above is incorrect. Completely. Where does this misconception come from?

12 posted on 02/16/2012 9:02:52 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: tobyhill
Whoop-de-dooooo! The idiots have taken care of the employed and the unemployed once again to cover their political butts. But to hell with the senior citizens that are dependent upon social security for either their livelihood or to supplement their retirement benefits. Hey, Congress, how about giving we seniors a monthly stipend and/or reduce the income tax by 2% that we pay on our social security benefits. Why just pick a select group of winners. Do it the tee-ball way. Let everybody have a trophy. Then we can become Greece sooner rather than later.

We are no longer content to borrow money from China (who is becoming more reluctant to loan us money), but now we borrow from ourselves. Depleting the social security coffers is not the answer.

Also, the idiots have destroyed the return on our retirement funds held in IRAs at our banks. Bernanke took care of that for another three years by holding interest rates at zero. We seniors are getting a double whammy.

But then we seniors are not considered long term voters. Obamacare plans to just let us expire.

13 posted on 02/16/2012 9:03:06 AM PST by Saltmeat
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To: oh8eleven

In that case the unemployment rate should improve...


14 posted on 02/16/2012 9:03:34 AM PST by ltc8k6
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To: 1rudeboy

Your opinion? Or can you make a case?


15 posted on 02/16/2012 9:06:04 AM PST by Yashcheritsiy
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To: Keith in Iowa

It’s on top but in lieu of the 99 weeks so if someone is at 98 weeks then they can apply for the additional 73 weeks. What you say is correct if one hasn’t already applied for their Federal Extension then it will be 73 and not 99 weeks. Now if the benefits have already been exhausted past the 99 weeks and that person still has not found a job then they can file for an “Emergency Federal Unemployment Benefits Extension”. The Unemployment Office will interview the person and make sure they have been actively still searching and based on the answer will give a yes or no. If approved, they will deduct the number of weeks it has been expired from the current 73 weeks


16 posted on 02/16/2012 9:08:09 AM PST by tobyhill
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To: tobyhill; admin
Did you read the article before posting? It is not 73 MORE weeks of unemployment: You should ask the ad min to fix your untrue addition to the article title.
17 posted on 02/16/2012 9:10:44 AM PST by upchuck (Let's have the Revolution NOW before we get dumbed down to the point that we can't.)
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To: oh8eleven

Oh... well then... perhaps I shouldn’t post before noon on Thursdays.

Still... that’s 26 fewer weeks (half a year) but still over a year to be unemployed.

Again, I’ve been unemployed for 15 weeks, and I’m miserable. Any true American man or woman who’s unemployed for more than a few months is going to be as miserable and bored as me, I’d imagine. Unless, of course, you’re like 60 and want to spend more time with the kids/grandkids playing parcheesi or fishing.

My apologies to card players and fishermen for pigeonholing you.


18 posted on 02/16/2012 9:10:59 AM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: napscoordinator

I was on unemployment for a total of 6 weeks last year. Hated every second, but like you said, I worked and I paid into the system. I took the first job I could find... longer commute, less pay, but I needed a job so there you have it.

I haven’t yet had anyone tell me to my face that I took welfare. I’m waiting for the day.


19 posted on 02/16/2012 9:11:11 AM PST by Ace of Spades (Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Yashcheritsiy
Or can you make a case?

Once a week, it seems. Most annoying is to correct someone only to see them repeat the same falsehood later. Please pay particular attention to the second paragraph. From the BLS website:

What do the unemployment insurance (UI) figures measure?

The UI figures are not produced by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Statistics on insured unemployment in the United States are collected as a by-product of UI programs. Workers who lose their jobs and are covered by these programs typically file claims ("initial claims") that serve as notice that they are beginning a period of unemployment. Claimants who qualify for benefits are counted in the insured unemployment figures (as "continued claims"). Data on UI claims are maintained by the Employment and Training Administration, an agency of the U.S. Department of Labor, and are available on the Internet at: http://workforcesecurity.doleta.gov/unemploy/claims.asp.

