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British doctors endorse radical solutions to organ shortage
BioEdge ^ | 2/18/12 | Michael Cook

Posted on 02/19/2012 12:27:32 PM PST by wagglebee

Some of the most controversial methods of obtaining organs have been endorsed by the British Medical Association in a report released this week. “Building on Progress: what next for organ donation policy in the UK?” laments “the fact that… people are still dying unnecessarily because of a lack of organs”.

Among the measures it proposes are:

All of these measures have been debated extensively over the past few years.

The procedure which the media focused on in its coverage was “elective ventilation”. “Brain dead” patients who have suffered a massive stroke would be kept alive purely to enable organ retrieval. This led to a 50% increase in organ retrieval in 1988 at a British hospital, but it was declared unlawful in 1994.

Transplant units in Spain and the US already use the technique, said Nigel Heaton, professor of transplant surgery at King's College hospital, London. "People have qualms about it. The concern is that you are prolonging or introducing futile treatment that has no benefit for the patient. But I expect that views will gradually change.”

Elective ventilation was criticised by Professor Nadey Hakim, of Hammersmith Hospital, as "bizarre and unethical". "It's not ethical keeping someone alive," he said. "They're brain dead and you have to remember there's a family next door in tears. I find it bizarre that the BMA wants to push for something so unpopular. This is how we kill any desire for people to become donors."

Retrieving hearts from newborn babies is still an experimental procedure. Life support would be withdrawn from disabled children and their heart would be removed about 75 seconds after it stopped beating. Although the BMA report does not mention it, this clearly violates the "dead donor" rule – that donors have to be dead before vital organs can be removed.

The report acknowledges that donation after cardiac death is a hard sell to the public, especially if a heart which stops beating in one body begins to beat again in another. However, the BMA believes that it is ethically acceptable, even though:

“A careful explanation of the way in which death is diagnosed will be needed and an explanation that a heart that has stopped beating can be restarted after the person has died and used for transplantation. It might also be helpful to refer to fact that the first heart transplant, under Christian Barnard, was from a DCD donor.”


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: moralabsolutes; organharvesting; prolife
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Elective ventilation was criticised by Professor Nadey Hakim, of Hammersmith Hospital, as "bizarre and unethical". "It's not ethical keeping someone alive," he said. "They're brain dead and you have to remember there's a family next door in tears. I find it bizarre that the BMA wants to push for something so unpopular. This is how we kill any desire for people to become donors."

And the solution will be to make donation mandatory.

The "Brave New World" is here and it's horrifying.

1 posted on 02/19/2012 12:27:43 PM PST by wagglebee
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; narses; Salvation; 8mmMauser
Pro-Life Ping
2 posted on 02/19/2012 12:28:30 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Lesforlife; Sun
Ping
3 posted on 02/19/2012 12:29:27 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 185JHP; 230FMJ; AKA Elena; APatientMan; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


4 posted on 02/19/2012 12:30:47 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee; lilycicero; MaryLou1; glock rocks; JPG; Graewoulf; VinceASA; Monkey Face; RIghtwardHo; ..
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

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Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.


5 posted on 02/19/2012 12:31:53 PM PST by narses
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To: wagglebee
“Among the measures it proposes are:

•Elective ventilation: keeping patients alive solely so they can become organ donors,
•Retrieving hearts from newborn disabled babies,
•Using body parts from high-risk donors including the elderly, people with cancer, drug users and people with high-risk sexual behaviour.”

If this were the plot outline for a horror movie, the critics would be laughing at the absurdity.

6 posted on 02/19/2012 12:35:31 PM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: wagglebee

A Modest Proposal.


7 posted on 02/19/2012 12:35:47 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: wagglebee

OMG. How scary. And people snub their noses at me when I tell them NO WAY IN HELL would I sign my name on my driver’s license or put in my will that I want to be an organ donor.


8 posted on 02/19/2012 12:39:06 PM PST by peggybac
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To: wagglebee
Next thing they will be “suggesting” that organs be retrieved from living prisoners, starting with people on death row ... with the application of pressure and sufficient time, all convicted felons will be candidates for “ventilation!”
9 posted on 02/19/2012 12:40:48 PM PST by Ken522
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To: wagglebee

Dear God, wagglebee, I was afraid to read he article and I was right.


