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Are We Coming Apart?
http://townhall.com/columnists/johncgoodman/2012/02/18/are_we_coming_apart ^ | February 18, 2012 | John C.Goodman

Posted on 02/18/2012 6:37:10 AM PST by Kaslin

We are experiencing an ever widening cultural divide, according to Charles Murray.

Upper-middle class professional types may pretend that they are cultural relativists, accepting of whatever lifestyle their fellow human beings happen to choose. In reality, they live by old fashioned puritan values, however. They get married and stay married. They work hard and work long hours.

Not so for the blue collar, never-got-beyond-high-school class, however. A shocking number aren't even working at all. Many are not getting married in the first place. Of those that get married, the divorce and separation rates are soaring.

What about happiness and well-being? About 65% of the upper middle class professional types say they are in happy marriages. That number has been dropping steadily for the past 40 years for the working class types; and today it stands at 25%!

Murray, by the way, is the author of Losing Ground, the book generally credited with sparking welfare reform in the United States, and The Bell Curve, the book that generated a national debate on the role of IQ in our society. When he speaks, people on both the right and the left tend to listen. His latest book, Coming Apart, is another block buster.

Just so you don't think what Murray is describing is all about race or about immigrants, the entire analysis in it is focused on non-Hispanic whites. Within the white population a cultural cataclysm is underway. One part of that population (about 20% of the total) is firmly attached to traditional values. The other part (about 30% of the total) is undergoing cultural disintegration.

In 1960, these two groups of people lived similar lives. Today, they are headed in opposite directions.

Take divorce. Between 1960 and 1980, Murray shows that working class whites' divorce/separation rate rose from about 5% to about 15%. Over the next 20 years it more than doubled again, rising from 15% to 35%. The professional class also saw an increase in the divorce rate rise between 1960 and 1980: from about 1% to about 7.5% between 1960 and 1980. But it then completely leveled off: the professional class divorce/separation rate has been flat for the last thirty years. The same pattern holds for children growing up in broken homes. There has been a steady increase for the working class and a low plateau for the professional class.

What about work? In 1968, only 3% of prime age males with no more than a high school education were "out of the labor force." By 2008, that figure climbed to 12% — almost one in eight. Meanwhile, little has changed among males with a college education.

Part-time work is another indicator of the decline of industriousness among the working class. Among prime age males with no more than a high school education, the fraction working fewer than 40 hours a week doubled — from 10% in 1968 to 20% in 2008. Among the college graduates, the rise was much smaller: from 9% to 12%.

Writing in The New York Times the other day, David Brooks noted that the key ingredient in the cultural disintegration of working class life style is the role of men:

Tens of millions of men have marred life chances because schools are bad at educating boys, because they are not enmeshed in the long-term relationships that instill good habits and because insecure men do stupid and self-destructive things.

Over the past 40 years, women's wages have risen sharply but, as Michael Greenstone and Adam Looney of the Hamilton Project point out, median incomes of men have dropped 28 percent and male labor force participation rates are down 16 percent. Next time somebody talks to you about wage stagnation, have them break it down by sex. It's not only globalization and technological change causing this stagnation. It's the deterioration of the moral and social landscape, especially for men.

Religious beliefs are changing too. Secularism rose 11 percentage points (from 29% to 40%) for the upper middle class, but rose 21 percentage points (from 38% to 59%) for the working class.

What about cause and effect? It should be obvious that culture affects economic outcomes, but some on the left think it's the other way around. Here's an amazing statement by Paul Krugman writing in The New York Times:

Traditional values aren't as crucial as social conservatives would have you believe — and, in any case, the social changes taking place in America's working class are overwhelmingly the consequence of sharply rising inequality, not its cause.

As usual, Krugman has it completely wrong. When Charles Murray was in Dallas the other day I suggested to him that culture is like the economists' notion of a "public good." We all benefit from it, even if we personally do nothing to create it, nurture it, or defend it. But if the institutions that sustain a culture are weak and eroding, then the culture itself will disappear and everyone will be affected by that change.

What is happening in working class America is the disintegration of the American way of life.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: america; middleclass; secularism; socialist

1 posted on 02/18/2012 6:37:12 AM PST by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

America was not long ago, the world’s most powerful manufacturing nation.

We volutarily, send that power and industry to China.

That was STUPIDITY, and it was extremely harmful.

America is now weak. And broke. And it was because we sent what made us strong and rich, to a very powerful adversary.

Wake up America.


2 posted on 02/18/2012 6:42:03 AM PST by Cringing Negativism Network ("The door is open" PALIN 2012)
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To: Kaslin

Since they removed the Ten Commandments from the town square, the only ‘code’ left to bind us together is the Constitution. Everyone here sees where that’s headed.