These data are not used to measure total unemployment because they exclude several important groups. To begin with, not all workers are covered by UI programs. For example, self-employed workers, unpaid family workers, workers in certain not-for-profit organizations, and several other small (primarily seasonal) worker categories are not covered. In addition, the insured unemployed exclude the following:


20 posted on 02/16/2012 9:15:34 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
The way Obama counts it doesn't but it actually does. All these people that have been dropped out of the system, which is why the numbers dropped, will suddenly be added back into the “unemployed” but in the workforce once they refile.

What they may try to pull is increase the participation rate from the current record low to equal the numbers of new filings to give an illusion everything is fine.

21 posted on 02/16/2012 9:18:27 AM PST by tobyhill
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To: tobyhill
If you qualify, you are eligible for benefits for a maximum of 26 weeks in most states.
The Extended Benefits program is generally available to individuals during overall high times of unemployment. These benefits can provide up to an additional 13 weeks. In certain situations, the benefits can be extended up to an additional 20 weeks.

Source

So, you can expect to collect Unemployment Benefits for 39 weeks (just short of 10 months); now we want to extend this to ANOTHER 73 weeks, thus giving every unemployed worker a total of 112 weeks to find another job? That's over 2 years of living off the taxpayer, will looking for another job.

22 posted on 02/16/2012 9:18:52 AM PST by Hodar ( Who needs laws; when this FEELS so right?)
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To: tobyhill
It’s on top but in lieu of the 99 weeks so if someone is at 98 weeks then they can apply for the additional 73 weeks.

Please cite a link for that claim. I ask because that is not stated in the article.

23 posted on 02/16/2012 9:20:31 AM PST by upchuck (Let's have the Revolution NOW before we get dumbed down to the point that we can't.)
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To: tobyhill
Yes, adjusting the labor force participation rate is the primary method to massage the unemployment rate figure. But unemployment compensation does not count in the calculation.

I really am running out of ways to repeat the same thing over and over.

24 posted on 02/16/2012 9:23:05 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: upchuck
It is 73 MORE weeks. If someone is on their 98th week then they can file for the extension and that will make 171 weeks.
25 posted on 02/16/2012 9:24:39 AM PST by tobyhill
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To: Ace of Spades
I worked and I paid into the system

A common misperception here- companies pay 100 % of unemployment premiums- workers pay nothing. Check your paystubs if you don't believe it. To call it welfare isn't accurate; but to say you paid into it isn't either.

The company you worked for paid for you, and will continue to pay in increased premiums, as long as you draw unemployment, and for quite a while after. Unemployment is an employee benefit, paid for by the company.

26 posted on 02/16/2012 9:24:45 AM PST by Red Boots
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To: tobyhill

An example of how OWS did its intended job in preparing the battlefield. Pubbies turned jelly-kneed at the thought of facing “the 99%” if they opposed this.


27 posted on 02/16/2012 9:26:55 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
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To: upchuck

The Texas Workforce Commission that I just called. Now call yourself.

BTW, that’s the reason it’s costing an ADDITIONAL $100 billion. If it was as you claim then it would actually save money from what the previous estimates were.


28 posted on 02/16/2012 9:28:32 AM PST by tobyhill
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To: tobyhill
Dropped from the final compromise were proposals to renew expiring business tax cuts; a GOP plan to require unemployment recipients to work toward high school equivalency diplomas; and another Republican provision, aimed at illegal immigrants, requiring low-income people to have Social Security numbers before they can get checks from the Internal Revenue Service for the children's tax credit.

Why do we bother with foreign aid at all? We can just put everyone in the world on US welfare, since no one ever has to prove citizenship to get their "free" money.