10 posted on 02/19/2012 12:41:42 PM PST by onyx (SUPPORT FREE REPUBLIC, DONATE MONTHLY. If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, let me know.)
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To: FReepers
The funds raised in these FReepathons go to pay our current quarter expenses. But we're also going to try to replace some of our older servers and failing equipment this year so we're going to add a little extra to our FReepathon goals. John is estimating ten to fifteen thousand to do this and I'd like to get it all in place and working before the election cycle is fully heated up, so we'll try to bring in a little extra now, if we can, and the rest next quarter.

Jim Robinson



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11 posted on 02/19/2012 12:42:21 PM PST by onyx (SUPPORT FREE REPUBLIC, DONATE MONTHLY. If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, let me know.)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
Using body parts from high-risk donors including the elderly, people with cancer, drug users and people with high-risk sexual behaviour.”

A few years ago, there was an organ harvesting scandal in New York/New Jersey region.

Funeral homes were harvesting organs and body parts for transplants.

Probably the most famous person who had parts harvested was Alistar Cook,who died of cancer.

12 posted on 02/19/2012 12:43:10 PM PST by mware (By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West)
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To: onyx
Retrieving hearts from newborn babies is still an experimental procedure. Life support would be withdrawn from disabled children and their heart would be removed about 75 seconds after it stopped beating.

This is INFANTICIDE!

And just wait until someone decides to start removing organs from adults with disabilities.

13 posted on 02/19/2012 12:43:22 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
But I expect that views will gradually change.”

The horrible evils are accelerating.

14 posted on 02/19/2012 12:43:59 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell)
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To: wagglebee
A careful explanation of the way in which death is diagnosed will be needed and an explanation that a heart that has stopped beating can be restarted after the person has died and used for transplantation.

That begs the question of why the heart isn't restarted while it is in its owner's chest, instead of removing it to restart it in someone else's chest.

I still fail to see the rationale behind organ transplantation. When a person is so ill that their organs are failing, perhaps it's time for them to say goodbye, instead of hoping and praying for a healthy person to die so they can get the organs? As immoral as it is merely to hope for another person to die, isn't it far worse to hasten another person's death in order to harvest their organs?

15 posted on 02/19/2012 12:46:47 PM PST by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: mware

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/life/human-biology/organ-donation7.htm


16 posted on 02/19/2012 12:48:32 PM PST by mware (By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West)
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To: little jeremiah

Protesting the policy will move you to the top of the list


17 posted on 02/19/2012 12:51:52 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Ken522

“Next thing they will be “suggesting” that organs be retrieved from living prisoners, starting with people on death row ... with the application of pressure and sufficient time, all convicted felons will be candidates for “ventilation!”

Wait until new organs can actually extend a person’s life beyond a normal lifespan. Larry Niven talked about this in some of his sci-fi, and not in a good way. From wiki:

“...the problem led to a repressive society almost unrecognizable by today’s standards. Since the average citizens wished to extend their lives, the world government sought to increase the supply by using condemned criminals to supply the organ banks. When this failed to meet the demand, citizens would vote for the death penalty for more and more trivial crimes. First violent crimes, then theft, tax evasion, false advertising, and even traffic violations became punishable by the organ banks.”

He was talking about “organ legging” back in the late 60’s.

Freegards


18 posted on 02/19/2012 12:54:54 PM PST by Ransomed
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To: wagglebee

Paging Dr. Mengele.


19 posted on 02/19/2012 12:55:22 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (religion + guns = liberty)
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To: wagglebee

These are the end times for Dewey Crowe.


20 posted on 02/19/2012 12:55:55 PM PST by gusty
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To: peggybac

My cousin just died from a brain tumor. She was only 38. 2 people have her kidneys and 1 her liver. She’s a better person than you are. My sister has had 2 kidney transplants. One from my mom one from a teenager who died in a car wreck.


21 posted on 02/19/2012 12:56:07 PM PST by strider44
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To: wagglebee
Larry Niven wrote a number of science fiction stories about a future in which prisoners were used for organ donation. In order to assure a sufficient supply of organs, the number of crimes was increased. Of course, this was only science fiction. Nothing like that could ever happen. Could it?
22 posted on 02/19/2012 12:57:20 PM PST by JoeFromSidney (New book: RESISTANCE TO TYRANNY. A primer on armed revolt. Available form Amazon.)
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To: Ransomed

“Wait until new organs can actually extend a person’s life beyond a normal lifespan. Larry Niven talked about this in some of his sci-fi, and not in a good way.”

I am certain the elites of this world know all about this.


23 posted on 02/19/2012 1:03:23 PM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: combat_boots

Kissinger... He’s been ancient for as long as I can remember, yet continue to reign supreme.