3 posted on 02/18/2012 6:44:38 AM PST by griswold3 (Big Government does not tolerate rivals.)
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To: Kaslin
NPR did a segment on Charles Murray's book last week. Hands down the most biased and unfair segment I've ever heard. They rarely let Murray speak about his book. They had a talkative host (hated the book), a talkative Harvard expert (hated the book) and lots of callers (hated, hated, hated).

They put words in Murray's mouth "Poor people are immoral" and "Rich people are gentically superior" which Murray denied, but they weren't accepting his denials.

Unbelievable.

4 posted on 02/18/2012 6:44:47 AM PST by ClearCase_guy ("And the public gets what the public wants" -- The Jam)
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To: Kaslin

Something we have known for quite some time. And yes, Paul Krugman is a clown.


5 posted on 02/18/2012 6:45:45 AM PST by TheWriterTX (All in now for Newt Gingrich)
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To: Kaslin

“Theodore Dalrymple,” the British essayist, made this point years ago. As so often happens, Britain is further down the slope than we, in the social devastation of what was once its “working class.”


6 posted on 02/18/2012 6:49:23 AM PST by Tax-chick (I saw a werewolf drinking a pina colada at Trader Vic's. His hair was perfect!)
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To: Kaslin
Alexis de Tocqueville said it a century and a half ago: "America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great."

Liberals have spent the last half a century crushing the values that made America good.

7 posted on 02/18/2012 6:49:37 AM PST by IronJack (=)
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To: Kaslin

What is happening in working class America is the disintegration of the American way of life.... Exactly as planned. Since 1958.


8 posted on 02/18/2012 6:54:27 AM PST by Safetgiver (I'd rather die under a free American sky than live under a Socialist regime.)
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To: Kaslin
"In reality, they live by old fashioned puritan values, however. They get married and stay married. They work hard and work long hours."

These are "old fashioned puritan values"?

No.

This is behavior that is indelibly programmed in the DNA of homo sapiens.

It's the sapiens part that's important here.

Yes. There have always been deviations from this behavior, but since long before history began, men and women were establishing permanent relationships, having children, and working long, hard hours--whether at bringing home mammoth meat for the family--protecting everyone from cave bears--making warm clothes for the kiddies out of sabre-tooth tiger skins--or whatever.

It's why homo sapiens is the most successful animal on the planet.

Homo sapiens is still engaged in this highly successful behavior.

Sharing the planet with large numbers of homo non-sapiens hasn't changed anything.

Don't expect homo non-sapiens to understand. It's beyond his/her comprehension.

9 posted on 02/18/2012 6:59:09 AM PST by Savage Beast (The MSM "improves" on truth: hubris, denial, tragedy.)
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To: Safetgiver

1958? WHY 1958? What’s significant about that year.(Some people will go for 1948 — the year the supreme court did the seperation of church and state nonsense. or 1961, the year they stopped allowing prayer to be used in school.


10 posted on 02/18/2012 7:05:21 AM PST by ckilmer
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To: Kaslin
Photobucket
11 posted on 02/18/2012 7:10:48 AM PST by baddog 219
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To: Kaslin

I think the real divide is between normal hardworking ethical Americans and the immoral uneducated (by their own choice) parasites. I used to have some slight bit of empathy for these types of people, but after spending the last three years commuting up to 190 miles a day to find employment while watching my slacker neighbors sit on their asses and collect welfare, disability, free health care, etc., I have none.

When the big dust up comes, and that could be as soon as the day Obama loses the election (praise God). I will be up in the wilds of Maine, locked and loaded and anxious to get it ON!

I really have grown to hate these filthy maggots, half of them you could not say are even human, lacking, as they do, empathy, critcal thinking, self-control and yet full of every vice and low achievement.

We are two nations and we are headed for the inevitable clash of two totally different cultures.


12 posted on 02/18/2012 7:18:17 AM PST by oncebitten (Obama: "A Big Ole’ Hunk of Nothing on Two Thick Slices of Nada.”)
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To: Kaslin

read


13 posted on 02/18/2012 7:20:52 AM PST by sauropod (You can elect your very own tyranny - Marc Levin)
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To: Kaslin

By design, grinding America down.


14 posted on 02/18/2012 7:28:27 AM PST by thirst4truth (www.Believer.com)
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To: oncebitten

If you ever want to see the “Other” nation, go to a Walmart sometime. I don’t frequent Walmart much, but there is on near my office and (occassionally) I stop in.