29 posted on 02/16/2012 9:28:40 AM PST by denydenydeny (The more a system is all about equality in theory the more it's an aristocracy in practice.)
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To: tobyhill

You all are driving me nuts!
Unemployment compensation is not welfare.
When you lose your job of 25+ years, you DO NOT have to take a job for less money than what you were paid at your previous job. The chances of one finding another job at your last rate is slim to none, especially for someone over 50, as indicated many times over by others.
So, my point, ease off on the folks over 50, they deserve a rest. They’ve worked hard, and if they are milking the system, so what, they paid into it.


30 posted on 02/16/2012 9:32:18 AM PST by siamesecats (God closes one door, and opens another, to protect us.)
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To: 1rudeboy

You’re right.


31 posted on 02/16/2012 9:32:32 AM PST by tobyhill
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To: tobyhill

You all are driving me nuts!
Unemployment compensation is not welfare.
When you lose your job of 25+ years, you DO NOT have to take a job for less money than what you were paid at your previous job. The chances of one finding another job at your last rate is slim to none, especially for someone over 50, as indicated many times over by others.
So, my point, ease off on the folks over 50, they deserve a rest. They’ve worked hard, and if they are milking the system, so what, they paid into it.


32 posted on 02/16/2012 9:35:20 AM PST by siamesecats (God closes one door, and opens another, to protect us.)
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To: tobyhill

You all are driving me nuts!
Unemployment compensation is not welfare.
When you lose your job of 25+ years, you DO NOT have to take a job for less money than what you were paid at your previous job. The chances of one finding another job at your last rate is slim to none, especially for someone over 50, as indicated many times over by others.
So, my point, ease off on the folks over 50, they deserve a rest. They’ve worked hard, and if they are milking the system, so what, they paid into it.


33 posted on 02/16/2012 9:35:31 AM PST by siamesecats (God closes one door, and opens another, to protect us.)
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To: siamesecats
“They’ve worked hard, and if they are milking the system, so what, they paid into it.”

Then why is it costing taxpayer's $100 billion?

34 posted on 02/16/2012 9:36:05 AM PST by tobyhill
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To: tobyhill

This is bad economics, but good politics....for the short term.

Too many voters can’t or won’t see past the bumper-sticker to understand the economics.

Better to take the club from Obama’s hand and live to kick him out of office, to more effectively resolve the problem.


35 posted on 02/16/2012 9:39:04 AM PST by G Larry (We are NOT obliged to carry the snake in our pocket and then dismiss the bites as natural behavior.)
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To: All
The reason I refer to it as “welfare” is that if Obama’s claims that jobs are so plentiful, he also stated to a Youtube participant, then there should be no one out of work that wants a job.
36 posted on 02/16/2012 9:45:57 AM PST by tobyhill
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To: tobyhill

I have no clue, I was not an economics major.
Methinks something else was snuck into the bill they’re not telling us???


37 posted on 02/16/2012 9:46:57 AM PST by siamesecats (God closes one door, and opens another, to protect us.)
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To: ltc8k6
Unless they play with the numbers some more...

And what about this administration - or our king - would lead you to believe they WON'T continue to lie to us?
38 posted on 02/16/2012 9:50:23 AM PST by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: Yashcheritsiy

And I agree too.Fortunately,I am self employed and still have enough work. We are an industrialized nation that is going broke. People can’t just go home and “live on the farm” like many could do during the depression. There aren’t enough cars to wash, or bathrooms to clean to employ all the people out of work. It’s true that there are those that milk the system, but for the most part, people who have to use unemployment benefits would rather not be having to do so. Maybe I’m not “conservative enough” on this issue, but I really believe that helping folks survive by unemployment benefits is one of the more legitimate uses of our tax dollars. I can think of a lot of other things and agencies that could be defunded to help fund unemployment benefits.


39 posted on 02/16/2012 9:58:56 AM PST by Quickgun (Second Amendment. The only one you can put your hands on.)
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To: tobyhill

Actually won’t that put people back on the unemployment list and increase the denominator and make the unemployment rate higher by the election?