24 posted on 02/19/2012 1:08:41 PM PST by Borax Queen
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To: driftdiver

My method is to avoid ever going to a doctor or hospital, for starters.


25 posted on 02/19/2012 1:13:59 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell)
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To: combat_boots

A good question would be how long a person’s life can possibly be extended with the technology and technique we have today.

Niven speculated that everything eventually could be used, they could do full skin transplants, one would be constantly getting younger parts when the old ones wore out or became diseased. In his sci-fi, this retarded medical advances in other directions, as fresh healthy organs from “criminals” were so much cheaper than anything else. The only thing that stopped the organ bank pressure was when artificial/owner cloned organs caught up in price point to the criminal parts, if I recall.

Freegards


26 posted on 02/19/2012 1:14:31 PM PST by Ransomed
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To: wagglebee

GAH! That’s utterly disgusting! I don’t want to be a half-deady with my body being harvested for parts because I marked “organ donor” on my driver’s license.


27 posted on 02/19/2012 1:15:02 PM PST by madison10
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To: peggybac

You are not the only one. Not only have I refused to sign the back of my DL, my living will directs no organ donations(not even those ghouls from the Lions Club are to touch my eyes), AND I have on numerous occasions spoken vehemently to friends and family I will take EVERYTHING I was born with to my grave. I do NOT trust those vile, disgusting organ-harvesting ghouls from th organ banks. I think anyone that is an organ donor is at greater risk of being declared dead prematurely, especially if they were young, healthy with viable organs at the time of their death.
Call me a conspiracy theorist, I just don’t trust those ghouls one iota.


28 posted on 02/19/2012 1:15:34 PM PST by bigredkitty1 (March 5,2010. Rest in peace, sweet boy. I will miss you, Big Red.)
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To: wagglebee
The Monty Python crew saw this coming in their Meaning of Life.

If you've got a strong stomach here's the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aclS1pGHp8o

29 posted on 02/19/2012 1:15:42 PM PST by katana (Just my opinions)
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To: wagglebee
We keep you alive to serve the State...we will say when your dead to serve the State...your body your organs your labor you sole is owned by the State........The answer to the riddle What is "LEFT" ...in the end
30 posted on 02/19/2012 1:17:50 PM PST by tophat9000 (American is Barack Oaken)
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To: wagglebee

> •making donation after cardiac death a normal source for organs<

.
As long as donations are post-death and remain voluntary, but don’t expect it to continue that way.

Someday the elite will demand organ donations from the the not-so-elites.


31 posted on 02/19/2012 1:19:34 PM PST by 353FMG
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To: wagglebee

of course this is coming. you’d be a fool to think it’s not


32 posted on 02/19/2012 1:22:47 PM PST by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: wagglebee

End the prohibition on compensating individuals and their heirs for organs, and the shortage vanishes.


33 posted on 02/19/2012 1:24:01 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Author of BullionBible.com - Makes You a Precious Metal Expert, Guaranteed.)
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To: All

My I suggest a movie .....”Never Let Me Go”..

Some things are not as far away as they seem .....


34 posted on 02/19/2012 1:26:18 PM PST by Robe (Rome did not create a great empire by talking, they did it by killing all those who opposed them)
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To: wagglebee
Among the measures it proposes are:

[List of useless, outrageous and shameful ideas deleted...]


More interesting are the ideas it doesn't propose, such as encouraging or funding massive research into cloning organs and other body parts for transplant. Innovation requires risk-taking, and that's anathema to government-controlled medicine, which is all about maintaining the status quo while making useless token gestures to control costs as they spiral out of sight.
35 posted on 02/19/2012 1:33:27 PM PST by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: tophat9000

Even Boxer gave his body to The State in the end...


36 posted on 02/19/2012 1:33:44 PM PST by null and void (Day 1125 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
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To: JoeFromSidney

People are paid to be blood donors routinely and people have sold their organs for cash. No doubt it is crass. A traditional ethicist would argue that such a donation is not voluntary but coerced by the economic need of the donor. However consider the motivation of an unpaid donor. Does the gift really satisfy the donors need to be recognized as doing good or some other self gratifying emotion? Does a voluntary donor have a “psychological need”? Why should behavior motivated by economic gain be excluded but not other forms of self gratification? Finally the prisoner as a potential donor is an interesting dilemma. Truly an organ donation for freedom is easily seen as coercion. Yet if it is not mandatory,original sentences are not affected (although they ultimately might be) and non donors are not punished, why does a prisoner not have the right to make a decision that the prisoner views as being in his or her best interests? It is very difficult to parse the motivation for human behavior.