The collection of distorted, dysfunctional individuals I see there never ceases to amaze me. Not everyone, mind you, but maybe about 50%. These are the obese people (all races), wearing random t-shirts and sweat pants and look as if they haven’t worked in at least the last decade. They are also the ones who get really nasty with the poor cashiers over the slightest thing. Like when they claim that some that something that costs $20 actually cost $5. And, of course, they use EBT cards to pay.

When I see these people, its hard to believe we’re from the same country. But we are—and my tax $$ make them possible.


15 posted on 02/18/2012 7:33:01 AM PST by rbg81 (scillian's)
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To: ckilmer

Personally, I think 1965 was the watershed year. Its when the Great Society really got rolling and Kennedy’s [highly destructive] Immigration Act was passed. It also saw the first “Long, Hot Summer” of rioting in Amican cities. Our downhill slide started then.


16 posted on 02/18/2012 7:37:13 AM PST by rbg81 (scillian's)
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To: Kaslin

The divide, those that do, and those that refuse too! Later will lose because those that do are tired of carrying the whole load!!


17 posted on 02/18/2012 7:46:07 AM PST by PROTESTBYPROXY (We are screaming!)
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To: Kaslin

Hmmm, why does Romans chapter 1 come to mind? uhhh, verse 21 or is it 24? or both? Hmmm, better check......


18 posted on 02/18/2012 7:53:17 AM PST by chickenlips (Pride IS the problem. (1 Peter 5:5))
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To: PROTESTBYPROXY
The divide, those that do, and those that refuse too! Later will lose because those that do are tired of carrying the whole load!!

If Zero is returned to the throne on Nov 6, I am looking for a resurgence of the "Who is John Galt" meme.
19 posted on 02/18/2012 7:58:15 AM PST by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: Savage Beast

I bought the book and read it and it is frightening.

I urge people to buy it and read it. Heavy, HEAVY on graphs etc.

Why the media loves to defend illegitimacy, drugs, tattoos and lazy men on unemployment/disability is beyond me. They themselves wouldn’t let their kids live like that nor do they.

As for homo sapiens, children of single mothers bcome very much like primates, it becomes a primate horde, with young males running in packs, fighting over females, the young females having babies as soon as they are fertile, the females forming the only relational group. We revert to primates very quickly without marriage.


20 posted on 02/18/2012 8:07:50 AM PST by squarebarb
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To: Kaslin

Traditional values died in the 60’s,woodstock anyone?.


21 posted on 02/18/2012 8:35:10 AM PST by Vaduz
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All contributions are for the
Current Quarter Expenses.


22 posted on 02/18/2012 8:49:48 AM PST by RedMDer (Forward With Confidence!)
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To: Kaslin

A lot of America’s social sexual problems are based in something that was long not even noticed. Many children today are brought up with almost no socialization with the opposite gender.

Thus there are a huge number of adults who have never done anything social with the opposite gender. They have never played with them, worked with them, had any friends other than in their own gender, and more and more, never even dated them until they were adults, when they were expected to “find someone and marry them.” Like, how?

Girls and women think they are broadcasting all sorts of sexual attraction cues, that initiate interaction with boys and men. But the vast majority of men have no idea, just the few, often of low character, who do. So girls and women think they have no choice but to associate with these men, as nobody else “pays them attention”.

And many girls and women are so deprived of attention, that they turn into “attention junkies”, confusing attention with affection, even if that attention is violent, uncaring, exploitative and mean.

If you ask adults, they *assume* that their children were socialized in school and in church. But this is not the case. In both situations, adults keep the children busy doing other things.

For children, and now even for adults, there are almost no opportunities for polite and extended interaction, chaperoned, with no demands that they have to do something.

What, in a bar, with drunks? Church again, with people they are only in the same room with for an hour, once a week?

If you isolate a dog from other dogs when it is growing up, it will still want to mate, but it will see other dogs as hostile and unfriendly. It won’t know how to interact with them. Why should humans be different?

While this sounds academic, the reality is that it is making life miserable for millions of people, and harming our society and our children in a multitude of ways.

We must devise some means for boy and girl children to interact, in a chaperoned situation, in which they are not permitted to self-segregate by gender, nor distracted by what adults demand they do.


23 posted on 02/18/2012 9:07:41 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

So true.


24 posted on 02/18/2012 9:29:41 AM PST by M1903A1 ("We shed all that is good and virtuous for that which is shoddy and sleazy... and call it progress")
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To: Kaslin

We are becoming England.


25 posted on 02/18/2012 9:40:52 AM PST by Publius
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To: squarebarb
It's decadence.

The Media and its so-caled "journalists" are so thoroughly suffused with it that they cannot see what's going on or the terrible contribution they're making to it.