I mean this will make the disappearing people reappear


40 posted on 02/16/2012 10:00:02 AM PST by hecht (Murray use your coaster)
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To: onedoug

Happy days are here again.


41 posted on 02/16/2012 10:02:15 AM PST by windcliff
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To: Ace of Spades

Unemployment is paid by the employer not the employee. After I was forced to make layoffs last year my SUI premiums exploded for 2012.

That and the looming ObamaCare tax is why I’m reluctant to re-hire anybody right now.


42 posted on 02/16/2012 10:02:42 AM PST by Gideon7
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To: hecht

It should but the administration will probably just increase the rate of participation from its current record low and make the numbers look better.


43 posted on 02/16/2012 10:02:56 AM PST by tobyhill
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To: tobyhill; siamesecats
Then why is it costing taxpayer's $100 billion?

Here's a better question, why, when tax payers on the hook for $1/4 - 1/3 trillion per year for illegal aliens, and $~20,000 per year per low wage immigrant household, is the first thing up for cuts unemployment [into which you paid as a condition of employment], social security [ditto], and military pensions [ditto]?
44 posted on 02/16/2012 10:20:02 AM PST by khelus
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To: Gideon7

Nothing is free. Everything will be put on the backs of average people. When SUI gets higher prices are increased to cover.

Also the FCC auctions is about to make communications more expensive. When the FCC auctions of sub-700mhz the carriers will charge higher premiums to pay for the cost.


45 posted on 02/16/2012 10:26:37 AM PST by Baseballguy (If we knew what we know now in Oct would we do anything different?)
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To: oh8eleven

Yeah... I got that. I admit, I didn’t read the article thoroughly. My sincerest apologies for being misinformed.

Still... a year and a quarter (~5 quarters or ~15 months) is disgusting.


46 posted on 02/16/2012 10:50:47 AM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: 1rudeboy; Yashcheritsiy
Yashcheritsiy: "Because of the way they calculate U3, this (should) ironically make the U3 start shooting back up as tons of people reapply for benefits."

1rudeboy: "The above is incorrect. Completely. Where does this misconception come from?"

It comes from the United States Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics:

U-3 Total unemployed, as a percent of the civilian labor force (official unemployment rate)

1rudeboy: "Most annoying is to correct someone only to see them repeat the same falsehood later."

You shouldn't post falsehoods then!

Employed persons consist of:

Persons are classified as unemployed if they do not have a job, have actively looked for work in the prior 4 weeks, and are currently available for work.

Persons not in the labor force are those who are not classified as employed or unemployed during the survey reference week.

Millions of unemployed people have dropped dropped out of the workforce because they are no longer actively looking for work. With this extension of benefits millions of "unemployed, but not counted as unemployed" people will now begin to look for work. This will in fact, increase the total number of unemployed, which in turn will cause the U-3 number to rise!

47 posted on 02/16/2012 10:57:33 AM PST by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: rarestia
Again, I’ve been unemployed for 15 weeks, and I’m miserable.
Have been laid off three times in life:
1970 ... took UI for 12 weeks, ended with me going to college.
1993 ... had a mortgage, kids in college, etc. Took UI for 26 weeks, plus two under the table jobs - made more than my ex-job. Paid off all bills.
2007 ... ready to retire and didn't give a hoot. Took 99 weeks of UI gladly.
All things happen for a reason.
48 posted on 02/16/2012 11:01:32 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: tobyhill
fox news radio is reporting unemployment dropping fast and Housing is improving and HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN... and I just do not understand how anyone can defend fox news any longer.

LLS

49 posted on 02/16/2012 11:09:02 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (Hey repubic elite scumbags... jam mitt up your collective arses!)
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To: windcliff

Thank ya’ massa. Bless ya’ massa....


50 posted on 02/16/2012 11:20:16 AM PST by onedoug
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