37 posted on 02/19/2012 1:42:03 PM PST by allendale
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To: wagglebee
Among the measures it proposes are:

What??? No utilizing organs from condemned criminals?

38 posted on 02/19/2012 1:46:16 PM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: wagglebee

It’s ain’t about anything but the $$$$s.


39 posted on 02/19/2012 2:14:13 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the fascists.)
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To: JoeFromSidney

This is touched in the “ARM” stories with a cop named Gil. Those who kidnapped and killed people for organs were called “organleggers”.
What’s ironic though is that in Niven’s stories, running multiple red lights got you executed because you deliberately put others at risk. We have a society reluctant to kill murderers - but not innocent but inconvenient people.


40 posted on 02/19/2012 2:54:20 PM PST by tbw2
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To: katana

The pilot for the “Max Headroom” show had a similar theme in it. You could go buy body parts or whole bodies, no questions asked.


41 posted on 02/19/2012 2:59:25 PM PST by Disambiguator
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To: wagglebee

Dr. Walter E. Williams said it best while subbing for El Rushbo one day. The organ shortage will be solved when a person or their designated executors are allowed to SELL THEIR OWN organs.

The idea that people are supposed to DONATE organs for free, while the surgeon makes $50K a pop and more, never made sense to me.


42 posted on 02/19/2012 3:03:19 PM PST by Tucker39 ( Psa 68:19Blessed be the Lord, who daily loadeth us with benefits; even the God of our salvation.KJV)
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To: wagglebee
And you [rhetorical] thought "we're here for your liver" was just a comedy sketch.
43 posted on 02/19/2012 3:08:56 PM PST by NonValueAdded (Limbaugh: Tim Tebow miracle: "He had atheists praying to God that he would lose.")
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To: strider44
Then there's the famous case of Dem Governor Bob Casey of Pennsylvania. In 1993 Casey was diagnosed as needing both a heart and a liver transplant. At the time, average wait was 67 days for a new liver and 198 days for a new heart. Casey, needing both, was put into his own queue for combined heart/liver (where conveniently he was at the front of the list) and got his transplants within 10 hours of being diagnosed.

The donor, Mr William Lucas, had been conveniently bludgeoned to death around the same time they discovered Casey needed a transplant.

The point is, I really don't want to be in critical condition in some hospital at the same time that some VIP, who I'm a tissue match for, needs an organ.

44 posted on 02/19/2012 3:17:45 PM PST by PapaBear3625 (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell)
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To: wagglebee

45 posted on 02/19/2012 3:35:18 PM PST by Sine_Pari
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To: wagglebee

The best response to “forced” organ donation is that there is a long list of diseases and conditions that make organs unacceptable for donation. And if someone is suspected of having such a disease or condition, there are tests to determine if they have it.

If the test is positive, no “what passes for ethical these days” surgeon will touch it.

But in many, if not all such tests, harmless “simulants” also exist that can give them a false positive.

So if someone carries a card indicating that they have one of the proscribed diseases or conditions, and they consume the proper simulant, this would give them an extra measure of protection against organ snatching.


46 posted on 02/19/2012 3:47:35 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: wagglebee
•Using body parts from high-risk donors including the elderly, people with cancer, drug users and people with high-risk sexual behaviour.

It's all horrific, but I was especially drawn to the high-risk sexual behavior classification. Prostitutes and gays. But what about the HIV status? What good does it do you to get a new liver from a whore just to find out she/he's got HIV??

I suppose they say they'd test for that first.

47 posted on 02/19/2012 3:58:28 PM PST by prairiebreeze (Who are you and what have you done with Ann Coulter?!)
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To: bigredkitty1

I’m with you 100%. I have it stated in my will that if I’m on life support, it is to be disconnected after 2 years and not a minute before. Don’t trust anyone in the harvest field. “Bio” and “Ethic” in a sentence makes me run the other way.


48 posted on 02/19/2012 4:33:50 PM PST by peggybac
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To: peggybac

I have questioned the numbers of comatose patients who revived after being declared brain dead, but were not. The doctors needed the organ and f*** the patient with an injury. One guy was to have eyes harvested within several minutes. He revived. What would the doctors have done had he revived after they took his eyes? Yeah, you know, they would have killed him and went for daquiris after work.


49 posted on 02/19/2012 5:10:21 PM PST by healy61
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To: wagglebee

I have met those who used to work on the “retrieval” side of organ donation. Things like this go on now. I will not sign an organ donor card for that reason.


50 posted on 02/19/2012 5:29:43 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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