It's the same with so-called "liberals" (they're anything but liberal) all across the board--from academia to Hollywood to Washington to the press and everywhere else.

It is to our advantage that we are smarter than they are and think clearly, but it's going to take all the resources we can find just to counteract the destruction wreaked by these morons.

26 posted on 02/18/2012 10:37:17 AM PST by Savage Beast (The MSM "improves" on truth: hubris, denial, tragedy.)
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To: rbg81

I agree that 1965, for the reasons you stated, is the watershed year. As a Catholic, I can tell you from the research that vocations to the priesthood and church attendance peaked in 1966 and have been in yearly decline ever since, no doubt resulting from the overall decline triggered by the Great Society.


27 posted on 02/18/2012 11:03:27 AM PST by jobim (.)
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To: ClearCase_guy; Kaslin
"NPR did a segment on Charles Murray's book last week. Hands down the most biased and unfair segment I've ever heard. They rarely let Murray speak about his book. They had a talkative host (hated the book), a talkative Harvard expert (hated the book) and lots of callers (hated, hated, hated)."

"They put words in Murray's mouth "Poor people are immoral" and "Rich people are gentically superior" which Murray denied, but they weren't accepting his denials."

"Unbelievable."

Yes. It's just shocking that Murray's favorite class ("professional" bureaucrats, pensioned bureaucrats and the "service industry" vendors who depend mostly on them as customers, Hillary's NPR fans) would disagree with him, showing themselves to be even more moronic than their equally socialist, bipartisan counterparts (the slicker half until recently).

This is one messed up country, and the remainder of the default process is imminent. Lies, robberies and thefts with policies and laws to support those activities while forbidding all real work (production of useful things). Starve the beast.


28 posted on 02/18/2012 12:21:04 PM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: ClearCase_guy; Kaslin

Are there fifty righteous people in any one of the cities?


29 posted on 02/18/2012 12:26:06 PM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: Kaslin

Charles Murray will be on CSPAN 2 at 7:30pm to discuss his book in case you’re interested.


30 posted on 02/18/2012 4:03:08 PM PST by BufordP ("Drink me if you can't take a joke." --Kool-Aid)
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To: rbg81

The Great Society certainly destroyed the black family structure in the US. In two generations the illegitimacy rate has become > 70%. No politician or MSMer seems to want to mention any of that.

Just put more $$ into the “schools” that will fix everything.


31 posted on 02/18/2012 4:12:19 PM PST by nascarnation (DEFEAT BARAQ 2012 DEPORT BARAQ 2013)
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To: Kaslin

Placemark.


32 posted on 02/18/2012 8:19:05 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell)
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To: Publius
"We are becoming England."

I can't wait to see all the school uniforms. No more baggy pants. Don't forget the ties boys!


33 posted on 02/18/2012 8:44:33 PM PST by anglian
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To: oncebitten

“watching my slacker neighbors sit on their asses and collect welfare, disability, free health care, etc” (Hosea 7:1-2)
The thief comes inside. The Bandits raid outside. Now their exploits surround and encircle them.
Foreigners sap his strength, but he does not realize it. His hair is sprinkled with gray, but he does not notice.

The stalk has no head; it will produce no flour. Were it to yield grain, foreigners would swallow it up.


34 posted on 02/18/2012 8:53:15 PM PST by anglian
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To: ckilmer

In 1958 a list of 45 stategems was distributed by CPUSA from the main CP. It was read into the Congessional Record by a Politician from Florida, I think, in 1963. If you read it, all 45 have been accomplished either wholly or partially. Everything from acceptance of perversion, UN involvement, taking over one or both political parties, and education. Google it.


35 posted on 02/19/2012 2:32:38 AM PST by Safetgiver (I'd rather die under a free American sky than live under a Socialist regime.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Girls and women think they are broadcasting all sorts of sexual attraction cues, that initiate interaction with boys and men. But the vast majority of men have no idea, just the few, often of low character, who do. So girls and women think they have no choice but to associate with these men, as nobody else “pays them attention”.


Your whole post was very good, I keyed on this section though. In my experience while raising my sons is that many if not most children are horribly scarred by the divorces of their parents. And they are very leery if not close to being terrified of marriage. It’s not that they don’t want to be in a loving marriage and have a family, they are afraid of the consequences if it doesn’t ‘work out’ and they get a divorce from their spouse.

As one of them once told me, “Dad, from what I can see of my friend’s dad’s situation, divorce makes you a slave to your ex until the kids are grown up.”

All I could tell him is that if you decide to get married be very, VERY sure of what you are getting into.


36 posted on 02/19/2012 5:54:33 AM PST by The Working Man (The mantra for BO's reign...."No Child Left a Dime")
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